Missing a science LOR?

[bravofleet4]

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Hey,

I'm kind of freaking out right now. I know that they said we should have two science LOR's and 1 in the humanities. I assumed (incorrectly?) that a letter from my research supervisor would be able to meet those requirements. However, looking at the school specific thread I can see that Temple wants 2 letters of rec from science faculty under which I took classes. Unfortunately, I've always had a difficult time getting to know my professors especially in my last two years because usually there were scheduling conflicts. Also all of the classes I took had 400+ students, so when I did go to office hours there were lots of people.

What should I do? Do most schools say that the science LOR can't be from a research professor? I honestly can't think of a professor who would really remember me and can ask a LOR from comfortably. Should I take summer school and kiss ass to find one?

 

[musicaldna]

Hey,

I'm kind of freaking out right now. I know that they said we should have two science LOR's and 1 in the humanities. I assumed (incorrectly?) that a letter from my research supervisor would be able to meet those requirements. However, looking at the school specific thread I can see that Temple wants 2 letters of rec from science faculty under which I took classes. Unfortunately, I've always had a difficult time getting to know my professors especially in my last two years because usually there were scheduling conflicts. Also all of the classes I took had 400+ students, so when I did go to office hours there were lots of people.

What should I do? Do most schools say that the science LOR can't be from a research professor? I honestly can't think of a professor who would really remember me and can ask a LOR from comfortably. Should I take summer school and kiss ass to find one?

So I had a similar problem. I have like 8 LORs but none that really fits the "Science" requirement. So I emailed the schools and asked if I will be fine with what I have.

Some replied positively and some negatively.

However, of those that replied negatively, I think if you go ahead and submit, chances are you will be fine. They may question on why you don't have Science and then you can give your reason.

Some like Boston give you space to write in their secondaries why you don't meet the requirements.

I know they obviously have a reason for these requirements but honeslty I don't buy them. They want opinion from academic experts on the person's qualities and I am providing them that. Why such strict requirements?

 

[bravofleet4]

I've just asked one of my TA's who taught neurobiology labs last quarter. There is no professor lecturing for the class just lab, so there's no one to co-sign. I asked her if she would write a LOR for me and she said she would be very happy to. I know that it's preferred to ask for a professor to co-sign but would it be a TA's LOR be accepted as a letter for science? Or would this just count as another extra LOR?

 

[jzyu]

I was in the same position as you last year. Is your research professor faculty at your school? My research professor was on faculty at the graduate school and not affiliated with the undergrad side of things but it turned out ok as I got many interviews using the LOR he wrote for me. His was one of the 2 "science" letters i had (3 letters total). I also contacted a few schools specifically about this issue and they said it was fine.

chill out. chances are you're gonna be ok too.

 

[MedAdComMD]

At my school we also require 2 LOR from science FACULTY, but we also take LORs from principle investigators as they are almost always associated with a science department

 

[bravofleet4]

Yes, he is part of the teaching faculty and actually teaches one of the classes I took but I didn't take it with him. After some investigation I realize now that some schools will accept a research letter as science but others seem specific that it cannot come from a PI. They specify faculty who you've taken a class under. My second question remains unanswered, though, which is do TA's count?

Thank you, though, medad and jzyu for your comments. I definitely feel a little more relaxed. I just don't want to have an incomplete file with any of the schools that prevents me from even being considered. I applied to 25 and while I feel comfortable with that number, that's only if I have a shot at all of them and not automatically excluded from every 1 or a few because of a technicality.

 

[musicaldna]

Yes, he is part of the teaching faculty and actually teaches one of the classes I took but I didn't take it with him. After some investigation I realize now that some schools will accept a research letter as science but others seem specific that it cannot come from a PI. They specify faculty who you've taken a class under. My second question remains unanswered, though, which is do TA's count?

Thank you, though, medad and jzyu for your comments. I definitely feel a little more relaxed. I just don't want to have an incomplete file with any of the schools that prevents me from even being considered. I applied to 25 and while I feel comfortable with that number, that's only if I have a shot at all of them and not automatically excluded from every 1 or a few because of a technicality.

But that's just one school right? Did you check with others? Most require 2 science LORs and some don't even need a letter from graduate studies.

I have one science but hoping that 3 other engineering ones will substitute for the other science/non-science.

 

[zayka]

From the schools that I am applying to (you can click), Johns Hopkins and Vanderbilt are adamant about science professors you took classes with. (Science faculty you did research with = not okay). All the other ones are fine with a research supervisor, especially given that he/she would know you better. My research supervisor doesn't even teach undergrad (med students and residents) and the other (18.. eek!) schools are fine with it.

TA's definitely do not count.

If you can find a science prof asap, that would probably be good. Would only help, right? Extra letter to make them "happy". You might try just e-mailing profs with whom you took a class that was particularly special for you (e.g., it was very challenging, but you did well; really cool labs you loved) and tell them, and some should agree to write for you.

 

[johncalvin]

...

TA's definitely do not count.

....

I wouldn't be so quick to discount TA letters. Taking a science course at many large state schools sometimes means you will only interact with TAs.

Also, some schools seem to use undergrad TA's (which will not count); however, if your TA is a PhD candidate, or even a post-doc, it should be fine to fulfill *at most* 1 of the 2 required faculty letters. Good luck.

 

[zayka]

I wouldn't be so quick to discount TA letters. Taking a science course at many large state schools sometimes means you will only interact with TAs.

Also, some schools seem to use undergrad TA's (which will not count); however, if your TA is a PhD candidate, or even a post-doc, it should be fine to fulfill *at most* 1 of the 2 required faculty letters. Good luck.

I think in that case, it would probably be best to call and ask, but I think that if you do want to have a TA write a letter, most schools (at least as far as I looked) require it to be also co-signed by a prof.

 

[Powerplant]

If I have a letter from a math professor, does it count as science or non-science?

 

[ensuii]

The school that I'm attending in the fall required 2 science LORs and 1 humanities. Since I was an Econ major at a pre-med factory, I had a really hard time getting good letters from profs that knew me well so instead of submitting 2 science letters, I sent in 2 letters of physicians that I had worked with. My LORs were brought up in the interview but there weren't any questions about why they weren't from "science faculty" specifically. I think however, I was probably lucky to get away with it. If I were you, I would meet with the professor and give them the deal straight out since they're probably used to getting requests. Usually, at my undergrad, it was a norm for professors to have students write their own letters and then sign it themselves. The worst that can happen is that the prof was say no and you'll remain in your current position.

 

[bravofleet4]

Thank you all for the advice.

As it turns out, I decided to ask one of my old physics professors from my junior year for a LOR. It was a complete shot in the dark. Even though I never went to his office hours or spoke to him after class, I told him that how much I appreciated his testing style and that I was one of his top students despite the difficulty. He replied that he would be happy to, so I'm expected to meet up and talk with him after he gets back from his conference.

 

[JustinG]

Will some schools throw out your application if you're missing a Science LOR? Getting a science LOR might be hard especially for non-sci majors. What happens if we have 2 great non-sci LORs + 1 sci instead?

 

[Evergrey]

If I have a letter from a math professor, does it count as science or non-science?

AFAIK, non-science.

 

[bashir]

If I have a letter from a math professor, does it count as science or non-science?

I have to disagree with Evergrey. I can't imagine why a math professor wouldn't be classified as a science professor. What else would they be? Social Science? Humanities?

 

[bravofleet4]

Will some schools throw out your application if you're missing a Science LOR? Getting a science LOR might be hard especially for non-sci majors. What happens if we have 2 great non-sci LORs + 1 sci instead?

Interesting to see an old thread of mine resurrected. I know the answer now, so I'll reply in the hopes you'll read this and benefit from my experience.

You must first understand that the med school app process is entirely automated up to a point. It may be natural to think that there are people who browse through the files noting any discretions and taking in consideration special circumstances. After all, you've worked so hard, so you think that you deserve at least a look over. However, that's not true. Until a school receives the minimum requirement of LOR's, your file will not be complete, so no one will look at it. You can have the most amazing stats and EC's but already be out of the running b/c you do not meet the requirements.

If that seems burdensome, then you should know that all pre-med's have to go through it. It's just something that has to be done. That's the hard truth.

 

[Evergrey]

I have to disagree with Evergrey. I can't imagine why a math professor wouldn't be classified as a science professor. What else would they be? Social Science? Humanities?

Math is in the Humanities division at my school 😛 It's kind of borderline though, could go either way.

 

[JustinG]

Interesting to see an old thread of mine resurrected. I know the answer now, so I'll reply in the hopes you'll read this and benefit from my experience.

You must first understand that the med school app process is entirely automated up to a point. It may be natural to think that there are people who browse through the files noting any discretions and taking in consideration special circumstances. After all, you've worked so hard, so you think that you deserve at least a look over. However, that's not true. Until a school receives the minimum requirement of LOR's, your file will not be complete, so no one will look at it. You can have the most amazing stats and EC's but already be out of the running b/c you do not meet the requirements.

If that seems burdensome, then you should know that all pre-med's have to go through it. It's just something that has to be done. That's the hard truth.

Wait, I thought you were complete, so how are you coming to this conclusion?

And to the guy asking if math is science, it definitely is, unless if you're taking a poetry class, on math I suppose...

 

[eNVyKillaBeez]

Interesting to see an old thread of mine resurrected. I know the answer now, so I'll reply in the hopes you'll read this and benefit from my experience.

You must first understand that the med school app process is entirely automated up to a point. It may be natural to think that there are people who browse through the files noting any discretions and taking in consideration special circumstances. After all, you've worked so hard, so you think that you deserve at least a look over. However, that's not true. Until a school receives the minimum requirement of LOR's, your file will not be complete, so no one will look at it. You can have the most amazing stats and EC's but already be out of the running b/c you do not meet the requirements.

If that seems burdensome, then you should know that all pre-med's have to go through it. It's just something that has to be done. That's the hard truth.

I had 2 science letters, one of which was from my PI, and no non-science letter in this application cycle. I did have a physician letter though from a doc I worked for. Most of the schools I applied to had the standard 2 science and 1 non-science letter requirements. I called them and asked if a physician letter I had written for me could be substituted for a non-science letter and if my research letter could be substitued for one science letter. I think all but 2 schools said that was fine. I was accepted at one of the schools that required 2 sci, 1 non-sci. I think it really just depends on the school and the letter that would be replacing their "required" letters. I recommend calling each school your interested in applying to and asking if alternate letters are acceptable.