MS-III Anesthesia Advice

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gasknight

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Hi, thanks to all the contributors to this forum - it's been an amazing resource.

I've been researching residency programs as I have recently decided to pursue a career in anesthesia. I know that I am interested in matching a strong academic program as I think I'd enjoy a career in academia. MGH, Brigham, Duke, JHopkins come to mind. I'm making this post mainly for two reasons:

1. How can I advance my application for highly competitive programs such as these?
2. Per my stats below, am I an average applicant for these programs?

Thanks for your time; I'd appreciate any and all advice!

STEP1: 255+
Pubs: 1, 4 projects in the pipeline (only 1 anesthesia related)
Preclinical grades: Honors
Clinical grades: Honors so far
ECs: decent involvement, nothing spectacular

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Graduate from a high-tier high-pedigree U.S. medical school. Or, be able to walk on water.
 
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Don't forget to look at states which don't touch the Atlantic ocean. CCF, WashU, Michigan, Mayo, Vandy are also good programs too.
 
Don't forget to look at states which don't touch the Atlantic ocean. CCF, WashU, Michigan, Mayo, Vandy are also good programs too.

Thanks. I will certainly broaden my search. Just how competitive are the top 10 gas programs - and will graduating from an average state school affect my chances?

Here's my advice: pick another speciality. That is unless you enjoy supervising angry CRNAs for the rest of your career.

That sounds pretty terrible.
 
Apply to ten top programs. You can make out your list now. Pick ten name recognition programs. Then, pick another ten programs like Pitt, WashU, Emory, UT Southwestern, Michigan, UF, UNC, Wake, UVA and Michigan.

You will match at one of those 20 programs.

Here is a sample top ten list:

1. Brigham
2. Mass General
3. Johns Hopkins
4. Duke
5. Stanford
6. Mayo
7. UCSF
8. Virginia Mason
9. BID
10. NYC program like Cornell or Mt Sinai


By no means is the list above everyone's top ten but rather a sample of good programs.
 
Apply to ten top programs. You can make out your list now. Pick ten name recognition programs. Then, pick another ten programs like Pitt, WashU, Emory, UT Southwestern, Michigan, UF, UNC, Wake, UVA and Michigan.

You will match at one of those 20 programs.

Here is a sample top ten list:

1. Brigham
2. Mass General
3. Johns Hopkins
4. Duke
5. Stanford
6. Mayo
7. UCSF
8. Virginia Mason
9. BID
10. NYC program like Cornell or Mt Sinai


By no means is the list above everyone's top ten but rather a sample of good programs.

Thanks Blade.
 
Seems like you have the appropriate credentials to qualify for those programs. here are a few more things to consider:

-Have attendings that can write EXCELLENT letters of recommendations for you. Be sure to specify excellent when you ask. Some people may not want to refuse but at the same time may also not be truly able to write you an excellent letter.

-You will need a pretty decent personal statement

-You will need to interview well. I have met a lot of people who interviewed/went to these programs. There are plenty of students out there who have the grades, the ECs, the board scores AND the pleasant personality.

I am training at one of those "top ten" programs and I can tell you not everything came from what are widely considered "amazing schools." For my program it was what you've done with your time in school and how you present yourself during the interview day.
 
Thanks. I will certainly broaden my search. Just how competitive are the top 10 gas programs - and will graduating from an average state school affect my chances?



That sounds pretty terrible.

Well that's because anesthesia IS pretty terrible my man.
 
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Here's my advice: pick another speciality. That is unless you enjoy supervising angry CRNAs for the rest of your career.

How likely is this? I mean there are already independent CRNA practices out there. What is preventing these groups from metastasizing further? They are cheaper to employ afterall...
 
Nothing is preventing them. In 10 years, anesthesiologists will only do crappy cases, 90+% in an ACT model. There is no way around it, because there are/will be way too many anesthesiologists. The only way would be numerus clausus, which won't happen.

There won't be many independent CRNA groups either. Independent CRNAs will be AMC employees, just like anesthesiologists.

One of the reasons I am going into CCM is that I foresee a time in the near future when anesthesiologists will be happy just to have a job, any job. If I could go back 10 years, I would advise my young self to put even primary care ahead of anesthesia.

I wouldn't even go into medicine nowadays. For the same lack of numerus clausus, leading to constantly decreasing reimbursements and constantly increasing work stress.

The only solution is to boldly go where (almost) no man has gone before. Or not many (doctors), at least. Also known as BFE.
 
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Nothing is preventing them. In 10 years, anesthesiologists will only do crappy cases, 90+% in an ACT model. There is no way around it, because there are/will be way too many anesthesiologists. The only way would be numerus clausus, which won't happen.

There won't be many independent CRNA groups either. Independent CRNAs will be AMC employees, just like anesthesiologists.

One of the reasons I am going into CCM is that I foresee a time in the near future when anesthesiologists will be happy just to have a job, any job. If I could go back 10 years, I would advise my young self to put even primary care ahead of anesthesia.

I wouldn't even go into medicine nowadays. For the same lack of numerus clausus, leading to constantly decreasing reimbursements and constantly increasing work stress.

The only solution is to boldly go where (almost) no man has gone before. Or not many (doctors), at least. Also known as BFE.

I just can't imagine doing anything else in medicine. I had considered radonc and ENT, but I just like anesthesia more. This is a bummer, but thanks for your insight.
 
I would go back to that thought about ENT. 😉

This is very simple economics: increasing labor supply/demand ratio leads to decreasing salaries. Now put "rapidly" in front of both sides of that implication.

Going into anesthesia now is like planning for a manufacturing job after offshoring began; nowadays, one wouldn't even consider it. Same with anesthesia; it will be the McDonald's of medicine. A decently-paying McD job, like primary care, if you consider that decent; based on stress, responsibility and hourly pay, I don't consider most primary care jobs remotely decent, and I won't consider anesthesia either once it sinks to that level.

Just look what happened to law once law schools became an industry and every ***** could get a law diploma. Now consider the idea that we, as anesthesiologists, are just some highly-educated paralegals, in the eyes of the public and businesspeople. We are not the front of the firm, we are not the ones getting or keeping the clients. We are support people, and we are replaceable.

Welcome to the 21st century medicine! If you want to survive in this McD atmosphere, you need a moat, in the Buffett sense, i.e. a long-term competitive advantage. The right kind of question is not "What do I like doing?", but "What specialty is complicated enough to make it really difficult for midlevels to encroach upon it at the same level they did with primary care? What specialty would people pay even out of pocket for, and could be practiced independently, if the **** hits the reimbursement fan?"
 
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Nothing is preventing them. In 10 years, anesthesiologists will only do crappy cases, 90+% in an ACT model. There is no way around it, because there are/will be way too many anesthesiologists. The only way would be numerus clausus, which won't happen.

There won't be many independent CRNA groups either. Independent CRNAs will be AMC employees, just like anesthesiologists.

One of the reasons I am going into CCM is that I foresee a time in the near future when anesthesiologists will be happy just to have a job, any job. If I could go back 10 years, I would advise my young self to put even primary care ahead of anesthesia.

I wouldn't even go into medicine nowadays. For the same lack of numerus clausus, leading to constantly decreasing reimbursements and constantly increasing work stress.

The only solution is to boldly go where (almost) no man has gone before. Or not many (doctors), at least. Also known as BFE.

To further expand upon this, the "answer" according to many academicians is more education. Guess what; hospital administrators will wipe their &$$ with your diplomas. More education (rightfully) often means more compensatory expectations, and administrators are in a race to the bottom. They care about how cheaply they can get the job done to increase their bonuses. You can jump up and down and scream about how important it is to patient care that a physician is involved and you will be right, but healthcare is about perceptions. The public doesn't appreciate our role and until they do, they will fall victim to slight of hand. They may learn in the holding room that a physician anesthesiologist won't be involved at all as they are taken to the brink of death, and any complications will be ascribed to some nebulous cause that their families will never fully comprehend.
 
To further expand upon this, the "answer" according to many academicians is more education. Guess what; hospital administrators will wipe their &$$ with your diplomas. More education (rightfully) often means more compensatory expectations, and administrators are in a race to the bottom. They care about how cheaply they can get the job done to increase their bonuses. You can jump up and down and scream about how important it is to patient care that a physician is involved and you will be right, but healthcare is about perceptions. The public doesn't appreciate our role and until they do, they will fall victim to slight of hand. They may learn in the holding room that a physician anesthesiologist won't be involved at all as they are taken to the brink of death, and any complications will be ascribed to some nebulous cause that their families will never fully comprehend.
100x Like.

That's exactly how businesspeople think. And guess what, students? They are in charge now.

Everything in life is about perceptions. Smoke and mirrors. And we, as doctors, are slowly losing the PR battle in more and more specialties.
 
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Is there anyway to make yourself irreplaceable with a fellowship? I was always thinking about doing one just to make myself more marketable and to differentiate from midlevel providers, but I'm not sure which fellowships would be a good choice. I'm not really leaning towards critical care or ob/gyn, but what about neuro, cardiac and pain? I heard pain is getting saturated too as well.
 
Is there anyway to make yourself irreplaceable with a fellowship? I was always thinking about doing one just to make myself more marketable and to differentiate from midlevel providers, but I'm not sure which fellowships would be a good choice. I'm not really leaning towards critical care or ob/gyn, but what about neuro, cardiac and pain? I heard pain is getting saturated too as well.
Your answer lies in gasdoc77's post.

50+% of cardiac, 80+% of peds, 90+% of neuro, 90+% of OB, 80+% of regional (even higher if we exclude catheters) can be done by generalist anesthesiologists, and some of them even by CRNAs. (Let's not forget the increasing number of residency programs with exceptional training in regional or TEE.) A big part of non-interventional pain can be done by NPs or other specialties.

In the future, the only thing a fellowship might help you with will be to keep you employed (versus somebody who cannot bring anything special to the table). That's all. Some subspecialties will do better for a while, until their markets saturate, after which they'll do as bad as everybody else. And we will all be at the whim of market forces, just like the American blue-collar worker whose ranks we are joining, as employees.

Now compare this with the professional future of a good surgeon who will have private pre-paying patients even after an apocalypse. Even bad surgeons will do better than most anesthesiologists.

Remember that the number of residency training spots has already increased by 30%, and CRNAs are multiplying like viruses; it's the new hip career for people of average intelligence with similar parents already in healthcare. (I am NOT saying that all/most CRNAs are of average intelligence.) The supply is getting out of proportion with the demand.

We have reached the point where we have unmatched US medical grads. Too much supply. The good years of practicing medicine are slowly over.

The best (sub)specialty is the one that will allow you to stay independent, self-employed, for life. AFAIK, that includes mostly just surgery nowadays.
 
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Then it seems like number-wise, one should specialize in cardiac since those cases would be least taken over by midlevel providers. My goal is to just have some job security after I've invested so many years already, money isn't that big of a deal as long as I can live comfortably but not extremely rich.

I'm going into anesthesia with a very realistic/pessimistic perspective that it's not like what it was before, but for us new grads, this is all we know of, which I'm fine with - I really can't see myself in any other specialty and just enjoy anesthesia.
 
Then it seems like number-wise, one should specialize in cardiac since those cases would be least taken over by midlevel providers.
Except that nowadays everybody and their grandmother tend to go into a cardiac fellowship. Where I trained, there were an increasing number of cardiac-trained attendings who did not get to practice cardiac anesthesia, not even once a year or during call.

The number one problem with anesthesia is the increasing oversupply of anesthesia providers, including fellowship-trained ones. Unless you are an incredibly affable person, there is no fellowship to guarantee you a good future job in this specialty. That's actually the best fellowship: comedy theater plus hospitality plus sales. Where can I find one, beyond CRNA schools?

The anesthesiologists with (the best) jobs in the future will be the ones able to satisfy (in any way) the most (important) surgeons. Your role model will be a mixture of Anthony Hopkins in The Remains Of The Day and Robin Williams. 😛
 
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man im debating between anesthesia and ent and these posts are so demoralizing
i don't know if i can make it to ent but anesthesia sounds so bad as a future career
 
I do want to demoralize you. Going into anesthesia is like volunteering for war: you should do it only if that's what you believe in 1000%, and you could never forgive yourself for not doing it.

Don't do it because it's ROAD, it sounds good, you had a great rotation, you know 5 people who apparently live and work like kings etc. Do it because it's absolutely the best friggin choice for you as an individual, and there is absolutely nothing that would come close to it.

If you are truly hard-working, VERY affable, skilled with your hands, with deep knowledge of physiology and internal medicine, fast on your feet, then this specialty might give you back what you put into it. Still there might be many others with better returns (and I am not talking only about financial rewards).
 
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man im debating between anesthesia and ent and these posts are so demoralizing
i don't know if i can make it to ent but anesthesia sounds so bad as a future career

I talked to a few MDs and they aren't as negative as some people on SDN. Certainly the field is changing, but they are still happy with their jobs.
 
I talked to a few MDs and they aren't as negative as some people on SDN. Certainly the field is changing, but they are still happy with their jobs.
Are those people recent grads, especially ones with non-competitive residencies/fellowships (i.e. the majority)?

I was extremely positive about going into anesthesia. Heck, I even remember being asked about the future of the specialty, CRNAs specifically, during a residency interview about 5-10 years ago. I am really ashamed to quote here my enthusiastic response and my indifference towards them at the time.

Don't misunderstand me: I love my life as an attending, more and more. I am also pretty sure I could have done much better, and I don't mean just financially. Still, when I get the weekly wide-eyed patient who cannot believe she had surgery, not even when shown the dressings, I forget everything and melt inside. (If I could figure out how to make all of them feel like that, I would probably work even for free.)

But I can see the present and future trend, and it's not rosy at all. And I do have tremendous respect for AMGs, most of which are still among the best and brightest of this country.
 
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As a PCCM fellow, I highly respect my anesthesia colleagues. Their airway skills are wicked, and so is anesthesia pathphys. I was horrified one night call, when I asked for help on a difficult airway, and a CRNA walked in. I didn't know she was a CRNA till she said, the patient is pretty yellow, does he have like a liver problem ? (This after I already updated her that the patient was Child's C MELD 29 awaiting transplant). Then I asked her if she was the anesthesiologist...and she said she was anesthesia provider...needless to say, I waited for the real anesthesia team to come, (this was a semi elective intubation prior to EGD)

After a few enquiries with the anesthesia residents, apparently some of the attendings left the practice and are replaced now with CRNAs who are paid a buck load of money for night calls, for sitting in the OR while the anesthesia residents carry the airway/code pager.

CRNAs are killing this once awesome field. I am glad I went through medicine and then critical
care / pulm


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Are those people recent grads, especially ones with non-competitive residencies/fellowships (i.e. the majority)?

I was extremely positive about going into anesthesia. Heck, I even remember being asked about the future of the specialty, CRNAs specifically, during a residency interview about 5-10 years ago. I am really ashamed to quote here my enthusiastic response and my indifference towards them at the time.

Don't misunderstand me: I love my life as an attending, more and more. I am also pretty sure I could have done much better, and I don't mean just financially. Still, when I get the weekly wide-eyed patient who cannot believe she had surgery, not even when shown the dressings, I forget everything and melt inside.

They were attendings from an all MD practice and another group that does like 80% own cases. Most of the ones I talked to finished residency within the last 10 years.

I guess recent grads are already aware of the issues and just accept reality. Compare this to more experienced attendings who practiced without major CRNA issues in the 80's and 90's.
 
If not recent grads, they were also probably partners, not employees. Big difference.
 
I do want to demoralize you. Going into anesthesia is like volunteering for war: you should do it only if that's what you believe in 1000%, and you could never forgive yourself for not doing it.

Don't do it because it's ROAD, it sounds good, you had a great rotation, you know 5 people who apparently live and work like kings etc. Do it because it's absolutely the best friggin choice for you as an individual, and there is absolutely nothing that would come close to it.

If you are truly hard-working, VERY affable, skilled with your hands, with deep knowledge of physiology and internal medicine, fast on your feet, then this specialty might give you back what you put into it. Still there might be many others with better returns (and I am not talking only about financial rewards).

anesthesia sounds awful from what i've heard over the past few years and i had a horrible rotation. i saw a sign in an or that talked about the responsibilities of the various people in the or for time out and it said what the surgeon should do, what the or nurse should do and what the "anesthesia provider" should do and i knew that something was wrong. i haven't had my general surgery rotation yet and i enjoy clinic but i still can't picture myself as not an anesthesiologist. i'm just worried that in 5 years i'll be looking for a job, there will be none and i will be kicking myself for wasting all that hard work and effort for nothing, just to have some wannabe doctor say that they're better than me
 
Lots of great posts in here. If you can get a surgical subspecialty and have the balls to handle the residency you should do it. I see the writing on the wall with anesthesia and have fully hitched my wagon to pain. Not like there are that many options at this point for me.
 
Well, I'll certainly consider these things; thanks for the contributions.

IDK if my heart is in a surgical subspecialty.
 
Well, I'll certainly consider these things; thanks for the contributions.

IDK if my heart is in a surgical subspecialty.

That's my problem, too. I don't really enjoy doing surgery. I love anesthesia, however.

I guess I'm just hoping I can do a CCM fellowship. Hopefully that will keep me afloat if things keep going as badly as everyone says they are.

I just really can't see myself being as happy in another field. This sucks...
 
Nothing is preventing them. In 10 years, anesthesiologists will only do crappy cases, 90+% in an ACT model. There is no way around it, because there are/will be way too many anesthesiologists. The only way would be numerus clausus, which won't happen.

There won't be many independent CRNA groups either. Independent CRNAs will be AMC employees, just like anesthesiologists.

One of the reasons I am going into CCM is that I foresee a time in the near future when anesthesiologists will be happy just to have a job, any job. If I could go back 10 years, I would advise my young self to put even primary care ahead of anesthesia.

I wouldn't even go into medicine nowadays. For the same lack of numerus clausus, leading to constantly decreasing reimbursements and constantly increasing work stress.

The only solution is to boldly go where (almost) no man has gone before. Or not many (doctors), at least. Also known as BFE.

FFP, I really appreciate your posts. You say things how they are and you don't sugar coat anything. Thank you for giving me and all the other medical students a realistic view of anesthesiology and it's future. If you were a medical student today, would you choose general surgery over anesthesiology? Why or why not?

For most of us looking into gas, even if we are above average applicants, ENT, Uro, and PRS are a long shot. General surgery is very close to anesthesia in competitiveness and I feel that if I picked surgery over gas, GS is where I would likely end up. No matter how bad gas gets in the future, it's hard to imagine it getting any worse than GS from my perspective. What's your take? Also, would you really choose FM today over gas? All the FM physicians I know are miserable while all the gas docs I know love what they do.

I would be very interested to get yours and the other posters perspectives on what are better alternatives for med students with average to above average applications for gas (step 1 in the 230s). I honestly feel like I would be happier doing anesthesia for 100K per year than pretty much anything else regardless of the money. I've tried very hard to talk myself out of gas but have not been able to (trust me, I'm still trying). I will graduate with 110k in student loans and I'm single so maybe that's the reason making 100k doesn't scare me much. Anyway, what is your take on the above questions and advice for other med students in the same boat as I? Anyone else's advice is also greatly appreciated.
 
I honestly feel like I would be happier doing anesthesia for 100K per year than pretty much anything else regardless of the money.

On the one hand, if this is the case, then I'd imagine anesthesiology shouldn't be a problem for you.

On the other hand, don't sell yourself too short! If we're too eager to accept such excessively low salaries rather than letting "market forces" decide for us, then we're also shooting ourselves in the foot.

Check out Dr. Richard Novak's "Why Does Anyone Decide They Want to Become an Anesthesiologist?" I think it's a fairly objective overview of the pros and cons.
 
On the one hand, if this is the case, then I'd imagine anesthesiology shouldn't be a problem for you.

On the other hand, don't sell yourself too short! If we're too eager to accept such excessively low salaries rather than letting "market forces" decide for us, then we're also shooting ourselves in the foot.

Check out Dr. Richard Novak's "Why Does Anyone Decide They Want to Become an Anesthesiologist?" I think it's a fairly objective overview of the pros and cons.

Thank you I'll take a look at that! Don't get me wrong, by no means do I want to sell myself short. I'm willing to fight for the best compensation possible for my colleagues and I and I plan to advocate for the profession. I don't want to settle for a low salary. However, if in the end after all the fighting and advocating, I end up with a 100k salary doing gas, I feel like I'll still be happier because I'll be doing what I love and what I'm passionate about.
 
FFP, I really appreciate your posts. You say things how they are and you don't sugar coat anything. Thank you for giving me and all the other medical students a realistic view of anesthesiology and it's future. If you were a medical student today, would you choose general surgery over anesthesiology? Why or why not?

For most of us looking into gas, even if we are above average applicants, ENT, Uro, and PRS are a long shot. General surgery is very close to anesthesia in competitiveness and I feel that if I picked surgery over gas, GS is where I would likely end up. No matter how bad gas gets in the future, it's hard to imagine it getting any worse than GS from my perspective. What's your take? Also, would you really choose FM today over gas? All the FM physicians I know are miserable while all the gas docs I know love what they do.

I would be very interested to get yours and the other posters perspectives on what are better alternatives for med students with average to above average applications for gas (step 1 in the 230s). I honestly feel like I would be happier doing anesthesia for 100K per year than pretty much anything else regardless of the money. I've tried very hard to talk myself out of gas but have not been able to (trust me, I'm still trying). I will graduate with 110k in student loans and I'm single so maybe that's the reason making 100k doesn't scare me much. Anyway, what is your take on the above questions and advice for other med students in the same boat as I? Anyone else's advice is also greatly appreciated.
I am the first to admit that my perspective may be skewed by my limited personal experience. So take everything I (and everybody else you don't know) say with a grain of salt. I am just trying to think out loud when posting here. (And we all know I am not Nobel material.)

To be honest, I can only imagine a surgeon's lifestyle. But I don't think anesthesia is far behind, and it's rapidly catching up nowadays, especially with the periop physician/PSH delirium. The difference is how they are treated and, in the future, the money they'll make (or the money we won't). I see everyday private surgeons surviving without being swallowed by the big hospitals they have privileges in. Even general surgeons. One doesn't have to be expert in a lot of things, like in anesthesia. You can be the hernia expert, or the breast expert, or the lap chole expert. If really good at it, that's 75% of what you do, and former patients will refer the future ones, no sweat. Some will even pay out of pocket for the privilege. Imagine the same in anesthesia; even when you get requests from patients, nobody who matters really gives a damn. The only thing that matters is if one of the surgical overlords decides that s/he wants you and only you in his/her room. Like that happens a lot anyway. And it will increase your employee salary sooooo much.

You are a valet. You might think you are a physician, one of the two captains of the OR ship, but that's only in court. In real life, keeping surgeons happy matters way more than keeping anesthesia "providers" happy. Actually the former is YOUR job.

On topic:
If you know you love Lady Anesthesia so much, go for it. My negative advice is for the doubters, for people deciding which residency to go into, which courtesan to climb in bed with. But if you're in love, you're in love, and who am I to say that she is old, ugly and missing all her teeth?

I don't know how miserable FM docs who can run their own cash-based private practice in small communities are. We only know the big city/metropolitan area ones. I look at Pamela Wible and I wonder.
 
That was a very interesting read scutdoc, and highlighted my attraction to anesthesiology as a possible career choice. For me, I know I enjoy managing airways and want to be very good at that. I want it to be an integral part of my practice, and don't think I could very long without managing an airway. That ties me into a narrow few specialties, and of those, I've enjoyed my 60+ shadowing hours in anesthesiology far more than anything else. I am also trying to keep my options as open as possible, but I do not enjoy the clinic setting and find it much easier to imagine myself as an anesthesiologist than as anything else. I very much appreciate the opposing viewpoints though, as it has made me much more critical of why I want to do anesthesiology and think very hard about all of the specialties.
 
That was a very interesting read scutdoc, and highlighted my attraction to anesthesiology as a possible career choice. For me, I know I enjoy managing airways and want to be very good at that. I want it to be an integral part of my practice, and don't think I could very long without managing an airway.
Repeat after me: E-N-T, E-N-T, E-N-T!

No, not the Ents from Lord Of The Rings!
 
I had two different ENTs try to talk me into that specialty during my anesthesiology shadowing actually. I will definitely be looking into it as well. I believe that it is fairly competitive to get into though, correct? I'm at a DO school, and going to be hitting my boards studying hard this summer and all next year to do as well as possible on Step 1, but I also don't have much research experience. Going to try to do a project this summer, but not a lot of opportunities at my school. I'll have to see what I'm able to get into realistically when the time comes.
 
See? You guys know more than I do.

Or maybe, the fault is in your stars for not be(com)ing competitive enough for ENT. 😛

Baller MD, I hope you are not trying to say that the average ENT candidate is a better student than the Anesthesia candidate? Because somehow I don't imagine the former being more intelligent than the latter. But then I remember Derm... and I shut up.
 
See? You guys know more than I do.

Or maybe, the fault is in your stars for not be(com)ing competitive enough for ENT. 😛

Baller MD, I hope you are not trying to say that the average ENT candidate is a better student than the Anesthesia candidate? Because somehow I don't imagine the former being more intelligent than the latter. But then I remember Derm... and I shut up.

I must say that FFP, you probably haven't seen the most recent charting outcomes of the match...the avg Step 1 for ENT is the highest of ANY specialty now (higher than derm, plastics, ortho, etc). The step 1 average is currently 248 for the last cycle. That means even a 240 would prob get you into a below avg ENT program in the middle of nowhere.
 
I had two different ENTs try to talk me into that specialty during my anesthesiology shadowing actually. I will definitely be looking into it as well. I believe that it is fairly competitive to get into though, correct? I'm at a DO school, and going to be hitting my boards studying hard this summer and all next year to do as well as possible on Step 1, but I also don't have much research experience. Going to try to do a project this summer, but not a lot of opportunities at my school. I'll have to see what I'm able to get into realistically when the time comes.

Forget ENT then. Come join us slobs in the anesthesia world!
 
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