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I posted this information in the Pre-Allo forum and the people there were unable to control themselves and the thread was closed (I think prematurely before anyone actually caused any problems but I think they are hypersensitive). Apparently this information automatically sparks an MD vs. DO war, but I don't think it should. Whatever, I think it is very useful and interesting information that many people applying to med school would like to know.
Let me be clear, because there was confusion in the other thread apparently, I by no means am saying that MCAT directly correlates with selectivity or that it is the only factor. Obviously that is not the case. Many would argue that with DO schools this is particularly true as some DO schools conspicuously weigh intangible factors more than MCAT/GPA. I am only posting this info because I believe that MCAT is the only standardized admissions factor which is quantifiable and can be equally compared across schools... GPA varies too much from school to school based on geography, in state preference, what the characteristics of the applicant population are etc. Other factors are far too variable to be used as points of comparison. So instead of the general term "selectivity" I will refer to this as "MCAT-selectivity".
I also understand there are many subtle facets to this data, and if you changed this or that (like MD schools with instate preference changing to allow OOS applicants etc.) there are likely swings in the MCAT averages. But, as the data stands, it shows that the average student at certain DO schools has a higher MCAT score than the average student at certain MD schools. That alone, may be an interesting fact to some. Also, with the rise in MCAT scores in many DO schools (for example, Touro-CA seems to have a full 1 pt. jump each year, and others are also rising fast) the MCAT average is expected to jump again next year and probably the year after so the list of MD schools with lower MCAT averages than the top MCAT-average DO schools will get longer (assuming these MD schools' MCAT averages don't also jump up as quickly as the DO schools').
Also, I'd like to have a discussion about where you think the average MCAT will level off for the top MCAT-selective DO schools. I thought about this a little bit myself and I think you really have to get inside the head of the students who apply to both MD and DO schools, yet choose DO schools currently either because they don't get into any MD schools or because they pick the DO school over MD schools due to some factor like location, wanting OMM training, preferring the DO designation specifically etc. Geography likely plays a strong role... DO schools would, in my opinion, be unlikely to surpass nearby MD schools' average MCAT score, but could tie it if conditions were right (flooded market of qualified applicants all wanting to stay in that location). So perhaps the cap for MCAT scores would vary widely based on what the nearby MD schools' MCAT averages are. Let me know what you think...
the data:
The new, updated USNews medical school rankings which contain all the new admissions data (GPA and MCAT) for the class entering Fall 2008 shows that the most selective DO schools have surpassed multiple U.S. MD schools with regard to average MCAT score for the most recent entering class. To access the full data, you need a subscription to the USNews website which costs $15, but I'll paste the relevant info below.
Here are the top DO schools' average MCAT scores for the class entering in Fall 2008 (enrolled students):
Western University: 9.3
Touro University (CA): 9.3
University of North Texas: 9.2
UMDNJ: 9.0
Univ. New England: 9.0
Des Moines Univ.: 9.0
Touro University (NY): 9.0*
* This school is not listed in USNews, but the MCAT data is listed on school website: http://www.touro.edu/med/demo2012.html
Here are the lowest MD schools' average MCAT scores for the class entering in Fall 2008 (enrolled students) (which all fall below the highest DO school, i.e. 9.3):
Meharry: ~7.5-9*
Morehouse: ~8-9*
Howard: 8.4
University of North Dakota: 9.1
Mercer University: 9.1
University of New Mexico: 9.2
* (not reported to USNews, but this website says 7.5 for Meharry and 8 for Morehouse, though these are probably a year old: http://www.mcattestscores.com/usmedicalschoolsmcatscoresGPA.html)
Here are the next set of MD schools which have average MCATs for class of 2008 (enrolled students) which are equal to, 0.1 pt. or 0.2 pts (or 0.6 pts overall) higher than the highest DO schools:
Northeastern Ohio Univ. College of Med: 9.3
University of South Carolina: 9.4
Florida State University: 9.4
Southern Illinious Univ.-Springfield: 9.4
East Carolina Univ. (Brody): 9.4
Univ. of Arkansas for Med. Sci: 9.4
University of Kansas Med Center: 9.5
Wright State Univ. (Boonshoft): 9.5
West Virginia Univ. 9.5
I believe that none of the Caribbean MD schools have MCATs over 9.0 and most are closer to 6-8. The highest is probably St. George which is ~8.67 (http://www.princetonreview.com/schools/medical/MedBasics.aspx?iid=1037718). Someone in the other thread did claim that St. George's has a 28/3.3 MCAT/GPA, so that would make it more like 9.3 than 8.67. No Caribbean schools are included in the USNews ranking/reporting so this data is less readily available for comparison.
Please do not devolve this into MD vs. DO flaming. This is supposed to be objective data which will be food for thought. There is no huge overall point to be made here... no one is claiming that DO schools are as hard to get into as MD schools on average (based on MCAT at least). All this is being shown is that the most MCAT-selective DO schools are higher with regard to average MCAT than the least MCAT-selective MD schools. Many will not be surprised by this, but some may. I would like for this thread to be used for useful discussion about this MCAT trend. I have no interest in arguments over which is better, MD vs. DO.
Let me be clear, because there was confusion in the other thread apparently, I by no means am saying that MCAT directly correlates with selectivity or that it is the only factor. Obviously that is not the case. Many would argue that with DO schools this is particularly true as some DO schools conspicuously weigh intangible factors more than MCAT/GPA. I am only posting this info because I believe that MCAT is the only standardized admissions factor which is quantifiable and can be equally compared across schools... GPA varies too much from school to school based on geography, in state preference, what the characteristics of the applicant population are etc. Other factors are far too variable to be used as points of comparison. So instead of the general term "selectivity" I will refer to this as "MCAT-selectivity".
I also understand there are many subtle facets to this data, and if you changed this or that (like MD schools with instate preference changing to allow OOS applicants etc.) there are likely swings in the MCAT averages. But, as the data stands, it shows that the average student at certain DO schools has a higher MCAT score than the average student at certain MD schools. That alone, may be an interesting fact to some. Also, with the rise in MCAT scores in many DO schools (for example, Touro-CA seems to have a full 1 pt. jump each year, and others are also rising fast) the MCAT average is expected to jump again next year and probably the year after so the list of MD schools with lower MCAT averages than the top MCAT-average DO schools will get longer (assuming these MD schools' MCAT averages don't also jump up as quickly as the DO schools').
Also, I'd like to have a discussion about where you think the average MCAT will level off for the top MCAT-selective DO schools. I thought about this a little bit myself and I think you really have to get inside the head of the students who apply to both MD and DO schools, yet choose DO schools currently either because they don't get into any MD schools or because they pick the DO school over MD schools due to some factor like location, wanting OMM training, preferring the DO designation specifically etc. Geography likely plays a strong role... DO schools would, in my opinion, be unlikely to surpass nearby MD schools' average MCAT score, but could tie it if conditions were right (flooded market of qualified applicants all wanting to stay in that location). So perhaps the cap for MCAT scores would vary widely based on what the nearby MD schools' MCAT averages are. Let me know what you think...
the data:
The new, updated USNews medical school rankings which contain all the new admissions data (GPA and MCAT) for the class entering Fall 2008 shows that the most selective DO schools have surpassed multiple U.S. MD schools with regard to average MCAT score for the most recent entering class. To access the full data, you need a subscription to the USNews website which costs $15, but I'll paste the relevant info below.
Here are the top DO schools' average MCAT scores for the class entering in Fall 2008 (enrolled students):
Western University: 9.3
Touro University (CA): 9.3
University of North Texas: 9.2
UMDNJ: 9.0
Univ. New England: 9.0
Des Moines Univ.: 9.0
Touro University (NY): 9.0*
* This school is not listed in USNews, but the MCAT data is listed on school website: http://www.touro.edu/med/demo2012.html
Here are the lowest MD schools' average MCAT scores for the class entering in Fall 2008 (enrolled students) (which all fall below the highest DO school, i.e. 9.3):
Meharry: ~7.5-9*
Morehouse: ~8-9*
Howard: 8.4
University of North Dakota: 9.1
Mercer University: 9.1
University of New Mexico: 9.2
* (not reported to USNews, but this website says 7.5 for Meharry and 8 for Morehouse, though these are probably a year old: http://www.mcattestscores.com/usmedicalschoolsmcatscoresGPA.html)
Here are the next set of MD schools which have average MCATs for class of 2008 (enrolled students) which are equal to, 0.1 pt. or 0.2 pts (or 0.6 pts overall) higher than the highest DO schools:
Northeastern Ohio Univ. College of Med: 9.3
University of South Carolina: 9.4
Florida State University: 9.4
Southern Illinious Univ.-Springfield: 9.4
East Carolina Univ. (Brody): 9.4
Univ. of Arkansas for Med. Sci: 9.4
University of Kansas Med Center: 9.5
Wright State Univ. (Boonshoft): 9.5
West Virginia Univ. 9.5
I believe that none of the Caribbean MD schools have MCATs over 9.0 and most are closer to 6-8. The highest is probably St. George which is ~8.67 (http://www.princetonreview.com/schools/medical/MedBasics.aspx?iid=1037718). Someone in the other thread did claim that St. George's has a 28/3.3 MCAT/GPA, so that would make it more like 9.3 than 8.67. No Caribbean schools are included in the USNews ranking/reporting so this data is less readily available for comparison.
Please do not devolve this into MD vs. DO flaming. This is supposed to be objective data which will be food for thought. There is no huge overall point to be made here... no one is claiming that DO schools are as hard to get into as MD schools on average (based on MCAT at least). All this is being shown is that the most MCAT-selective DO schools are higher with regard to average MCAT than the least MCAT-selective MD schools. Many will not be surprised by this, but some may. I would like for this thread to be used for useful discussion about this MCAT trend. I have no interest in arguments over which is better, MD vs. DO.
