Misdemeanor Charge While in Medical School

[MDStudent]

So I have never been arrested or even come close to getting in trouble in my life. I'll spare you guys the long story, I got charged with Battery yesterday which is a Class A Misdemeanor. I talked to a lawyer and he said the worst that could happen is me being put on supervision and after 2 years I get everything erased from my records.
Here are my questions:
1. Say I am found guilty and convicted, does my medical school ever find out?
2. And if they find out I've been convicted, can they kick me out of school?
3. What type of effect will this have on my residency applications?

I am totally clueless about this situation, any help would be much appreciated.

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[BigBucksPTA]

So I have never been arrested or even come close to getting in trouble in my life. I'll spare you guys the long story, I got charged with Battery yesterday which is a Class A Misdemeanor. I talked to a lawyer and he said the worst that could happen is me being put on supervision and after 2 years I get everything erased from my records.
Here are my questions:
1. Say I am found guilty and convicted, does my medical school ever find out?
2. And if they find out I've been convicted, can they kick me out of school?
3. What type of effect will this have on my residency applications?

I am totally clueless about this situation, any help would be much appreciated.

1. Yes. And if they don't, the board will.
2. Yes, if you lied on your application. And perhaps even if you didn't.
3. Depends. But it won't help.

Don't mean to sound so negative, but I think most med schools have close to a zero-tolerance policy. Just trying to prepare u for the worst. Speak to your Dean or something.

 

[soeagerun2or]

1. Yes. And if they don't, the board will.
2. Yes, if you lied on your application. And perhaps even if you didn't.
3. Depends. But it won't help.

Don't mean to sound so negative, but I think most med schools have close to a zero-tolerance policy. Just trying to prepare u for the worst. Speak to your Dean or something.

You're not even in medical school, how can you dispense any advice?

 

[Tired Pigeon]

You're not even in medical school, how can you dispense any advice?

Well, I am in medical school, and I think he's pretty much right on the money.

To the OP: you need the best lawyer you can afford. Do whatever you can to get the charges dropped or, if you go to trial, be found not guilty.

 

[silas2642]

So I have never been arrested or even come close to getting in trouble in my life. I'll spare you guys the long story, I got charged with Battery yesterday which is a Class A Misdemeanor. I talked to a lawyer and he said the worst that could happen is me being put on supervision and after 2 years I get everything erased from my records.
Here are my questions:
1. Say I am found guilty and convicted, does my medical school ever find out?
2. And if they find out I've been convicted, can they kick me out of school?
3. What type of effect will this have on my residency applications?

I am totally clueless about this situation, any help would be much appreciated.

I'd pm law2doc. But to me, it seems like it would be better for the dean of your school to hear the explanation from you than so they'd be able to help you with any licensing issues that may come up rather than to read it in the paper.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'd pm law2doc. But to me, it seems like it would be better for the dean of your school to hear the explanation from you than so they'd be able to help you with any licensing issues that may come up rather than to read it in the paper.

I didn't work in criminal law and so am not the right lawyer for this situation (besides the OP already consulted one). But FWIW, any criminal/background investigation for licensing or employment purposes is going to find a recent battery.

 

[njbmd]

So I have never been arrested or even come close to getting in trouble in my life. I'll spare you guys the long story, I got charged with Battery yesterday which is a Class A Misdemeanor. I talked to a lawyer and he said the worst that could happen is me being put on supervision and after 2 years I get everything erased from my records.
Here are my questions:
1. Say I am found guilty and convicted, does my medical school ever find out?
2. And if they find out I've been convicted, can they kick me out of school?
3. What type of effect will this have on my residency applications?

I am totally clueless about this situation, any help would be much appreciated.

You have legal representation so follow the advice of your attorney. Ask your attorney to find out the ramifications of conviction in terms of your residency applications and licensure. Finding out this information is perfectly within the range of what attorneys are able to do for clients. Otherwise, keep all communication about this matter between you and your legal counsel. You are paying good money for your attorney's advice so resist the urge to seek advice from message boards and utilize the advice of the person who knows your case the best. Anything that you get from here may or may not apply to you and your case.

Also, be on your best behavior from here through the rest of your medical career. You made a mistake once but do not compound it by not relying on the advice of the one person who can help you most.

 

[elby09]

Just wanted to add- I was conviced of a misdemeanor of reckless driving about a year ago (for speeding). I put it on every secondary that asked when applying to med schools this year and it never came up and I just got an acceptance. I guess some misdemeanors are worse than others, but just the fact of having one shouldnt be an issue. Hopefully it will all work out if you are able to explain it.

 

[45408]

So I have never been arrested or even come close to getting in trouble in my life. I'll spare you guys the long story, I got charged with Battery yesterday which is a Class A Misdemeanor. I talked to a lawyer and he said the worst that could happen is me being put on supervision and after 2 years I get everything erased from my records.
Here are my questions:
1. Say I am found guilty and convicted, does my medical school ever find out?
2. And if they find out I've been convicted, can they kick me out of school?
3. What type of effect will this have on my residency applications?

I am totally clueless about this situation, any help would be much appreciated.

Kick his ass, Seabass!

 

[DoctorPLASTIC]

Well first off don't listen to your lawyer.......ask all of us anonymous internet users for advice.😴

 

[Law2Doc]

Well first off don't listen to your lawyer.......ask all of us anonymous internet users for advice.😴

Well, it is the best advice you can get for the price. You probably paid a bundle to your lawyer with no guarantee that he knows what he's talking about. With anonymous internet users, even when we're wrong we're worth the expense.

 

[MattD]

Just wanted to add- I was conviced of a misdemeanor of reckless driving about a year ago (for speeding). I put it on every secondary that asked when applying to med schools this year and it never came up and I just got an acceptance. I guess some misdemeanors are worse than others, but just the fact of having one shouldnt be an issue. Hopefully it will all work out if you are able to explain it.

A moving violation does not equal a violent crime.

OP, stay out of the bars, I'm betting without the alcohol whatever you were fighting about wouldn't have seemed quite as worth it.

Now, if you were simply defending some girls honor who was being assaulted, and now you're getting the shaft over it, or some other understandable reason for violence, then please accept my profuse apologies. But realistically...... stay out of the bars, apparently you're a mean drunk 🙂

 

[DoctorPLASTIC]

Well, it is the best advice you can get for the price. You probably paid a bundle to your lawyer with no guarantee that he knows what he's talking about. With anonymous internet users, even when we're wrong we're worth the expense.

Way to go L2D, once again you turned the truth around to make it look false! You really are a Lawyer!😀

 

[MDStudent]

Sorry, I probably should have explained my situation better. There were actually 7 of us and 1 other guy. 1 of our guys got into an argument with the "victim" and they started fighting, and the other 6 of us tried to stop both of them. I assure you if all 7 of us got involved, he guy would have a few broken limbs rather than just a few cuts and bruises. What sucks here is that 6 of us absolutely did nothing, but 1 of us did. But we all got charged for it. The lawyer told us that at worst we can plead guilty and get a 2 year supervision, after which the records will be expunged. But in the mean time, I will be starting rotations, and I'm sure my school will do a background check.

 

[MattD]

Sorry, I probably should have explained my situation better. There were actually 7 of us and 1 other guy. 1 of our guys got into an argument with the "victim" and they started fighting, and the other 6 of us tried to stop both of them. I assure you if all 7 of us got involved, he guy would have a few broken limbs rather than just a few cuts and bruises. What sucks here is that 6 of us absolutely did nothing, but 1 of us did. But we all got charged for it. The lawyer told us that at worst we can plead guilty and get a 2 year supervision, after which the records will be expunged. But in the mean time, I will be starting rotations, and I'm sure my school will do a background check.

Were yall in an alley? Were there not witnesses? If the story is really as you say, why would the prosecutor be charging you? Doesn't seem like much of a case to me. Or by "breaking it up" do you mean the other 6 of you restrained the "victim" while talking your friend down? Not trying to be rude here, but it doesn't really make much sense.

 

[Taurus]

You're not even in medical school, how can you dispense any advice?

She's gonna be a doctor, you know.

 

[mudphudwannabe]

I think talking to the dean of your school is good advice -- you need to give them some warning before it becomes a problem with your rotations.

Looking at the bigger picture, though, it sounds like you need to get your life together. I'm not trying to be mean, but as a future doctor, patients will be relying on you as a source of strength and support. As one of my teachers said, you can only bring patients up to your own level, not somehow raise them up to be in a better situation than you. That means you have to take care of yourself in both your personal and professional lives. Perhaps this was an isolated, misinterpreted incident, as you say. But if this part of a pattern developing in your life, I strongly suggest you seek help. Your school probably has a counselor you can talk to.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Were yall in an alley? Were there not witnesses? If the story is really as you say, why would the prosecutor be charging you? Doesn't seem like much of a case to me. Or by "breaking it up" do you mean the other 6 of you restrained the "victim" while talking your friend down? Not trying to be rude here, but it doesn't really make much sense.

Yeah, I agree. If the story really is like how the op is telling it, I wouldn't think he'd stand much chance of being convicted. Regardless, that's what the op needs to focus on right now -- getting the charges dropped or at least not getting convicted if they go forward. He's going to need to know how that works out before figuring out how to handle the background check issue.

 

[Critical Mass]

It is at this point where I need to step in and state that I am in fact a dean at MDStudent's school, and we have begun dismissal proceedings.

😀

Naw, keep it all on the DL. I think that this sort of thing will work itself out over time.

 

[Taurus]

I think talking to the dean of your school is good advice -- you need to give them some warning before it becomes a problem with your rotations.

Looking at the bigger picture, though, it sounds like you need to get your life together. I'm not trying to be mean, but as a future doctor, patients will be relying on you as a source of strength and support. As one of my teachers said, you can only bring patients up to your own level, not somehow raise them up to be in a better situation than you. That means you have to take care of yourself in both your personal and professional lives. Perhaps this was an isolated, misinterpreted incident, as you say. But if this part of a pattern developing in your life, I strongly suggest you seek help. Your school probably has a counselor you can talk to.

As long as it is still in the preliminary stages, I would not involve the school. As sure as the sun rises each morning, your little incident will make its way back to you. Maybe by word of mouth, email, or in your permanent record. This would be bad for you, especially if all charges are dropped later on. I wouldn't even tell your friends. Take a wait and see approach.

Rely on the advice of a good lawyer. If you get convicted, then you'll have to involve the school. But only at that point.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

As long as it is still in the preliminary stages, I would not involve the school. As sure as the sun rises each morning, your little incident will make its way back to you. Maybe by word of mouth, email, or in your permanent record. This would be bad for you, especially if all charges are dropped later on. I wouldn't even tell your friends. Take a wait and see approach.

Rely on the advice of a good lawyer. If you get convicted, then you'll have to involve the school. But only at that point.

Exactly. If this blows over, the op might really regret informing other people about it at all. If it looks like the op can't avoid a conviction, then it might be time to talk to the dean.

 

[sanche60]

Um, if you didnt actually participate in beating the guy then why the hell would you plead guilty to the charge? Tell your so called friend to fess up and take the blame for attacking the other guy so you dont get screwed. If you want to work in a hospital you dont want any violent crimes on your record. I know illinois hospitals wont even allow you to work in a hospital with that type of charge without a letter from the governor. Of course it will vary from state to state, but you need to look out for number one instead of taking it as a team. Even if you expunge the record you will have to disclose it on your icense app and that wont make your life easy. Yes an expungement will allow you to deny it on job and residency apps but every time you apply for a license youll have to disclose it. Youll very likely be able to get a license(ive read of guys getting a license right after they were released from jail, or a month or so after they got charged with possession of cocaine with a hooker in the passenger seat) but why would you go through all that crap for the rest of your life if you didnt do anything? Find a lawyer with a friggin backbone and get it taken care of properly. Dont just plead guilty and hope it goes away(as much as you want it to). I guess im saying dont run from this problem, face it diligently and get it taken care of. Good luck.

 

[jmk]

this is why schools have ombudsman- they can give you advice but are required and commit to keeping the conversations confidential.

don't talk to the dean until you talk to an ombudsperson don't talk to anyone until you talk to your lawyer

#1 rule when charged with a crime DO NOT TALK

 

[calcaneus]

If you are going to try and keep this quiet then posting here may not be the best idea.

I could be way off, but I remember reading something on one of the podiatry forums (I'm a pre-podiatry student) about a current student getting reprimanded by his/her school for vulgar language in a posting. I don't know alot about computers and the ability of the school to get your identity or whether or not they actually patrol any of these forums, but I thought you might want to hear this story.

disclaimer: that story wasn't about me so can't confirm or deny its validity, take it or leave it as your choice

 

[Doctor Bagel]

this is why schools have ombudsman- they can give you advice but are required and commit to keeping the conversations confidential.

don't talk to the dean until you talk to an ombudsperson don't talk to anyone until you talk to your lawyer

#1 rule when charged with a crime DO NOT TALK

Exactly, and if your school doesn't have a guaranteed confidential source, don't talk to anyone. Medical schools can be such huge gossip mills, so I wouldn't even share this with my friends.

 

[sirus_virus]

#1 rule when charged with a crime DO NOT TALK

Enough said.

 

[juleswinfield]

She's gonna be a doctor, you know.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh man. That thread was so painful. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[Llenroc]

What you need is to find some new friends.

 

[gonnabmd]

Sorry to renew this thread, but I just wanted to make sure the OP understands. The worst thing that you can do is plead guilty. Never, ever do that; especially in this case. If you fight this correctly you can avoid a conviction, which is the absolute last thing you want. Even if this is dragged on and on in continuancce after continuance, you will never have to answer "Yes, I have been convicted, pled no contest, etc. to a misdemeanor." Try to ensure that you always can say "No." Whoever told you that you would be best off to accept these charges in exchange for a 'future expungment,' does not really care about your best interests. Get a real lawyer, and abandon your friends in this legal debacle. Expungments are so hit or miss anyway; you never really know what level that record clearance goes up to. For instance, I'm pretty sure that the FBI will still have a record of your crime, and the FBI is the source for many states' record checks for licensure purposes. Finally, even if you have this expunged, you will still have to answer "Yes" to the dreaded question mentioned above.

 

[spitfire5454]

i thought that misdemeanors were really no big deal. i would think that plenty of doctors have misdemeanors on record. or is it just the nature of this charge (battery) that makes this a bad one?

i was recently in a wrong place-wrong time deal where i was charged with a felony. I had no witnesses or anything that resembled a sure fire defense. My lawyer decided that if we went to court, that there was a %20 chance that we could lose. i know that i cant practice with a felony on my record, so i took a plea bargin that dropped the charge to a misdemeanor. i am about to start clinicals and it hasnt come up at all. All it really did was make me really hate our legal system. Since you have witnesses and also have a better situation, i would go to court. if it happend like you say, then i dont think any lawyer would have hard time getting you out of it.

and i agree about never pleading guilty, but i was facing a carreer ending decision and it a %20 chance i couldnt take. but your are not. so fight it.

 

[gonnabmd]

I also think that misdemeanors are generally not the end of the world. But yes, battery is probably the worst misdemeanor charge you can get as a doctor-hopeful (probably, not for certain). And if you can avoid getting any record at all, fight with all you've got.

 

[MDStudent]

Sorry to renew this thread, but I just wanted to make sure the OP understands. The worst thing that you can do is plead guilty. Never, ever do that; especially in this case. If you fight this correctly you can avoid a conviction, which is the absolute last thing you want. Even if this is dragged on and on in continuancce after continuance, you will never have to answer "Yes, I have been convicted, pled no contest, etc. to a misdemeanor." Try to ensure that you always can say "No." Whoever told you that you would be best off to accept these charges in exchange for a 'future expungment,' does not really care about your best interests. Get a real lawyer, and abandon your friends in this legal debacle. Expungments are so hit or miss anyway; you never really know what level that record clearance goes up to. For instance, I'm pretty sure that the FBI will still have a record of your crime, and the FBI is the source for many states' record checks for licensure purposes. Finally, even if you have this expunged, you will still have to answer "Yes" to the dreaded question mentioned above.

its not so much pleading guilty as it is taking the option given to you. Here is a direct statement made by my lawyer. Let me know if this sounds fishy to anyone. I myself have no clue if this is legitimate or not:

"you do not get convicted with supervision because it is a period of time in which the entry of any judgment is deferred. If you violate the terms of your supervision – say by getting arrested – then they can enter a judgment of conviction."

 

[Nombre Falso]

its not so much pleading guilty as it is taking the option given to you. Here is a direct statement made by my lawyer. Let me know if this sounds fishy to anyone. I myself have no clue if this is legitimate or not:

"you do not get convicted with supervision because it is a period of time in which the entry of any judgment is deferred. If you violate the terms of your supervision – say by getting arrested – then they can enter a judgment of conviction."

"convicted with supervision" sounds like a qualifying statement.

sounds fishy to me.

 

[gonnabmd]

That sounds to me like some sort of pre-trial diversion or some such business. That is often something that has to be divulged if asked. You definitely don't wanna be in a situation where you have to think long and hard about what you have to self-report in terms of criminal history. You don't want to have run the risk of ever seeming dishonest just because you have some kind of unique circumstance (i.e. not an outright conviction, but not a dismissal of charges either) involving your legal history that a licensing board will just view as you were not totally honest, in the case that you do not divulge fully. If it's the only option you've got then take it. But for a couple hundred dollars or maybe less you could get a second opinion from another lawyer just to be sure. Also, any sort of 'group deal' you are getting with your friends will be kind of like a group vacation deal for spring break in college: simply not as good as you could've done by spending more money and tailoring to exactly what you want. I can't stress that enough; look out for number 1.

 

[sanche60]

its not so much pleading guilty as it is taking the option given to you. Here is a direct statement made by my lawyer. Let me know if this sounds fishy to anyone. I myself have no clue if this is legitimate or not:

"you do not get convicted with supervision because it is a period of time in which the entry of any judgment is deferred. If you violate the terms of your supervision – say by getting arrested – then they can enter a judgment of conviction."

this is absolutely correct once the supervision is complete the charges are dropped or the case is dismissed(again depends on your state), but keep in mind that many states do not prohibit jobs or schools from asking if you have plead guilty to anything regardless if you have been convicted or not. So even if you havent been convicted many applications can pull that info from you legally since you have to plead guilty to get supervision. Once you get it expunged you will not have to disclose it except for licensing purposes or when subsequently charged. What the OP should ask his lawyer is, what will happen to me if i plead not guilty and then get convicted by trial? i think youll find that the answer is, yep, you guessed it- court supervision. Most lawyers would prefer to do no real work and get paid about the same amount of money as if they had done something.
Also, your school has to sign off on your licensing app. It may be problematic if they notice something on your app which you ignored to disclose to them, unless you had the right to withhold it from them(i.e. expungement).

 

[FizbanZymogen]

Sorry to renew this thread, but I just wanted to make sure the OP understands. The worst thing that you can do is plead guilty. Never, ever do that; especially in this case. If you fight this correctly you can avoid a conviction, which is the absolute last thing you want. Even if this is dragged on and on in continuancce after continuance, you will never have to answer "Yes, I have been convicted, pled no contest, etc. to a misdemeanor." Try to ensure that you always can say "No." Whoever told you that you would be best off to accept these charges in exchange for a 'future expungment,' does not really care about your best interests. Get a real lawyer, and abandon your friends in this legal debacle. Expungments are so hit or miss anyway; you never really know what level that record clearance goes up to. For instance, I'm pretty sure that the FBI will still have a record of your crime, and the FBI is the source for many states' record checks for licensure purposes. Finally, even if you have this expunged, you will still have to answer "Yes" to the dreaded question mentioned above.

According to the the FBI's website and other people I have spoken with I'm pretty sure its the other way around in that the FBI updates its database based on the records of the states. This way the FBI's database lists a persons record with all states that individual might have been convicted in. If you run a record check at the state level and its the only state you have lived in then you can be pretty sure the FBI has the same record (I'm pretty sure if you committed a Federal Crime then things may be different).

 

[mjl1717]

Well, it is the best advice you can get for the price. You probably paid a bundle to your lawyer with no guarantee that he knows what he's talking about. With anonymous internet users, even when we're wrong we're worth the expense.

L2D you put a good, humorous spin on life scenarios... Ill return after dinner with my 2 cents..

Back to the OP's question..I think the most important thing is to get a great lawyer (and cough up many $$$) who specializes in criminal law especially assault and battery ! {you would have been better off getting caught just smoking a joi--.} Because diplomatic, extremely cerebral, possibly tongue-bitting, and kindly attitudes are absolutely needed in medicine.. I doubt this ends your career but you will Always have to mention it on Licensing application.. The ombudperson idea sounds good if your school has one but I would NOT run and spill my guts overly fast to the Dean. Take some deep breaths and keep this as your Biggest secret and be nice and with time this too will pass.. One skeleton in the closet is semi-accepted.. As long as it is not an entire graveyard.

Direct answer to your qs.

1) if convicted your school could find out during a security check or application for clinical rotations..
2) if convicted I doubt they kick you out of school but could see the case going before the school disciplinary committee if you tell them
3)during residency application, you would have to mention it, but I dont think it would stop you from getting a residency..

I rest my case.

 

[MystikBliss]

umm...this may seem like stupid advice...but how about you consult a REAL FREAKIN LAWYER. From all the posts that I read, half these people don't know what the hell they are talking about and reading their crap is making me panic and I didn't do anything!

My advice: don't do anymore battery! That's sooo not a good thing to do...but if you already knew that, then all i can say is that "this too shall pass" and somehow I don't think you are the only aspiring physician who has ever gotten into trouble and somehow, I seriously doubt that this charge is going to stop you from becoming a physician...I could be wrong, but I just don't think this is as big a deal as you and some of the people posting are making it out to be. It's bad, but damn, you didn't kill anyone...did you?

 

[gonnabmd]

\
3)during residency application, you would have to mention it, but I dont think it would stop you from getting a residency..

I was under the impression that ERAS just aked about felonies. Is that not true? (I'm just asking a question, not arguing).

 

[Dr. C. Troy]

My advice: don't do anymore battery! That's sooo not a good thing to do...

Wait, you mean battery doesn't look impressive on your application? Next you'll be telling me that selling dope isn't good either. Dammit, why do I always turn to 50 Cent for advice!?!

 

[mjl1717]

I was under the impression that ERAS just aked about felonies. Is that not true? (I'm just asking a question, not arguing).

Sorry for #3-I should have said I think you'd have to mention it... Im not 100% sure. And this is not the field to give inaccurate information..