mixing of races & genetics

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what do you guys think of the interracial marriage's influence on genetic diseases? some diseases/disorders are prevalent among particular races (sickle-cell anemia in african-americans for ex), but how does that come to influence the offspring? does it promote spread of certain diseases or will it diminish the symptoms bc of greater resistance??

just want to clarify: i am not against interracial breeding, just curious what role it will play in the future... :)

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seilienne said:
::hungover:uck & cover::

::flameshield . . .UP!::

i hope you have room for me too behind the shield (even though i made a very clear clarification!) :scared:
 
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It causes a reduction in overall incidence, actually.

Though I'm curious if in 500 years, it causes Huntington's and other trinucleotide expansion diseases to become slightly more common
 
Rendar5 said:
It causes a reduction in overall incidence, actually.

how can you be sure? if the genes are randomly distributed, then i dont understand how it will always be beneficial.

unless you are referring to recessive only.
 
Though for autosomally dominant diseases or conditions (like G6PD), it causes them to neither increase or decrease overall. Rather, it would encourage them to spread so that racial indicators become less useful as predictors. E.g. in 500 years, hispanic might not be a strong indicator of increased diabetic risk.
 
jtank said:
how can you be sure? if the genes are randomly distributed, then i dont understand how it will always be beneficial.

unless you are referring to recessive only.

Yeah, I meant recessive diseases. In-group breeding promotes their appearance, and out-of-group breeding reduces their appearance.

As for the Huntington's stuff, i'm only thinking that inter-racial breedign, widespread at that, over the course of centuries, could promote an expansion in the percent of people w/ high tri-nucleotide counts, since it's spreading out instead of concentrating enough to get the disease. And then once it's universally high enough, there is overall an increased likelihood of a random family line having it appear (since it would then only require one or two more repeat increases to create some penetrance). I'm kinda curious, and if anyone has a strong genetics disease background out there has more info, i'd love to know :) (they don't teach us that much about genetics in school. it's all just the minimal amount of clinical knowledge needed to deal w/ patients and clinical-level journal articles.)
 
What's it called in genetics? Hybrid vigor?
 
I've become used to using computer programming to make predictions in cases like this and what you find is . . . even if you have a condition that is strongly selected against (imagine many aa's dying and AA and Aa being ok . . . or even the opposite . . . AA and Aa dying a lot and aa living) usually you get a persistance of the trait. Usually being the key word. As far as looking far into the future, then Rendar5 is correct, it just means that race will be a poor indicator (how many human generations is 500 years anyway . . . only like 20 or so . . . right?).
 
Dakota said:
I've become used to using computer programming to make predictions in cases like this and what you find is . . . even if you have a condition that is strongly selected against (imagine many aa's dying and AA and Aa being ok . . . or even the opposite . . . AA and Aa dying a lot and aa living) usually you get a persistance of the trait. Usually being the key word. As far as looking far into the future, then Rendar5 is correct, it just means that race will be a poor indicator (how many human generations is 500 years anyway . . . only like 20 or so . . . right?).

i understand what you are saying, but what if the disease-causing genes undergo mutation themselves in the offspring? that would impact the viability of the gene further.
 
all i know is that i'd screw any half-asian with 4 limbs. other body parts entirely optional.
-mota
 
mixing races results in pure hotness.
 
jtank said:
i understand what you are saying, but what if the disease-causing genes undergo mutation themselves in the offspring? that would impact the viability of the gene further.

So I took an undergrad class in "epidemiology and evolution of infectious disease" that, much to my please and surprise, was entirely analytical.

Anyway, once you throw in too many parameters to your model you lose all predictive ability. And that is what your question comes down to. I mean, you could define a parameter that says well the offspring have a genetic dift of factor X that makes them less prone to the disease by factor Y . . . but you would just make the parameters up out of nothing . . . I doubt if enough information is available to fully study your question . . . I know that's terribly unsatisfying . . . perhaps you could be the next great mind in infectious disease to study the effects of interracial marriage on race defined diseases (Tay-Sachs, sickle cell, etc). What I can tell you is that if there is genetic variation and entirely random mating (no preference for races) and a disease attacks one phenotype preferentially there will always be a prevalence of that phenotype (and it does take longer for the genetically diverse population to reach equilibrium than the non-diverse) . . . not an obvious conclusion, but it's the answer . . . even if there is not a heterozygote advantage. Interesting stuff, eh?
 
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DetectiveChubby said:
mixing races results in pure hotness.

i concur.
jessica_alba_16.jpg
 
jtank said:
i concur.
jessica_alba_16.jpg

smoking! *sizzle noises*

Ya but in all seriousness, I think genetic diversity / interracial mixing is best for mankind. It'll be interesting to see how things are going to be in fifty or so years, and I imagine how remarkable and vastly different it will be from 50 years ago.
 
crazy_cavalier said:
smoking! *sizzle noises*

Ya but in all seriousness, I think genetic diversity / interracial mixing is best for mankind. It'll be interesting to see how things are going to be in fifty or so years, and I imagine how remarkable and vastly different it will be from 50 years ago.

Haha, I won't name the religion out of consideration, but this one forces you to marry complete strangers, preferably those of different races. Supposedly this will end all hate in humans. If that sounds nice, how about being married with thousands of other strangers simultaneously by the new messiah? Oh yeah, and the new messiah has been convicted of fraud in multiple countries. But to each their own.
 
whatsthegoodwor said:
Haha, I won't name the religion out of consideration, but this one forces you to marry complete strangers, preferably those of different races. Supposedly this will end all hate in humans. If that sounds nice, how about being married with thousands of other strangers simultaneously by the new messiah? Oh yeah, and the new messiah has been convicted of fraud in multiple countries. But to each their own.

I though L. Ron Hubbard was dead... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

All i say, more sex=less problems. More scientifically, the more diverse the gene pool, the more variability in offspring...however, this doesnt mean better offspring (I.E. this doesnt mean that they will have less problems because they are mixed. It just means that they have a more diverse set of genes.)
 
crazy_cavalier said:
smoking! *sizzle noises*

Ya but in all seriousness, I think genetic diversity / interracial mixing is best for mankind. It'll be interesting to see how things are going to be in fifty or so years, and I imagine how remarkable and vastly different it will be from 50 years ago.
:thumbup:
 
Actually, in terms of genes, there is more variation in individuals within the same race than among individuals of different races. An individual from one race will have less in common genetically with an individual from the same race than they would an individual from another race. For example, a white European may have more in common genetically with a black Sub-Saharan African than another white European.

There's an interesting article on this topic in the October issue of Science, I believe, which can explain this way better than I can.

Also, diseases like Sickle Cell are not really correlated with race. They are genetically based. A lot of individuals in Greece and Italy suffer from sickle cell anemia. The theory is that sickle cell occured in areas where individuals were highly suceptible to malaria. Since sickle cell confered some resistance to malaria, it was beneficial. Really, sickle cell affects people in geogrpahic areas where malaria was/is prevalent. It has nothing to do with race except that people living in areas where malaria is prevalant are most likely to be living in Africa and most likely will be black.

There has even been some discussion about whether doctors should still be taught that certain diseases are common to certain racial groups (eg, sickle cell, diabetes, obesity) since there disorders are really genetic disorders and do not absolutely correlate with race.
 
PineappleGirl said:
Actually, in terms of genes, there is more variation in individuals within the same race than among individuals of different races. An individual from one race will have less in common genetically with an individual from the same race than they would an individual from another race. For example, a white European may have more in common genetically with a black Sub-Saharan African than another white European.
I thought it was that there is more genetic variation within members of one race than between the averages of different races. If you imagine a graph with two points on it (say, white and black), the error bars will be wider than the separation between the points. But individual blacks can still be more variant from the white average than can an individual white.

As genetic tests become cheaper, easier, and more common, I think we'll stop using racial markers for diseases (like sickle cell and blacks) and use absolute genetic tests instead. However, as long as racial profiles are, on average, good indicators of possible disease, I see no reason to stop using them. We use age as an indicator of possible disease (heart disease, cancer), why not use race as well, as long as the race has a proven higher chance of the disease. Of course, you should just use race to help with diagnosis, not to actually assume one has a disease just because they have a race that is mildly correlated with the disease.
 
PineappleGirl said:
Also, diseases like Sickle Cell are not really correlated with race. They are genetically based. A lot of individuals in Greece and Italy suffer from sickle cell anemia. The theory is that sickle cell occured in areas where individuals were highly suceptible to malaria. Since sickle cell confered some resistance to malaria, it was beneficial. Really, sickle cell affects people in geogrpahic areas where malaria was/is prevalent. It has nothing to do with race except that people living in areas where malaria is prevalant are most likely to be living in Africa and most likely will be black.

There has even been some discussion about whether doctors should still be taught that certain diseases are common to certain racial groups (eg, sickle cell, diabetes, obesity) since there disorders are really genetic disorders and do not absolutely correlate with race.

There is a racial correlation to SCD, but u're right that it's a much weaker and more diverse correlation than a lot of people realize. It's true that the real culprit is genetics and not race, as I think everyone understands. You've just got strong gene linkage.

The real benefit to racial correlates that i see is two-fold. One, it is useful in ordering a good differential. Tay-Sach's would be higher up on a differential list for certain symptoms in an Ashkenazi boy than it would be in a Dominican. Course, it should still be checked for if it fits the profile, but u'd want to check for other things first if race makes it an unlikely cause. Two, it helps make screening more cost-effective if u consider race. In gestational diabetes testing, for example, race is one of several risk factors, and if there are enough risk factors, it makes it monetarily feasible to test all women w/ a certain number of risk factors early on in the pregnancy, and save universal screening for late in the pregnancy. (Don't quote me on this yet, since I have to go back and re-read that article tomorrow. I forget if the racial indicator is used to determine who should be screened early. only 90% sure it is)
 
Well, we do use HLA haplotype screening for certain diseases too, I just realized. hopefully, we'll have cheaper and cheaper testing of more and more markers to check for various diseases in the future....though I'm wary of a situation like Gattacca developing. I love that movie :love:
 
as my genetics professor told me the day before my wedding..."genetics is so easy, you can do it in bed"
 
jtank said:
what do you guys think of the interracial marriage's influence on genetic diseases? some diseases/disorders are prevalent among particular races (sickle-cell anemia in african-americans for ex), but how does that come to influence the offspring? does it promote spread of certain diseases or will it diminish the symptoms bc of greater resistance??

just want to clarify: i am not against interracial breeding, just curious what role it will play in the future... :)
Let me start by suggesting that you're begging the question (I mean that in the traditional way, not in its contemporary misuse). The question, in this case: "Is there a predictive, genetically defined thing called race," and your answer is "yes."

---My Example---
Instead of being worried about interracial breeding, you could be worried about breeding between people of different hair color. People with light hair carry certain disease factors with them more often than people with dark hair (a true statement, and so is its converse). So, what effect will the interbreeding of people of different hair colors have?

Now, the purpose of this example is not to say that race is a useless factor; certainly, African American populations wouldn't be sought out in drug trials if it were. However, WHY it's useful is important to keep in mind. Race is useful because, when well defined, it can point to distinct geographic origins (isolated populations).

In my hair color example, it can be shown that hair color also (at one point before different groups mixed) would have some of the same associative and predictive qualities that race currently has. But we have genomic information now, so we don't particularly need hair color as an indicator of anything. Nor, I argue, do we need to use race as such.
 
drinklord said:
Let me start by suggesting that you're begging the question (I mean that in the traditional way, not in its contemporary misuse). The question, in this case: "Is there a predictive, genetically defined thing called race," and your answer is "yes."

---My Example---
Instead of being worried about interracial breeding, you could be worried about breeding between people of different hair color. People with light hair carry certain disease factors with them more often than people with dark hair (a true statement, and so is its converse). So, what effect will the interbreeding of people of different hair colors have?

Now, the purpose of this example is not to say that race is a useless factor; certainly, African American populations wouldn't be sought out in drug trials if it were. However, WHY it's useful is important to keep in mind. Race is useful because, when well defined, it can point to distinct geographic origins (isolated populations).

In my hair color example, it can be shown that hair color also (at one point before different groups mixed) would have some of the same associative and predictive qualities that race currently has. But we have genomic information now, so we don't particularly need hair color as an indicator of anything. Nor, I argue, do we need to use race as such.

yes, i realize that a blonde-haired individual and black-haired individual carry with them different types of genes and varying degrees of susceptibility to some diseases. but are you completely discounting race and that some races are more inclined than others to carry with them certain advantageous/disadvantageous genes?
 
Ahh... makes me think of the movie Bullworth (I think!). Everybody needs to start ****ing everybody until we're all the same color. Great idea - who wants to get this thing started with me. I'll be at the Holiday Inn.
 
jtank said:
yes, i realize that a blonde-haired individual and black-haired individual carry with them different types of genes and varying degrees of susceptibility to some diseases. but are you completely discounting race and that some races are more inclined than others to carry with them certain advantageous/disadvantageous genes?
Sorry, I didn't flesh that out as much as I should have. I more meant that, with the advent of readily-available genomics kits, we can go directly to the genome instead of looking for (often misleading) linkages via the socially defined thing we call race.
 
PineappleGirl said:
There has even been some discussion about whether doctors should still be taught that certain diseases are common to certain racial groups (eg, sickle cell, diabetes, obesity) since there disorders are really genetic disorders and do not absolutely correlate with race.

It seems like until we have a genetic test which will quickly and inexpensively tell us all of a patient's genetic info., we need to keep using "averages" to best help patients. It's not discriminating against a group to be aware that certain populations are more susceptible to Tay-Sachs or diabetes or osteoporosis or whatever, it can help us treat those groups better. I wouldn't want a doctor to be afraid to test me for a condition because she thought she was being racist/sexist/etc. in doing so.
 
1) I think ethnicity or some other word is more appropriate here than race. Race, biologically speaking, doesn't exist. It's a social construct.

2) I am a carrier for a metabollic disorder called Galactosemia. It is autosomal recessive and most common in those of Western European descent, especially Irish and German. I happen to be half Irish and half German. It occurs in roughly 1 in 30,000 in these populations. My husband is 100% Han Chinese. Galctosemia occurs in less than 1 in 1,000,000 people throughout Asia. Well, turns out he's a carrier too and our son has it. Our son also happens to have a SECOND totally unrelated genetic disorder. So we say screw the muts-are-healthier theory. People always share stupid un-scientific anecdotes on SDN so I thought I'd throw that out there.

3) It's true biracial people are attractive: my son is the cutest baby ever! That's a scientific fact. :)
 
MiesVanDerMom said:
It's true biracial people are attractive: my son is the cutest baby ever! That's a scientific fact. :)
1) The more races you have in you, the hotter you are.

2) "It's anchorMAN, not anchorLADY - and that's a scientific FACT!" - Obligatory Anchorman reference.
 
jtank said:
what do you guys think of the interracial marriage's influence on genetic diseases? some diseases/disorders are prevalent among particular races (sickle-cell anemia in african-americans for ex), but how does that come to influence the offspring? does it promote spread of certain diseases or will it diminish the symptoms bc of greater resistance??

just want to clarify: i am not against interracial breeding, just curious what role it will play in the future... :)

Very little actual, real world, genetics follows the simple mendelian rules that you've learned so you can't think of it in simplistic terms. In general though (hands: prepare to wave), breeding between racial populations increases genetic diversity and decreases the incidence of genetic disease. Individuals in a racial population that has high incidence of genetic disease are at greatest risk for passing on disorders if they preferentially breed within that population (e.g. ashkenazi jews) and breeding with individuals outside of that population causes a marked decrease in that risk.
 
velocypedalist said:
Very little actual, real world, genetics follows the simple mendelian rules that you've learned so you can't think of it in simplistic terms. In general though (hands: prepare to wave), breeding between racial populations increases genetic diversity and decreases the incidence of genetic disease. Individuals in a racial population that has high incidence of genetic disease are at greatest risk for passing on disorders if they preferentially breed within that population (e.g. ashkenazi jews) and breeding with individuals outside of that population causes a marked decrease in that risk.

thats great news, now i have more reason to date girls outside my race (or ethnicity whatever) and i can explain to my parents how its beneficial to my future kids ;)
 
velocypedalist said:
Very little actual, real world, genetics follows the simple mendelian rules that you've learned so you can't think of it in simplistic terms.

Yes, after learning mendelian genetics in high school I was convinced that I was an illegitimate child because both my parents are left handed and I am right handed. :eek: Of course, it is much more complicated... :)
 
PineappleGirl said:
Yes, after learning mendelian genetics in high school I was convinced that I was an illegitimate child because both my parents are left handed and I am right handed. :eek: Of course, it is much more complicated... :)

That one made me laugh out loud, thanks! My parents are both righties, kids both lefties - think it's because they sat across the table from us and taught us to write, mirror-image style - who knows?!? :laugh:
 
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