Minority status question...? Plz help

[prometheusk]

I am 100% Moroccan, born to 100% moroccan parents in north Africa. I came here when I was 12 yrs old.

This might be too technical info for my question but even thoI am moroccan, I am not Arab. I am Berber from the people who inhabited that land before the arabs came.

I have done some research and it seems that minority status does not extend to north africans. Whether Arab, Berber or even black...

Do they consider north africans "white" in the race chart no matter what???

I do not look white at all, if anything I look arab or hispanic.

Any idea which box I should check guys?

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[deleted357625]

I am 100% Moroccan, born to 100% moroccan parents in north Africa. I came here when I was 12 yrs old.

This might be too technical info for my question but even thoI am moroccan, I am not Arab. I am Berber from the people who inhabited that land before the arabs came.

I have done some research and it seems that minority status does not extend to north africans. Whether Arab, Berber or even black...

Do they consider north africans "white" in the race chart no matter what???

I do not look white at all, if anything I look arab or hispanic.

Any idea which box I should check guys?

Just say your African and that would be considered underrepresented minority which is really good for you, helps extremely.

You can't lie about being African, they'll see once they see you

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Just say your African and that would be considered underrepresented minority which is really good for you, helps extremely.

You can't lie about being African, they'll see once they see you

please return to the kids' table, there is no "african" box. the rest of your post is worthy of your avatar.

OP you can identify with whatever you feel the most comfortable. You can also just leave the field blank if you find it hard to categorize yourself, which is what I personally did. I don't recall if there is an "other" + explain box, but there might have been.

 

[prometheusk]

Just say your African and that would be considered underrepresented minority which is really good for you, helps extremely.

You can't lie about being African, they'll see once they see you

I dont look black, if I check african american they'r going to expect to see a black guy, not a olive skin guy who was born in africa... could I get in trouble for checking the wrong box?

 

[deleted357625]

I dont look black, if I check african american they'r going to expect to see a black guy, not a olive skin guy who was born in africa... could I get in trouble for checking the wrong box?

No you won't get in trouble if your not sure. I would go with African American, not all African Americans are dark black or even black for that matter, some are really light skinned

 

[CaliGirl14]

I think when they're considering URM, they're talking about people who've had a disadvantage growing up, not the color of your skin. Do you feel disadvantaged?

 

[deleted357625]

I think when they're considering URM, they're talking about people who've had a disadvantage growing up, not the color of your skin. Do you feel disadvantaged?

URM=underrepresented minorities

-African Americans
-Hispanic
-Women
-Native American

 

[Thirteeen]

 

[RogueUnicorn]

OP, your choices specifically are as follows -

American Indian or Alaska Native
Asian
Black or African-American
Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander
White

You can also check more than one, but note that this is the Race section, and not Ethnicity

 

[aSagacious]

Just to play devil's advocate, are you a US citizen yet? If not, being considered an international applicant will work against the benefit of (potentially) being listed as a URM.

 

[rhesuspieces]

Well, if you are from Africa and you live in America, you are quite literally an African-American.

....but that doesn't mean you should be checking that off as your ethnicity.

 

[estradiol9]

I think when they're considering URM, they're talking about people who've had a disadvantage growing up, not the color of your skin. Do you feel disadvantaged?

This is false. These are two separate things. You can be an underrepresented minority. You can also be disadvantaged. You can be both. You can be neither. You don't have to be from an URM to be disadvantaged. White people can be disadvantaged. You also don't have to be disadvantaged to be URM. There are plenty of wealthy African Americans that did not grow disadvantaged.

Plus, I think the new application doesn't allow you to decide whether you are disadvantaged or not? Not sure about this 100%. They have a new section where you enter information about your parents, income, childhood, etc. I think this allows the adcoms to decide whether or not you were disadvantaged.

As for URM, it typically applies to african americans, hispanics, and native americans. (The above poster says women also but I don't know if this is true?)

If you feel as though you are one of the above, feel free to check off the URM. HOWEVER, I do think some adcoms may expect an African American/Hispanic/Native American to walk in.. so if they see an Arab, they may be confused or think you were trying to cheat the system or something. Or on the other hand, maybe they won't think anything odd about it at all.

I'm from Arabic descent as well and have asked about this before. I tend to use the White/Caucasian box and this is what I've heard others do as well. I have heard of Egyptians claiming to be "African American" but I honestly don't think that's correct. That's just my $.02 though.

 

[prometheusk]

I am a US citizen, US passport n all...

I am gonna go ahaid and check African american, I do feel disadvantaged since I had to switch from arabic to english.

I still have a hard time on the verbal section, I'm not even putting any weight on the essays.

I dont think they have an "Other" box, but if they do I'll check that instead.

Thanks for the imput guys...

 

[RogueUnicorn]

I am a US citizen, US passport n all...

I am gonna go ahaid and check African american, I do feel disadvantaged since I had to switch from arabic to english.

I still have a hard time on the verbal section, I'm not even putting any weight on the essays.

I dont think they have an "Other" box, but if they do I'll check that instead.

Thanks for the imput guys...

not a disadvantage

i'd like to remind you the "african american" is essentially a euphemism for black, so tread carefully.

 

[Hoya2009]

Um, if I could pull off AA, I would check that box for the higher acceptance rate for any set of #s. Especially if you are actially FROM Africa and live here now. but that's me.
Unless you're not a US citizen/permanent resident, in which case you will have a hard time and it won't matter.

 

[deleted357625]

I am a US citizen, US passport n all...

I am gonna go ahaid and check African american, I do feel disadvantaged since I had to switch from arabic to english.

I still have a hard time on the verbal section, I'm not even putting any weight on the essays.

I dont think they have an "Other" box, but if they do I'll check that instead.

Thanks for the imput guys...

good idea, it will help you a lot when comes time to applying also

 

[prometheusk]

This is false. These are two separate things. You can be an underrepresented minority. You can also be disadvantaged. You can be both. You can be neither. You don't have to be from an URM to be disadvantaged. White people can be disadvantaged. You also don't have to be disadvantaged to be URM. There are plenty of wealthy African Americans that did not grow disadvantaged.

Plus, I think the new application doesn't allow you to decide whether you are disadvantaged or not? Not sure about this 100%. They have a new section where you enter information about your parents, income, childhood, etc. I think this allows the adcoms to decide whether or not you were disadvantaged.

As for URM, it typically applies to african americans, hispanics, and native americans. (The above poster says women also but I don't know if this is true?)

If you feel as though you are one of the above, feel free to check off the URM. HOWEVER, I do think some adcoms may expect an African American/Hispanic/Native American to walk in.. so if they see an Arab, they may be confused or think you were trying to cheat the system or something. Or on the other hand, maybe they won't think anything odd about it at all.

I'm from Arabic descent as well and have asked about this before. I tend to use the White/Caucasian box and this is what I've heard others do as well. I have heard of Egyptians claiming to be "African American" but I honestly don't think that's correct. That's just my $.02 though.

Yea thats what everyone is saying online to check Caucasian/white. I can always play dumn if they think im trying to cheat the system (which I am not) I wish they had a arab catagory, would make things much simpler.

 

[Hifey]

I agree with this post. You don't have to be disadvantaged to be URM and vice versa. the two are mutually exclusive.

I was in a similar situation when I applied in that I wasn't sure what to put or what would be considered appropriate. In that case I checked off the two boxes that would be applicable to me (according to national understanding and my own personal view) and explained myself in my personal statement (i.e. made it clear where I was from). I don't know if it hurt me anywhere but I still got accepted at multiple schools and no one ever even brought it up.

This is false. These are two separate things. You can be an underrepresented minority. You can also be disadvantaged. You can be both. You can be neither. You don't have to be from an URM to be disadvantaged. White people can be disadvantaged. You also don't have to be disadvantaged to be URM. There are plenty of wealthy African Americans that did not grow disadvantaged.

Plus, I think the new application doesn't allow you to decide whether you are disadvantaged or not? Not sure about this 100%. They have a new section where you enter information about your parents, income, childhood, etc. I think this allows the adcoms to decide whether or not you were disadvantaged.

As for URM, it typically applies to african americans, hispanics, and native americans. (The above poster says women also but I don't know if this is true?)

If you feel as though you are one of the above, feel free to check off the URM. HOWEVER, I do think some adcoms may expect an African American/Hispanic/Native American to walk in.. so if they see an Arab, they may be confused or think you were trying to cheat the system or something. Or on the other hand, maybe they won't think anything odd about it at all.

I'm from Arabic descent as well and have asked about this before. I tend to use the White/Caucasian box and this is what I've heard others do as well. I have heard of Egyptians claiming to be "African American" but I honestly don't think that's correct. That's just my $.02 though.

 

[Thirteeen]

Everybody wants to be black until the cops show up. 😆

 

[KickStart]

I'm sure you've encountered this question before when applying to undergrad....and I'd wager you weren't "confused" on what to check then.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Yea thats what everyone is saying online to check Caucasian/white. I can always play dumn if they think im trying to cheat the system (which I am not) I wish they had a arab catagory, would make things much simpler.

yes you are, and you are already starting to justify it to yourself. to wit-

I am gonna go ahaid and check African american, I do feel disadvantaged since I had to switch from arabic to english. I still have a hard time on the verbal section, I'm not even putting any weight on the essays.

just be honest with yourself man

 

[Narmerguy]

I think when they're considering URM, they're talking about people who've had a disadvantage growing up, not the color of your skin. Do you feel disadvantaged?

Disadvantaged is different from URM.

This is false. These are two separate things. You can be an underrepresented minority. You can also be disadvantaged. You can be both. You can be neither. You don't have to be from an URM to be disadvantaged. White people can be disadvantaged. You also don't have to be disadvantaged to be URM. There are plenty of wealthy African Americans that did not grow disadvantaged.

Plus, I think the new application doesn't allow you to decide whether you are disadvantaged or not? Not sure about this 100%. They have a new section where you enter information about your parents, income, childhood, etc. I think this allows the adcoms to decide whether or not you were disadvantaged.

As for URM, it typically applies to african americans, hispanics, and native americans. (The above poster says women also but I don't know if this is true?)

If you feel as though you are one of the above, feel free to check off the URM. HOWEVER, I do think some adcoms may expect an African American/Hispanic/Native American to walk in.. so if they see an Arab, they may be confused or think you were trying to cheat the system or something. Or on the other hand, maybe they won't think anything odd about it at all.

I'm from Arabic descent as well and have asked about this before. I tend to use the White/Caucasian box and this is what I've heard others do as well. I have heard of Egyptians claiming to be "African American" but I honestly don't think that's correct. That's just my $.02 though.

Women are not underrepresented in medicine though they were decades ago. The proportion now very closely resembles that of the US population.

I'm sure you've encountered this question before when applying to undergrad....and I'd wager you weren't "confused" on what to check then.

This is what always gets me. How did these poor people grow up their whole lives never knowing how to identify themselves in the vast array of standardized tests that often require this information?

But if you're really confused, call the admissions department at one of the schools. But I imagine you already know what the answer to your question is.

 

[makeyourself]

Go for the AA, it will help a ton. My friend got into Columbia cause he put he was AA, as he was born in South Africa and came to the US when he was 7. He is one of the whitest people I know.

 

[Techmed07]

North African is considered white.. look it up.

 

[LizzyM]

Go for the AA, it will help a ton. My friend got into Columbia cause he put he was AA, as he was born in South Africa and came to the US when he was 7. He is one of the whitest people I know.

The difference is that medical school requires an interview and if the applicant seems to be full of B.S. the interviewer is likely to give a lower rating. In you were born abroad and list "speaking Arabic" on your application it is a pretty fair bet that the adcom will not buy your self-identifiation as African American.

 

[FIREitUP]

my mom mistook me for a black child when I was a few days old so i put AA on my AMCAS and got accepted to Columbia.

 

[startswithb]

I interviewed right after a trip to the Bahamas and got accepted to Harvard.

 

[getdown]

off topic but wasn't Bleargh made a mod?? What happened to his mod logo and bolded name?

As to the topic of conversation... yeah, no way.

 

[kcin]

Quit trying to cheat and just compete with everyone else on a level playing field, nancy.

 

[Wolverine2007]

I love how many of you are making jokes or are seriously saying I put African American/Black and got into XYZ school. I'm sure that's not how things work. John off the street that is African American can't just apply to med school and get in, I'm sorry.

Some of you alls comments are ridiculous. Don't demolish the merits of people that work. 😎

To the OP race is socially constructed, if you personally identify with being African American then check it off. As far as disadvantaged you can be economically or educationally disadvantaged. These options are given on the AMCAS website when filling out the application.

 

[MCAT guy]

 

[glikegrandpa]

I dont look black, if I check african american they'r going to expect to see a black guy, not a olive skin guy who was born in africa... could I get in trouble for checking the wrong box?

...if you're from Africa, why are you white?

 

[Swiss Medical]

What about people with albinism??

 

[rhesuspieces]

off topic but wasn't Bleargh made a mod?? What happened to his mod logo and bolded name?

I think you missed basically everything.

 

[docdonny]

Its really annoying when people ask these question bc the OP knows what the answer is. In the US when someone says "African American" they mean black, descendants of slaves from Africa, and everyone reading this knows that. Unless you grew up under a rock OP you should know this as fact. When you went to school and studied African American history they were not talking about an Arab from northern Africa and you know it. You should just check off caucasian

 

[mauberley]

off topic but wasn't Bleargh made a mod?? What happened to his mod logo and bolded name?

He squandered it all on booze and hookers.

 

[farrago]

You guys know what's funny? Obama is HALF-WHITE, but he's the first black president. Clearly, when needed, the definition of black or African American can be flexible... 🙄

 

[docdonny]

You guys know what's funny? Obama is HALF-WHITE, but he's the first black president. Clearly, when needed, the definition of black or African American can be flexible... 🙄

your kidding right. you would classify obama as white. there is no flexibility. If you look black and are a desendant of an African slave..you are black. You can be half white and still be classified as black. I dont think there is one person who would call Obama white.

this has nothing to do with that however this has to do with the OP who is from northern Africa. you are caucasian. whites refers to group of people who are classified as caucasian but they are not the only ones in that group. it also includes arab this has been discussed on multiple threads

 

[FIREitUP]

your kidding right. you would classify obama as white. there is no flexibility. If you look black and are a desendant of an African slave..you are black. You can be half white and still be classified as black. I dont think there is one person who would call Obama white.

this has nothing to do with that however this has to do with the OP who is from northern Africa. you are caucasian. whites refers to group of people who are classified as caucasian but they are not the only ones in that group. it also includes arab this has been discussed on multiple threads

I think Farrago makes a good point regarding our understanding of race. If this was Brazil, Obama would not even have been considered black (in America, we use the "one drop rule", which means that if you have one drop of black in you, you are considered black). Furthermore, he grew up very privileged, raised by his white grandmother and has had basically no connection with his black father, who is African and not a descendent of slaves. Instead of trying to make milestones in America demonstrating our newfound tolerance, we should perhaps base our decisions on who would have done a better job as president. Personally, I think Hillary Clinton was far more qualified and had not only a great deal more experience in the senate, but through her experience as first lady, a great deal of knowledge of health care and it's issues.

To touch upon the issue of the thread, as many have said, the reason for URM is because they are more likely to service a certain population, and african american patients are more likely to identify and be comfortable with an african american physician. While we can all debate the legitimacy of this, I feel that if that's the case, we should also focus on the likelyhood of the URM individual to actually serve his/her population as well. However, if the reason that a school is enrolling a URM is because of "diversity", I think that's a less than noble reason that is rooted in the schools image of itself rather than who will be able to have a greatest impact on patients who need health care.

 

[DaisyBuchanan]

...if you're from Africa, why are you white?

Thank goodness, this thread needed a Mean Girls quote. 👍

 

[estradiol9]

Yea thats what everyone is saying online to check Caucasian/white. I can always play dumn if they think im trying to cheat the system (which I am not) I wish they had a arab catagory, would make things much simpler.

Seriously? You can always play dumb? Why would medical schools want to accept somebody who "plays dumb" over the other thousands of applicants who are probably perfectly qualified? I'm pretty sure that playing dumb is not the way to get into medical school.

This is also pretty much another thread on the same topic:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=590324

Here is something that was said in the thread that I pretty much agree with:

See this is what you don't get...me as a Puerto Rican male and many of my counterparts as Black, Puerto Rican, Mexican, or Native American males/females have faced hardships that are irrelevant to our socioeconomic backgrounds. We face the prejudice of being presumed poor, ignorant, and incapable of things. This is something that we face no matter how rich we are or how advantaged we are. This is something that white people will never have to face in the same facet. That is the point of the URM...and that is why they have a separate category for disadvantaged. The other point is that we are more likely to go back and work in undeserved black/hispanic/native american communities to attempt and help people despite most likely receiving less pay and being in worse conditions. Get it?





Yes if you put African-American you are presumed a URM. Just like all Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, and Native Americans are considered URM. It has to do with the percent of your ethnicity in the total population of the country versus the percent of your ethnicity that are in the medical field. That is why Asians, Indians, Arabs, and other Hispanics despite being minorities are not "Under-Represented in Medicine."

So if people are putting down "African-American" and are of Arabic background they are gaming the system because if they are not of Black-African descent then they will never really face the same prejudices and stereotyes that blacks do. I do feel that Somalians and Sudanese people despite being of mixed background would be considered black because they were mixed with Arabic a long time ago...similar to how some black people in the United States are lighter skinned due to racial mixing between slave owners and slaves hundreds of years ago. Also, what are the chances of a North African Arab person going to work in undeserved African-American communities? Not nearly as high as African-American people doing the same. Hence the classification difference and the reason for it.

Now, I don't think that just African Americans, Native Americans, and Hispanics only face hardship. That is why I said before that URM and disadvantaged are NOT the same thing. You can be URM and not disadvantaged or vice versa. I don't think you can classify yourself as "disadvantaged" anymore anyway on the new applications. I believe, not sure, that you simply give information about your childhood and what not which allows adcoms to use discretion when determining if you were disadvantaged.

 

[Thirteeen]

You guys know what's funny? Obama is HALF-WHITE, but he's the first black president. Clearly, when needed, the definition of black or African American can be flexible... 🙄

Perhaps because he is phenotypically black.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

off topic but wasn't Bleargh made a mod?? What happened to his mod logo and bolded name?

As to the topic of conversation... yeah, no way.

Refer to the date that bleargh was made a mod.

 

[PSU2013]

Honestly, I really do not know why people want to be black when its going to benefit them. If you have not lived your entire life as a black person don't start "identifying" with black people now. I am pretty sure if you were going on a job interview you wouldn't want to be classified as black.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Honestly, I really do not know why people want to be black when its going to benefit them. If you have not lived your entire life as a black person don't start "identifying" with black people now. I am pretty sure if you were going on a job interview you wouldn't want to be classified as black.

I'm pretty sure that you don't want to be judged on the quality of that thought, friend.

 

[docdonny]

I think Farrago makes a good point regarding our understanding of race. If this was Brazil, Obama would not even have been considered black (in America, we use the "one drop rule", which means that if you have one drop of black in you, you are considered black). Furthermore, he grew up very privileged, raised by his white grandmother and has had basically no connection with his black father, who is African and not a descendent of slaves. Instead of trying to make milestones in America demonstrating our newfound tolerance, we should perhaps base our decisions on who would have done a better job as president. Personally, I think Hillary Clinton was far more qualified and had not only a great deal more experience in the senate, but through her experience as first lady, a great deal of knowledge of health care and it's issues.

To touch upon the issue of the thread, as many have said, the reason for URM is because they are more likely to service a certain population, and african american patients are more likely to identify and be comfortable with an african american physician. While we can all debate the legitimacy of this, I feel that if that's the case, we should also focus on the likelyhood of the URM individual to actually serve his/her population as well. However, if the reason that a school is enrolling a URM is because of "diversity", I think that's a less than noble reason that is rooted in the schools image of itself rather than who will be able to have a greatest impact on patients who need health care.

Great post, really it is. But what the OP is talking about has nothing to do with what you said and there was no reason for you to get political or discuss your views on URM status. The point is the OP clearly never identified himself as African American before so why all of a sudden would he want to now. We all know what someone means when they say African American please dont get all philosophical. We know that in the US African American=Black. Just because there is an advantage in admission all of sudden people who are 1/8 native american are asking if they are a URM and are seriously trying to convice themselves, you cannot be serious with these question

 

[0919mmk]

Honestly, I really do not know why people want to be black when its going to benefit them. If you have not lived your entire life as a black person don't start "identifying" with black people now. I am pretty sure if you were going on a job interview you wouldn't want to be classified as black.

Pons, this guy is just saying that black people face tougher odds in job interviews due to biases/subtle racism that is far from dead in America. You disagree?

 

[Narmerguy]

Honestly, I really do not know why people want to be black when its going to benefit them. If you have not lived your entire life as a black person don't start "identifying" with black people now. I am pretty sure if you were going on a job interview you wouldn't want to be classified as black.

I'm pretty sure that you don't want to be judged on the quality of that thought, friend.

Really? The disadvantages faced in the job market by women, minorities (particularly blacks at least in the US), and homosexuals is very well documented and studied (with less consensus on the latter group).

 

[getdown]

I think you missed basically everything.

Yeah apparently. Geez, you study for a couple of days and you miss out on stuff... now isn't that a clear microcosm of what med school does to you? lol. Good stuff though.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Really? The disadvantages faced in the job market by women, minorities (particularly blacks at least in the US), and homosexuals is very well documented and studied (with less consensus on the latter group).

I think you misread my comment. I'm pretty sure that the advantages and disadvantages of being black in America aren't something you get to turn on and off as it suits you. You don't have to "identify" with black people to receive the negative externality is places upon you; it happens as soon as "they" see the color of your skin (or determine it through contextual information.) You don't get to "choose" to be identified as black when you show up for an interview. You either are or are not.