Moonlighting

[kedhegard]

Do military (spec. Army) residents ever moonlight at civilian hospitals? Or is it not allowed?

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[GeoLeoX]

almost uniformly not allowed.

 

[kedhegard]

Figured so. Probably too busy anyhow.

 

[CaliGrl80]

Does anyone know if it is possible to work part time after you have "paid back" your time for having attended USUHS/residency for example?

 

[Croooz]

Does anyone know if it is possible to work part time after you have "paid back" your time for having attended USUHS/residency for example?

Not sure i understand your question. Are asking about working part time after you paid back and are now out of the military? Or still in the military but finished with payback?

You can moonlight during your payback just not during residency. I worked for physicians who were moonlighting at local ER's while they were on their GMO tours with the Marines at LeJeune, prior to residency. I also worked with physicians who were moonlighting after residency. The biggest complaint was the fact they made more in one weekend moonlighting than the entire month of active duty.

 

[CaliGrl80]

Not sure i understand your question. Are asking about working part time after you paid back and are now out of the military? Or still in the military but finished with payback?

You can moonlight during your payback just not during residency. I worked for physicians who were moonlighting at local ER's while they were on their GMO tours with the Marines at LeJeune, prior to residency. I also worked with physicians who were moonlighting after residency. The biggest complaint was the fact they made more in one weekend moonlighting than the entire month of active duty.

I was talking about once you were done with residency and the additional 4-7 yrs after. I meant if I decided to continue to stay in the military and practice, would it be possible to work only part time in the military. I know that I will eventually have a family and I may want this option.

 

[trixmd]

You can work part time in the military as a reservist. One weekend a month, and two weeks a year. Unless they activate you, then you are 24/7.

They also hire contract doctors, some of whom only work part time. This will affect your benefits package.

Trix

 

[Neuronix]

I was talking about once you were done with residency and the additional 4-7 yrs after. I meant if I decided to continue to stay in the military and practice, would it be possible to work only part time in the military. I know that I will eventually have a family and I may want this option.

When are you planning on having a family? 35+ sound ok? That's roughly when you should plan to be done if you enter med school at age 22.

 

[CaliGrl80]

When are you planning on having a family? 35+ sound ok? That's roughly when you should plan to be done if you enter med school at age 22.

I was planning on maybe starting when I was 33. I am 24 now. I thought this would be towards the end of residency or first part of starting to pay back my time. I am just trying to take all things into consideration even though I am not even married now.

 

[Neuronix]

I was planning on maybe starting when I was 33. I am 24 now. I thought this would be towards the end of residency or first part of starting to pay back my time. I am just trying to take all things into consideration even though I am not even married now.

Good luck with that. If you do join HPSP, may you be lucky enough to find someone you're compatible with who's willing to spend years apart from you or is willing to go exactly where the military tells you to. You will have less control over where you go for residency than in the civilian world, and while on payback you are likely to be stationed in the middle of nowhere and moved around, not to mention deployments. You should definately take into consideration what your life will be like 5 or 10 years down the road when making this decision. I think this is more difficult for women honestly, because the men I know who are in HPSP and have been successful in their relationships have found women who do jobs that they can do anywhere--i.e. not other doctors or highly-educated professionals. Women tend much more to marry their equals or marry up, making it much harder for you to find someone who can be flexible. If you do decide to have a family before you leave HPSP, consider leaving your infant or toddler and goign on deployment for 6-12months in Iraq. Doesn't seem right, does it? That's not something you could pay me $200,000 to do.

I met someone during my first year of med school who signed onto HPSP only a few months prior. She seemed to like me very much also. If she had known she was going to meet someone, she would have never signed. But, once you sign, you're locked in. Now the military's attitude is "Just be prepared to spend your residency and attendingship away from him". My advice for people considering HPSP is that you can't tell the future, and not to sign away the next 12+ years of your life. But, that's just my opinion...

 

[llort]

Good luck with that. If you do join HPSP, may you be lucky enough to find someone you're compatible with who's willing to spend years apart from you or is willing to go exactly where the military tells you to. You will have less control over where you go for residency than in the civilian world, and while on payback you are likely to be stationed in the middle of nowhere and moved around, not to mention deployments. You should definately take into consideration what your life will be like 5 or 10 years down the road when making this decision. I think this is more difficult for women honestly, because the men I know who are in HPSP and have been successful in their relationships have found women who do jobs that they can do anywhere--i.e. not other doctors or highly-educated professionals. Women tend much more to marry their equals or marry up, making it much harder for you to find someone who can be flexible. If you do decide to have a family before you leave HPSP, consider leaving your infant or toddler and goign on deployment for 6-12months in Iraq. Doesn't seem right, does it? That's not something you could pay me $200,000 to do.

I met someone during my first year of med school who signed onto HPSP only a few months prior. She seemed to like me very much also. If she had known she was going to meet someone, she would have never signed. But, once you sign, you're locked in. Now the military's attitude is "Just be prepared to spend your residency and attendingship away from him". My advice for people considering HPSP is that you can't tell the future, and not to sign away the next 12+ years of your life. But, that's just my opinion...

why so bitter neuronix? from what I understand you are not in HPSP, just your SO is. sounds like you are unhappy in your relationship.. why dont you just deal with your SO instead of taking out your frustration on SDN?

 

[Neuronix]

why so bitter neuronix? from what I understand you are not in HPSP, just your SO is. sounds like you are unhappy in your relationship.. why dont you just deal with your SO instead of taking out your frustration on SDN?

I'm not bitter at all. I'm simply trying to inform those who are considering HPSP of the things that can happen after they sign so they really think about it. In the end, you don't have to hear "I was lied to!" or "I didn't know what I was doing!" As someone who's not in HPSP, I don't need to practice resolution of cognitive dissonance to ignore the negative aspects of it, I don't need to listen to "YOU SIGNED, DEAL WITH IT!" (which is what she usually gets), and I sure as heck don't have to respond to "You're just bitter, so somehow you need to stop posting your thoughts on SDN."

 

[Croooz]

I have a problem with Neuro's take because it's 2nd hand...

BUT

He has heard loud and clear what the problems are in the military.

BUT

Making a claim that only being to start a family at 35 being a problem is ridiculous. There are plenty of docs who have families in the military and are making it work. I wouldn't expect someone who hasn't had to make it work to understand what that's like.

Getting back to the original post...WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT TO WORK PART-TIME FOR THE MILITARY AFTER PAYBACK? I apologize but your post screams of inexperience. Why would anyone want to do this? I guess the reserves would give you this but with the current & potential op tempo why take on a parttime job which has bullets flying over head?? Just doesn't make sense to me.

I will have to agree with Neuro and recommend you go civilian. Asking something like this points to not understanding the hows & whys of mil med. Do yourself a favor and remain a civilian.

 

[CaliGrl80]

I have a problem with Neuro's take because it's 2nd hand...

BUT

He has heard loud and clear what the problems are in the military.

BUT

Making a claim that only being to start a family at 35 being a problem is ridiculous. There are plenty of docs who have families in the military and are making it work. I wouldn't expect someone who hasn't had to make it work to understand what that's like.

Getting back to the original post...WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU WANT TO WORK PART-TIME FOR THE MILITARY AFTER PAYBACK? I apologize but your post screams of inexperience. Why would anyone want to do this? I guess the reserves would give you this but with the current & potential op tempo why take on a parttime job which has bullets flying over head?? Just doesn't make sense to me.

I will have to agree with Neuro and recommend you go civilian. Asking something like this points to not understanding the hows & whys of mil med. Do yourself a favor and remain a civilian.

First to clarify I am not considering HPSP. I was accepted at USUHS and am considering going. As for why I would want to work part time for the military after payback, I was just wondering if it was possible b/c I may want not want to work 80 hours a week for my entire life. I know many women physicians who work three or four days a week and get to spend the rest of their time with their kids. I just wanted to know if this is an option should I choose to continue to practice in the military. I am inexperienced which is why I am trying to gain as much knowledge as possible before making any decisions. I have no prior military experience so I cannot be sure whether i will like the military lifestyle. There are many aspects that appeal to me such as not having to deal with malpractice/ insurance, being able to treat patients and not worry about whether they can afford treatment, and the camaraderie and environment is also appealing. The chance to learn things that I would never be exposed to in the civilian world is exciting to. I think that I would get great training at USUHS which would prepare me well for practicing in the military or civilian world. There are drawbacks as well I know but I am just trying to weigh everything. As far as residency I think I would be more likely to be able to get back into california since half the NAVY residencies are here.

 

[Neuronix]

Have you read the posts by actual military physicians or the posts by the ones who have finished? It really doesn't seem like it. Read the viewpoint thread, and look up all the posts by MilitaryMD for example. There's several Navy docs and ex-Navy docs who have posted here who have very little good to say about their experiences. If you can read all that and still want to join (and I think those posts debunk all those reasons you mentioned for going in), go for it.

Oh, and don't forget that you can always join FAP or as a civilian contractor later. Though, somehow I seriously doubt you'd want to. The idea of doing a GMO doesn't appeal to any senior medical student that I know, only to the pre-meds and those who end up being forced into one (remember cognitive dissonance?). The idea of losing control of where and how you practice appeals to very few residents/attendings.

 

[trixmd]

You might want to check your numbers on half of the Navy residencies being in San Diego. There are currently 3 big training centers in the Navy - Balboa, Portsmouth, and San Diego where a lot of the training takes place. There are also 5 or so FP residencies, only one of which is in California. The Air Force also has big training center in Northern California (Travis AFB). More over, a lot of USU students come from California, so a lot of them are trying to get back to California, making the spots more competitive. Finally, even if you do a surgical subspecialty, residency is a finite part of what is a long time commitment. If you do match for training in California, there's no guarantee that you'll practice in California. The Navy has a lot of bases with doctors all over the world.

I went to USU and went to college in California, and many people in my class were in the same boat. I've not been stationed on the West Coast since getting commissioned, but I like living in different parts of the world. Other people are pretty unhappy that they can't live and work in the location of their choice. That's why we get "orders" not "invitations."

I'd think long and hard about decisions you're making at 24 that will affect you for at least until you're 36. (4 years at USU, 1 year internship, 7 years obligated service.) It's fairly difficult to change directions mid-stride, no matter what the recruiters say.

Finally, if you're choosing the Navy, remember this - sailors belong on ships, and ships belong at sea. That goes for physicians too.

Trix

 

[Croooz]

Cali...
Do not join the military.
Do not go to USUHS.
Do not take a HPSP.
Do not go FAP.

Your post reeeeeeks of money and some fluff about camaraderie. Here's what you want.

1. A family.
2. School paid for.
3. Salary while in medical school
4. Residency in Cali.
5. Part-time hours.
6. Camaraderie

What in that list points to the military? Number 6 but I see a tighter bond between civilian docs & military docs than military docs and other military people. So unless you know something I don't about the camaraderie in the military this one gets crossed off the list.

This leaves us with no other reason for you to join....NONE. You can fool others with your reasons but in the end you are joining for all the wrong reasons, especially to go to USUHS.

Inexperience is not cured by knowledge. Unfortunately the only way to know if the military is good fit for you is to sign up. In your 2 posts I can say without batting an eye that you have very little business joining the military. You are in for a real wake up call that's going to cost you a minimum of 12 years of your life. This is if you remain a GMO for the 7 years of payback. You seriously need to FORGET ABOUT THE MONEY and search deeply into what you want.

Ultimately it goes like this:
Do you want to be a MILITARY physician? Read throughout here reading the "other side" of the story. Contact USUHS and get their version and marry up the two and you'll begin to get a picture of what it'll be like.

UNFORTUNATELY....You're going to ignore the advice and go to USUSH anyway. Do yourself a favor and NEVER admit how much of a mistake you made in joining nor how all you want to do is raise your kids...NEVER.

 

[denali]

CaliGrl80,

Listen to trixmd & Croooz above. Your posts suggest a striking naivete regarding the military and military medicine. It's too big a committment to be so uninformed at this point, so unless you're sitting on one of the PHS slots (and even then...), I'd advise you to go civilian.

If that's not what you want to hear, then it is absolutely imperative you sit down & talk with some military physicians before you make your final decision and take your oath of office.

Good luck,

 

[CaliGrl80]

Cali...
Do not join the military.
Do not go to USUHS.
Do not take a HPSP.
Do not go FAP.

Your post reeeeeeks of money and some fluff about camaraderie. Here's what you want.

1. A family.
2. School paid for.
3. Salary while in medical school
4. Residency in Cali.
5. Part-time hours.
6. Camaraderie

What in that list points to the military? Number 6 but I see a tighter bond between civilian docs & military docs than military docs and other military people. So unless you know something I don't about the camaraderie in the military this one gets crossed off the list.

This leaves us with no other reason for you to join....NONE. You can fool others with your reasons but in the end you are joining for all the wrong reasons, especially to go to USUHS.

Inexperience is not cured by knowledge. Unfortunately the only way to know if the military is good fit for you is to sign up. In your 2 posts I can say without batting an eye that you have very little business joining the military. You are in for a real wake up call that's going to cost you a minimum of 12 years of your life. This is if you remain a GMO for the 7 years of payback. You seriously need to FORGET ABOUT THE MONEY and search deeply into what you want.

Ultimately it goes like this:
Do you want to be a MILITARY physician? Read throughout here reading the "other side" of the story. Contact USUHS and get their version and marry up the two and you'll begin to get a picture of what it'll be like.

UNFORTUNATELY....You're going to ignore the advice and go to USUSH anyway. Do yourself a favor and NEVER admit how much of a mistake you made in joining nor how all you want to do is raise your kids...NEVER.

I don't appreciate your tone towards the end here and for the record I still have not made up my mind. So thank you for your helpful input and smug comments. Sorry for being naive but I don't have any personal experience and so all I can go off of is other people's info. I have spoken with several military physicians and residents.

 

[Croooz]

In my experience the salary at USUHS shortcircuits logic & reason. You have no clue those who have chosen USUHS and then emailed or called me apologizing and then asking for a "way" to get out. Only to walk into conversations with these same disenchanted folks encouraging others...it's mind boggling. I guess it's a "misery loves company" situation.

Regardless, do a search here because every post about USUHS or HPSP gives reasons why or why not to join. HPSP is a huge commitment and USUHS is even bigger. You have no idea what you will want in 15 years so why would you agree to a contract that locks you in for this long? Is the salary up front really worth it? Your reasons said nothing about providing care to military people but about their ability to pay.

Search here for MilMD and DiveDoc and you'll get a decent balance of the good & bad. In the end the choice is yours but you are behind the power curve since you've already been accepted.

 

[Mirror Form]

I don't appreciate your tone towards the end here and for the record I still have not made up my mind. So thank you for your helpful input and smug comments. Sorry for being naive but I don't have any personal experience and so all I can go off of is other people's info. I have spoken with several military physicians and residents.

hey CaliGrl, I can see why you might have got a bit offended, but crooz is your friend and he's trying to help you out.