MPH in Med School or After?

[thegreengreatdragon]

I searched and found some helpful information in previous threads, but haven't found an answer for my particular situation.
I'm an M1, and I have a definite interest in public health. For me, it's not a matter of if I should get an MPH but when. I know that an MPH won't really help me much on the match, but I worry that once I start working, it'll be difficult for me to go back to school to get my MPH.
It would be an additional year (which, to be honest, I'd prefer to finish my four years of school and jump straight into residency, but I'd be willing to do that extra year if necessary), plus, I might have to do some finagling to make the program work for me, because I'm at a regional campus and the MD/MPH option is currently only offered at the main medical campus (I don't anticipate any real issues, just emailing admins and filling out a bunch of paperwork).
The benefits would be motivation (if I'm working, it'll be hard to get myself to get a new degree) and potential extension of my scholarship into that extra year. I don't know how expensive an MPH program would maybe be in the future when I don't have a scholarship.
I was just wondering if anyone with this experience had any input. Right now, my gut is to put off the MPH until later in my career (because I'm also maybe thinking preventative or occ med residency/fellowship in the future, and I know an MPH is usually built into those).

tl;dr: For those who have an MPH, when did you get it and why?

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[frosted2]

Not helpful, but your avatar is hilarious.

I am about 3 courses away from completing my MPH. If anything, it has made me more aware of the social determinants of health, the serious consequences of poverty in healthcare, and the seriousness of the lack of health literacy in in the US. It has been quite the eye-opener.

 

[Aurum]

I did my MPH prior to medical school, but I would strongly advise doing it while in medical school rather than later. Having that extra degree will help you (a lot, in my experience) in the match regardless of specialty. That extra year during medical school will offer plenty of extra time to shore up your CV and residency application as well.

Shifting gears from clinical work to being a student again will be tough, particularly during residency when you are trying to foster the competence to become an independent clinician. Trying to get a graduate degree during residency will be difficult and possibly detrimental to your training.

 

[libertyyne]

I did my MPH prior to medical school, but I would strongly advise doing it while in medical school rather than later. Having that extra degree will help you (a lot, in my experience) in the match regardless of specialty. That extra year during medical school will offer plenty of extra time to shore up your CV and residency application as well.

Shifting gears from clinical work to being a student again will be tough, particularly during residency when you are trying to foster the competence to become an independent clinician. Trying to get a graduate degree during residency will be difficult and possibly detrimental to your training.

Did it help you during match?

The reason I ask is second degrees are constantly correlated with failure to match compared to applicants without second degrees.


OP,
IMO an MPH and MBA are useless unless you have an idea on how you want to use those degrees after medical school. Furthermore you are delaying a year of earning and paying extra tuition (minus scholarship). There are some residency programs that have affiliated MPH programs that will alow you to complete the program for free. Or your employer could even potentially foot the bill for it.

 

[sunshinefl]

Did it help you during match?

The reason I ask is second degrees are constantly correlated with failure to match compared to applicants without second degrees.


OP,
IMO an MPH and MBA are useless unless you have an idea on how you want to use those degrees after medical school. Furthermore you are delaying a year of earning and paying extra tuition (minus scholarship). There are some residency programs that have affiliated MPH programs that will alow you to complete the program for free. Or your employer could even potentially foot the bill for it.

I could see that correlation going 2 ways,

1-students repeating years/delaying licensing exams/etc take up a dual degree during that time (already a greater Match risk)

2-extra commitments to the dual degree cause a suffering of course grades/licensing exams/course completion/class rank/etc.

I attempted to do the dual MPH at my school (no time extension, part time MPH throughout, supposed to complete both in the original 4 years). It didn’t work out well. My medical class grades suffered immensely. The information in the MPH was very interesting and important to me. But I hated the endless parade of application of the info for fake projects/group presentations. And of course the time commitment causing my exam grades to suffer in my core program. So I dropped it.

 

[libertyyne]

I could see that correlation going 2 ways,

1-students repeating years/delaying licensing exams/etc take up a dual degree during that time (already a greater Match risk)

2-extra commitments to the dual degree cause a suffering of course grades/licensing exams/course completion/class rank/etc.

I attempted to do the dual MPH at my school (no time extension, part time MPH throughout, supposed to complete both in the original 4 years). It didn’t work out well. My medical class grades suffered immensely. The information in the MPH was very interesting and important to me. But I hated the endless parade of application of the info for fake projects/group presentations. And of course the time commitment causing my exam grades to suffer in my core program. So I dropped it.

Thats interesting, I never quite thought of the second bucket of med school grades suffering because of it. I just assumed it was because weaker students tend to get the grad degrees prior to matriculation, and bad study habits that got them there in the first place dont change. I have a graduate degree, and I am not expecting it to open any additional doors residency application times unless I apply IM or fm where it would be tangentially useful.

 

[Aurum]

Did it help you during match?

The reason I ask is second degrees are constantly correlated with failure to match compared to applicants without second degrees.


OP,
IMO an MPH and MBA are useless unless you have an idea on how you want to use those degrees after medical school. Furthermore you are delaying a year of earning and paying extra tuition (minus scholarship). There are some residency programs that have affiliated MPH programs that will alow you to complete the program for free. Or your employer could even potentially foot the bill for it.

Yeah it helped. It allowed me to get involved with some research projects were interesting and that I wouldn't necessarily have been able to pursue without my MPH. Furthermore, the degree and my public health experience provided great talking points during interviews and distinguished my application from my peers. PDs from multiple departments/specialties that I spoke with commented that having that extra degree gave me an additional competitive edge for applications.

OP sounds very interested in public health so I don't think the degree will be a waste for him/her. I do agree that trying to complete MPH coursework and medical school courses concurrently can be fraught unless the student is particularly strong, but I assume that OP is referring to a dedicated MPH year.

 

[libertyyne]

Yeah it helped. It allowed me to get involved with some research projects were interesting and that I wouldn't necessarily have been able to pursue without my MPH. Furthermore, the degree and my public health experience provided great talking points during interviews and distinguished my application from my peers. PDs from multiple departments/specialties that I spoke with commented that having that extra degree gave me an additional competitive edge for applications.

OP sounds very interested in public health so I don't think the degree will be a waste for him/her. I do agree that trying to complete MPH coursework and medical school courses concurrently can be fraught unless the student is particularly strong, but I assume that OP is referring to a dedicated MPH year.

Could you share what specialty you were interviewing for?
My initial assessment was based on this

obviously it is prone with bias of weaker students having grad degrees prior to matriculation. And the NRMP PD survey doesnt even have graduate degree listed as an important characteristic on the PD survey.

 

[Aurum]

Could you share what specialty you were interviewing for?
My initial assessment was based on this
View attachment 240769
obviously it is prone with bias of weaker students having grad degrees prior to matriculation. And the NRMP PD survey doesnt even have graduate degree listed as an important characteristic on the PD survey.

Diagnostic rads.

 

[Tenk]

MPH would be easiest as an attending. Not only will you have a massive knowledge base as a foundation but you’ll have way more free time than medical school and residency.

 

[Espressso]

OP, just a second year here. But ideally, I plan on doing my MPH after residency. @Tenk makes a good point about waiting until attending-level. I've always had my eyes on doing it during fellowship. I've heard mutiple people talk to me about having fellowships actually fund your MPH. Especially if it's pretty well-known between you and your fellowship that after the completion of your fellowship, you'll be added on as an attending. It's beneficial for them for you to get it.

If you're interested in that population-based medicine, I think it's an amazing idea to get your MPH. It can only help your career and you practice.

 

[takeurmeds02]

I'm getting my MPH concurrent with my MD and I'm absolutely glad to get it out of the way now but honestly, it just depends.

You've heard the gamut in terms of doing it now, doing it in residency, and doing it as an attending. I'd hate having to do it as a resident. The upside to getting it in medical school is that you're constantly in "school-mode" and I'd venture to say that medical school is much less time-intensive than residency. More of your time is yours in medical school without having to be at work/daily conferences/meetings/etc.

It might work as an Attending as a way to switch up the tempo but that's quite some time from now.

All of this talk about it hindering your chances in applying for residency likely doesn't tease out the real issue. I'd find it hard to believe that a student who has no red flags but who just took an extra year to get a professional degree, will have difficulty matching by the sheer nature of having an extra degree. After speaking with multiple students who came out of my same dual-degree program, they've said that it only helped them standout and provide fodder for conversation.

I know this doesn't add much more to the pot but I'd say go with the cheapest, most efficient option.

 

[thegreengreatdragon]

Wow, I was not expecting this good of a response to my question haha. Thanks all around.

Not helpful, but your avatar is hilarious.

Thanks! I love it. I use it for everything.

I did my MPH prior to medical school, but I would strongly advise doing it while in medical school rather than later. Having that extra degree will help you (a lot, in my experience) in the match regardless of specialty. That extra year during medical school will offer plenty of extra time to shore up your CV and residency application as well.

Shifting gears from clinical work to being a student again will be tough, particularly during residency when you are trying to foster the competence to become an independent clinician. Trying to get a graduate degree during residency will be difficult and possibly detrimental to your training.

Diagnostic rads.

I don't think I would do it during residency. I'd maybe wait until I got to a fellowship, like @EspressoDrip42 was saying. Nonetheless, the points you make are really good. I don't think I'll rule the MD/MPH thing out quite yet (and yes, since I guess I wasn't clear on this, the program has a dedicated MPH year built in between 3rd and 4th year--which also means I have a lot of time to make a final decision)
I think it's interesting you're in rads, because someone else mentioned going into IR with humanities research that apparently a lot of PDs found interesting. Do they just want more well-rounded people in radiology?
Also, is there any direct application of your MPH in radiology? I'm asking because I find radiology an attractive field, but I wasn't sure if I could really foster my interest in public health if I went into rads.

Ultimately, I think I'll have to make some inquires. Like I said, I don't even know if this is option for me, since I'm not based at the main campus. But I think I'd have to agree with @teeayejay that the best option might be the one that's cheapest and most efficient. Either way, what you guys have said has convinced me that getting an MPH is definitely worth it and that residency is a bad time to get it.
(Also, it's really encouraging to hear so many people say that an MPH is really valuable, because I feel like I tell a lot of people that I'm interested in an MPH and they're like "why???")

 

[Aurum]

Do they just want more well-rounded people in radiology?
Also, is there any direct application of your MPH in radiology?

Well-rounded people are sought after in every specialty, radiology is no different.

As for direct applications of public health into radiology, there are plenty including screening (e.g. mammography), imaging utilization, etc. An MPH (particularly with an emphasis in biostats) affords you knowledge of study design and stats that is useful for research in any specialty.

 

[libertyyne]

Well-rounded people are sought after in every specialty, radiology is no different.

As for direct applications of public health into radiology, there are plenty including screening (e.g. mammography), imaging utilization, etc. An MPH (particularly with an emphasis in biostats) affords you knowledge of study design and stats that is useful for research in any specialty.

just a question? wouldnt we see higher rates of matches of candidates with graduate degree's if they were sought after?

 

[Espressso]

just a question? wouldnt we see higher rates of matches of candidates with graduate degree's if they were sought after?

I don't think it's that simple. Many other confounding variables, no?

 

[libertyyne]

I don't think it's that simple. Many other confounding variables, no?

you would think that being sought after would reduce the impact of confounding variables that may be negatively associated with match. If the positive impact on one's application would be significant .

 

[thegreengreatdragon]

Well-rounded people are sought after in every specialty, radiology is no different.

As for direct applications of public health into radiology, there are plenty including screening (e.g. mammography), imaging utilization, etc. An MPH (particularly with an emphasis in biostats) affords you knowledge of study design and stats that is useful for research in any specialty.

I never thought about it that way. Thanks for the insight!

 

[Tozanzibarbymotorcar]

Can anyone recommend some MPH programs that one can enroll in remotely while in med school?

 

[thegreengreatdragon]

just a question? wouldnt we see higher rates of matches of candidates with graduate degree's if they were sought after?

Aurum said "well-rounded people," not "people with graduate degrees."

 

[pcj1101]

I'm getting my MPH while in med school. I figured, like others have said, that I'd want to get it while still in school mode. I have no regrets doing it that way! I take some MPH classes online through the school year, so it means that you have to be more structured with your time than your classmates may have to be if you choose to do that, so keep that in mind, as that was quite an adjustment when I started my MPH classes. Just don't overload yourself, particularly around dedicated board studying time.

I've found that I've had an increased awareness of specific topics that I've discussed in my MPH classes since starting - healthcare disparities, insurance/ACA issues, project/process evaluation. It has helped shape how I feel I'd like to use an MPH in the future!

Good luck!

 

[takeurmeds02]

you would think that being sought after would reduce the impact of confounding variables that may be negatively associated with match. If the positive impact on one's application would be significant .

I don't think anyone's saying that you'll be bounds and leaps over other applicants but you as a PD, wouldn't you be interested in bringing on someone with a graduate degree and particular expertise that otherwise has pretty decent or stellar MD stats? What would be the drawback? None.

I think the reason why the data is represented as such is largely due to individuals who had to take a year off because things didn't work out as planned - typically these students have other red flags (poor preclinicals, poor step, late-switch of specialties, actual leave of absence that's labeled a "research year", who knows)

Finally, the reality is that most MD students just don't. Not everyone is interested in an MPH/MBA/JD/etc. It's very time intensive.