Moonlighting

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BunsenBeaker

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I was chatting with an AF doc yesterday about career stuff and she mentioned moonlighting as a pretty normal thing some folks to do keep their skills up. Is that common across all the services? All specialties? Are there any drawbacks to this?

Anybody here moonlight that could shed some light on this? Thanks!

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I was chatting with an AF doc yesterday about career stuff and she mentioned moonlighting as a pretty normal thing some folks to do keep their skills up. Is that common across all the services? All specialties? Are there any drawbacks to this?

Anybody here moonlight that could shed some light on this? Thanks!

I moonlight -- its fairly common across all specialties, not only is the extra money nice but it also helps mitigate skill degradation. The process to get authorized is somewhat cumbersome (but then again, what isn't) that requires your employer and your command to sign off in it, and requires a monthly memo to be submitted documenting your hours. I know of a general surgeon who's memo either expired or got lost in the shuffle following a change in command -- he was on the verge of completing his ADSO and began moonlighting, didn't stop the new command for filing UCMJ charges against him. So just do it the right way and keep copies of everything.
 
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Almost everyone I knew did a little moonlighting. The exception may have been some of the general surgeons, since they were deployed half the time and preferred to stay home. Even then, a lot of them did. Depending upon where you're stationed and what your specialty is, you almost have to do it to partially mitigate your skill degradation.
 
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I moonlight -- its fairly common across all specialties, not only is the extra money nice but it also helps mitigate skill degradation. The process to get authorized is somewhat cumbersome (but then again, what isn't) that requires your employer and your command to sign off in it, and requires a monthly memo to be submitted documenting your hours. I know of a general surgeon who's memo either expired or got lost in the shuffle following a change in command -- he was on the verge of completing his ADSO and began moonlighting, didn't stop the new command for filing UCMJ charges against him. So just do it the right way and keep copies of everything.

Your anecdote of the surgeon getting UCMJ action because of an apparent administrative oversight with ODE is slightly terrifying. I am curious, how did his command find out about him apparently violating ODE regulation? Was there another big detail you left out, like he was moonlighting while also on call during duty hours or something crazy? Have any advice for those of us wishing to pursue ODE in the future to mitigate skill atrophy? thanks
 
Your anecdote of the surgeon getting UCMJ action because of an apparent administrative oversight with ODE is slightly terrifying. I am curious, how did his command find out about him apparently violating ODE regulation? Was there another big detail you left out, like he was moonlighting while also on call during duty hours or something crazy? Have any advice for those of us wishing to pursue ODE in the future to mitigate skill atrophy? thanks

As far as I know, he filled out all the paperwork, got all the signatures (except from his command) and was waiting for months until he finally just got tired of it —and must have felt than since he was less than 12 months aways from getting out that he could just go ahead and start moonlighting—command had a different idea. I am not sure how they found out? Nevertheless, it came across very petty on the part of command and he ended up having to hire a lawyer before the charges were eventually dropped.

Regardless of specialty, I would definitely consider ODE — the only exception possibly being if you are a highly deployed specialty, in which case, you may want to spend that time with family. After all, no one on their deathbed wishes they wouldve worked more in their life ;-)

Contact your S1, and get the ball rolling with the paperwork, it takes months to get it all done (including credentialing) but its worth it.

On a side note, my hourly rate is so much higher than what the military is paying that I could work less than half the hours I work in the Army and make well over twice as much. Short notes, no BS admin/meetings, no comparison.
 
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I was chatting with an AF doc yesterday about career stuff and she mentioned moonlighting as a pretty normal thing some folks to do keep their skills up. Is that common across all the services? All specialties? Are there any drawbacks to this?

Anybody here moonlight that could shed some light on this? Thanks!

Moonlighting is very common, though it is harder with some specialties than others. Shift worker kind of specialties have an easier time than those that are inherently longer term doctor-patient relationships with repeat visits. One universal rule is a prohibition of long term / ongoing commitments to the care of a patient.

The paperwork hassle varies with individual commands. At my current command, we no longer have to file monthly logs of hours worked. The approval process takes a week or two. There's some annual online training and renewal paperwork. Fill out a form, wait. They will withhold permission if you have PFA failures or basic deployment readiness deficiencies. I had one held up for a couple weeks last year because my department didn't have some unrelated credentialing paperwork filed on time for me. For the most part, it's a very reasonable process.

Like a lot of things in the military, you can choose to be mad about the imposition on your time, or you can choose not to be.

The main difficulty is that working a weekday someplace usually requires you to spend vacation days. There are rules regarding mandatory rest periods between civilian and military shifts. Rules about total hours per week. Laws against self referral and double billing the government.

If you want to moonlight close to the base where you're stationed, you can run into trouble with places willing to hire you, because they can't bill for any care you provide to DOD beneficiaries. Many places will just eat that cost because they need the help.

Ultimately you're at the mercy of your command. They don't have to let you moonlight. But most leaders get it - they understand it's good for skill retention and morale. They're required to have oversight and a system for monitoring personnel who engage in off duty employment. Don't pick fights you don't have to. Don't piss people off. Don't cause idle trouble. Don't be the guy who constantly ignores uniform regulations. This is common sense stuff ... try to maintain a good working relationship with your bosses and they won't maliciously spike your wheel when you want or need something.

Be aware that some staff resent the notion of doctors moonlighting. There's often some jealousy involved. Be discreet about your moonlighting. Avoid talking about it where nurses, non physician officers, and enlisted can overhear. Most of them make a lot less that you do and have little perspective on how underpaid we are for what we do. Don't mention how much money moonlighting pays within earshot, or how much better the EMR is, or how the nurses are more helpful, or how the techs have been doing their job for 10 years as opposed to the 6 month standard block our enlisted often do prior to rotation to another service at a MTF. In short, be courteous and professional, do your command-mandated paperwork, be discreet, and it'll work out fine.
 
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Can active duty members moonlight to the VA? Also, did anybody who had a lot leave built up from residency use that leave (30-60 days) en route to next active duty station and moonlight during that time? I imagine moonlighting immediately after residency during leave en route also requires commander approval as well.
 
Can active duty members moonlight to the VA? Also, did anybody who had a lot leave built up from residency use that leave (30-60 days) en route to next active duty station and moonlight during that time? I imagine moonlighting immediately after residency during leave en route also requires commander approval as well.

My educated guess is no -- as that may lead to 'double dipping,' with TriCare patients.
 
You can't moonlight at the VA. It's possible to get credentialed at one and do work there, but it's just your place of duty for the day. This may be worthwhile for skill maintenance but you can't get paid extra for it.

Moonlighting while in PCS transit is possible. Ideally you'd do the paperwork at your departing command, but I suspect they'd be reluctant to do so since once you detach you're not their problem any more. I would just do it. Don't break any laws and it'll be fine.
 
How do Locum positions work in the military? Do you have to file all the paperwork for every place you work at, or just with the locks company?
It might vary by command but everywhere I've been it's the actual place you're working. This make sense since part of the point of the paperwork is to ensure the organization billing the patients knows they can't bill Tricare beneficiaries. That's not the locums agency's job; the bill the place you're working and pay you.
 
Also, did anybody who had a lot leave built up from residency use that leave (30-60 days) en route to next active duty station and moonlight during that time? I imagine moonlighting immediately after residency during leave en route also requires commander approval as well.

I don’t know how other services work, but for the Army, you belong to the old command on paper until you sign into the new one. Ergo, I would think any in transit moonlighting would, theoretically, have to be approved by your residency command. That’s problematic because they’re unlikely to update your status to a non-GME one where moonlighting is permissible. You can decide for yourself how likely you are to be caught and the risk/reward situation, but it strikes me as a nearly impossible situation to do “above board”.
 
I have been doing a lot of moonlighting to get extra pay and obtain civilian experience as I look forward to retirement in few years. I even share my civilian experience with military patients and some appreciate my civilian experience something positive.
 
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Moonlighting is very common, though it is harder with some specialties than others. Shift worker kind of specialties have an easier time than those that are inherently longer term doctor-patient relationships with repeat visits. One universal rule is a prohibition of long term / ongoing commitments to the care of a patient.

The paperwork hassle varies with individual commands. At my current command, we no longer have to file monthly logs of hours worked. The approval process takes a week or two. There's some annual online training and renewal paperwork. Fill out a form, wait. They will withhold permission if you have PFA failures or basic deployment readiness deficiencies. I had one held up for a couple weeks last year because my department didn't have some unrelated credentialing paperwork filed on time for me. For the most part, it's a very reasonable process.

Like a lot of things in the military, you can choose to be mad about the imposition on your time, or you can choose not to be.

The main difficulty is that working a weekday someplace usually requires you to spend vacation days. There are rules regarding mandatory rest periods between civilian and military shifts. Rules about total hours per week. Laws against self referral and double billing the government.

If you want to moonlight close to the base where you're stationed, you can run into trouble with places willing to hire you, because they can't bill for any care you provide to DOD beneficiaries. Many places will just eat that cost because they need the help.

Ultimately you're at the mercy of your command. They don't have to let you moonlight. But most leaders get it - they understand it's good for skill retention and morale. They're required to have oversight and a system for monitoring personnel who engage in off duty employment. Don't pick fights you don't have to. Don't piss people off. Don't cause idle trouble. Don't be the guy who constantly ignores uniform regulations. This is common sense stuff ... try to maintain a good working relationship with your bosses and they won't maliciously spike your wheel when you want or need something.

Be aware that some staff resent the notion of doctors moonlighting. There's often some jealousy involved. Be discreet about your moonlighting. Avoid talking about it where nurses, non physician officers, and enlisted can overhear. Most of them make a lot less that you do and have little perspective on how underpaid we are for what we do. Don't mention how much money moonlighting pays within earshot, or how much better the EMR is, or how the nurses are more helpful, or how the techs have been doing their job for 10 years as opposed to the 6 month standard block our enlisted often do prior to rotation to another service at a MTF. In short, be courteous and professional, do your command-mandated paperwork, be discreet, and it'll work out fine.
I would second this. In addition keep your moonlighting discrete. Their is always jealousy involved in moonlighting. Follow the rules. Its a great way to supplement your skills and many of you are not going to make the military a career its good to learn the pace. The UCMJ for moonlighting without a chit is extreme. The chit is a two way document that says the command can call y hospital and verify your employment and hours. Without a chit no communication can occur legally. But all this is not worth sitting in legal limbo awaiting a ucmj case to be dropped. Again to those that need to know IE in your direct line of paperwork dh or dss xo co they can know your moonlighting. Everyone else should be invisible to this. Trust me from first hand experience it will make your life easier!
 
Moonlighting is very common, though it is harder with some specialties than others. Shift worker kind of specialties have an easier time than those that are inherently longer term doctor-patient relationships with repeat visits. One universal rule is a prohibition of long term / ongoing commitments to the care of a patient.

The paperwork hassle varies with individual commands. At my current command, we no longer have to file monthly logs of hours worked. The approval process takes a week or two. There's some annual online training and renewal paperwork. Fill out a form, wait. They will withhold permission if you have PFA failures or basic deployment readiness deficiencies. I had one held up for a couple weeks last year because my department didn't have some unrelated credentialing paperwork filed on time for me. For the most part, it's a very reasonable process.

Like a lot of things in the military, you can choose to be mad about the imposition on your time, or you can choose not to be.

The main difficulty is that working a weekday someplace usually requires you to spend vacation days. There are rules regarding mandatory rest periods between civilian and military shifts. Rules about total hours per week. Laws against self referral and double billing the government.

If you want to moonlight close to the base where you're stationed, you can run into trouble with places willing to hire you, because they can't bill for any care you provide to DOD beneficiaries. Many places will just eat that cost because they need the help.

Ultimately you're at the mercy of your command. They don't have to let you moonlight. But most leaders get it - they understand it's good for skill retention and morale. They're required to have oversight and a system for monitoring personnel who engage in off duty employment. Don't pick fights you don't have to. Don't piss people off. Don't cause idle trouble. Don't be the guy who constantly ignores uniform regulations. This is common sense stuff ... try to maintain a good working relationship with your bosses and they won't maliciously spike your wheel when you want or need something.

Be aware that some staff resent the notion of doctors moonlighting. There's often some jealousy involved. Be discreet about your moonlighting. Avoid talking about it where nurses, non physician officers, and enlisted can overhear. Most of them make a lot less that you do and have little perspective on how underpaid we are for what we do. Don't mention how much money moonlighting pays within earshot, or how much better the EMR is, or how the nurses are more helpful, or how the techs have been doing their job for 10 years as opposed to the 6 month standard block our enlisted often do prior to rotation to another service at a MTF. In short, be courteous and professional, do your command-mandated paperwork, be discreet, and it'll work out fine.

I think this is very good advice.

The times where I have seen moonlighting privileges globally revoked (even for a short time) have been when one guy decides not to follow the rules. He doesn't do the paperwork, take the appropriate leave, etc., and it puts a bad taste in command's mouth and they pull the plug for everyone. That can last until the command structure turns over. So don't be the guy who ruins it for everyone. We had some anesthesiologists who would basically take turns 'covering' each other at our MTF so that they could take turns moonlighting at a facility about 1.5 hours away. Now, they didn't leave the OR or the hospital uncovered. they were within 250 miles, so "technically" they didn't need leave. But they were supposed to be on duty. So that's a red light, and they jacked it up for everyone else for about a year. Don't be that guy.

Second, also, the idea of keeping it generally on the DL. I would talk about cases that I did with my partners, but you will find both within and outside of milmed that there is a lot of envy. There are definitely nurses and staff (mostly nurses) who will go out of their way to stab you in the back if they have the chance simply because you're a doctor and you think you're SOOOO special. I'm not saying everyone is like that. Not at all. But they exist, and they tend to also be the types of people who work their way into the upper echelons of hospital infrastructure because it gives them a modicum of control. And again, this isn't limited to the military (although I certainly ran in to it more often there). So don't give them a reason to start turning over your rocks. Because they'll find something. or they'll change the regulations (or misinterpret them intentionally) in order to make what they find "something".

Moonlighting is a privilege. Treat it that way.
Your finances are not a point of public forum. Treat them that way.
 
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Who has to sign off on this stuff? Just company level or up to the next (ie battalion or brigade)??
The unit (hospital) CO.

Sometimes they delegate this authority.

Where I am now the paperwork is reviewed by the person's dept head and director, a command administrative person to verify the prerequisites are met, legal to verify there's no conflict of interest with the facility, and then the package is forwarded for signature. All done electronically on the intranet via email and some custom SharePoint app.

At my previous command it was a locally made paper form that went through your dept head, director, and XO.
 
The unit (hospital) CO.

Sometimes they delegate this authority.

Where I am now the paperwork is reviewed by the person's dept head and director, a command administrative person to verify the prerequisites are met, legal to verify there's no conflict of interest with the facility, and then the package is forwarded for signature. All done electronically on the intranet via email and some custom SharePoint app.

At my previous command it was a locally made paper form that went through your dept head, director, and XO.
you'll have to forgive the questions, i just dont want to screw this up and be up the creek without a paddle. So i'm FORSCOM, surgeon for a battalion....would i still have to work this through our local MTF or just my company?
 
you'll have to forgive the questions, i just dont want to screw this up and be up the creek without a paddle. So i'm FORSCOM, surgeon for a battalion....would i still have to work this through our local MTF or just my company?

Didn't want to create a new thread as this one seems to contain good info on the topic. I just can't take anymore "moonlighting" pro-bono at my local MTF as a way to keep up my skills. Whenever they create a schedule for me it typically gets filled with "i need this EFMP paperwork filled out" or "i need a PHA done", which is precisely NOT the reason I want to moonlight. Understandable though since I have no panel in the clinic and they are so overloaded with patients that my slots get filled without whoever needs something taken care of....BUT, even being primary care I don't get enough of it with my unit and need to see some sick peeps. of course the extra pay is a bonus, but i'm seriously itching to diagnose something other than back/knee/neck/shoulder/elbow/wrist/finger/toe/ankle pain.

In reference to my question quoted above, being in a 62B slot i have essentially no relationship to the MEDCOM/MTF here (as far as getting signatures for approval on anything) got my company commander, my "supervisor" is the BN XO, and the BN commander next up (with the latter two being my rater and senior rater, respectively).

EDIT: was also reading MEDCOM reg 600-3 (the latest?) and the forms they include for obtaining ODE all have "sample" stamped across them. is there a repository of forms needed (a la army directory website)?
 
I just can't take anymore "moonlighting" pro-bono at my local MTF as a way to keep up my skills. Whenever they create a schedule for me it typically gets filled with "i need this EFMP paperwork filled out" or "i need a PHA done",
Why not ask for different patients? It seems like the simplest solution is to set an age range. I assume the local MTF sees retirees? Ask that they only book you patients over the age of 50. The front desk can absolutely do that if you ask.
 
Why not ask for different patients? It seems like the simplest solution is to set an age range. I assume the local MTF sees retirees? Ask that they only book you patients over the age of 50. The front desk can absolutely do that if you ask.

I tried talking with the practice manager about it when I asked if they wanted some help with seeing patients. The individual wasn’t too keen on setting parameters. I can see where they are coming from: super busy clinic, more patients than available slots/providers, always getting harped for access, etc...as I’m sure is the case across most MTFs. I guess I could just shmooze the front desk gals and ask them. The issue is most appointments in the fam med clinic are filled via PSMC (or however the online tricare booking system is spelled) and if there is an open spot it’s a mad dash free for all. Any patient can book for absolutely ANY reason when they do it online....it’s all about access dammit!!! I’m not quarreling with the system, it’s just how it’s set up is all.

I simply want to start seeing/diagnosing a wider variety of patients that a community clinic can offer seeing it is free from military-related items. Probably won’t be getting PHAs and EFMP requests at an urgent care. Also, getting paid for such is a wonderfully added bonus as well.
 
I tried talking with the practice manager

The what? Is that the army term for department head?

The issue is most appointments in the fam med clinic are filled via PSMC (or however the online tricare booking system is spelled) and if there is an open spot it’s a mad dash free for all. Any patient can book for absolutely ANY reason when they do it online....it’s all about access dammit!!! I’m not quarreling with the system, it’s just how it’s set up is all.

So you don't open a schedule in advance. I assume Army clinics also have nurses on the phones. They can create appointment slots as they book patients into them. Just tell them you only want to see the elderly.

Again, you are a volunteer. The admin is graded on access and needs the help. If you say 'its this or nothing' they will probably take it. If it was your clinic, of course, it would be a very different story.
 
Can I ask why you're moonlighting at an MTF? Why not at a civilian clinic or hospital?
If you only have an irregular day or two to spare it can be hard to find a civilian who wants to go through the work of credentialing and hiring you. That's especially true if you want to cover something more interesting than urgent care. Sometimes the best option is to help cover the small MTF, or to go TAD to a big MTF.
 
If you only have an irregular day or two to spare it can be hard to find a civilian who wants to go through the work of credentialing and hiring you. That's especially true if you want to cover something more interesting than urgent care. Sometimes the best option is to help cover the small MTF, or to go TAD to a big MTF.

Makes sense...and I assume your talking Peds (way outta my lane). I would still encourage all (in any specialty) to moonlight in the civilian world, if you really want to see sick patients.
 
Makes sense...and I assume your talking Peds (way outta my lane). I would still encourage all (in any specialty) to moonlight in the civilian world, if you really want to see sick patients.

Speaking from a pathology perspective, it’s really interesting to moonlight and see the types of cases you get at civilian institutions. Everyone has cancer, it’s crazy.
 
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Speaking from a pathology perspective, it’s really interesting to moonlight and see the types of cases you get at civilian institutions. Everyone has cancer, it’s crazy.
I used to think the lack of acuity and volume was just a surgical problem in the milmed, and that only our surgical colleagues had to moonlight in order to maintain skills. I'm slowly starting to realize this is a problem in every specialty in the milmed (including my own).
 
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I used to think the lack of acuity and volume was just a surgical problem in the milmed, and that only our surgical colleagues had to moonlight in order to maintain skills. I'm slowly starting to realize this is a problem in every specialty in the milmed (including my own).
Peds and OB see pretty close to the full scope of their specialties, I think.
 
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I used to think the lack of acuity and volume was just a surgical problem in the milmed, and that only our surgical colleagues had to moonlight in order to maintain skills. I'm slowly starting to realize this is a problem in every specialty in the milmed (including my own).

Ya, I would say it is probably most specialties. I’m at a major MFT and see both my full scope for both my specialty and sub specialty, but that definitely wouldn’t be true if I was almost anywhere else than where I am.
 
I used to think the lack of acuity and volume was just a surgical problem in the milmed, and that only our surgical colleagues had to moonlight in order to maintain skills. I'm slowly starting to realize this is a problem in every specialty in the milmed (including my own).

The best way to learn is to see patients and read about their problems. The medical specialties can compensate better than the surgical by reading in a vacuum but it’s still hard.
 
All this MTF talk, but what about a GMO/FS/UMO whose CO is a line officer and not the local MTF?
 
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All this MTF talk, but what about a GMO/FS/UMO whose CO is a line officer and not the local MTF?

This.

I’m not trying to ruffle feathers here or “ditch” my local MTF who likely needs any help it can get. I simply want to practice some medicine in the civilian world and enjoy some of the compensation that comes with it. I also want to make sure I do it right in the eyes of the Army.
 
It is possible to moonlight in urgent care or occ med as a one year wonder. Whether it’s right...

Let me rephrase for clarity to hopefully help those who are interested: how does one assigned to an operational billet get approval to moonlight when your CO is a line officer? This applies to GMOs of all flavors, but also those assigned to higher operational billets who are likely BE/BC, a la brigade surgeons, MAG/MEF surgeons, CATF surgeons, etc.
 
how does one assigned to an operational billet get approval to moonlight when your CO is a line officer?

Just ask, route up the request. Hell I did it as a GMO (in a urgent care/occ med clinic---Yes I was a 'one-year wonder', but I wasn't doing it completely alone, had plenty of senior physicians to help when needed). I actually saw a lot that helped me in turn on my ship. (If you spin it that way to your line CO, that the moonlighting will help you in treating the unit, it looks like a very positive thing).
 
Even a line command will some policy concerning off-duty employment. It will have been conjured with the E4 moonlighting at Burger King in mind, but it's a good place to start.
 
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