Minorities being wrongly perceived as lesser physicians?

[swman]

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Not trying to start trouble with this thread, but something that happened a minute ago left a bad taste in my mouth...

So I'm sitting at work today (an outpatient phlebotomy lab), and one of my coworkers mentions to a patient that I'm going to school to be a doctor. The old woman looks over at me and then the first thing out of her mouth was about how her grandson applied to the UW 3 years in a row and didn't get in... "because he has blond hair and blue eyes". She then went on to talk about how he had a 4.0 and a personality that would knock you dead. This irritated me because the reason she said this in front of me is that I am clearly a minority, ALTHOUGH I AM NOT A URM. I happen to be half middle eastern, and in fact applied as a caucasian male, which means I had to go through the same application process (twice, by the way) as every other white male in Washington State.

So this got me to thinking... Am I going to have to spend my life as a physician with certain patients resenting me because I am a minority, and assume that I got into medical school automatically because of my skin color while their perfect aryan grandson, for example, couldn't get in???? Any thoughts?

 

[NoSoupforYou13]

Um, you better get used to patients saying all types of things that may offend you. Not because of how you look/talk, but rather because that's what people do. Some people are just not very nice.

If you are serious about medicine, you might want to grow an extra layer of skin and not take everything so personally.

 

[MN81]

People suck.

Don't worry about what Grandma says. If she was your grandma, and you were in her grandson's position, she would be saying the same thing.

Of course grandma thinks that her grandchild has a perfect personality and a 4.0

For all we know, the kid flunked out of community college, came back and earned a C average, got a 14 on the mmmCAT, and has long conversations with himself (and no one else).

Again, people suck, are ignorant, stupid, and biased toward their own family and culture.

I am sorry that you had to hear that, but I really would not let Grandma ruin your excitement about being a competent and compassionate doc.

 

[MDhopeful023]

You will encounter patients who will love you and who will not... I think the color of your skin will be secondary to the care you give them... but then again being a minority myself I have encountered people thinking I've made it this far due to my skin color... not for my hard work...

so don't fret... some people will be ignorant...

 

[Moto]

There will always be people who need an irrational reason to explain why things that didn't go their way.

Chances are, the same people don't exactly perceive other things in society the same way that more informed people do.

 

[tkdusb]

I'm more concerned about my fellow doctors perceiving me as being less than them because of the color of my skin. It happens unfortunately.

 

[Centinel]

Not trying to start trouble with this thread, but something that happened a minute ago left a bad taste in my mouth...

So I'm sitting at work today (an outpatient phlebotomy lab), and one of my coworkers mentions to a patient that I'm going to school to be a doctor. The old woman looks over at me and then the first thing out of her mouth was about how her grandson applied to the UW 3 years in a row and didn't get in... "because he has blond hair and blue eyes". She then went on to talk about how he had a 4.0 and a personality that would knock you dead. This irritated me because the reason she said this in front of me is that I am clearly a minority, ALTHOUGH I AM NOT A URM. I happen to be half middle eastern, and in fact applied as a caucasian male, which means I had to go through the same application process (twice, by the way) as every other white male in Washington State.

So this got me to thinking... Am I going to have to spend my life as a physician with certain patients resenting me because I am a minority, and assume that I got into medical school automatically because of my skin color while their perfect aryan grandson, for example, couldn't get in???? Any thoughts?

It is not fair and it is not right; that is true. But you have to consider that most of your patients who will express bigotry are not as well educated as you. It's doubtful that they mean harm, but instead they are just not well versed in polite discourse.

In my opinion, you can really use this as a tool if you are a person of extraordinary willpower (I'm not saying that I could do this, but I think it would work): A lot of people see physicians as elitist or 'existing on a higher plane'. You, on the other hand, can use other people's prejudices in your favor. Your patients may see you as someone who is not just 'preaching from on high' but who is actually straight-talking them from a level nearer to their own.

Clearly bigotry is never the optimal situation, but I guess I feel that you can take certain steps to turn this into a way of actually getting closer, medically speaking, to your patients by being more 'on their level'.

That being said, I'm a white male, so this is purely hypothetical speech coming from someone who has frankly never experienced the burn of pure, thoughtless, kneejerk discrimination.

 

[BerkeleyMD]

Not trying to start trouble with this thread, but something that happened a minute ago left a bad taste in my mouth...

So I'm sitting at work today (an outpatient phlebotomy lab), and one of my coworkers mentions to a patient that I'm going to school to be a doctor. The old woman looks over at me and then the first thing out of her mouth was about how her grandson applied to the UW 3 years in a row and didn't get in... "because he has blond hair and blue eyes". She then went on to talk about how he had a 4.0 and a personality that would knock you dead. This irritated me because the reason she said this in front of me is that I am clearly a minority, ALTHOUGH I AM NOT A URM. I happen to be half middle eastern, and in fact applied as a caucasian male, which means I had to go through the same application process (twice, by the way) as every other white male in Washington State.

So this got me to thinking... Am I going to have to spend my life as a physician with certain patients resenting me because I am a minority, and assume that I got into medical school automatically because of my skin color while their perfect aryan grandson, for example, couldn't get in???? Any thoughts?

Getting into med school is tough and people will be bitter. Don't let it get to you. So long as you are not an FMG, patients will hold you with the highest regard. Most doctors here in Cali are FMG's and they get tons of respect, its all about personality. Don't let some old lady get under your skin...

The real question is, did you draw her blood ?? I bet it was a whole lot of "oops, didn't mean to stick you that hard.. lemme try a larger needle" 😀

 

[notdeadyet]

I'm sure you've run into people that think minorities are lesser _anythings_. I wouldn't take it too personally. Thinking minorities are just plain lesser is a cottage industry of the ignorant.

 

[RxnMan]

Not trying to start trouble with this thread, but something that happened a minute ago left a bad taste in my mouth...

So I'm sitting at work today (an outpatient phlebotomy lab), and one of my coworkers mentions to a patient that I'm going to school to be a doctor. The old woman looks over at me and then the first thing out of her mouth was about how her grandson applied to the UW 3 years in a row and didn't get in... "because he has blond hair and blue eyes". She then went on to talk about how he had a 4.0 and a personality that would knock you dead. This irritated me because the reason she said this in front of me is that I am clearly a minority, ALTHOUGH I AM NOT A URM. I happen to be half middle eastern, and in fact applied as a caucasian male, which means I had to go through the same application process (twice, by the way) as every other white male in Washington State.

So this got me to thinking... Am I going to have to spend my life as a physician with certain patients resenting me because I am a minority, and assume that I got into medical school automatically because of my skin color while their perfect aryan grandson, for example, couldn't get in???? Any thoughts?

Everybody's got a story about someone who got in with low stats and had URM status (though, mysteriously, nobody cares to say what else made said person stand out...) Think about where the story came from. The lady is obviously biased towards her nephew, which, frankly, is how it should be. She was rude about it, but that's her problem.

Which reminds me of a story.

I was volunteering in the ER one day (with "Volunteer" embroidered prominently on my scrubs), picking up soiled linens, when I see this old, asian lady getting a physical from a female doctor. The asian lady was obviously an immigrant (didn't speak much English) and she kept saying "I want doctor. I want doctor." The doc told the patient "I AM a doctor." Asian lady said "No. I want doctor," and pointed to me.

You don't have to be a minority to be looked down on (women make up more of the US than men). Heck, you still have to deal with it when you're a doc. You just have to roll with it.

 

[LucidSplash]

I'm sure you will encounter this sort of thing, but I don't think it will be the norm. In addition, and I don't know if this is true, but I tend to find a lot more of this kind of thought when considering people as "students." When people are presented with an actual doctor, they're first thought, if they are a minority, isn't that they got into medical school, but that they are a doctor. Does that make sense? I don't know if I'm presenting it clearly.

But anywho, I don't think this will be the norm. I had one doctor, who I went to for a physical, ask me why I wanted to be a doctor. I had to go to him because it was for USUHS and they dictate the doctor you see. Before I said anything, he started saying things like "is it for the money? You look like you already live a nice life." Now, I'm blonde with fair skin and green eyes and I was dressed nicely because I went in the middle of my work day. Do I think he was judging me a little based on my appearance? Sure. I definitely got a "Daddy's money is already taking care of you" vibe from the tone and content of his comments. Am I really poor white trash and one of the very first people on my mother's side to go to college and actually hold a job? Yes. He was an URM, but I'm not going to judge all URM doctors behavior by his towards me. So I think you'll always see some classism/racism no matter who you are or where you are, but hopefully it won't be an every day occurrence. As long as you actually ARE a good doctor who does whats best for his/her patients, most people will just respect you for being a good doctor.

 

[2Xtrouble2X]

Not trying to start trouble with this thread, but something that happened a minute ago left a bad taste in my mouth...

So I'm sitting at work today (an outpatient phlebotomy lab), and one of my coworkers mentions to a patient that I'm going to school to be a doctor. The old woman looks over at me and then the first thing out of her mouth was about how her grandson applied to the UW 3 years in a row and didn't get in... "because he has blond hair and blue eyes". She then went on to talk about how he had a 4.0 and a personality that would knock you dead. This irritated me because the reason she said this in front of me is that I am clearly a minority, ALTHOUGH I AM NOT A URM. I happen to be half middle eastern, and in fact applied as a caucasian male, which means I had to go through the same application process (twice, by the way) as every other white male in Washington State.

So this got me to thinking... Am I going to have to spend my life as a physician with certain patients resenting me because I am a minority, and assume that I got into medical school automatically because of my skin color while their perfect aryan grandson, for example, couldn't get in???? Any thoughts?

I am full Middle Eastern myself and i hate it when people mistaken me for hispanic...they try so hard to sympathize with me and i can notice it b/c of my skin...someday i'll tell them im middle eastern--i say someday!! haha oh well, you know thats life...people are always going to stereotype man...get used to it as a "future doc"

 

[Holistic]

Here is my two cents, if your a minorty and you got into medical school, you got in, if your white and got into medical school you got in, regardless of your undergraduate numbers (which never tell the whole story) everyone in medical school must pass the same courses and take the same board exams. Regardless of what your MCAT score was or what your undergraduate GPA was you still must pass all of these tests. If you pass everything your a doctor plain and simple, when I am 40 years old I dont think my patients or colleagues will be asking my MCAT score and GPA then using it as a measure of my abilities. Just worry about getting in and then passing your boards, the real judge of our abilities will be our patients and a good doctor is a good doctor, once you reach that status numbers are irrelavent.

 

[Moto]

The other day, I was talking to my Bio professor about starting med school, interviews, etc.

Another student interjected and commented on how grueling the admissions process for medschool is, but that it must have been nice because of the advantage that I got because I was (his term) "foreign".

When I calmly explained to him that in fact, being a foreigner often makes it more difficult, he then said: "well you're a woman, didn't that help you out?"

Point being, it didn't matter what my grades/MCAT/EC were to him, only that, if I got in, then it must have been because of other reasons.

 

[Thundrstorm]

Um, you better get used to patients saying all types of things that may offend you. Not because of how you look/talk, but rather because that's what people do. Some people are just not very nice.

If you are serious about medicine, you might want to grow an extra layer of skin and not take everything so personally.

No one has to "get used to" prejudice. The OP doesn't seem to have particularly thin skin to me; he has every right to be concerned about and offended by what was said to him. You don't have to get used to it just because "people will always be that way" or "there's no use trying to change people's minds" or any of the other cop-outs we throw around when we're too scared or indifferent to speak up.

The best way to confront ignorance is to educate, not to ignore.

 

[RxnMan]

The other day, I was talking to my Bio professor about starting med school, interviews, etc.

Another student interjected and commented on how grueling the admissions process for medschool is, but that it must have been nice because of the advantage that I got because I was (his term) "foreign".

When I calmly explained to him that in fact, being a foreigner often makes it more difficult, he then said: "well you're a woman, didn't that help you out?"

Point being, it didn't matter what my grades/MCAT/EC were to him, only that, if I got in, then it must have been because of other reasons.

The first three things that anyone notices about you are:

1) age
2) race
3) gender

And maybe GPA and MCAT if you had them branded into your forehead.

 

[LucidSplash]

The first three things that anyone notices about you are:

1) age
2) race
3) gender

And maybe GPA and MCAT if you had them branded into your forehead.

Hmm, I got them tattooed on my breasts (GPA on the left and MCAT on the right). Probably not the best place for them to get noticed in public.

 

[RxnMan]

Hmm, I got them tattooed on my breasts (GPA on the left and MCAT on the right). Probably not the best place for them to get noticed in public.

You know, that's not a bad idea. Maybe you could mix it up with a little dance during your interview (talk to gdbaby).

Sadly, I don't have any, so I have to work with what I got.

 

[NoSoupforYou13]

No one has to "get used to" prejudice. The OP doesn't seem to have particularly thin skin to me; he has every right to be concerned about and offended by what was said to him. You don't have to get used to it just because "people will always be that way" or "there's no use trying to change people's minds" or any of the other cop-outs we throw around when we're too scared or indifferent to speak up.

The best way to confront ignorance is to educate, not to ignore.

Point taken. However, if you start doubting yourself everytime someone says something un-PC, then you are going to have a pretty stressful life.

 

[CANES2006]

I'm more concerned about my fellow doctors perceiving me as being less than them because of the color of my skin. It happens unfortunately.

Ain't that the truth. 😡 Oh well, you can't win them all.

 

[chef_NU]

You know, that's not a bad idea. Maybe you could mix it up with a little dance during your interview (talk to gdbaby).

Sadly, I don't have any, so I have to work with what I got.

No man-boobs? Why not get pec implants and tattoo them there?

 

[LizzyM]

The old woman looks over at me and then the first thing out of her mouth was about how her grandson applied to the UW 3 years in a row and didn't get in... "because he has blond hair and blue eyes". She then went on to talk about how he had a 4.0 and a personality that would knock you dead.

Why do you think that this is about you? Some people just like to talk about themselves and, as an extension, about their grandchildren. Say "doctor" and this woman immediately says, "injustice" because her precious grandson with the blue eyes and blond hair was discriminated against because he is a white male. Get over yourself. It may have nothing to do with you -- it is all about her. She will tell that story for a million years. She would have said it if you had blond hair & blue eyes.

Today the radio & newspapers in Chicago were all over a story about how hard it is to get into U Illinois for undergrad. Complete with blond girl on the front page of the Sun-Times.

 

[smidge]

I'm more concerned about my fellow doctors perceiving me as being less than them because of the color of my skin. It happens unfortunately.

I'm sure in some cases (hopefully not too many) it does. One way to beat it: kick much booty as a top-notch physician. Being an African-American female myself, bigotry just makes me want to work that much harder...adds a bit of fuel to the fire.

Or you could just stick out your tongue and call them "silly poopy-heads". Works wonders.

 

[RxnMan]

No man-boobs? Why not get pec implants and tattoo them there?

I don't have the body fat to grow the former, and no $$$ to insert the latter.

As a side note, I the change-over from a serious, socially progressive discussion to a immature humor gag.

 

[Thundrstorm]

I'm sure in some cases (hopefully not too many) it does. One way to beat it: kick much booty as a top-notch physician. Being an African-American female myself, bigotry just makes me want to work that much harder...adds a bit of fuel to the fire.

Or you could just stick out your tongue and call them "silly poopy-heads". Works wonders.

"poopy heads"


Brown People Welcome Wagon Steering Committee: no poopy heads allowed

 

[LucidSplash]

Get over yourself. It may have nothing to do with you -- it is all about her. She will tell that story for a million years. She would have said it if you had blond hair & blue eyes.

Lizzy, I always appreciate your contributions here as an adcom member but I think you're being a bit harsh on the OP. You're right, it may not have had anything to do with him, or maybe it was unconscious onthe part of the woman, or maybe it was conscious. I don't think the OP overstated the situation and they may have taken it a bit too much to heart but the chances aren't terrible that this woman specifically stating that her grandson couldn't get in "because of his blonde hair and blue eyes" was a sore spot but also related in this case because of the appearance of the OP. I think "get over yourself" is a bit harsh, though I respect where you're coming from.

 

[NonTradMed]

Not trying to start trouble with this thread, but something that happened a minute ago left a bad taste in my mouth...

So I'm sitting at work today (an outpatient phlebotomy lab), and one of my coworkers mentions to a patient that I'm going to school to be a doctor. The old woman looks over at me and then the first thing out of her mouth was about how her grandson applied to the UW 3 years in a row and didn't get in... "because he has blond hair and blue eyes". She then went on to talk about how he had a 4.0 and a personality that would knock you dead. This irritated me because the reason she said this in front of me is that I am clearly a minority, ALTHOUGH I AM NOT A URM. I happen to be half middle eastern, and in fact applied as a caucasian male, which means I had to go through the same application process (twice, by the way) as every other white male in Washington State.

So this got me to thinking... Am I going to have to spend my life as a physician with certain patients resenting me because I am a minority, and assume that I got into medical school automatically because of my skin color while their perfect aryan grandson, for example, couldn't get in???? Any thoughts?

Sounds to me like the women is bitter, and very rude. Even if you were URM, she shouldn't just assume that you got in because you were URM, or that you didn't have the credentials to get in, or even that her grandson would have gotten in if he had been URM.

My mom said something similar. When I was waiting for my instate med school to give me an answer and they were kinda taking their time, my mom had heard from doctor friends at the med school that URMs were let in with lower scores, she was very upset and believed that my application was delayed because the school had to 'take care of other groups'.

The tables were turned when I had met up with some Utah premeds during interviews who made that assumption about me. I am female and Chinese, so they suggested (very politely) that I probably would have less problem getting into med school---at least in Utah---because of my race and gender.

Now, perhaps that's true in Utah, but that's not true for the rest of the country (you'd think living in a state that borders California...). Anyway, I just replied that according to AAMC, asians, on average, require a 31/3.6 to get in. Last time I checked, most people had to have similar stats.

Since you were working, it probably wasn't a good time to correct the lady on her errornous assumption that you got in with subpar stats because you were "URM", but I think, under a nonwork environment, if someone was to say something like this, correcting them isn't a bad thing. Ignorance should not go unchecked if possible.

 

[uvce]

My dad's uncle - came to the US in the early 60's after med school in India and FRCS from Canada, orthopedic surgeon - had this story. A teenage kid was acting obnoxious while being treated because he was a "foreigner", but shut up promptly when told that my dad's uncle had been in the US much before the kid was born!

 

[swifty100850]

there's no way her grandson is getting rejected because he's white. that's ridiculous. he probably has a terrible MCAT scores or something.

 

[tkdusb]

there's no way her grandson is getting rejected because he's white. that's ridiculous. he probably has a terrible MCAT scores or something.

Or his personality is just like that of his grandmother's.

 

[LizzyM]

there's no way her grandson is getting rejected because he's white. that's ridiculous. he probably has a terrible MCAT scores or something.

Maybe something like his grandma's way with words.

 

[kathyt009]

Not trying to start trouble with this thread, but something that happened a minute ago left a bad taste in my mouth...

So I'm sitting at work today (an outpatient phlebotomy lab), and one of my coworkers mentions to a patient that I'm going to school to be a doctor. The old woman looks over at me and then the first thing out of her mouth was about how her grandson applied to the UW 3 years in a row and didn't get in... "because he has blond hair and blue eyes". She then went on to talk about how he had a 4.0 and a personality that would knock you dead. This irritated me because the reason she said this in front of me is that I am clearly a minority, ALTHOUGH I AM NOT A URM. I happen to be half middle eastern, and in fact applied as a caucasian male, which means I had to go through the same application process (twice, by the way) as every other white male in Washington State.

So this got me to thinking... Am I going to have to spend my life as a physician with certain patients resenting me because I am a minority, and assume that I got into medical school automatically because of my skin color while their perfect aryan grandson, for example, couldn't get in???? Any thoughts?

I've actually had a patient tell me he prefers to see minority and/or foreign doctors because he's had better experiences with them. Sometimes when I have to deal with ignorant people that make blanket assumptions...I just think, there will be other patients that appreciate the fact that I am a minority...even if not an URM.

 

[riceman04]

Not trying to start trouble with this thread, but something that happened a minute ago left a bad taste in my mouth...

So I'm sitting at work today (an outpatient phlebotomy lab), and one of my coworkers mentions to a patient that I'm going to school to be a doctor. The old woman looks over at me and then the first thing out of her mouth was about how her grandson applied to the UW 3 years in a row and didn't get in... "because he has blond hair and blue eyes". She then went on to talk about how he had a 4.0 and a personality that would knock you dead. This irritated me because the reason she said this in front of me is that I am clearly a minority, ALTHOUGH I AM NOT A URM. I happen to be half middle eastern, and in fact applied as a caucasian male, which means I had to go through the same application process (twice, by the way) as every other white male in Washington State.

So this got me to thinking... Am I going to have to spend my life as a physician with certain patients resenting me because I am a minority, and assume that I got into medical school automatically because of my skin color while their perfect aryan grandson, for example, couldn't get in???? Any thoughts?

in short...yes to an extent.

 

[xspiritmental]

Sounds like an early episode of ER...Dr Benton, the African-American senior resident is constantly riding his interns, including the intern played by Omar Epps. Epps bursts out -- "must I really do twice as well as everyone else just because I checked the box that said AA on my med school apps?" to which Benton nods. Epps replies, "then why don't you tell minorities to stop checking the box so they don't have to bother?" Narrow-mindedness, ignorance, and prejudice is a fact of life, but those things shouldn't dictate how we disclose and define our identities. The problem isn't as much with the "self" as it is with the "other"...of course, this doesn't always apply and there are many other issues to confront as you wade in these murky waters.

 

[eastsidaz]

This case, of course, sheds light on the strongest argument against considering race in admissions; namely, that it takes away from talented, qualified individuals who happen to be minorities. There exist in the applicant pool persons of color who are extraordinarily gifted and could've gotten in without their URM status (and in your case, aren't even URMs and didn't apply as a URM) but who will be looked upon, justly or unjustly, as inferior because of the boost given to other applicants. SCOTUS Justice Clarence Thomas has written about his own experiences in this regard. Imagine being a (black) male from Yale who got a 4.0 and a 43 MCAT whose supposedly enlightened white medical school classmates look at him with the understanding that he's there, in part, because of his skin color--since some of the other black students at the medical school may well be.

Obviously there's a strong case to be made in the opposite direction, but I thought this elucidated an interesting point.

 

[swman]

This case, of course, sheds light on the strongest argument against considering race in admissions; namely, that it takes away from talented, qualified individuals who happen to be minorities. There exist in the applicant pool persons of color who are extraordinarily gifted and could've gotten in without their URM status (and in your case, aren't even URMs and didn't apply as a URM) but who will be looked upon, justly or unjustly, as inferior because of the boost given to other applicants. SCOTUS Justice Clarence Thomas has written about his own experiences in this regard. Imagine being a (black) male from Yale who got a 4.0 and a 43 MCAT whose supposedly enlightened white medical school classmates look at him with the understanding that he's there, in part, because of his skin color--since some of the other black students at the medical school may well be.

Obviously there's a strong case to be made in the opposite direction, but I thought this elucidated an interesting point.

As a not so eloquent pre-med, I have to say that you, eastsidaz, put my thoughts and feelings into words better than I could have ever possibly done. I guess this is the point I was trying to bring up with my original post. I apologize to the few people out there who thought I was fishing for sympathy, whining, or truly hurt by what this woman said.

 

[riceman04]

Why do you think that this is about you? Some people just like to talk about themselves and, as an extension, about their grandchildren. Say "doctor" and this woman immediately says, "injustice" because her precious grandson with the blue eyes and blond hair was discriminated against because he is a white male. Get over yourself. It may have nothing to do with you -- it is all about her. She will tell that story for a million years. She would have said it if you had blond hair & blue eyes.

Today the radio & newspapers in Chicago were all over a story about how hard it is to get into U Illinois for undergrad. Complete with blond girl on the front page of the Sun-Times.

I can see where the OP is coming from. Many people do unconsciously make that statement simply for the sake of convenience. Whether or not that lady's statement carries any real meaning towards the OP's ability to become a great physician, it represents what has been generally accepted as being true among the lay population.

 

[Newton Bohr MD]

Not trying to start trouble with this thread, but something that happened a minute ago left a bad taste in my mouth...

So I'm sitting at work today (an outpatient phlebotomy lab), and one of my coworkers mentions to a patient that I'm going to school to be a doctor. The old woman looks over at me and then the first thing out of her mouth was about how her grandson applied to the UW 3 years in a row and didn't get in... "because he has blond hair and blue eyes". She then went on to talk about how he had a 4.0 and a personality that would knock you dead. This irritated me because the reason she said this in front of me is that I am clearly a minority, ALTHOUGH I AM NOT A URM. I happen to be half middle eastern, and in fact applied as a caucasian male, which means I had to go through the same application process (twice, by the way) as every other white male in Washington State.

So this got me to thinking... Am I going to have to spend my life as a physician with certain patients resenting me because I am a minority, and assume that I got into medical school automatically because of my skin color while their perfect aryan grandson, for example, couldn't get in???? Any thoughts?

maybe but, as a URM I can honestly say I really don’t care. If people are going to make assumptions about me that is THEIR loss not mine…
That’s how good I will be 😉

 

[Newton Bohr MD]

btw did anyone catch this yesterday??
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=1757271

 

[Shredder]

Not trying to start trouble with this thread, but something that happened a minute ago left a bad taste in my mouth...

So I'm sitting at work today (an outpatient phlebotomy lab), and one of my coworkers mentions to a patient that I'm going to school to be a doctor. The old woman looks over at me and then the first thing out of her mouth was about how her grandson applied to the UW 3 years in a row and didn't get in... "because he has blond hair and blue eyes". She then went on to talk about how he had a 4.0 and a personality that would knock you dead. This irritated me because the reason she said this in front of me is that I am clearly a minority, ALTHOUGH I AM NOT A URM. I happen to be half middle eastern, and in fact applied as a caucasian male, which means I had to go through the same application process (twice, by the way) as every other white male in Washington State.

So this got me to thinking... Am I going to have to spend my life as a physician with certain patients resenting me because I am a minority, and assume that I got into medical school automatically because of my skin color while their perfect aryan grandson, for example, couldn't get in???? Any thoughts?

mideasterners dont count as urms i believe. urm is an arbitrary distinction reserved for certain groups decided by the powers that be. for reasons that are shrouded in mystery. anyway this incident is why urms should fight aa/double standards, bc this incident is the obvious result. but most dont. the promise of a huge leg up is too seductive compared to some hostility and stigma encountered along the way, or even throughout life

east siders i challenge you to furnish a black with 4.0/43. im not saying it cant be done but you wont find it and therefore shouldnt cite it as an example. everyone needs to read about patrick chavis.

 

[anon-y-mouse]

read about patrick chavis.

Note: I personally don't care about AA/URM/race/whatever, I really believe that the barrage of licensing exams and tests will even everyone out in the end, no matter what color.

However, since you mentioned this patrick chavis character who I'd never heard of:

http://aad.english.ucsb.edu/docs/dmartin.html

 

[Shredder]

the barrage of licensing exams and tests will even everyone out in the end, no matter what color.

However, since you mentioned this patrick chavis character who I'd never heard of:

http://aad.english.ucsb.edu/docs/dmartin.html

thats under the premise that at some point aa stops and all is well, but ive read reports of aa extending all the way into high level bureaucrats such as colin powell (dunno about condi), so i have to wonder if everything is ever evened out

as for the slanted article from the ny times, heres a counter story which ive more commonly seen
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/michellemalkin/2002/08/07/164026.html
ny times kindly left out the gruesome details

 

[AcousticDoc]

When people are picking out a family physician, do they usually assume that doctors with asian last names will not know how to communicate in english?

 

[anon-y-mouse]

thats under the premise that at some point aa stops and all is well, but ive read reports of aa extending all the way into high level bureaucrats such as colin powell (dunno about condi), so i have to wonder if everything is ever evened out

as for the slanted article from the ny times, heres a counter story which ive more commonly seen
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/michellemalkin/2002/08/07/164026.html
ny times kindly left out the gruesome details

well (1) administrative bureaucracy is hardly relevant to the bread & butter practice of medicine - i.e. treating people. if AA helps propel one to a VP post at Aetna, it's irrelevant to whether that person becomes a good doctor.

and as i see it, that guy was mainly horrible at post-op management of lipo. so much can go wrong in lipo anyway (too much fluid removed, etc.) and similar stories have made it to headlines. if he basically "tacked on" lipo to his practice, this is obviously to be expected. it's as if a radiologist decided to buy a lipo machine and start offering the services. yes, ob/gyn does have surgical components, but a general surgeon offering lipo would have much more success. he was still a horrible doctor, though!!

(2) you can't generalize based on one horrible doctor. there are *proportionately* more quacks among the non-AA admits than there are among AA folks.

this one isolated incident shouldn't make your blood boil. you'd be paranoid if you thought that many doctors slip past the series of examinations/tests/etc. i would save your beefs for other professions. the fact that this guy was in the news makes him special, there's nothing endemic going on. and besides, every black student at HMS, regardless of stats, is going to wonder whether s/he belongs there -- if not, there are a million other people who would do that wondering. spotlight = increased pressure on "URMs" to do well, to prove themselves. after all, it's human nature to want to excel. no one wants to feel like a charlatan.

if ever a URM thought to himself, "yes, i got into med school, maybe i should feel damn lucky that i'm a minority!", that feeling would fade pretty quickly. our chosen profession is based on so many egalitarian principles. getting into med school is like getting to the starting line. perhaps some people have a leg up to the starting line, but that pales, because the race + the finishing line = brutal, unforgiving, and colorblind.

 

[LabMonster]

The best way to confront ignorance is to educate, not to ignore.

Agreed - still, don't take ANYTHING personally.

 

[MN81]

When people are picking out a family physician, do they usually assume that doctors with asian last names will not know how to communicate in english?

That is the not what I think, but maybe somebody in Po-Dunk, Arkansas would.

This may be way too generalized, but I feel like in most metro areas of the US people have 'good' stereotypes of Asians.

Hard working and smart among them. I will take those stereotypes over what most Americans think about other Minorities. You can get a good feeling of what people think about other minorities (namely, those of Hispanic origin) by looking at the polls for Immigration Law Reform today.

 

[-Goose-]

Not trying to start trouble with this thread

right....

 

[LuisitoMD]

Its true, people are stupid and say hurtful things just to get one up on you...

I haven't had the racial mess started, but I had my nieces bf's mom tell me that I shouldn't bother applying, that my chances were nil because of my age (30)... this all while her son was applying and according to her, getting many secondaries... she thought he was perfect... I told her that most schools send secondaries to EVERYONE... but I had the last laugh...I'm in and he's not

 

[infiniti]

Shredder, I challenge you to find any student of any race with 4.0 and 43 MCAT. If you are willing to go down 2 points on the MCAT, I will supply you with at least three URMS (I almost forgot, make that four) 🙂


More importantly, I think everyone,URM's or not will face some sort of discrimination at some point in their medical career. Also, medicine is a profession where your work will speak for itself. If u are good at what you do. People will line up to see you.

 

[Psychoanalyzed]

I don't wanna incense anyone either but even the "minorities" insult other "minorities". My mum is a pharmacist and at work, some black lady walks up to her and demands to see an "american" claiming that my mom came from africa to take away all the good jobs from the americans and my mom may be an american citizen but she is not american...blah blah and my mom said to her "The only difference between you and me is that your forefathers were slaves and mine were free".
The woman was mad and called our supervisor who is white but backed my mom up...
PS. I am Nigerian and black so when I say black and white, I am not being racist. I just think typing African American is too long and ridiculous. Besides, what am I supposed to call white people? European Americans? I am sorry, but I detest the word caucasian cos of its roots. Do that homework yourself.