Moving to the States...what else can a foreign trained Pharmacist do?

[TotalNewbie]

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Hi all,

Please be kind when responding to this post. I am genuinely looking for advice here. 🙂

I am a third-world country trained pharmacist who is moving to the States (Virginia to be precise) around April next year. In my home country, I am a licensed and practicing Pharmacist who works for the government. Needless to say, the pay sucks 🙁 Also, my country made the really idiotic decision to allow techs to dispense (I KNOW, WTF!!) so that has made pharmacy a commodity-driven practice here and I'm just fed up of defending myself and the practice as a whole. These and a few other reasons fueled my decision to leave.

I currently work in a psychiatric hospital, and have also worked in a HIV setting (about 2 years total work experience). My training was 4 years followed by a 1 yr internship. This doesn't allow me to take the FPGEC (the pharmacy equivalence exam). The post-traditional PharmD programs being offered in various Uni's in States hold no appeal to me, mainly coz the fees are outrageous. 😡

I have been following most of the threads on this forum keenly, but I can't seem to find a way to go about the move. I have considered going to Canada to do my PharmD from there for 2 reasons: 1. It is cheaper than the US 2. Its post-baccalaureate and post-registration so I can actually earn some money as I work, unlike the US.

Now, my specific questions are:

1. If I decide to go the Canadian route, is it harder to get a job with a foreign PharmD as opposed to a local one? I'm aware I may have to take the FPGEC after the Canada stint (?) but after that, what next? Interested in a PGY-2 residency in Psychiatry, is that also harder with a foreign PharmD?
2. What else can I do with my BPharm without going into registration as a RPh?

Any comments/suggestions will be highly appreciated.

PS: Staying here is not an option so please don't suggest I stay put.

 

[quartel]

For working in Canada you might want to contact the PEBC. I see that you are a Bpharm graduate but you should tell us which country you studied in.

Again, contact PEBC and phone/email them about whether you can get equivalency. If you are from a 3rd world nation then most likely the answer will be no. They will tell you to go to pharmacy school there or do a masters course or something. Even if you were from a 1st world nation, getting equivalency in Canada is no picnic. They make the entire process expensive, time consuming and practically impossible.

Don't believe a word I said, talk to someone from the PEBC: http://www.pebc.ca/EnglishPages/General/HomePage.html

 

[TotalNewbie]

Contact PEBC and phone/email them about whether you can get equivalency.

I did send them an email and they responded (much sooner than expected) and said that they have no problem with my BPharm, but they did say that the final decision will only be reached after my document submission. However, a couple of people from my school do work there so equivalency may not be the issue.

They make the entire process expensive, time consuming and practically impossible.

This is actually the problem here, talking about USD 800 or so just to get equivalence. Then the boards begin..... However, this doesn't daunt me coz my education is pretty solid. The timeline is also very worrying, it reads something like this (best case scenario):

Year 1: Equivalence evaluation & exams
Year 2: Qualifying examinations part 1
Year 3: Qualifying examinations part 2
Year 4: Apply for PharmD (really difficult to get into as they only take about 20 students per school, and give priority to their territories)
Year 5: Start PharmD/reapply for PharmD
Year 6: Complete PharmD
Year 7: Do FPGEC in the US........
Year 8: PGY-2 Residency (with any luck!!)

As you can see, this is quickly heading off into 10 years, even in the best case scenario. This is why I would really like to know what else a pharmacist can do in the States apart from clinical practice.

By the way, I also have an MBA, but again from my native country. (Might as well wipe my *ss with it 😉)

What do you think?

 

[quartel]

well, if your bpharm is acceptable in Canada then you should go that way. Best case scenario you'll have equivalency in less time than 10 years lol.

I'm curious though - which country are you from? Because I don't really know your circumstances. What your pay is like etc.

Finding employment in Canada is no joke either. You'll likely be discriminated against in competitive urban areas. They might even say something ridiculous like "you don't have any Canadian experience" which is a cover for blatant racism. Most likely you would have to work in a rural setting away from the cities which would be less competitive to get into with better pay.

I'm sure you are intelligent enough to weigh out the cost to benefit ratio for yourself. I'm just warning you it's really tough to get your foot in the door in a place like Canada. I wish you the best.

 

[TotalNewbie]

I'm curious though - which country are you from? Because I don't really know your circumstances. What your pay is like etc.

I'm pretty sorry I can't put that here just in-case my boss shows up on this forum. It'd be a dead give-away, since we only have one psychiatric hospital. 🙁 However, my country has about 2,500 registered pharmacists to a population of 40 million. These are barely enough but the law was changed about 2 years ago to allow techs to dispense and this led the profession down the drain. To boot, now all the NGO's prefer to employ techs for those roles that require dispensing (including ARV's, can you imagine!) and only hire pharmacists in legal/administrative/formulation roles.

Average annual pay in USD: Government- 9,000 Retail: 11,000 NGO:15,000. Net payrise in any of the above of about 1,000 per year.

Working conditions are sh***y: Manual stock records, no drug trials etc. since we mainly compound generics, Reference literature hard to come by, Access to journals and cutting edge protocol decent thanks to the WHO-Hinari Initiative (google it 🙂), implementation and access to medicines and technology non-existent.... you get the picture.

Finding employment in Canada is no joke either. You'll likely be discriminated against in competitive urban areas. They might even say something ridiculous like "you don't have any Canadian experience" which is a cover for blatant racism. Most likely you would have to work in a rural setting away from the cities which would be less competitive to get into with better pay......really tough to get your foot in the door in a place like Canada.

Worrying. Especially since I'm Black African. This is why it's plan B.

Ideas on what else I can do with my BPharm as opposed to getting RPh'd?

 

[quartel]

it's really scary how the government can swiftly destroy the pharmacy profession so easily. This is what motivates me to invest in a business once I start earning money.

I can think of a few places like the UK, Ireland or Australia but the profession is steadily going down the tubes in these countries as well. Countries like Australia in particular are now close to impossible to acquire permanent residency because of recent immigration reform. Honestly Canada is not a bad idea as long as:

1) getting equivalency is achievable (money and time-wise)
2) you are willing to work rurally, possibly outside Ontario and British Columbia where the demand for pharmacists is higher. If the demand for workers is high they will hire you regardless of your ethnicity. Most 1st world pharmacists dread the idea of working rurally as well believe it or not. Besides, getting permanent residency in Canada is very easy.

Other than becoming a registered pharmacist I'm not sure what other career options there are unless you are interested in getting a phd and becoming an academic or something. Based on your command of English I think your probability of success is high. The only concern is whether you have enough money to support yourself in a foreign country and paying all these ridiculous equivalency fees.

 

[TotalNewbie]

True. Pharmacy has gone down the tubes in most countries. My colleague is moving down to Australia, but it has been no peach either. He had to get his documents evaluated, do an equivalence exam, apply for state sponsorship and then apply for PR. Not a cheap or short process. And now, pharmacists are no longer on the critical skills list there so emigrating there= nightmare.

Still looking for alternate uses for a BPharm since if I go to Canada, that essentially means giving up my PR status in the US which I'm not sure I'm ready to do. I'd much rather the American people, systems, culture and weather to Canadian any day. 😍

What else do BPharm's or PharmD's do in the US apart from hospital/retail pharmacy? Is it a requirement to be a RPh to work in industry?

 

[bacillus1]

True. Pharmacy has gone down the tubes in most countries. My colleague is moving down to Australia, but it has been no peach either. He had to get his documents evaluated, do an equivalence exam, apply for state sponsorship and then apply for PR. Not a cheap or short process. And now, pharmacists are no longer on the critical skills list there so emigrating there= nightmare.

Still looking for alternate uses for a BPharm since if I go to Canada, that essentially means giving up my PR status in the US which I'm not sure I'm ready to do. I'd much rather the American people, systems, culture and weather to Canadian any day. 😍

What else do BPharm's or PharmD's do in the US apart from hospital/retail pharmacy? Is it a requirement to be a RPh to work in industry?

No such thing as a BPharm anymore in the US. A PharmD is required to work in pretty much any field of pharmacy, unless you graduated with a US BPharm before the PharmD became mandatory. If your degree is only 4 years, I don't think you can go the foreign reevaluation route (as you previously stated), so your only option is to get a PharmD, which will be very expensive.

For the pharmaceutical industry, a PharmD isn't a "hard requirement", but it is strongly preferred, so with the current job market some kind of advanced degree (MS, PharmD, PhD) is essentially required. Maybe you could be a drug rep, I'm not sure. You can go on careerbuilder.com and see what the desired qualifications for pharmaceutical sales representative are in various help wanted ads.

There are jobs in the US that you could do with any college degree, so your BPharm might suffice. Of course they are usually not at all related to pharmacy. For instance you could be a window salesman. I keep seeing help wanted ads for people that want to sell windows, or carpet. You could be a pharmacy tech, but those get paid very little. That's about it.

 

[TotalNewbie]

....That's about it.....

Thanks y'all for the candid feedback. If anyone can think of any pharmacy-related use for a BPharm, I'll be watching the thread. 🙂

Off to careerbuilder for now.

 

[CUpharmD2013]

Thanks y'all for the candid feedback. If anyone can think of any pharmacy-related use for a BPharm, I'll be watching the thread. 🙂

Off to careerbuilder for now.

I used to work in industry and many of my colleagues had BPharms. It's a chaotic industry these days, and I think that they're more focused on more specialized backgrounds, but the East Coast is the place to be. Look into Pfizer, Bristol Myers, Glaxo, Merck, Johnson & Johnson, etc.

 

[longhornatheart]

Have you considered working in Pharmacy Informatics or pursuing a Certificate or Masters in the field? There are several schools that offer this degree including the opportunity to do it remotely. Examples include and are not limited to UIC or The University of Texas Health Science Center in Houston though you would establish better relationships with the professors if you do your coursework in person.

This could perhaps allow you to do research on electronic medical records such as cost benefit analysis on CPOE, eMAR, and Pharmacy systems or time studies. One professor at UT Houston focuses on interface design for these various systems such as Epic and Cerner to see how intuitive they are for the clinician.

You may also consider working for one of the healthcare IT vendors as a consultant if you are willing to travel. Or become an analyst at a hospital utilizing evidence-based guidelines in standardized order protocols that are then translated into the computer system.

 

[TotalNewbie]

Liking the ideas that are coming up. Thanks CUpharmD2013 and longhornatheart. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/member.php?u=290503

 

[pezdispenser]

Do an international PharmD program like at Nova Southeastern University. If you have a green card you can get student loans to cover tuition and expenses. I know you already balked at the cost but your financial position after graduation will be the same or even better than American pharmacists. The cost of education is one of the reasons why American pharmacist salaries are so high. (You need to pay to play)...

 

[TotalNewbie]

You need to pay to play...

👍 This cracked me up! True.

Slowly beginning to weigh this option. Quite a drag to have to re-do a lot of the stuff, but it would be cool to learn the American laws relating to Pharmacy and to hone my clinical skills, especially in oncology, critical care, clinical trials and emergency. We have non-existent hands on-training in these areas for obvious reasons, and my practicing in a Psychiatric setting has not helped. 🙂