Most expensive Schools

[denniss1]

Would that be USC and NYU?

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[BioMaxDDS]

they are about the same
i think the difference is less than 10k after 4 years

 

[BioMaxDDS]

USC $342,410
NYU $350,499
according to their websites

 

[stdmufin27]

Tufts and Louisville don't mess around either. Louisville doesn't allow you to gain residency in the state during your 4 years.

 

[MnBr63]

Tufts and Louisville don't mess around either. Louisville doesn't allow you to gain residency in the state during your 4 years.

^ Truth. Out of state tuition is NOT going to be cheap. They expect it to increase by about 9% each year, too. I'm not posting the figures but I'd take a look at the website. I have a brother that is going to Columbia for dental school and he is looking to be only a little more in debt than I am.

 

[bigstix808]

MUSC out of state is 220k+ just for tuition!!

just about gosh darn rediculous if you ask me...

 

[jigabodo]

^ Truth. Out of state tuition is NOT going to be cheap. They expect it to increase by about 9% each year, too. I'm not posting the figures but I'd take a look at the website. I have a brother that is going to Columbia for dental school and he is looking to be only a little more in debt than I am.

Louisville OOS tuition is indeed getting outrageous. I have a feeling soon enough it's going to catch up to many private schools.

 

[BioMaxDDS]

Louisville OOS tuition is indeed getting outrageous. I have a feeling soon enough it's going to catch up to many private schools.

what about the cost of living though? (compare to NYU and USC)

 

[jigabodo]

what about the cost of living though? (compare to NYU and USC)

I am living in a single room for 350/month. You gotta pay at least triple the price in NYC or LA.

 

[BioMaxDDS]

I am living in a single room for 350/month. You gotta pay at least triple the price in NYC or LA.

wow, that is NICE =)

 

[MnBr63]

what about the cost of living though? (compare to NYU and USC)

I am living in a single room for 350/month. You gotta pay at least triple the price in NYC or LA.

Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the tuition is less at Columbia (for OOS) than Louisville, but the cost of living is what raises the amount you have to take out for financial aid. Both can expect to take out around $300,000. Louisville's cost of living is relatively cheap. I'm living in a 2 bed/ 2 bath apartment in downtown for $770/mo ($385/person/month.) My brother is paying $850/mo for one room in a small bedroom 3 bedroom in Washington Heights about 6 blocks from the school.(not the nicest neighborhood in the city)

 

[blankguy]

I am living in a single room for 350/month. You gotta pay at least triple the price in NYC or LA.

I will be paying roughly the same price at UB. But unlike Louisville I can change my residency status after one year. Hanging out in NYC and LA is more fun than Buffalo but I'm not going the Buffalo to hangout.

 

[jigabodo]

I will be paying roughly the same price at UB. But unlike Louisville I can change my residency status after one year. Hanging out in NYC and LA is more fun than Buffalo but I'm not going the Buffalo to hangout.

No need to beat the dead horse, I know UB's got the best bang for the buck already!

 

[MnBr63]

I will be paying roughly the same price at UB. But unlike Louisville I can change my residency status after one year. Hanging out in NYC and LA is more fun than Buffalo but I'm not going the Buffalo to hangout.

I heard somewhere that at UIC if you are a non-resident, and you marry an IL resident THEN you can change your residency status. I wonder if the same thing applies to other schools.

 

[Hysteria24]

I heard somewhere that at UIC if you are a non-resident, and you marry an IL resident THEN you can change your residency status. I wonder if the same thing applies to other schools.

Along the same lines....

If you marry someone who works at USC (or if you spouse gets a job at USC), you can get half off of your tuition for two years.

With tuition @ $61,953 a year that's a savings of well... $61,953

 

[Epictetus21]

UoP is also up there, $226,000 tuition for the three years, $25,000 in fees and supplies, and estimated $72,000 living expenses = total $323,000. That's San Francisco for you.

 

[jigabodo]

UoP is also up there, $226,000 tuition for the three years, $25,000 in fees and supplies, and estimated $72,000 living expenses = total $323,000. That's San Francisco for you.

My friend got a studio for 1300 a month. It's not even in a good neighborhood either.

Just goes to show how outrageous living expenses can be at big cities.

 

[UCSF2012]

No need to beat the dead horse, I know UB's got the best bang for the buck already!

The best bang for the buck's San Antonio. And the city's the opposite of depressing.

 

[blankguy]

No need to beat the dead horse, I know UB's got the best bang for the buck already!

Why did you ditch us for Louisville! I feel so betrayed by Jiga!

Anyways I doubt this will make that much of a difference compared to Louisville. At least we are not dealing with Sanfran, LA, NY, or Boston.

 

[UCSF2012]

Along the same lines....

If you marry someone who works at USC (or if you spouse gets a job at USC), you can get half off of your tuition for two years.

With tuition @ $61,953 a year that's a savings of well... $61,953

I would so do a sham marriage to qualify for that discount.

 

[blankguy]

My friend got a studio for 1300 a month. It's not even in a good neighborhood either.

Just goes to show how outrageous living expenses can be at big cities.

Sounds like Boston. I remember going to the BU interview and the financial aid person was making a big fuzz over the fact that the neighborhood around BU medical campus was very expensive. In fact it was going over the alloted amount for housing in the cost of attendance sheet that they had printed up. It was kinda of awkward to go to a school presentation and the presenter was sort of coming across that it was too expensive at the school.

 

[UCSF2012]

Anyways I doubt this will make that much of a difference compared to Louisville. At least we are not dealing with Sanfran, LA, NY, or Boston.

There're reasons why people'll gladly go to 'Sanfran, LA, NY, or Boston.'

 

[blankguy]

I would so do a sham marriage to qualify for that discount.

You'd be better off looking for a sugarmama/sugardaddy.

 

[MnBr63]

The best bang for the buck's San Antonio. And the city's the opposite of depressing.

I would definitely agree. Don't get me wrong...I'm glad I'm going to Louisville, but when you're a Texas resident and you have the possibility to go to UTHSCSA and pay about $11,000/year in tuition instead of $60,000...you start to wonder "what if..." However, I have about 3 friends who said that if they could choose again they'd probably be happier at Houston.

I've lived in both cities, though.... you could be extremely happy living in either. There is so much to do. Cost of living isn't too bad either.

 

[Suren911]

BU, UoP, NYU are among some of the most expensive dental schools. I wonder how long it would take graduates to pay off all the debt.

 

[Montserrat]

NYU, USC, BU, Tufts, and Penn,are all pretty pricey. UoP is expensive, but it's only three years. That "fourth" year could represent an extra year of work output, so the tuition isn't as bad as it seems. NYU and USC also have a large class size though, for what that's worth.

 

[Shunwei]

NYU, USC, BU, Tufts, and Penn,are all pretty pricey. UoP is expensive, but it's only three years. That "fourth" year could represent an extra year of work output, so the tuition isn't as bad as it seems. NYU and USC also have a large class size though, for what that's worth.

Even when you factor in the fourth year, UoP is still very expensive ($320k / 4 yrs.). I personally don't really buy the fourth year income theory. But it is a good school, though.

 

[dentistin2011]

i think western univ. is most expensive as far as only tuition is concerned.

 

[SoCalDent]

Even when you factor in the fourth year, UoP is still very expensive ($320k / 4 yrs.). I personally don't really buy the fourth year income theory. But it is a good school, though.

What about the "4th year income theory" dont you buy?

 

[luckydocy]

I certainly believe in the fourth year income theory! I mean regardless of how much you gonna earn, you will be one year ahead of everyone else (the ones who applied at the same time of course)

 

[War Eagle]

Even when you factor in the fourth year, UoP is still very expensive ($320k / 4 yrs.). I personally don't really buy the fourth year income theory. But it is a good school, though.

Did you ever take an economics class and learn about opportunity cost? Not that you have to take the class to understand the principle.

 

[armorshell]

What about the "4th year income theory" dont you buy?

It's not as good as some people try to make it out to be. People try and look at the average income for a new dentist (~100k) and straight subtract it off the total cost of education (330k) and arrive at a nice looking number which doesn't really work.

The year is worth it in opportunity cost and savings on accumulated interest, as well as a lifetime investment (Assuming you work 1 year longer than the average dentist).

Savings on accumulated interest is roughly $20,000 when compared to a similar priced school, for example Columbia. Because of compound interest, loan amounts will be roughly the same for both schools, despite Columbia's cost of attendance being roughly $20k less than Pacific's, because of a year of added interest (and housing).

Some people will also choose to measure their success in comparison to the class the would have graduated with had they not attended Pacific, and buckle down for their first year out and pay down significant portions of their loan while living moderately, giving them an additional $20-30k towards the principal of their loan.

Additionally, the average cost of attendance is rising at a much slower rate than the national average for private schools, likely due to the massive fundraising campaign that was recently completed.

Given all this, UoP is still an expensive program, but it's nowhere in the range of schools like NYU and USC. With all the new hyper-expensive schools opening up (Midwestern, Pomona) it looks like Pacific is moving towards the high-middle to middle end of price ranges, at least as far as private schools are concerned.

 

[Bruinlove]

Did you ever take an economics class and learn about opportunity cost? Not that you have to take the class to understand the principle.

But, that only works when everyone gets the same amount of practicing time until his/her retirement.

Monthly, UoP graduates will be paying as much as other NYU, USC graduates do.

 

[Montserrat]

It's not as good as some people try to make it out to be. People try and look at the average income for a new dentist (~100k) and straight subtract it off the total cost of education (330k) and arrive at a nice looking number which doesn't really work.

Anyone who thinks of repaying that way is going to lose money. If I took out loans, I wouldn't be in a rush to pay it off at once. Though a performing hedge fund will reap >15% in returns, there are many ways one can plant the money to exceed the value of interest from loans.

If I were to take out loans, I would not look at that extra year of working and subtract that from the overall debt accrued - that's foolish to me. Reinvest, and reap in excess of. Especially if they're single (and it seems like there are a lot of single dental graduates), they are going to get absolutely boned in taxes (to a lesser degree - unless they live in a state like WA) unless they have a method of decreasing their real income, either through small business funneling or elsewhere.

 

[SoCalDent]

It's not as good as some people try to make it out to be. People try and look at the average income for a new dentist (~100k) and straight subtract it off the total cost of education (330k) and arrive at a nice looking number which doesn't really work.

The year is worth it in opportunity cost and savings on accumulated interest, as well as a lifetime investment (Assuming you work 1 year longer than the average dentist).

Savings on accumulated interest is roughly $20,000 when compared to a similar priced school, for example Columbia. Because of compound interest, loan amounts will be roughly the same for both schools, despite Columbia's cost of attendance being roughly $20k less than Pacific's, because of a year of added interest (and housing).

Some people will also choose to measure their success in comparison to the class the would have graduated with had they not attended Pacific, and buckle down for their first year out and pay down significant portions of their loan while living moderately, giving them an additional $20-30k towards the principal of their loan.

Additionally, the average cost of attendance is rising at a much slower rate than the national average for private schools, likely due to the massive fundraising campaign that was recently completed.

Given all this, UoP is still an expensive program, but it's nowhere in the range of schools like NYU and USC. With all the new hyper-expensive schools opening up (Midwestern, Pomona) it looks like Pacific is moving towards the high-middle to middle end of price ranges, at least as far as private schools are concerned.

I actually dissagree. I think that it is worth quite a bit. And it is not just the first year you get out of school that counts.

Lets say someone graduates from USC and one from Pacific. Both graduates (assuming they are the same person) takes say 5 years to get to a maximum income level in their practice.

Except the Pacific graduate got there 1 year sooner and thus will have 1 more year of MAXIMUM INCOME LEVEL in his lifetime. Because no matter when you graduate it will still take you the same number of years to reach your max income.

So lets say that is $350,000 (for the sake of argument). That means the Pacific graduate will make $350,000 more in his lifetime and that year is then worth that much.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[DCRedskinsRule]

I would definitely agree. Don't get me wrong...I'm glad I'm going to Louisville, but when you're a Texas resident and you have the possibility to go to UTHSCSA and pay about $11,000/year in tuition instead of $60,000...you start to wonder "what if..." However, I have about 3 friends who said that if they could choose again they'd probably be happier at Houston.

I've lived in both cities, though.... you could be extremely happy living in either. There is so much to do. Cost of living isn't too bad either.

First of all, AMEN to the bold statement .

Second of all, being a TX resident does make going to TX schools A LOT cheaper...but it's still not CHEAP. First year budget for Houston with in state tuition, fees, and living expenses is at $45,000. Now I know that's nothing compared to $85K at NYU or whatever, but again, this is a public school, in state tuition, and Houston not NY.

Just thought I would clarify about the $11,000 comment earlier

 

[Shunwei]

What about the "4th year income theory" dont you buy?

What I am saying is that you end up paying $320k anyway, and even if you factor in how much you can re-pay in the first year out of school (let's be generous and say 3k for 12 months) you end up with something that is still close to $280k. This amount is still higher than a lot of the other programs out there. So in the end, I can buy the argument that you gain an extra year's worth of time to help you hone your skills and get your practice going, but the financial argument is not as convincing. Yes, you do get one more year's worth of income, but you still have to pay the loan + interest at some point in time, don't you?

Personally, I really like UoP and respect the program (it's actually my 2nd choice), but I feel that the school is leveraging its three year program too much and is overpricing the education. However, it could also be that the school is located in the heart of SF, where it is also exorbitantly costly live in.

 

[SoCalDent]

What I am saying is that you end up paying $320k anyway, and even if you factor in how much you can re-pay in the first year out of school (let's be generous and say 3k for 12 months) you end up with something that is still close to $280k. This amount is still higher than a lot of the other programs out there. So in the end, I can buy the argument that you gain an extra year's worth of time to help you hone your skills and get your practice going, but the financial argument is not as convincing. Yes, you do get one more year's worth of income, but you still have to pay the loan + interest at some point in time, don't you?

See my post above about how it doesn't matter what you make your first year, but rather what you make in your maximum income years. In my estimation it makes it much more worth it if you figure that in.

And I know you mean no malice in your post about UoP and I wouldn't even care if you did. Just trying to justify my point.

 

[armorshell]

Personally, I really like UoP and respect the program (it's actually my 2nd choice), but I feel that the school is leveraging its three year program too much and is overpricing the education. However, it could also be that the school is located in the heart of SF, where it is also exorbitantly costly live in.

I absolutely agree. I think the financial benefit of the extra year is inappropriately presented during the interview, and everyone knows I believe private schools in general are way too expensive for minor perceived benefits.

But there are a lot of people breaking down the doors to finish a year early for some reason, and your and my cost/benefit structure is probably different then theirs, and I doubt that would change much by adjusting the financial discussion.

 

[Shunwei]

See my post above about how it doesn't matter what you make your first year, but rather what you make in your maximum income years. In my estimation it makes it much more worth it if you figure that in.

And I know you mean no malice in your post about UoP and I wouldn't even care if you did. Just trying to justify my point.

Your maximum income years is going to be subjective. $350k as you suggest might be reasonable for a OMFS, but $200k might be much more reasonable for your average GP (which, incidentally, is what the majority of the folks at UoP end up as). Keeping that in mind, that's why I think a $320k education at UoP vs. a $200k education at your U of ____ is a draw financially.

If I were UoP, I would actually advertise less about the extra year's worth in earning and emphasize the more abstract gains with the year's time. A lot of dentists start hitting their real salary potential about 2-3 years after graduation, so one can argue that by saving a year at UoP, you can more quickly sharpen your skills and become a proficient practitioner. However, this kind of thing is hard to quantify, and since we are just discussing tuition and salary here, it is difficult to factor that objectively into the discussion.

 

[armorshell]

Your maximum income years is going to be subjective. $350k as you suggest might be reasonable for a OMFS, but $200k might be much more reasonable for your average GP (which, incidentally, is what the majority of the folks at UoP end up as). Keeping that in mind, that's why I think a $320k education at UoP vs. a $200k education at your U of ____ is a draw financially.

If I were UoP, I would actually advertise less about the extra year's worth in earning and emphasize the more abstract gains with the year's time. A lot of dentists start hitting their real salary potential about 2-3 years after graduation, so one can argue that by saving a year at UoP, you can more quickly sharpen your skills and become a proficient practitioner. However, this kind of thing is hard to quantify, and since we are just discussing tuition and salary here, it is difficult to factor that objectively into the discussion.

Note that I don't think anyone here is trying to say that Pacific is the cheapest school out there, or even that it's worth it to come here over a cheap school. All we're saying is that there is some financial and other random benefits to getting out of school a year earlier.

As far as most people from Pacific becoming GPs, yes, that's true. We also have a near 100% match rate to specialties. Ask yourself if you think that people who are willing to pay so much money for the chance to finish a year early are the ones who are really gunning to do 3-6 more years of school after graduation...

 

[SoCalDent]

Your maximum income years is going to be subjective. $350k as you suggest might be reasonable for a OMFS, but $200k might be much more reasonable for your average GP (which, incidentally, is what the majority of the folks at UoP end up as). Keeping that in mind, that's why I think a $320k education at UoP vs. a $200k education at your U of ____ is a draw financially.

Well, I guess if you say that general dentists make only $200k then you would be correct. I however don't know a single one that does. At least in southern california where I am from they are pulling in quite a bit more than that.
But even if it were only $200k as you say, then that extra year would pull the UoP education down to $120k which is $80k less than your U of___.

 

[SoCalDent]

Note that I don't think anyone here is trying to say that Pacific is the cheapest school out there, or even that it's worth it to come here over a cheap school. All we're saying is that there is some financial and other random benefits to getting out of school a year earlier.

As far as most people from Pacific becoming GPs, yes, that's true. We also have a near 100% match rate to specialties. As yourself if you think that people who are willing to pay so much money for the chance to finish a year early are the ones who are really gunning to do 3-6 more years of school after graduation...

Totally agree.

 

[armorshell]

Well, I guess if you say that general dentists make only $200k then you would be correct. I however don't know a single one that does. At least in southern california where I am from they are pulling in quite a bit more than that.
But even if it were only $200k as you say, then that extra year would pull the UoP education down to $120k which is $80k less than your U of___.

Only if you use the flawed logic they present at the interview. The number would have to include thing like taxes and to a degree, living expenses.

 

[Shunwei]

Note that I don't think anyone here is trying to say that Pacific is the cheapest school out there, or even that it's worth it to come here over a cheap school. All we're saying is that there is some financial and other random benefits to getting out of school a year earlier.

As far as most people from Pacific becoming GPs, yes, that's true. We also have a near 100% match rate to specialties. As yourself if you think that people who are willing to pay so much money for the chance to finish a year early are the ones who are really gunning to do 3-6 more years of school after graduation...

I absolutely agree--everything is subjective. In fact, one of the reasons I was interested in UoP was because I could shave a year off of my dental education time, and given that I am an older non-trad. time is important to me. In the end, though. personal preferences overcame that, but I can understand and respect that line of thinking.

All I am trying to say is that from a purely financial point of view, the financial incentives argued by UoP is debatable, at least. And while I have certainly seen successful dentists who earn a lot of money as SoCalDent suggests, I have also seen a lot of dentists with sagging practices (a DDS is not a guarantee that you will be financially successful--that takes acumen of a different type). So I would actually argue for the time savings and the more abstract gains as I mentioned above, if I were UoP, rather than the actual financial gains.

 

[SoCalDent]

Only if you use the flawed logic they present at the interview. The number would have to include thing like taxes and to a degree, living expenses.

I don't think the logic is flawed at all. The fact is you are making 1 entire year of maximum income than someone else who starts a year later and retires at the same time. Whether that is $100k (which is VERY low if you ask me) after taxes and living or whatever, you are still making that much more money.
In addition, our friend Shunwei will be paying a pretty penny to live in LA for that additional year while making no money and living off of borrowed money. (of course you know this already)

 

[SoCalDent]

I absolutely agree--everything is subjective. In fact, one of the reasons I was interested in UoP was because I could shave a year off of my dental education time, and given that I am an older non-trad. time is important to me. In the end, though. personal preferences overcame that, but I can understand and respect that line of thinking.

All I am trying to say is that from a purely financial point of view, the financial incentives argued by UoP is debatable, at least. And while I have certainly seen successful dentists who earn a lot of money as SoCalDent suggests, I have also seen a lot of dentists with sagging practices (a DDS is not a guarantee that you will be financially successful--that takes acumen of a different type). So I would actually argue for the time savings and the more abstract gains as I mentioned above, if I were UoP, rather than the actual financial gains.

I'm pretty sure that we interviewed together. You were rediculously accomplished as I recall. I'm sure you will have no trouble making it financially.

 

[armorshell]

I don't think the logic is flawed at all. The fact is you are making 1 entire year of maximum income than someone else who starts a year later and retires at the same time. Whether that is $100k (which is VERY low if you ask me) after taxes and living or whatever, you are still making that much more money.
In addition, our friend Shunwei will be paying a pretty penny to live in LA for that additional year while making no money and living off of borrowed money. (of course you know this already)

That argument is financially sound, but is a very long term investment (say $200,000 over 31 years of practice). This is equivalent to an investment of about $25,000-30,000 dollars at the outset of that time, compounding over 31 years. No matter how you look at it, a year off your education, as a general dentist, is going to be worth around $30,000 (Plus about $20,000 in interest you're not going to accrue), not the 180k subtracted off the top promised by Dr. Yarborough.

 

[Shunwei]

I'm pretty sure that we interviewed together. You were rediculously accomplished as I recall. I'm sure you will have no trouble making it financially.

Did we? Well, regardless of the financial debate UoP is a great place. I am sure you will have fun there and get a great education. And you get to hang out with Armorshell . . . .

 

[SoCalDent]

Did we? Well, regardless of the financial debate UoP is a great place. I am sure you will have fun there and get a great education. And you get to hang out with Armorshell . . . .

Is that a benefit or a drawback?