Missing statistics on COVID-19?

[Old Timer]

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Just keep on ignoring me. What you stated are too obvious of facts i feel stupid taking time reading it. Ill take an article on NEJM way more seriously than some random person on a blog ranting about everyone not being aligned with his agenda. I mean, are you a virologist or an epidemiologist that worked on covid19? Or are you working on a paper on covid19? What is your credential or where is you evidence to disprove Fauci’s report? How Can you so adamantly state all those things when clearly there are reports and journal articles reporting otherwise?

Overwhelm healthcare system? Hospitals are laying off employees. Hospitals are empty. My wife works at the biggest hospital in the state. The med school and the entire hospital is empty. Other than new york, where are we seeing such a problem? Most states hit peak in its spread weeks after social distancing began.

Dying at home? Wtf? So youre saying there are so many people just dying at home that are not being reported to a point where if they were reported it will actually make a difference in the death rate?! You actually think, in this country that could pump out 3 trillion dollars after purposely crashing its own economy, there are so many people just dying at home without anyone knowing? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok.

Again, im sure i am wrong. Just ignore me. Im sure there are millions of people dying everywhere and we will all die from this virus. No vaccines. No treatment.

You better hide yo kid, yo wife and yo dog.

You graduated from a pharmacy school? You do understand nothing. Hospitals are not laying off people because they are empty. They are laying off people because they can no longer perform the kind of procedures that generate the most amount of income. Why? Because they are using all of their resources to fight this pandemic. Increasing ICU beds, increasing ventilator use, paying increased prices for PPE. Back to ignore for you. You are a troll What you know would be lost in a thimble.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

You graduated from a pharmacy school? You do understand nothing. Hospitals are not laying off people because they are empty. They are laying off people because they can no longer perform the kind of procedures that generate the most amount of income. Why? Because they are using all of their resources to fight this pandemic. Increasing ICU beds, increasing ventilator use, paying increased prices for PPE. Back to ignore for you. You are a troll What you know would be lost in a thimble.

No theyre not. Theyre laying off people because theyre empty. Go check nurse/PA forums. All theyre talking about is how their hospital is empty and theyre being furloughed or laid off. Theyre not able to perform the procedures because government told them not. Not because theyre so busy treating covid patients. Lol what are you smoking? Youre claiming all the hospitals are focusing so much on covid patients that they cant treat others? Lol Sure, at first when everyone was panicking over this, but what hospital besides some in New York and some other few hotspots are so overwhelmed that it's justifying laying people off due to covid19 now?

PAs who have been furloughed

Ok I know it’s tough on the frontlines. But last night my corporate office furloughed 260 providers and all support staff. I don’t even know what to think.

www.physicianassistantforum.com

Read what PAs are saying about this furlough situation.

Any hospital employees get laid off?

Hey all. Hope all is well during these terrible times. I can’t imagine that with hospitals closing our doors and procedures to patients that they can continue to Keep employees on salary while Having essentially no productivity. Has anyone gotten into any issues or gotten laid off?

forums.studentdoctor.net

No one is complaining about overwhelming covid19 cases.

Government imposed lockdown and hospitals had to stop certain procedures. Why would my ENT doctor postpone my appointment? So he can help treat covid patients?! or they could use the otolaryngology department to take in covid19 patients? I just had a teleconference with him. He said hes bored out of his mind in his office. I guess he didnt get your message.

News outlets look like they're following a certain protocol to write their stories and all of them start with "blah blah blah.... overwhelming covid19 blah blah blah that's why they're laying off...." which makes no sense. Just a click bait and more fear mongering.

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Look at the numbers. Other than NY and NJ, which are essentially the same place, what state is having overwhelming death rate? You're claiming Texas cannot handle 700 extra dead people? Remember this is not counting all those that die at home as you mentioned. And the infected rate is also not counting those who don't get tested which will bring down the death rate.

Lastly, when you keep on insulting while making your argument, it weakens your argument. Let alone, you just sound like youre throwing a tantrum at this point. Calling me names does not change the fact thay youre just screaming with no real evidence.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

You graduated from a pharmacy school? You do understand nothing. Hospitals are not laying off people because they are empty. They are laying off people because they can no longer perform the kind of procedures that generate the most amount of income. Why? Because they are using all of their resources to fight this pandemic. Increasing ICU beds, increasing ventilator use, paying increased prices for PPE. Back to ignore for you. You are a troll What you know would be lost in a thimble.

Btw, how many people are actually just dying at home from this?

 

[TheBlaah]

Any evidence that rest of the country is recording death differently than Illinois?
Why does it matter how long the clip is? Did you see the longer clip of this? Does it say anything different? So youre admitting that it is okay for state of Illinois to record covid19 death the way she describes it?

Again, you did not have the conversation with my friend. Let it go. No matter how much you argue, it wont change the fact that she found your your zeal strange. Yes, i showed her what you wrote lol I did not misinterpret anything.

Not sure what you are trying to argue against at this point. So, 0.1% death rate that Fauci is comparing to is wrong? Or that covid19 does not have 0.1% death rate? You do not have to reiterate those number since clearly im the one who posted it and i read the article.

Since youre taking things out of context to make your argument, let me correct you. Facuci states, “severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968)”. Notice how he said “or” right after he said SEASONAL FLU? So, we shut down the economy and made millions of people lose their jobs from possible 0.1% death rate or the seasonal flu huh? And you are okay with that? Well, okay then i guess thats your argument and good for you.

If youre just gonna keep on twisting what I said instead of making a real convincing argument... eh go ahead lol it’s entertaining actually.

I don't really feel the need to list every state and how they record it differently. You're the one who brought in useless information. It's apparent you didn't listen to the whole conference and only looked for whatever clip may have supported your own rhetoric at the time.

If you didn't misinterpret anything, it just means she was wrong and didn't know what she was talking about. Funny you should mention zeal, since you're the one making all these long lengthy posts about the coronavirus when you don't seem to work with it in hardly any capacity. Really, how many posts have you made now.

It was Dr. Fauci who voiced support for the stay at home orders. Why wouldn't we listen to him as opposed to "some random person on a blog ranting about everyone not being aligned with his agenda. I mean, are you a virologist or an epidemiologist that worked on covid19?"

On that note of zeal, it's almost like talking to flat-earther or an anti-vaxxer with you. So decidedly ignorant and entrenched in their own opinion it's become obvious you're incapable of seeing things for the way they are because of your insecurity. It's pretty much pointless talking to you, so I'll be placing you in ignore as well.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I don't really feel the need to list every state and how they record it differently. You're the one who brought in useless information. It's apparent you didn't listen to the whole conference and only looked for whatever clip may have supported your own rhetoric at the time.

If you didn't misinterpret anything, it just means she was wrong and didn't know what she was talking about. Funny you should mention zeal, since you're the one making all these long lengthy posts about the coronavirus when you don't seem to work with it in hardly any capacity. Really, how many posts have you made now.

It was Dr. Fauci who voiced support for the stay at home orders. Why wouldn't we listen to him as opposed to "some random person on a blog ranting about everyone not being aligned with his agenda. I mean, are you a virologist or an epidemiologist that worked on covid19?"

On that note of zeal, it's almost like talking to flat-earther or an anti-vaxxer with you. So decidedly ignorant and entrenched in their own opinion it's become obvious you're incapable of seeing things for the way they are because of your insecurity. It's pretty much pointless talking to you, so I'll be placing you in ignore as well.

You're right. Why are you even responding to my posts? Go on about your day and don't deal with people like me. =) Clearly, you are so much more intelligent and superior than I am, I don't know why you're so upset about the information I am posting.... lol

Anti-vaxxer? I am an anti-vaxxer? says who? your mom?

 

[TheBlaah]

Hospitals are not laying off people because they are empty. They are laying off people because they can no longer perform the kind of procedures that generate the most amount of income. Why? Because they are using all of their resources to fight this pandemic. Increasing ICU beds, increasing ventilator use, paying increased prices for PPE. Back to ignore for you. You are a troll What you know would be lost in a thimble.

That's basically what happened at our hospital. Elective surgery staff rearranged somewhere else. ICU beds increased from ~25 to ~35 and a few locum doctors/nurses to staff it. Ended up using 32 of those beds during the covid peak.

 

[gyngyn]

I advise both of you to place the other on "ignore."

 

[M0df]

For someone with superior argumentative skills, a lot of lols and hahas accompany these posts. It is very amusing to see tips for Old Timer on how to argue better when it is accompanied by U.S. printed extra 3 trillion dollars thus, people are not dying in their homes. Troll on.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

For someone with superior argumentative skills, a lot of lols and hahas accompany these posts. It is very amusing to see tips for Old Timer on how to argue better when it is accompanied by U.S. printed extra 3 trillion dollars thus, people are not dying in their homes. Troll on.

Yet, that doesn't change the fact that he said there are people dying from covid19 in their own home and unaccounted for. Does that mean you actually also believe there are enough people dying at home that are unaccounted for, if we count them the death rate will actually change? This sounds like something that would happen in a third world country who's GDP probably doesn't exceed $1 trillion. We live a country that can lend trillions of dollars after purposely crashing the economy hence making us economically very powerful country. It is highly unlikely that in a country as advanced as ours, we have so many dead that we don't know about. no? how is that trolling? it's a legitimate question.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

That being said, in a twisted Machiavellian sense, I do enjoy that some of y'all are upset about this without even fact checking any of my posts.

 

[M0df]

They can print as much money as they want. Stimulus money has nothing to do with death rate at home or in the hospital. I agree that in theory most advanced country in the world should have capacity to handle these issues.

No one is upset. You didn't rush to buy toilet paper. Like a boss, you refused to wear a mask because it is not mandatory. You are about to go check out latest movie in the theater and go to gym afterwards because it is just like the flu and all this is a hoax. We got you man.

 

[owlegrad]

Victory your posts are so weird. There is nothing about being a first world country that prevents people from dying in their homes. Do you think we don’t have people dying in their homes and going undiscovered for lengths of time even without COVID? We absolutely do.

 

[wagrxm2000]

The statistics I don't often see are how many people come off ventilators with minimal damage. How many of the severe cases recover completely? What does recovery look like for most people? Reports of possibly permanent decreased lung function and kidney damage are not reassuring.

I have some concern that ventilators may not be helpful for the majority of patients based on the few stats I've seen. If many patients can't come off the ventilators without major damage, is it truly worth ventilating patients? Ventilation is so invasive; do we want to be ventilating people who are likely to die anyway or have major organ damage? That seems like a truly bad death. I really wonder if ventilators are actually helpful for ARDS caused by Covid-19. I hope to see more stats on this, because ventilating somebody with no hope of recovery seems a lot like torture, and nobody wants that for patients.

New York now reports 90% die.

 

[deleted562805]

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387

This one?

Brad Pitt had it right the whole time haha

Yes

 

[Old Timer]

You really think this is a statistical anomaly? This shows many countries with their average death rate for January-April for the last 5 years compared to 2020? What could be causing the increase. And before you ask. The number is higher than the average+reported deaths from Covid-19. Could it be every country is conspiring to hide the deaths or is it there are a great number of deaths that are clearly from Covid-19 and not being properly attribited?

 

[Old Timer]

Interesting, no new China cases.

What will be more interesting is if we surpass China in deaths

We already have: No matter hiw much China has under-reported......

 

[wagrxm2000]

We already have: No matter hiw much China has under-reported......
View attachment 304519

I think that was a very old post.

Also there is zero chance China is only have 50 new cases a day.

Their deaths are definitely over 100k

 

[PharmtoCS]

I think that was a very old post.

Also there is zero chance China is only have 50 new cases a day.

Their deaths are definitely over 100k

Source?

 

[TheBlaah]

I think that was a very old post.

Also there is zero chance China is only have 50 new cases a day.

Their deaths are definitely over 100k

While I think China's underreporting, I would hazard a guess that their deaths are less than the United States (less than 100k in other words).

They literally had soldiers with guns stationed outside houses to ensure people didn't leave their homes or the city. They probably had people dying from the quarantine measures they took.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Source?

Any news outlet?

 

[BMBiology]

Any news outlet?

That is such a b*tch way out of not providing source.

 

[wagrxm2000]

That is such a b*tch way out of not providing source.

So you believe them?

Here's a Time article. You can find a bunch of these.

Can We Believe Any of China’s Coronavirus Numbers?

On Wednesday, China changed how it counts COVID-19 cases for the eighth time.

time.com

This was a month so

Just 7 funeral homes pumping out 500 urns a day.

 

[M0df]

Why stop at 100k. Maybe it is 1 million.

Of course I don't believe them but they have plenty of leaks coming from WeChat and 100k is not one of them.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Why stop at 100k. Maybe it is 1 million.

Of course I don't believe them but they have plenty of leaks coming from WeChat and 100k is not one of them.

What's that number say?

I really don't care what China claims. I got an old post brought back so I responded.

It's just my opinion they are lying.

 

[lane one]

You graduated from a pharmacy school? You do understand nothing. Hospitals are not laying off people because they are empty. They are laying off people because they can no longer perform the kind of procedures that generate the most amount of income. Why? Because they are using all of their resources to fight this pandemic. Increasing ICU beds, increasing ventilator use, paying increased prices for PPE. Back to ignore for you. You are a troll What you know would be lost in a thimble.

Do you work in a hospital?

I do.

You're generalizing, and things are not the same everywhere. Here's what is happening at our 1000 bed hospital. We are half full. Entire units are closed because there are no patients to fill them. Resources are not just being "shifted to CoVID". Workers being sent home, furloughed and having shifts simply cancelled because there are no elective surgical cases.

I'm not taking sides in your argument, just presenting facts from an actual urban hospital.

That's basically what happened at our hospital. Elective surgery staff rearranged somewhere else. ICU beds increased from ~25 to ~35 and a few locum doctors/nurses to staff it. Ended up using 32 of those beds during the covid peak.

While we have added some additional ICU capacity, this was done primarily to separate CoVID ICU patients from MICU/SICU patients. The additional capacity is not being utilized from the standpoint of patient volume. Overall our ICU census is lower than average.

 

[M0df]

They said the actual death total is 2-3 times of the reported numbers. I am not sure if it is intentional or incompetence though. We have seen numbers adjusted up across the board. France, UK, China, even NYC did that recently.

 

[Old Timer]

Do you work in a hospital?

I do.

You're generalizing, and things are not the same everywhere. Here's what is happening at our 1000 bed hospital. We are half full. Entire units are closed because there are no patients to fill them. Resources are not just being "shifted to CoVID". Workers being sent home, furloughed and having shifts simply cancelled because there are no elective surgical cases.

I'm not taking sides in your argument, just presenting facts from an actual urban hospital.




While we have added some additional ICU capacity, this was done primarily to separate CoVID ICU patients from MICU/SICU patients. The additional capacity is not being utilized from the standpoint of patient volume. Overall our ICU census is lower than average.

Don't know where you are so I can't comment, but why are you canceling elective surgery if you don't have a Covid problem? No elective surgery cases? No tumor resections or biopsies? No coloscopies? Nothing elective.? DO you live health lala land?

In Philadelphia, the Hospitals have not been overwhelmed, but that are struggling. They do not have the ICU capacity do complex surgery like CABG and valve replacements and things of that sort.

 

[Old Timer]

I think that was a very old post.

Also there is zero chance China is only have 50 new cases a day.

Their deaths are definitely over 100k

I am totally aware they are under reporting. China has acted despicably. But that does not change the fact we are outpacing them. As of 4/1/2020 we had 215,000 cases and 5,000 deaths. Thirty days later we have over 1,000,000 cases and over 60,000 deaths in just

30 FRIGGIN DAYS
​

More people have died of Covid-19 in the last 30 days than died in the Vietnam war. We had warlike casualties in our cities and towns over the last 30 days. It's remarkable to me that a-hole ***** nitwit idiots think this is like seasonal flu. Seasonal flu kills 60,000 in a very bad flu season. This is one month. We wiped out a football stadiums worth of people in 30 days. We did that with a lockdown. Think of what it would be like if we stayed open.
To make matters worse, these 60,000 people died alone. They had no funerals. This is a collosal failing of the United States Government. You can spin this anyway you want. The facts are 60,000 people died in this country in the last month and people say the cure is worse than the disease? I can only say, wow, we are morally bankrupt as a society id people can't give up their pedicures for a month.....

 

[wagrxm2000]

0.018 percent of the population has died, yes let's all freak out.

Yet we have 600k+ abortions per year

20 to 60k flu deaths per year

About 80k alcohol related deaths per year

Shall I go on?

 

[BMBiology]

0.018 percent of the population has died, yes let's all freak out.

Yet we have 600k+ abortions per year

20 to 60k flu deaths per year

About 80k alcohol related deaths per year

Shall I go on?

how many would had died if we didn't do anything?

 

[wagrxm2000]

how many would had died if we didn't do anything?

That's a good question, we'll have to wait to see the official numbers later on before we can see if closing wasn't completely useless.

 

[M0df]

My position on this issue has changed. The execution of the shutdown from top down has been terrible. Six plus weeks into the restrictive measures and we are still at 25-30k cases a day. People are fighting to go to the beach and it will only escalate. We do what we want to do. Lets not pretend anymore. The sad part for me is that if everyone followed through, then the economic shutdown would have felt worth it. Half baked effort produces half baked results. I might as well get some sports on TV. Maybe they will have a fantasy pick them game on who will be out due to COVID on a given week.

 

[owlegrad]

My position on this issue has changed. The execution of the shutdown from top down has been terrible. Six plus weeks into the restrictive measures and we are still at 25-30k cases a day. People are fighting to go to the beach and it will only escalate. We do what we want to do. Lets not pretend anymore. The sad part for me is that if everyone followed through, then the economic shutdown would have felt worth it. Half baked effort produces half baked results. I might as well get some sports on TV. Maybe they will have a fantasy pick them game on who will be out due to COVID on a given week.

Yeah I was initially a ‘skeptic’ but 60k deaths in a month and rising is pretty grim.

 

[wagrxm2000]

You guys do realize if a person doesn't actually try to protect themself, there's nothing the government can do right?

Don't worry though, because after we have a vaccine, no one will even care.

 

[Old Timer]

0.018 percent of the population has died, yes let's all freak out.

Just how many people have to die before we can freak out? Just asking?

20 to 60k flu deaths per year

As opposed to 60,000 in one month. So the average flu season is 4-5 months. So this could kill 4-5 times as many people as the seasonal flu. And that is OK with you?

About 80k alcohol related deaths per year

Again as opposed to to 60,000 in one month?

Shall I go on?

As long as you don't mind looking either totally heartless or you enjoy being a troll? Whatever.

 

[Old Timer]

You guys do realize if a person doesn't actually try to protect themself, there's nothing the government can do right?

Don't worry though, because after we have a vaccine, no one will even care.

That is if we have a vaccine. There has never been a successful vaccine for any corona virus.

The solution to this problem is testing and contact tracing. Do this and we can open right back up.

 

[Old Timer]

My position on this issue has changed. The execution of the shutdown from top down has been terrible. Six plus weeks into the restrictive measures and we are still at 25-30k cases a day. People are fighting to go to the beach and it will only escalate. We do what we want to do. Lets not pretend anymore. The sad part for me is that if everyone followed through, then the economic shutdown would have felt worth it. Half baked effort produces half baked results. I might as well get some sports on TV. Maybe they will have a fantasy pick them game on who will be out due to COVID on a given week.

The hard hit big cites have all hit their peak. It did work. The hospitals are no longer under water and are starting to wind down their excess capacity. The question is where is the next hot spot.

 

[wagrxm2000]

As opposed to 60,000 in one month. So the average flu season is 4-5 months. So this could kill 4-5 times as many people as the seasonal flu. And that is OK with you?



Again as opposed to to 60,000 in one month?



As long as you don't mind looking either totally heartless or you enjoy being a troll? Whatever.

Apparently no one else matters to you except covid19 deaths.

Just remember this in the future when we have 20 to 60k deaths a year "IF" this becomes annual.

I have no clue why no one cares about flu deaths but covid19 deaths are the worst thing ever.

Just how many people have to die before we can freak out? Just asking?

Well what's your answer?

Clearly none of the deaths I mentioned matter to you.

 

[Old Timer]

Apparently no one else matters to you except covid19 deaths.

Just remember this in the future when we have 20 to 60k deaths a year "IF" this becomes annual.

I have no clue why no one cares about flu deaths but covid19 deaths are the worst thing ever.



Well what's your answer?

Clearly none of the deaths I mentioned matter to you.

Nice try. I didn't say they didn't matter to me. If you don't see the scope of this dwarfs those other causes, then a visit to an optometrist or logician is in order. At this rate it would be almost 7000,000 per year.

 

[radio frequency]

New York now reports 90% die.

I can't like this as it's too sad. But that's been a concern for a while in my mind; I wish people knew this statistic better as going on a vent is a crappy way to die.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Nice try. I didn't say they didn't matter to me. If you don't see the scope of this dwarfs those other causes, then a visit to an optometrist or logician is in order. At this rate it would be almost 7000,000 per year.

You think 7 million people are going to die?

Wow

 

[lane one]

Don't know where you are so I can't comment, but why are you canceling elective surgery if you don't have a Covid problem? No elective surgery cases? No tumor resections or biopsies? No coloscopies? Nothing elective.? DO you live health lala land?

In Philadelphia, the Hospitals have not been overwhelmed, but that are struggling. They do not have the ICU capacity do complex surgery like CABG and valve replacements and things of that sort.

- ASCA Connect

Because the surgeon general recommended it to prepare for the tsunami of patients, and 36 state governors (as of 4/20) signed executive orders.

DO you live under a rock?

 

[radio frequency]

Another statistic I haven't seen:
Percentage of pharmacists who are gung ho about coronavirus testing in their own pharmacies.

I see the professional organizations are all pumped to say we can get reimbursed for testing for coronavirus. I can't think of any pharmacists excited to do this, nor are we the profession best suited for this. It doesn't draw on the best of our clinical skill set, and we're comparatively expensive when you compare with RNs. Why are our organizations fighting for this for us?

 

[Old Timer]

- ASCA Connect

Because the surgeon general recommended it to prepare for the tsunami of patients, and 36 state governors (as of 4/20) signed executive orders.

DO you live under a rock?

If your State mandated it, then so be it. I only know what is going on where I am. It's a mess here. NYC is the same and so is New Jersey. BTW, the guidance was should consider. If you had Np Covid patients at your hospital, why would you stop?

 

[lane one]

If your State mandated it, then so be it. I only know what is going on where I am. It's a mess here. NYC is the same and so is New Jersey. BTW, the guidance was should consider. If you had Np Covid patients at your hospital, why would you stop?

No one had a problem with CoVID patients at that time. The whole point was to get ahead of it.

When the top experts told us that NYC would happen in every major city, Governors felt that they would have blood on their hands if they didn't prepare for the wave. Obviously hindsight is 20/20, given the information being provided at the time I would've done the same thing.

My point was that it's now clear (with the exception of certain pockets) that hospitals are experiencing devastating loss of revenue due to making room for the wave that never came.

 

[Old Timer]

No one had a problem with CoVID patients at that time. The whole point was to get ahead of it.

When the top experts told us that NYC would happen in every major city, Governors felt that they would have blood on their hands if they didn't prepare for the wave. Obviously hindsight is 20/20, given the information being provided at the time I would've done the same thing.

My point was that it's now clear (with the exception of certain pockets) that hospitals are experiencing devastating loss of revenue due to making room for the wave that never came.

Sorry that happened to your hospital. I only know what is going on here. The east coast has been decimated. This is especially true for any metropolitan area that has an International Airport that recived flighs from Europe in February. Look at Boston, NYC, North Jersey, Philadelphia, Maryland. The east coast spread is all from Europe instead of China