Money is Relative

[FutureDoc4]

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I believe most of the issues that come up with compensation on these threads really stems from money being relative....some people believe making a $100,000 pretax is a lot of money, while others believe $500,000 is a lot of money (by a lot I mean being considered "upper middle class" and above). Please consider this in pretax dollars... I would be interested in seeing opinions.

 

[1956Goldtop]

I think anything above 100,000 is a large income to have. Of course this stems from my experience of my parents making significantly less than that for a large family. That being said, I just want to make enough to pay off my loans and live comfortably in a house in a decent neighborhood.

 

[etf]

i voted $300k. i'm also from san francisco. 100k=homeless.

 

[PanicAttack]

It also goes without saying that this is dependent upon how many children you have and where you live...a childless couple can live very comfortably on 100K

 

[FutureDoc4]

Consider this an average American family, with 1.5 kids, a dog, mortgage, etc this is meant to be very general... not specific to every little situation

 

[dedicate]

Define "upper middle" please 😀 .

 

[NJDIF]

It also goes without saying that this is dependent upon how many children you have and where you live...a childless couple can live very comfortably on 100K

haha i am constantly reminded this by my dad all the time!

I think he has his own "countdown-till-we-cut-Dan-off-and-he-takes-out-his-own-damn-loans" dance.

 

[Thewrongstuff]

1 child = 180k over 18 yrs. Its not THAT bad.

 

[t-funk]

I put $100,000.

I guess I consider lower middle class to be about $24,000-$48,000 and middle middle class to be between about $48,000-$96,000 to possibly $120,000. For me that would put upper middle above $96,000 to about $120,000. Given that the average American family income is about $70,000, I would try to put that number at about the middle of middle middle class. Since making over $200,000 puts a family at the top 4-5%, I am surprized that any number over that was offered since I would consider upper middle class to be more than 4% of the population and lower numbers than $100,000 weren't offered. To me, personally, many of those higher numbers, maybe $500,000+ look like upper class type incomes where you could easily (if you're not a *****) start putting away money to eventually have the ability to live off of interest and not have to work which is what I personally believe distinguishes middle class from upper class. As always, these are just my opinions.

 

[Lokhtar]

Right, having an income of $200k puts you in the top four % of the US population, so unless your idea of upper middle class is top 4%, it has to be lower.

I would say it depends on location. So I would say $140k household, modified by location (in SF, it might be $200k, in Kansas it might be $100k).

 

[Lokhtar]

This is the US:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/66/Income-curve-%2410k.png

 

[Lokhtar]

And only 1.50% of the US population makes over $250k as a household, so that certainly can't be bottom of the "upper middle class".

 

[FutureDoc4]

Does anyone have any data not off of Wikipedia?

 

[Vihsadas]

I thought you said 'upper class'.

For 'upper middle class' the poll doesn't have a low enough number. $85K is what I'd consider upper middle.

 

[DwyaneWade]

Does anyone have any data not off of Wikipedia?

HERESY! Wikipedia is the ultimate source!

 

[FutureDoc4]

After you post, and if you feel comfortable, please list which one you picked and which geographical area you are from, because I think that is the biggest source of differences in opinion... for example, California 85K it would be tough to argue that you would be upper middle class.. but it's still interesting to see differences in opinion

 

[Lokhtar]

Does anyone have any data not off of Wikipedia?

If you have data which are more accurate, I'd certainly be interested.

 

[Lokhtar]

HERESY! Wikipedia is the ultimate source!

How about the Census Bureau?

 

[FutureDoc4]

No, I def have no info to offer (I wish I did!).. Although Wikipedia is a great tool.... I was hoping for some more concrete info.

 

[FutureDoc4]

haha, that's better...the Census Bureau is a little more reliable than Wiki

 

[Lokhtar]

More data from the Census Bureau, though this is four years old, so add a small amount for inflation and such. The earlier PDF file has median by state, so thats a little more indicative of geographical differences, though obviously there is a big difference between up state New York and New York City, so you can't really use it for anything but a general overview of the nation.

 

[t-funk]

Well, it looks like from the census bureau, the median household income is closer to $50,000 which is closer to what I had thought. I must have found an average when I found the $70,000 number. I'm kind of curious as to why people are saying it matters where you are from. To me, its kind of like going into the middle of the projects where most people don't have an income or a very small one and then all of a sudden proclaiming that making $10,000 a year is middle middle class and maybe $20,000 per year is upper middle class. People in those environments who make $20,000 per may feel like they have a lot of stuff and are living well compared to those around them but there is no way anyone could rationalize that they would be upper middle class. If you are are from a part of the country or a neighborhood where most people make over $200,000, you are very lucky and priviledged and just happen to live somewhere where almost everyone is upper middle class and have probably been afforded opportunities in life that the average American would kill for. Of course, this is just my opinion again.

 

[t-funk]

I also noticed the lowest median income was about $35,000 for the lowest state and ranged up to about $55,000 for the highest state.

 

[FutureDoc4]

It matters because the house you could afford in say San Francisco for a $100,000 income is very different than a house in other parts of the country with the same $100,000 (in general, not going neighborhood by neighborhood). Hence, $100,000 carries different weight depending on where you are and thus means different things things to different people in different parts of the country.

 

[littlealex]

I'm honestly surprised by the outcome of this poll... In my city, 150k a year is middle class.

 

[shevie]

where were looking to buy a house, half a million dollars wont even get you a three bedroom. so if you want to have kids, two cars, and pay off your mortgate without going bankrupt anything less than 250-300k puts you in the bottom of the barrel.
i think this poll wont get accurate "results" because it has so much to do with lifestyle and where you live. in places like ny, la, sfo, dc, 100k wont get you a studio apt, let alone a house. not so much for many places in the midwest (correct me if im wrong). It also depends on "how" you wanna live. Im not talking driving a honda vs a porsche, but, for example, BABIES cost money. lots of it. then comes school TUITION (and no, public school isnt an option), also lots of money. So this poll is very very relative.

 

[Abilene85]

I view classes as a lifestyle and not a certain percentage of the American population...

Poverty – I can't even try to imagine…
Poor – can't fix things that need fixing when they break
Lower middle class – can fix important things when they break
Middle middle class – can afford some luxuries
Upper middle class – can afford more luxuries, including for their children
Rich – in financial situations, compromises rarely have to be made

So you can see where I am coming from, my family is considered "rich" by the government. My parents paid my way through college, but could only afford it thanks to a big scholarship from the school. Now I am taking out loans for med school. I know a number of people whose parents paid for their undergrad (without scholarship) and are still paying for their medical school tuition, plus they have a new BMW and have traveled around the world. I don't consider my family to be in the same class as those people, even though we all fall into the top 5% earning category.

 

[FutureDoc4]

What I think is definitely shown through this poll is how different people have very different perspectives on this based on their own experiences. Which makes discussing fact pertaining to physicians being "fairly compensated" tough to discuss when people have such different perspectives on this.

 

[etf]

It matters because the house you could afford in say San Francisco for a $100,000 income is very different than a house in other parts of the country with the same $100,000 (in general, not going neighborhood by neighborhood).

according to the sf chronicle a few years ago, a family had to earn $120,000 a year to be able to afford a house in san francisco. not a nice house, a house. i'd venture that the average income in my neighborhood is 150-200k, and if you saw the cars in our driveways, you would not be impressed.

 

[FutureDoc4]

I am not saying you could/couldnt afford a house/condo in SF for a $100,000, but don't you feel like the $100,000 could take you a lot further in the type of house/condo you could afford in different parts of the country?

 

[flaahless]

Man, where I'm from, if you make 100k you are BALLIN.

 

[t-funk]

I know very little about places like CA and NY but my uncle is the head of an astrophysics research program in DC on cosmic rays. I can only assume that this gives him the highest level of compensation through the federal government which last I heard is close to the mid-100's and his wife works "for non-profit" which I have absolutely no idea what the hell that is. I doubt their total income is over $200,000, though I could be wrong. They commute to DC every day from Virginia and live in a beautiful suburb in a huge house. I don't think there is any rational person who would consider them anything but upper middle class. In these types of areas, isn't it more where you decide to live and how close to the city? To me, that seems like a personal choice. What type of house you live in shouldn't dictate what class you are in. I could make a $200,000 a year and decide to live in a trailer park and I would still be upper middle class.

 

[arb011]

Where I am from, the vast majority of people make less than $100k a year total, and most of them are living quite comfortably. For me, upper middle class would be somewhere below $100k, say 80.

 

[etf]

I am not saying you could/couldnt afford a house/condo in SF for a $100,000, but don't you feel like the $100,000 could take you a lot further in the type of house/condo you could afford in different parts of the country?

absolutely. a 3.3 gpa will take you a lot farther along the admissions process at albany than it will at harvard. similarly, wealth tends to be concentrated around the coasts - if you live in north dakota, you'll probably be in the top .5% of earners making 200 grand a year.