Misinformation by aana

[The kitchen sink]

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They literally wrote ‘Spin the facts’. More like ‘Fake the facts’ if you ask me. This is a blalant campaign to lie to the public. Needs to go to court for slander and misinformation, imo.

Equating an undergraduate BSN to medical school. 😵‍💫

Disclaimer: not an anesthesiologist, not here to fan unnecessary flames, just a concerned physician bringing this stuff to light. I assume this sort of information is nothing new for my anesthesia colleagues, but how can you go into work knowing this is what the crnas are campaigning for?

Edit: This invokes more distrust than anything. At some point, it became open season on physicians, all physicians. If anything, my hope is to make sure more people take the red pill instead of this blue pill bull****

 

[coffeebythelake]

Yeah its bull**** and everyone knows it. BSN nursing school can be had for 2 years online. Critical care nursing experience is following instructions and order sets. Nurse anesthesia school? Blahahha it doesn't count as a doing a central line or taking care of a cardiac patient when they are watching the anesthesiologist do it. These nurses are lying through their teeth to equate any of their experience to the rigors and training of a physician.

It's like the Nigerian prince email scams. Thr people who are dumb enough to believe it.. that's who the AANA are looking to target.

Their lies have gotten so crazy I am convinced their own militant cult members have actually deluded themselves into believing jt to be truth. It's sad and pathetic that these people actually dictate official policy and strategy for their joke of an organization.

The important question that should be asked is: if they really have so much education and training how come they know so little? Either they are slacking or they are dumb. So what is it AANA?

 

[Peterluger]

the thing is, this message from crna’s is fraud. So how come they aren’t yet throwing CRNAs in jail for misrepresenting themselves?

 

[BLADEMDA]

the thing is, this message from crna’s is fraud. So how come they aren’t yet throwing CRNAs in jail for misrepresenting themselves?

Because our entire society has become tolerant of fraud and misrepresentation from the top on down. What is obviously false becomes true based on the political agenda of the organization or party.

 

[jwk]

This graphic first popped up a couple years ago. Notice how it leaves the four years of undergrad that you did, and includes theirs, and implies that everything in their undergrad curriculum was nursing based. Yes it's all a bunch of lies.

It's popping back up because AA enabling legislation is coming up in a number of states this year, and they're scared to death of the competition. 🤣

 

[Peterluger]

Because our entire society has become tolerant of fraud and misrepresentation from the top on down. What is obviously false becomes true based on the political agenda of the organization or party.

I wouldnt generalize so much about political parties, its really just one party that is the issue. falseness is just from the republicans because they love guns and in general they want to kill everyone who doesnt look like them

 

[coffeebythelake]

This graphic first popped up a couple years ago. Notice how it leaves the four years of undergrad that you did, and includes theirs, and implies that everything in their undergrad curriculum was nursing based. Yes it's all a bunch of lies.

It's popping back up because AA enabling legislation is coming up in a number of states this year, and they're scared to death of the competition. 🤣

According to AANA the CRNAs have so much education and training to be equal to if not superior to that of physicians, that they are qualified to practice independently (although having poorer outcomes and being held to a lower standard in terms of liability and malpractice), and at the same time AANA says that AAs education and training is not sufficient to practice in an ACT practice supervised by an anesthesiologist.

Even though CRNA = AA in terms of education and training!!

What a fukking joke the AANA is. Completely delusional nurses. Maybe they should rename themselves Q-AANA

 

[BLADEMDA]

I wouldnt generalize so much about political parties, its really just one party that is the issue. falseness is just from the republicans because they love guns and in general they want to kill everyone who doesnt look like them

That is the thing about "agendas" and "bias" you fail to see your own. I don't want to escalate this thread to be about politics but just look at the border crisis as an example. One party fails to see anything wrong with the policy at the border despite the facts to the contrary. This Bias and desire to make what is clearly false become true exists across the spectrum. The AANA is simply capitalizing on the climate of making falsehoods become facts.

This is a big change from just 2008 when facts still mattered.

 

[BLADEMDA]

According to AANA the CRNAs have so much education and training to be equal to if not superior to that of physicians, that they are qualified to practice independently (although held to a lower standard in terms of liability and malpractice), and at the same time AANA says that AAs education and training is not sufficient to practice in an ACT practice supervised by an anesthesiologist.

Even though CRNA = AA in terms of education and training!!

What a fukking joke the AANA is. Maybe they should rename themselves Q-AANA

As long as they get away with it they will keep doing it. I don't expect the courts to do much to change it either.

 

[coffeebythelake]

the thing is, this message from crna’s is fraud. So how come they aren’t yet throwing CRNAs in jail for misrepresenting themselves?

I dont know about "throwing in jail", but I would like to see this litigated. Same with CRNAs calling themselves anesthesiologists and doctors to hide their true credentials and training. CRNA claims to be equivalent to much higher educated and trained physician, despite midlevel nurses having poorer outcomes, and lower standards for liability and malpractice. AANA should be held liable for these fraudulent statements.

 

[The kitchen sink]

I dont know about "throwing in jail", but I would like to see this litigated. Same with CRNAs calling themselves anesthesiologists and doctors to hide their true credentials and training. CRNA claims to be equivalent to much higher educated and trained physician, despite midlevel nurses having poorer outcomes, and lower standards for liability and malpractice. AANA should be held liable for these fraudulent statements.

Exactly this

 

[Arch Guillotti]

That is the thing about "agendas" and "bias" you fail to see your own. I don't want to escalate this thread to be about politics but just look at the border crisis as an example. One party fails to see anything wrong with the policy at the border despite the facts to the contrary. This Bias and desire to make what is clearly false become true exists across the spectrum. The AANA is simply capitalizing on the climate of making falsehoods become facts.

This is a big change from just 2008 when facts still mattered.

Blade. The border and immigration is a disaster. I think a lot of us aren’t all that far apart on the issue. The parties have demonized both sides of the issue and each taken extreme positions. Compare the immigration rhetoric today coming the Republicans to the policy of Reagan and tell me what you think.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Blade. The border and immigration is a disaster. I think a lot of us aren’t all that far apart on the issue. The parties have demonized both sides of the issue and each taken extreme positions. Compare the immigration rhetoric today coming the Republicans to the policy of Reagan and tell me what you think.

I am just saying things are really out of hand today. Political extremes are much more common and falsehoods (definitely on both sides) are talked about like facts or truths. The AANA has capitalized on this environment to promote its equivalency agenda.

Nurse Anesthesiologist
Doctor of Nurse Anesthesiology
Equal or now superior Training

This is all part of the master plan to take over the field completely so it becomes the domain of Nursing. We will be allowed to practice but only as Physician Anesthesiologists in a Nursing field with nursing level reimbursement by the single payer system. The AANA is playing the long game and they are winning.

I have said it before and I will say it again this field is reimbursed at the level of a APN by CMS; the CRNA is reimbursed by CMS the same as a Physician Anesthesiologist whether supervised, solo or QZ. It doesn't matter as the field is the lowest paid by CMS of any specialty. What keeps it afloat is the private rate which is 4 X Medicare, often 5-6 X Medicare, at many large practices. Those days are numbered as the nation moves towards single payer.
The only provider which can flourish, not just survive, at CMS rates is the CRNA.

 

[Endee]

I am just saying things are really out of hand today. Political extremes are much more common and falsehoods (definitely on both sides) are talked about like facts or truths. The AANA has capitalized on this environment to promote its equivalency agenda.

Nurse Anesthesiologist
Doctor of Nurse Anesthesiology
Equal or now superior Training

This is all part of the master plan to take over the field completely so it becomes the domain of Nursing. We will be allowed to practice but only as Physician Anesthesiologists in a Nursing field with nursing level reimbursement by the single payer system. The AANA is playing the long game and they are winning.

I have said it before and I will say it again this field is reimbursed at the level of a APN by CMS; the CRNA is reimbursed by CMS the same as a Physician Anesthesiologist whether supervised, solo or QZ. It doesn't matter as the field is the lowest paid by CMS of any specialty. What keeps it afloat is the private rate which is 4 X Medicare, often 5-6 X Medicare, at many large practices. Those days are numbered as the nation moves towards single payer.
The only provider which can flourish, not just survive, at CMS rates is the CRNA.

Still recommend avoiding anesthesiology to medical students and residents, @BLADEMDA ? I imagine many fields will be susceptible to NP/PA encroachment + single payer/insurance risks. Including many on your old list of specialties that you recommended over Anesthesiology.

 

[nimbus]

Didn’t Kamala say “Do not come!”

 

[coffeebythelake]

The only provider which can flourish, not just survive, at CMS rates is the CRNA.

But CRNAs aren't going to want to work at CMS rates either. That's a huge pay cut from what they are getting paid now (which is not that different from an actual anesthesiologist). What you are describing is not the AANA long game.

 

[deleted941485]

But CRNAs aren't going to want to work at CMS rates either. That's a huge pay cut from what they are getting paid now (which is not that different from an actual anesthesiologist). What you are describing is not the AANA long game.

But they’re healthcare heros!! Remember.

 

[The kitchen sink]

But CRNAs aren't going to want to work at CMS rates either. That's a huge pay cut from what they are getting paid now (which is not that different from an actual anesthesiologist). What you are describing is not the AANA long game.

Then what is the aana long game?

 

[GassYous]

I am just saying things are really out of hand today. Political extremes are much more common and falsehoods (definitely on both sides) are talked about like facts or truths. The AANA has capitalized on this environment to promote its equivalency agenda.

Nurse Anesthesiologist
Doctor of Nurse Anesthesiology
Equal or now superior Training

This is all part of the master plan to take over the field completely so it becomes the domain of Nursing. We will be allowed to practice but only as Physician Anesthesiologists in a Nursing field with nursing level reimbursement by the single payer system. The AANA is playing the long game and they are winning.

I have said it before and I will say it again this field is reimbursed at the level of a APN by CMS; the CRNA is reimbursed by CMS the same as a Physician Anesthesiologist whether supervised, solo or QZ. It doesn't matter as the field is the lowest paid by CMS of any specialty. What keeps it afloat is the private rate which is 4 X Medicare, often 5-6 X Medicare, at many large practices. Those days are numbered as the nation moves towards single payer.
The only provider which can flourish, not just survive, at CMS rates is the CRNA.

This reminds me of the old blade back when the forums were young

 

[Iso4ane]

Wait their undergraduate degree counts, but mine doesn't? I use my basic college knowledge all the damn time in anesthesia.

 

[ambiturner]

I am just saying things are really out of hand today. Political extremes are much more common and falsehoods (definitely on both sides) are talked about like facts or truths. The AANA has capitalized on this environment to promote its equivalency agenda.

Nurse Anesthesiologist
Doctor of Nurse Anesthesiology
Equal or now superior Training

This is all part of the master plan to take over the field completely so it becomes the domain of Nursing. We will be allowed to practice but only as Physician Anesthesiologists in a Nursing field with nursing level reimbursement by the single payer system. The AANA is playing the long game and they are winning.

I have said it before and I will say it again this field is reimbursed at the level of a APN by CMS; the CRNA is reimbursed by CMS the same as a Physician Anesthesiologist whether supervised, solo or QZ. It doesn't matter as the field is the lowest paid by CMS of any specialty. What keeps it afloat is the private rate which is 4 X Medicare, often 5-6 X Medicare, at many large practices. Those days are numbered as the nation moves towards single payer.
The only provider which can flourish, not just survive, at CMS rates is the CRNA.

I’m curious why you think CRNAs are better able to survive, let alone flourish, at CMS rates? An hour of time units at Medicare rates is under $100. If CRNAs are currently getting 150-200/hr then everyone, including CRNAs, are taking a pay cut in single payor without big subsidies. Maybe their cut isn’t as big but it’s still a cut, and they’re already accustomed to a lower salary, but there’s simply no way MFA doesn’t affect us all.

 

[coffeebythelake]

Then what is the aana long game?

The AANA has a multi-pronged strategy. Traditionally they have made the following claims:

* AANA convey that CRNAs are as good as anesthesiologists, with the "same training and education" and the "same outcomes". They do this with propaganda posts (refer to above) and AANA funded research that they claim show no difference.

* AANA say because they are nurses they care more than doctors. Midlevel nursing riding the public sentiment of traditional bedside nursing.

* AANA say they take care of rural population that doctors refuse to. They conveniently left out the fact that most CRNAs work in urban and suburban areas, and that flawed rural bypass legislation which incentivize midlevels to work in rural areas while not offering the same benefit to physicians.

* AANA say anesthesiologists and ACT model cost more than having solo providers. This is absolutely false. Billing to the patient is exactly the same no matter what model is used, for inferior care. The only one potentially saving money (aka making more profits) is the hospital system or private equity groups that hire the CRNAs.

* AANA say they are a solution to a critical shortage of anesthesia providers. Yet they fight to prevent legislation to allow AA's to work in more states because they want to protect their turf as midlevel providers.

When all else false, AANA has shifted their strategy in recent years. Now they want to

* AANA and nursing organizations upgrade their CRNA degree from Masters-level to Doctorate-level without any real difference in clinical training. You know the reason why. They have driven a campaign to say there is nothing wrong for a nurse to call themselves a doctor in front of patients, because "doctor doesn't mean physician", that "MDs don't own the term doctor", and the "doctorate is a terminal degree and they earned it"

* AANA changing their name to "nurse anesthesiology" and encouraging their members to call themselves "nurse anesthesiologists", which will ultimately be shorted to just calling themselves anesthesiologists.

So now they call themselves "DOCTOR" and "(nurse) ANESTHESIOLOGIST". We've already seen plenty of CRNA-tools doing this already, like the fools at "Lifeguard Anesthesia"

Who are they fooling?

They aren't fooling the medical staff that they work with.
They aren't fooling nurses, respiratory therapists, and other healthcare workers in the hospital
Maybe they are fooling themselves? Or maybe they are ashamed or embarrassed to be nurses?
But most definitely they are fooling the public and legislators, to push their agenda.

What is the agenda? Ultimately?
1. Boost their ego
2. Use titles that make themselves indistinguishable from physicians to the lay public
3. Perhaps improve their negotiation power to make more money

I can tell you with absolute certainty that the AANA isn't doing this for less money. These CRNAs aren't going to go for CMS rates. They will fight tooth and nail against that.

 

[nimbus]

Wait their undergraduate degree counts, but mine doesn't? I use my basic college knowledge all the damn time in anesthesia.

To be fair, we did have a few philosophy, theater, vocal performance, and engineering majors in my class in medical school.

 

[coffeebythelake]

To be fair, we did have a few philosophy, theater, vocal performance, and engineering majors in my class in medical school.

Maybe midlevel nursing education should have more courses on ethics and how not to misrepresent themselves to vulnerable patients

 

[Iso4ane]

Maybe midlevel nursing education should have more courses on ethics and how not to misrepresent themselves to vulnerable patients

Even they took ethics, since they believe that are equal, they would not have any ethical dilemmas.

 

[anbuitachi]

the problem is ASA is trying to play by the rules to defend against an organization that doesnt play by the rules, and is willing to go to any length to win. i dont see how we will win

why anesthesiologists trying to do legitimate studies on showing difference in outcome between crna vs anesthesiologist... AANA probably churning out 'papers' of whatever quality to justify their cause. who will the average public believe when they see 50 BS papers showing crna is >= anesthesiologist vs 2 otherwise. they dont know how to judge

 

[BLADEMDA]

FAQ — Lifeguard Anesthesia

www.lifeguardanesthesia.surgery

 

[Iso4ane]

why anesthesiologists trying to do legitimate studies on showing difference in outcome between crna vs anesthesiologist... AANA probably churning out 'papers' of whatever quality to justify their cause. who will the average public believe when they see 50 BS papers showing crna is >= anesthesiologist vs 2 otherwise. they dont know how to judge

The funny thing is the public nor CRNAs (or maybe some CRNAs do and use it to their advantage) see how it would be unethical for an anesthesiologist to perform a prospective study as compared to vs a CRNA.

Our starting premise is different. Anesthesiologists believe CRNAs are inferior, it would be unethical for you to knowingly give a patient non-standard inferior treatment.

However, since CRNAs believe they are non-inferior/equivalent, they don’t run into the ethical dilemma.

 

[Planktonmd]

Because our entire society has become tolerant of fraud and misrepresentation from the top on down. What is obviously false becomes true based on the political agenda of the organization or party.

Sometimes you say brilliant things!

 

[ryanjmy]

We should help the ANAA distribute this document. They have over played their hand. Claiming equivalency between a nursing degree and a Medical Doctorate is not only offensive to anesthesiologist but every MD. It's ultimately doctors that grant privileges. If they are so willing to overestimate their education why wouldn't they do the same with other qualifications?

 

[ans2021]

This is all anyone needs to know whether crnas get as much education as doctors. Met these numbers after 1 year of training.

 

[IMGASMD]

This is all anyone needs to know whether crnas get as much education as doctors. Met these numbers after 1 year of training.


View attachment 348365

I went down the rabbit hole a little. The number that should be compared is the total clinical hours…. 2000.
Some will say that’s the minimum, most exceed that. But look into how they define clinical hours, it’s not “anesthesia time”. On call experience count, (if I read it correctly). Either way, 2000 hours, most if not all CA-1s will have those numbers.

 

[The kitchen sink]

We should help the ANAA distribute this document. They have over played their hand. Claiming equivalency between a nursing degree and a Medical Doctorate is not only offensive to anesthesiologist but every MD. It's ultimately doctors that grant privileges. If they are so willing to overestimate their education why wouldn't they do the same with other qualifications?

Give it to every department chair

 

[nimbus]

Again we are allowing the AANA to drive the narrative by even discussing that ridiculous poster.

 

[OptionOffense]

falseness is just from the republicans because they love guns and in general they want to kill everyone who doesnt look like them

You cant honestly believe that, do you?

 

[OptionOffense]

the problem is ASA is trying to play by the rules to defend against an organization that doesnt play by the rules, and is willing to go to any length to win. i dont see how we will win

why anesthesiologists trying to do legitimate studies on showing difference in outcome between crna vs anesthesiologist... AANA probably churning out 'papers' of whatever quality to justify their cause. who will the average public believe when they see 50 BS papers showing crna is >= anesthesiologist vs 2 otherwise. they dont know how to judge

I do not understand why we spend so much time refuting and fighting with the AANA. Just advocate heavy for anesthetists(AAs, Anesthesiolgist Assistants) legislation in 50 states. and train them to replace the nurses. DONE. No need to say another word to the CRNAs.

 

[coffeebythelake]

I do not understand why we spend so much time refuting and fighting with the AANA. Just advocate heavy for anesthetists(AAs, Anesthesiolgist Assistants) legislation in 50 states. and train them to replace the nurses. DONE. No need to say another word to the CRNAs.

we need an offshoot political group for anesthesiologists.
not a weak organization like ABA.
we are being trampled by all the propaganda and denigration from the AANA
we need something like AAEM for emergency medicine physicians.

 

[jjm285]

I do not understand why we spend so much time refuting and fighting with the AANA. Just advocate heavy for anesthetists(AAs, Anesthesiolgist Assistants) legislation in 50 states. and train them to replace the nurses. DONE. No need to say another word to the CRNAs.

Being discussed in the state of Washington legislature tomorrow.

 

[OptionOffense]

Being discussed in the state of Washington legislature tomorrow.

let us know how it turns out

 

[Peterluger]

You cant honestly believe that, do you?

Yes I do, because it is a fact, whether you like it or not

 

[BLADEMDA]

Yes I do, because it is a fact, whether you like it or not

So, PGG and I own guns because "we want to kill everyone who doesn't look like us"? Really? I have never wanted to kill anyone with my guns. They are for sport and defensive purposes only. You really discredit the gun control movement with statements like that when the vast majority of gun owners are law-abiding citizens particularly those who carry concealed.

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[BLADEMDA]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/02/03/gun-sales-january-background-checks/

Americans Bought 39 Million Guns Last Year. Here Is Each State's Figure.

A recent analysis reveals that Americans purchased nearly 39 million guns last year, the second-highest total on record.

247wallst.com

Two demographic groups have been partially responsible for the increase. These are women and Black Americans. According to WTHR: “In the first six months of 2021, nearly 87% of gun stores nationwide had an increase in African American women buying firearms,” according to the National Shooting Sports Foundation.

 

[IMGASMD]

View attachment 348412

So those who own guns, really own ~4 guns per person. The rest of the the 70% doesn’t own any.

I don’t hunt or own a gun. So my question is why do you need four guns?

 

[nimbus]

So those who own guns, really own ~4 guns per person. The rest of the the 70% doesn’t own any.

I don’t hunt or own a gun. So my question is why do you need four guns?

I have 2 friends who own 30+ guns. They have 5 gun lockers. It’s their passion (like guitars). Most of my friends don’t own any guns.

 

[IMGASMD]

I have 2 friends who own 30+ guns. They have 5 gun lockers. It’s their passion (like guitars). Most of my friends don’t own any guns.

I like to collect pens. I guess I don’t need a justification, so I don’t ever really think about it.

My question out loud to blade was a question and maybe a comment. Why does the gun owners need one? It’s for hunting and/or most people especially those who carry concealed weapon are law abiding for protection. Is to shush the left or owning 4+ guns is beyond hunting/protection?

I love sdn. From bashing aana to gun ownership in less than 40 posts.

 

[GassYous]

I have 2 friends who own 30+ guns. They have 5 gun lockers. It’s their passion (like guitars). Most of my friends don’t own any guns.

Yeah my uncle has 2 lockers and like 20 guns

 

[BLADEMDA]

I like to collect pens. I guess I don’t need a justification, so I don’t ever really think about it.

My question out loud to blade was a question and maybe a comment. Why does the gun owners need one? It’s for hunting and/or most people especially those who carry concealed weapon are law abiding for protection. Is to shush the left or owning 4+ guns is beyond hunting/protection?

I love sdn. From bashing aana to gun ownership in less than 40 posts.

This thread isn't about guns or gun ownership. But, for a poster to bash the AANA about misinformation, propaganda and lies then to do the exact same thing about gun owners deserved a response. My ownership of guns has nothing to do with the left. Because you like to collect pens and others like to collect guns doesn't make one right and the other wrong.

 

[Endee]

Guns aren't intrinsically wrong just like any other machine, tool, or instrument. We have and operate all manners of dangerous devices in everyday life that no one bats an eye at. With those devices, most people generally take risk reduction measures to avoid accidents, but sometimes accidents still happen. And a small subset of the population will use those devices in the act of hurting another person. That applies to stoves and ovens, frying pans, electric hair straighteners, hammers, 18V cordless drills, pens, knives, scalpels, rope, phone charging cords, baseball bats, or guns.