mph vs. hard science masters

[JeetKuneDo]

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It's probably been discussed before, but what's everyone's view on this?

 

[edfig99]

well if it's been discussed before, it means you could probably use the search feature and find the answers.

what's the question?

 

[talkalot24]

It depends. If you need to do it for GPA purposes, especially a poor science GPA, then definitely the science masters. If you just want to do something useful in the interim, MPH!

 

[armybound]

which one are you more interested in?

 

[236116]

MPH: good if you're interested in it and can go on at length.
Masters in something else: Ditto.

 

[PlatinumPenny]

have you looked into an MPH in Epidemiology or Biostatistics?

 

[Mobius1985]

Here is the perspective of one of our regular admssions committee members:

Other graduate degrees such as MPH (Masters of Public Health), MBA (Master of Business Administration and MS (Master of Science) in any field do not raise your uGPA or make you that much more competitive for medical school. These degrees are a means to an end within themselves and are useful if you want to obtain these types of masters degrees. You also need to complete them before matriculation into medical school thus, many medical schools will not interview you unless you are either finished or very close to finishing. Again, these degrees are not going to make you more competitive for medical school if you were not competitive before undertaking these degrees.

You also need to be aware that grade inflation is rampant in graduate school which means that your grades need to be very high. You need a minimum 3.0 average to stay in graduate school and you need to be well above 3.5 to be considered a strong performer. In graduate school, it is assumed that you are studying subject matter that you love and have strong interest in and thus you need to do very well. In the end, your graduate work (outside of an SMP) will be weighted about the same as an extracurricular activity.

 

[edfig99]

as another adcom-er, agree 100%
if you're going to do it, do it because you like the subject matter...not for competitiveness to med school.

Here is the perspective of one of our regular admssions committee members:

 

[LizzyM]

^ Make that three of us who agree.

 

[smp33]

hey guys
would anyone be able to tell me a little bit about the Temple SMP that was listed on the post bacc site? i have a not so great gpa (3.3) and i am prob gonna be reapplying to medical school next term, so im considering 3 smp's..cincinnati, georgetown, and temple because its close to home. but i dont know much about it in terms of how helpful it is for reapplicants, i know the other two are fairly reputable programs

thanks!

 

[Deleted member 237747]

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[JeetKuneDo]

I'm leaning toward an mph at the moment, my sci gpa isnt too bad and it seems much more interesting and much more useful than a hard science masters.

 

[Typical Premed]

I'm aware that a masters doesn't compensate for a poor MCAT or GPA, but what role does a research based masters degree play in terms of ECs. In my case my GPA and MCAT are already very high but I did a masters because I was very interested in the subject and I've always enjoyed doing research. I'm doing my research on ADHD in the psychiatry department at a pediatric hospital and as part of my research I spend a substantial amount of time working one-on-one with ADHD patients, dealing with psychiatrists, observing psychiatric assessments etc. How would the adcom consider this type of masters experience, would it be just considered research or clinical/research? Does it play a neutral role or could it make a positive impact on the application?

 

[halekulani]

obviously if you wanted an MPH b/c you were truly interested in the subject, it would help you.

getting an MPH just to get into medical school is kind of useless

if you really do want an MPH, why not just do an MD/MPH? most schools if not all will offer you the MPH program in conjunction if you are accepted

 

[scarletgirl777]

obviously if you wanted an MPH b/c you were truly interested in the subject, it would help you.

getting an MPH just to get into medical school is kind of useless

if you really do want an MPH, why not just do an MD/MPH? most schools if not will offer you the MPH program in conjunction if you are accepted

This is why I never understood people who took 2 gap years off to get an MPH before medical school. If you're really passionate about public health, you save a year and some money by doing the 5 year program. I think that most of the people who take 2 years off before med school (at least the ones I've met) didn't understand that the MPH would not compensate in any way for a poor GPA.

 

[Mobius1985]

what role does a research based masters degree play in terms of ECs.

. . . as part of my research I spend a substantial amount of time working one-on-one with ADHD patients, dealing with psychiatrists, observing psychiatric assessments etc.

. . . could it make a positive impact on the application?

Opportunities you have access to, due to being in a masters program, can certainly help your application. Research is research, however you acquire it. That is also seems to be additional clinical experience and (in a way) shadowing, is frosting on the cake. I believe it would have a positive impact.

 

[URHere]

I'm aware that a masters doesn't compensate for a poor MCAT or GPA, but what role does a research based masters degree play in terms of ECs. How would the adcom consider this type of masters experience, would it be just considered research or clinical/research? Does it play a neutral role or could it make a positive impact on the application?

I went through a condensed 1-year research-based MS before applying to medical school, and I think that this helped me immensely when it came time to talk about research experience (and that topic comes up a good deal during MD/PhD interviews), but minimally with respect to everything else. In your case, your experience increases your web of clinical experience as well, which is definitely a good thing. As our SDN adcoms have said before, your graduate GPA itself won't help your application much, if at all, but true, independent research experience can be very valuable. In addition, students generally get to know their PIs very well if they spend that much time together, which can lead to a very insightful, and usually very positive LOR.

True, your program probably won't overhaul your application and cast it in a surreal glowing light, but it certainly won't hurt.

Just one thing: when you interview, make it clear to your interviewers that your MS is research based. When I interviewed, many of my interviewers assumed that my MS was solely obtained through coursework even though I described my thesis project in my application. Their outlooks on the value of the degree seemed to change measurably when they realized that it had been a much more in-depth experience.

 

[diosa428]

I'm aware that a masters doesn't compensate for a poor MCAT or GPA, but what role does a research based masters degree play in terms of ECs. In my case my GPA and MCAT are already very high but I did a masters because I was very interested in the subject and I've always enjoyed doing research. I'm doing my research on ADHD in the psychiatry department at a pediatric hospital and as part of my research I spend a substantial amount of time working one-on-one with ADHD patients, dealing with psychiatrists, observing psychiatric assessments etc. How would the adcom consider this type of masters experience, would it be just considered research or clinical/research? Does it play a neutral role or could it make a positive impact on the application?

It will only count as one experience, but will probably help you write a great PS. Additionally, having research experience is often helpful in the app process, as most students have it.

 

[diosa428]

This is why I never understood people who took 2 gap years off to get an MPH before medical school. If you're really passionate about public health, you save a year and some money by doing the 5 year program. I think that most of the people who take 2 years off before med school (at least the ones I've met) didn't understand that the MPH would not compensate in any way for a poor GPA.

Actually, it makes the most sense to do an MPH during residency, not medical school. A lot of residency programs actually fund your MPH, so it is free. Additionally, since there are so many tracks you can choose when pursuing an MPH, and with the high rate of students changing their mind about what field they want, it makes the most sense to wait until you're actually IN that field, and then choose which track would be most beneficial to your career.

 

[eagle34]

Actually, it makes the most sense to do an MPH during residency, not medical school. A lot of residency programs actually fund your MPH, so it is free. Additionally, since there are so many tracks you can choose when pursuing an MPH, and with the high rate of students changing their mind about what field they want, it makes the most sense to wait until you're actually IN that field, and then choose which track would be most beneficial to your career.

Some residencies, such as surgery, will usually not fund your MPH degree. I'm MD/MPH because the MPH is only a one year program, you can concentrate in a field that interests you, and you get a pretty big discount from the MD program. To me, that makes the most sense.

 

[Pedsbro]

hey guys
would anyone be able to tell me a little bit about the Temple SMP that was listed on the post bacc site? i have a not so great gpa (3.3) and i am prob gonna be reapplying to medical school next term, so im considering 3 smp's..cincinnati, georgetown, and temple because its close to home. but i dont know much about it in terms of how helpful it is for reapplicants, i know the other two are fairly reputable programs

thanks!

I did the Cinci SMP and it really helped (zero interviews first time I applied, but now 1 acceptance, 3 interviews (and counting) after SMP...no other changes whatsoever in my app). PM me if you want more info. I know about G-town's program also, so I can try to compare/contrast the 3 for you.

Do MS/MPH in a science subject, a high GPA there would prove the same thing what MSP will show. Many have done this before and saved $$$$.
SMP is really a cash cow for schools, does not guarantee anything, just gives a hope.

😕This is the worst advice I've ever seen regarding Masters programs...good grief.
A high GPA in an SMP will go much farther than a high GPA in an MPH/MS when it comes to doing one just for med school applications (to put it in the terms of Hale, it gives you more hope than a regular MS/MPH would). SMPs are shorter (most are 1 year) and therefore usually cheaper. Almost always, they allow you to take actual medical courses, sometimes even merged with the medical class (like Cinci's), which regular MS programs don't often allow you to do. You're eligible for the same federal aid as any other graduate degree program. If you do well, your chances increase dramatically. The flip side is that bombing an SMP is pretty much the nail in the coffin for med school apps, barring extreme circumstances. Lastly, NOTHING is guaranteed, no matter what you do to improve your app...

If you're deadset on doing a Masters for the sole purpose of improving your app to med school, I recommend an SMP. Certainly look at all your options, but that's my vote.

 

[diosa428]

Some residencies, such as surgery, will usually not fund your MPH degree. I'm MD/MPH because the MPH is only a one year program, you can concentrate in a field that interests you, and you get a pretty big discount from the MD program. To me, that makes the most sense.

The problem with most MD/MPH programs is that the student completes the MPH after 2nd year, when they haven't done their clinical rotations yet. If they were offered after 3rd year, I think it would make more sense.

 

[URHere]

The problem with most MD/MPH programs is that the student completes the MPH after 2nd year, when they haven't done their clinical rotations yet. If they were offered after 3rd year, I think it would make more sense.

Our school may be an exception, but here the MPH is completed between 3rd and 4th year.

 

[eagle34]

Our school may be an exception, but here the MPH is completed between 3rd and 4th year.

At my school, we do our MPH between 3rd and 4th year as well. I feel like at many schools where I interviewed, MPH was usually done between these years and it was not recommended to do it between 2nd and 3rd years.

 

[rkaz]

Actually, it makes the most sense to do an MPH during residency, not medical school. A lot of residency programs actually fund your MPH, so it is free. Additionally, since there are so many tracks you can choose when pursuing an MPH, and with the high rate of students changing their mind about what field they want, it makes the most sense to wait until you're actually IN that field, and then choose which track would be most beneficial to your career.

👍 I support this 1,000%. I am completing my MPH right now before starting med school... but if I had to do it all over again, this is exactly what I would do.

I picked an MPH track which seemed interesting to me at the time, but looking back... I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do when I joined. Doing it during residency would have been the best options. Plus, I could at least be making a salary and getting a free program.... as opposed to taking a $10-12/hour job while getting my MPH.

I didn't join an MPH program to look good for med school. I went into an MPH program because I wanted to see if I would enjoy public health work enough on its own instead of going to med school. However, after being in the MPH program and doing public health research, I am a million times over convinced that medicine in conjunction with public health is what I want to do, and not public health as a stand-alone.

So in a sense, I don't regret doing what I did, as I had some doubts about going to med school after undergraduate. I loved my undergraduate clinical experiences, but I wasn't sure if I should spend my life in health policy/education instead of clinical medicine. And it wouldn't have been good to go to med school if one isn't sure that is the right place. However, after doing a master's in public health, all doubt has been eliminated in my mind... I KNOW a career in medicine is exactly what I want. So no regrets, because I needed to do things this way.... but if one is sure about being a physician, then definitely do the MPH during med school or residency, as there is little sense to doing it before.

 

[montessori2md]

Pay attention to the adcoms!

1) If you have a GPA problem the only way to possibly fix that is add'l undergrad coursework (yes, you can do that, I did, but not to fix a gpa) and/or MCAT.
2) If you are just looking at what to do with your time, do what you WANT to do. Preferably that whatever will be something that will sound interesting in an interview. My fellow classmates spent glide years doing all sorts of bizarre things, ranging from social work with homeless to defense contracts. IMHO, their experiences helped them to get accepted because they entered school as "mature" "experienced" adults, rather than as kids who didn't have enough sense to run away screaming from an opportunity to sell your soul for 7+ years before getting a real job. 😀 That said, we have a pile of MS/MAs, and even a few phds in our class too.
3) Don't add to your debt.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

Does UCLA's masters in physiology count as a sort of unofficial smp? I went on the site and it says they take mcat.

 

[LizzyM]

Does UCLA's masters in physiology count as a sort of unofficial smp? I went on the site and it says they take mcat.

More likely, they see their potential student base as a few of the thousands of MCAT-takers who didn't get into med school or who decided not to apply at this time, or at all.