MMI - Length of Initial Response

[BillrothI]

Hey Everybody,

For anyone who has gone through the MMI - how long was your initial response to the question/scenario? I've run through a couple of practice questions and after about a minute or two I find myself rambling. Is this typical?

IIRC, you have eight minutes at each station (plus two minutes to prepare). I feel that there's no way I can talk for even half of that eight minute period without further interaction with the interviewer (eg - follow-up questions).

Input on this aspect of the MMI would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Bill R.

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[chillaxbro]

I've done 2 MMIs. The interviewers are supposed to ask followup questions

 

[xffan624]

Hey Everybody,

For anyone who has gone through the MMI - how long was your initial response to the question/scenario? I've run through a couple of practice questions and after about a minute or two I find myself rambling. Is this typical?

IIRC, you have eight minutes at each station (plus two minutes to prepare). I feel that there's no way I can talk for even half of that eight minute period without further interaction with the interviewer (eg - follow-up questions).

Input on this aspect of the MMI would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Bill R.

As someone else, said, interviewer asks follow up questions. Also, the one school I did it at U of A - Tuscon, only a couple were straight questions, and some were scenarios you would play out with the evaluator. Don't think I can go in to specifics, but not all of them were medical related.

 

[BillrothI]

Thank you! That is a relief.

-Bill R.

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

I'm so glad I never had an MMI

 

[SunsFun]

Aside from acting MMI is pretty fun.

 

[Revive]

I've done 2 MMIs. The interviewers are supposed to ask followup questions

Hey Bill,

I have had one MMI and was successful fortunately. The institution I applied to did not ask follow-up questions or interact with me at all. It varies based on the program and don't always expect to be asked follow-up questions as some interviews aren't like that. However, I would suggest finding out specifically from students at the places you are applying if that is the case.

As for your issue with rambling, I had the same issue at first. It is not an uncommon issue. But over time you should be getting the hang of it and be able to give a coherent response for at least 5-6 minutes without stopping. In my opinion (take with a grain of salt), they want to see you think on your feet and give a rational answer. Go slowly through your response to show them how you think. It is after all to find out about your decision-making process.

 

[circulus vitios]

MMI interview means 5 minute mini speeches without the person saying anything in return? Welp, guess I'm going to cancel all the interviews I get at schools that do MMI.

 

[BillrothI]

Thanks, Revive. With a little bit of practice, I have been able to speak coherently for maybe two and a half or three minutes. Five seems like a stretch, but I guess it depends on the question. As I'm sure you know, some scenarios are a little bit more complicated or nuanced than others.

Circulus - I hope Revive is correct in that it varies. Unfortunately, two or three of the schools that I'm applying to are instituting the MMI beginning this year. I'm just hoping that the bar is set a bit low since all applicants will be on equal footing with regard to preparation.

-Bill R.

 

[circulus vitios]

I just read a few MMI examples and wow what an unimaginably stupid hoop to jump through. Acting, are you serious? I just cancelled an interview at a school that does MMI, and I'll do the same to any other school.

 

[BecksTriad]

I just read a few MMI examples and wow what an unimaginably stupid hoop to jump through. Acting, are you serious? I just cancelled an interview at a school that does MMI, and I'll do the same to any other school.

U cancelled an interview just bc ur afraid of MMI? I'm sorry but that's probably one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Where I did MMIs they always asked follow up questions. They're really not that bad you just have to prepare as if its a normal interviews. All the advice is a moot point anyway since you cancelled the interview.

 

[CoxMD]

Not all MMIs involve acting. At one of my MMI schools there was an actor which I had to comfort and this interaction was observed by a third party. I enjoyed MMIs. The ability to walk into a room and confidently talk to a stranger is a good skill for physicians to have. MMIs test interpersonal skills, not your ability to rehearse speeches about your extracurricular activities.

 

[SunsFun]

Okay I am biased because I am a terrible actor, but I do have to agree that the acting part of the interview seem to be very redundant. I guess of you look at being a doctor as a standard customer service gig, pretending to care about others should help a lot. Although I am still conflicted. Are they really looking for people who are good at "acting" like they care? Shouldn't it be more more important that they sincerely care about their patients?

 

[SixStringPsych]

Okay I am biased because I am a terrible actor, but I do have to agree that the acting part of the interview seem to be very redundant. I guess of you look at being a doctor as a standard customer service gig, pretending to care about others should help a lot. Although I am still conflicted. Are they really looking for people who are good at "acting" like they care? Shouldn't it be more more important that they sincerely care about their patients?

No other way to test your sense of compassion though. Why do you think clinical skills is a course in medical school? I've heard they even teach you to write down something specific about a patient to remember them (their cat's name, the fact that they like to paint, etc). Seems cold and callous but in reality doctors have lots of patients and may not be able to "care" about them all. I personally plan to strive to genuinely care about all of my patients, but hey if a kid can "act" like they care well enough and is a brilliant student, I guess that's what med schools are looking for.

 

[slopes23]

No other way to test your sense of compassion though. Why do you think clinical skills is a course in medical school? I've heard they even teach you to write down something specific about a patient to remember them (their cat's name, the fact that they like to paint, etc). Seems cold and callous but in reality doctors have lots of patients and may not be able to "care" about them all. I personally plan to strive to genuinely care about all of my patients, but hey if a kid can "act" like they care well enough and is a brilliant student, I guess that's what med schools are looking for.

I think writing things down about your patients is not so much to help you act like you care but is supposed to be a sign that you actually do care. I think even if patients were aware that they were writing personal things about you like the fact that the patient and your wife share a common hobby etc. shows that you do care. Why? Because you have a bunch of patients to attend to and your time is precious yet you took the time to remember non-clinical things about them because you do care.

 

[Back 5]

I'm on my phone, so excuse the brief response:

The golden rule comes into play. You connect with your patients because they should be, and are, the most important person in the room (of the two of you). Would you, as a patient, rather see a brilliant doctor who cares more about the disease than you, or would you rather see a brilliant doctor who cares about you as a person?

The connections we make as people matter and the hope we can instill within people will result in better outcomes. Building that relationship with our patients and connecting with them on a personal level will allow them to trust is and believe that we can help them. One of the worst feelings is being treated by a doctor and feeling like a means to and end of their fancy car or expensive lifestyle.

Our patients won't remember what we say or what we do, but they'll remember how we made them feel.

If you can genuinely present yourself as caring, thoughtful and conscientious, you shouldn't have any problem with MMI style interviews. It's not acting, it's people skills.

 

[Deadlifts]

I just read a few MMI examples and wow what an unimaginably stupid hoop to jump through. Acting, are you serious? I just cancelled an interview at a school that does MMI, and I'll do the same to any other school.

You're afraid of roleplaying scenarios where you demonstrate logic, compassion and/or basic human communication skills?

Every school I've seen that uses MMI also includes a faculty/physician or panel interview as well.

 

[BillrothI]

Every school I've seen that uses MMI also includes a faculty/physician or panel interview as well.

That is only the case at one of the schools I am applying to. As far as I can tell, all of the others have an orientation followed by the MMI; nothing else.

FWIW - I don't mind the MMI. In fact, in some ways I prefer it to the traditional format. However, I do feel that introverts may be at a distinct disadvantage. This is unfortunate. Some of the best doctors I have seen have been very quiet; great listeners who paid attention to detail and caught things other docs had missed. Being an extrovert can certainly be advantageous in some scenarios, but I feel that the MMI puts too much of an emphasis on this quality.

-Bill R.

 

[Deadlifts]

That is only the case at one of the schools I am applying to. As far as I can tell, all of the others have an orientation followed by the MMI; nothing else.

FWIW - I don't mind the MMI. In fact, in some ways I prefer it to the traditional format. However, I do feel that introverts may be at a distinct disadvantage. This is unfortunate. Some of the best doctors I have seen have been very quiet; great listeners who paid attention to detail and caught things other docs had missed. Being an extrovert can certainly be advantageous in some scenarios, but I feel that the MMI puts too much of an emphasis on this quality.

-Bill R.

Is the total count of schools who use MMI up to 15 or so? I may have spoke too soon about the majority of programs...I know OHSU includes a phd/md interview.

 

[SN12357]

That is only the case at one of the schools I am applying to. As far as I can tell, all of the others have an orientation followed by the MMI; nothing else.

FWIW - I don't mind the MMI. In fact, in some ways I prefer it to the traditional format. However, I do feel that introverts may be at a distinct disadvantage. This is unfortunate. Some of the best doctors I have seen have been very quiet; great listeners who paid attention to detail and caught things other docs had missed. Being an extrovert can certainly be advantageous in some scenarios, but I feel that the MMI puts too much of an emphasis on this quality.

-Bill R.

I think saying that introverts are disadvantaged by MMI is an oversimplification. I consider myself an introvert but actually feel I would prefer an MMI. I get nervous and tense meeting new people because I'm worried about whether or not they'll like me, and it's exhausting figuring out if I like them and making small talk with a stranger for 45 minutes. The MMI is more mercenary--in, answer the question/discuss scenario, out in under 10 minutes. And, in that way, it's more similar to much patient interaction where the doctor has limited time and a defined role.

Introverted doesn't necessarily mean quiet and/or shy, it's more about the emotional effect of social interaction.

 

[circulus vitios]

Not all MMIs involve acting. At one of my MMI schools there was an actor which I had to comfort and this interaction was observed by a third party. I enjoyed MMIs. The ability to walk into a room and confidently talk to a stranger is a good skill for physicians to have. MMIs test interpersonal skills, not your ability to rehearse speeches about your extracurricular activities.

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

 

[xffan624]

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Yeah... I mean you're never going to interact with grieving/depressed people in your medical practice.

🙄

 

[circulus vitios]

Yeah... I mean you're never going to interact with grieving/depressed people in your medical practice.

🙄

Many physicians are trained to respond to these scenarios. But if I'm going to be candid, I'm going to say things that are inappropriate for an interview setting. MMIs are absolutely worthless because they only gauge how well someone can act.

 

[xffan624]

Many physicians are trained to respond to these scenarios. But if I'm going to be candid, I'm going to say things that are inappropriate for an interview setting. MMIs are absolutely worthless because they only gauge how well someone can act.

Not everything can be learned in a book. There's no class in my curriculum this year on how to comfort a grieving family of the patient. They're trying to gauge your innate ability to be empathic towards people.

They can find 150 people that can memorize facts and figures without even bothering to do an interview. They're not looking for the 150 with the best stats and EC's, they're looking for the 150 people who will be the best doctors (that doesn't mean they can memorize the most differential diagnoses).

 

[BillrothI]

I think saying that introverts are disadvantaged by MMI is an oversimplification. I consider myself an introvert but actually feel I would prefer an MMI. I get nervous and tense meeting new people because I'm worried about whether or not they'll like me, and it's exhausting figuring out if I like them and making small talk with a stranger for 45 minutes. The MMI is more mercenary--in, answer the question/discuss scenario, out in under 10 minutes. And, in that way, it's more similar to much patient interaction where the doctor has limited time and a defined role.

Introverted doesn't necessarily mean quiet and/or shy, it's more about the emotional effect of social interaction.

That is interesting. Like you, I'm a bit of an introvert. And, also like you, I feel more comfortable with the prospect of the MMI than a panel interview or something along those lines. However, you and I may be the exception to the rule (according to this article):

In this UC Davis-funded evaluation, Jerant and his team examined the relationship between the personalities of UC Davis School of Medicine applicants and their MMI scores.

They studied 444 applicants for the 2010-11 school year who participated in the MMI process and voluntarily completed a Big Five Inventory questionnaire, a validated measure assessing agreeableness, conscientiousness, extroversion, neuroticism and openness.

Those with extroversion scores in the top quartile had significantly higher MMI scores than their counterparts. Conscientiousness, long considered the best predictor of success in medical school and physician practice, was not associated with higher scores.

http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/publish/news/newsroom/6802

-Bill R.

 

[CoxMD]

Not everything can be learned in a book. There's no class in my curriculum this year on how to comfort a grieving family of the patient. They're trying to gauge your innate ability to be empathic towards people.

They can find 150 people that can memorize facts and figures without even bothering to do an interview. They're not looking for the 150 with the best stats and EC's, they're looking for the 150 people who will be the best doctors (that doesn't mean they can memorize the most differential diagnoses).

+1

This is what I meant. Traditional interviews are a lot of rehearsed resume reciting. That hardly seems like a more effective way to screen applicants.

 

[dsoz]

Is the total count of schools who use MMI up to 15 or so? I may have spoke too soon about the majority of programs...I know OHSU includes a phd/md interview.

+1 for regular MD interview at OHSU is also MMI (with a double length "traditional interview" as one station).

I consider myself an introvert. I really liked the MMI that I had at UArizona in Phoenix and OHSU. The one at COMP-NW was mostly "acting" stations, which I liked a little bit less.

MMI provides you with multiple ways of showing yourself in discrete situations. Yes, the acting stations are a little tenuous, but they show that you are at least able to fake a concerned response.

dsoz

 

[runningdude]

So from my understanding of the MMI format, the schools that use this format want to understand are professional abilities to be a physician? Basically, they aren't trying to get any further information about our activities, lessons we have learned, etc. However, the school wants to see us use the skills and abilities we have learned in our patient care, leadership, and other activities?