More Job Security, or Not?

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Noyac

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With the recent news of deaths in dental pts the dental community is starting to call for more use of "Dental Anesthesiologist". Is this another site for us to cover or is this just going to,increase the costs of dental care like we are seeing with colonoscopies?

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/761640?src=mp&spon=46


Dr. Liu also said that some state dental boards prohibit dentists from providing general anesthesia or deep sedation, even if they have completed residency programs in anesthesiology, and he thinks these regulations should be changed.

"I find it tremendously helpful to have a dental anesthesiologist, as opposed to an MD anesthesiologist, because he knows exactly what I'm doing and when I'm going to be done," said Dr. Liu. "I have used a dental anesthesiologist for more than 20 years, and I don't know how anybody manages without one."


Does this make sense to you? Is dental anesthesia really that difficult that you need to know exactly what the dentist is doing and when? Give me a break, man!

Are dental anesthesiologists better able to take care of these kids? Are they even qualified to take care of these kids? What about the kids that are not "normal"?

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Office based anesthesia especially private pay is extremely lucrative these days.

My friend covers hospital but his group has hugh office base expansion.

He bring his own anesthesia machine. Don't take any short cuts. He requires if dentist wants to use him it's got to be for a six hour time frame.

Dentist make a killing. He did complete resoration dental for patient. Patient paid $40k. Yes 40k. My anesthesia friend got a $5000 cut. Not bad for 5-6 hours of work.

You have to be on your A game in office based. He's told me he almost lost a patient. Those 5 foot 8 270 pound airways.
 

"I find it tremendously helpful to have a dental anesthesiologist, as opposed to an MD anesthesiologist, because he knows exactly what I'm doing and when I'm going to be done," said Dr. Liu. "I have used a dental anesthesiologist for more than 20 years, and I don't know how anybody manages without one."


The above deserves a big 'ol:

:roflcopter:

No offense, but it's painfully obvious that "Dr. Liu" doesn't know squat. He has used a dental anesthesiologists for 20 years. :laugh:... therefore, he doesn't know any better. They do fine... but to insinuate that they may be superior is just funny.

There is no better trained anesthesiologist than the one that is board certified by the ABA. Residency will give you the necessary skills to handle anything you can encounter in a dental office.

Dental cases are butter. I nasally tube all of mine cuz it makes their lives easier.
 
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Butter.

How about doing a total laryngectomy 2/2 large tumor on an obese child that has known MH, an allergy to ROC and absolutely won't hold still for an awake trach? The surgeon says that you "should" be able to get the AW.... :laugh:

Oh... wait... call the dental anesthesiologists.

No offense here... just having some fun at expense of "Dr. Liu" and his comments.
I've worked with dental anesthesia dudes and they do their jobs just fine.... but please don't try and make the lines fuzzy....

:)
 
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Office based anesthesia especially private pay is extremely lucrative these days.

My friend covers hospital but his group has hugh office base expansion.

He bring his own anesthesia machine. Don't take any short cuts. He requires if dentist wants to use him it's got to be for a six hour time frame.

Dentist make a killing. He did complete resoration dental for patient. Patient paid $40k. Yes 40k. My anesthesia friend got a $5000 cut. Not bad for 5-6 hours of work.

You have to be on your A game in office based. He's told me he almost lost a patient. Those 5 foot 8 270 pound airways.


Wow, 40k. I'm in the wrong business. I think I make about 1500 for 10 hours of work give or take.
 
I am not sure what a dental anesthesiologist is? Did they complete a full residency in anesthesiology or are they just a dentist who learns along the way? (I can't get access to the article).

I don't think the dentist should be gloating about knowing what he's doing and when. Dentistry doesn't exactly involve complex procedures.
 
I am not sure what a dental anesthesiologist is? Did they complete a full residency in anesthesiology or are they just a dentist who learns along the way? (I can't get access to the article).

I don't think the dentist should be gloating about knowing what he's doing and when. Dentistry doesn't exactly involve complex procedures.

It appears to be a residency (fellowship?) that dentists can complete after they graduate. This is what wiki says:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_anesthesiology


Dental anesthesiology training is usually 24 to 36 months in length and accredited and overseen by CODA. The American Dental Board of Anesthesiology examines and certifies dentists who complete an accredited program of anesthesiology training in the United States or Canada. Dentists may then apply for Board Certification through the ADBA which requires ongoing and continual post-graduate education for maintenance.[1]1

The training usually consists of 2-4 months devoted to hospital based internal medicine rotations with cardiac and pediatric focus. During this time the residents will function alongside physician residents in caring for hospital patients outside of the operating room. Training includes grand rounds, and full time coverage of hospital in-patients. The residents are expected to gain a working knowledge of how patients with symptoms ranging from end-stage renal disease to hypertension to cardiac failure are cared for in a hospital setting. The residents usually do not provide or perform any anesthesia procedures during this time, focusing instead on general medicine.

At least a year is then spent working in a hospital as anesthesiology residents. Most programs will put their residents alongside 1st and 2nd year physician anesthesiology residents ( known as CA-1 and CA-2) providing anesthesia for all cases provided at the hospital. The resident is exposed to all types of surgeries with the hope of getting a full experience in anesthesiology. The residents will usually rotate along with the medical residents to various units (cardiac, pediatric, and neuro), as well as out patient Surgery Centers if available. The resident will train in the PACU and ICU at most programs to further understanding of perioperative medicine. Dental residents will usually have limited exposure to regional anesthesia and specialty cases depending on the program.

Another 9-12 months is spent focusing specifically on anesthesia provided for dental and maxillofacial cases. Programs with attached dental schools allow the residents to hone skills providing anesthesia for oral surgeons, pediatric dentists, general dentists, and all specialists for any patient requiring anesthesia for dental care. The procedures requiring anesthesia range from major orthognathic surgery, trauma services, to normal dentistry being provided for special needs, pediatric, and patients anxious about dental care.

Many programs will give the resident the chance to participate in mobile anesthesia in which equipment is brought to a private practice to provide in office anesthesia. This requires specific training as mobile anesthesia units vary from large hospital providing units. There is also a greater demand on the anesthesiologist for post-anesthesia care in office, as it is usually handled by PACU nurses in a hospital. The mobile anesthetist must also be qualified in Advanced Cardiac Life Support and Pediatric Advanced Life Support.

There are 9 programs in the United States. They include : 1. University of Pittsburgh Medical Center 2. Loma Linda University Medical Center 3. University of California Los Angeles 4. The Ohio State University Medical Center 5. Stony Brook University Dental School 6. Wyckoff Heights Medical Center 7. St. Barnabas Hospital 8. Lutheran Medical Center 9. Jacobi Medical Center

Following training residents are eligible to take the NDBA board examination. Upon completion of the exam eligible candidates can apply for state permits allowing them to provide Geneal Anesthesia and Deep Sedation in a hospital or private office. There are various regulations varying by the state. With a permit dental anesthesiologists have a number of options available to practice. Some choose to act solely as anesthesia providers for other dentists and dental specialists. This may be done at available Surgery Centers or on a mobile basis. The dental anesthesiologist may also practice dentistry with the aid of General Anesthesia. A smaller number of dental anesthesiologists work in hospitals and medical centers. Most work as teaching faculty along side a dental residency, but some act solely as anesthesiologists focusing on maxillo-facial surgeries requiring anesthesia. The dental anesthesiologist is also licensed to supervise CRNAs (nurse anesthetists) in a hospital or private setting.

With so few programs it is extremely competitive as an area of study. As of 2011 there are 27 open spots. Salary reports vary widely due to the small amount of practitioners and a large variance in practice styles. Dental anesthesiologists at surgery centers will usually command 300-800 dollars an hour[citation needed] where as in office mobile anesthetists may charge more.

As of June 1st, 2011, the American Society of Dentist Anesthesiologists has submitted an application to the American Dental Association in order to recognize Dental Anesthesiology as a specialty within the practice of dentistry. The issue will be voted upon and decided by November 2012.
 
Word to the wise: Dentistry is the early pioneer of the field of Anesthesiology.
 
You called me out on my logical fallacy lol.

"He who starts it owns it"

no.

"He who continues it keeps it".

yes.


Barbers were the early pioneers of the field of surgery.

Where are you going to take your daughter with her acute abdomen? A hospital, or SuperCuts?
 
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I plan to do all this stuff myself one day when I'm an OMFS. No one is cutting into my bottom line :smuggrin:
 
I plan to do all this stuff myself one day when I'm an OMFS. No one is cutting into my bottom line :smuggrin:

you are doing the surgery and the anesthesia at the same time? wow you are amazing
 
I plan to do all this stuff myself one day when I'm an OMFS. No one is cutting into my bottom line :smuggrin:

I know an OMFS surgeon who killed a patient with this type of attitude. 20-something year old college kid with anoxic brain injury. The guy still walks around like he is God.

Also, had an instance where we were called stat to some random clinic outbuilding at our hospital where a "dental anesthesiologist" was administering anesthesia and doing a cleaning. In the chair was a school aged kid who was blue and wheezing with an adult LMA sticking out of his mouth. Luckily, anesthesia staff arrived in time and the kid did fine after intubation and treatment for bronchospasm.
 
Word to the wise: Dentistry is the early pioneer of the field of Anesthesiology.

Left up to dentists, we would still be administering topical cocaine and ether. Don't forget who your daddy is when you're out there giving propofol, using SpO2, etc.
 
My favorite line:

"The drugs propofol , ketamine, remifentanil and Versed were administered to Marissa in what is commonly known as light sedation used for dentistry.
"

WTF? That sounds like the he was trying to do a tiva spine.
 
Whoa, dont want to kill anyone. I dont really see it getting too bad because, where I've assisted, most the patients were getting thirds taken out and implants put in. Sometimes a cancer biop or orthag. I was getting at that in many OS offices there isn't a huge need for GA [in my limited experience].

Is there a huge risk if the OS is using IV sedation via versed or fentanyl?

I know an OMFS surgeon who killed a patient with this type of attitude. 20-something year old college kid with anoxic brain injury. The guy still walks around like he is God.

Also, had an instance where we were called stat to some random clinic outbuilding at our hospital where a "dental anesthesiologist" was administering anesthesia and doing a cleaning. In the chair was a school aged kid who was blue and wheezing with an adult LMA sticking out of his mouth. Luckily, anesthesia staff arrived in time and the kid did fine after intubation and treatment for bronchospasm.

Phew, so he got his prophy? lol
 
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This is standard practice in OMS and has a long, document history of being a successful medical care delivery strategy with an enviable serious complication rate.

Are you f*cking kidding?
Or are you another brilliant medical student?
 
Does it look like I'm kidding, my avatar is a tooth?

If you've got documentation to the contrary, put your money where your mouth is.

To be fair, your avatar is a tooth with a penis amalgam or something on it :)
 
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