MS in Data Science Right after Graduation

[DIPEA]

I have been quietly reading the good and probably mostly bad comments on this forum about the future of this profession for at least several years. Now I am literally just 2 weeks away from appe rotations, and the negativities surrounding future job prospects absolutely worry me, to the point of often waking up midnight trying to figure out a feasible way of better preparing myself.

I was a stellar student in my 1st year, then I was fully convinced by many of you guys that this profession is probably not going anywhere or sustainable in the long term. So starting 2nd year, I made a drastic decision: to spend as little time on the curriculum as possible to just pass all courses to graduate & get licensed, and refocus vast majority of my time to learning programming and data science, mostly from online resources like cousera, datacamp and udemy. Now I think I am at least somewhat competent in Python, Java, C++, R, SAS and SQL.

Recently I started to take notice of several online masters in cs/data science programs offered by schools like UPenn, Georgia Tech, and UMich in partnership with coursera/edx to train non-cs majors. And it seems like other schoos like UCSD and CU Boulder will also launch their programs soon.

I am planning to get myself enrolled in the Georgia Tech micromaster starting next month and do super well to boost my chances of getting into its OMS in Analytics program next year, which will cost less than 10k. I am just wondering if someone here has done similar transitions and would like to share their experiences, like their programs of choice, curriculum, tuition, job prospects etc.

I went to a quite cheap pharmacy school, and I will likely graduate with minimal debt in low-mid five digits. My current goal is to work after graduation & licensure, pay off debt ASAP, and finish the online degree in 1-2 years so that I can switch to a SDE or data scientist role in either pharma or tech sectors if necessary.

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[Argentium]

I'll comment on the pharma data scientist role since I have more experience there. In my opinion, you should consider some of these alternative routes, which I think would produce better outcomes:

1. Commercial: go into management consulting at an analytics-focused company
2. Commercial: go into a commercial insights or business analytics fellowship (Celgene, BMS, J&J all offer, in addition to other companies)
3. R&D: health economics fellowship

At the end of the day, as a hiring manager or interviewer for these functions, work experience trumps degrees every single time. In my pharma experience, the execution of data analytics is actually pretty simplistic and often contracted out since that's the easier part - the more important/interesting aspect is probably the design of the analysis, etc. The most advanced software I've seen used is basically SAS in R&D and Excel (w/ some simple VBA).

If you do any of the above, they'll pay for your classes if you REALLY want the degree

 

[DIPEA]

I'll comment on the pharma data scientist role since I have more experience there. In my opinion, you should consider some of these alternative routes, which I think would produce better outcomes:

1. Commercial: go into management consulting at an analytics-focused company
2. Commercial: go into a commercial insights or business analytics fellowship (Celgene, BMS, J&J all offer, in addition to other companies)
3. R&D: health economics fellowship

At the end of the day, as a hiring manager or interviewer for these functions, work experience trumps degrees every single time. In my pharma experience, the execution of data analytics is actually pretty simplistic and often contracted out since that's the easier part - the more important/interesting aspect is probably the design of the analysis, etc. The most advanced software I've seen used is basically SAS in R&D and Excel (w/ some simple VBA).

If you do any of the above, they'll pay for your classes if you REALLY want the degree

Thanks for the reply!

The reason that I wanted to pursue a degree out of it is that I believe a more in-depth training in operational research, stats and machine learning could lead to an opportunity to transition into traditional tech sectors if I really do want to make that move. I understand that pharma sector currently still heavily relies on legacy software packages like SAS, and I am definitely paying attention to that regarding skill sets I needed to acquire.

Regarding fellowships, I was really targeting them initially. But starting 2nd year I realized that those opportunities actually quite few and far in between, and the competition is way fierce. I was very concerned that the opportunity cost of pursuing fellowships might end up too high in case I eventually never get one, considering the requirements for a ton of extracurricular activities, research, publications etc.

 

[Argentium]

Its a fair point - I was focusing more on if you wanted to go down the pharma route/path. I would say that you're probably over-estimating the competition for fellowships. There's a high quantity of applicants, but its not always high quality, particularly in fields that are kind of niche (such as business analytics). Even though I don't work in the sector, probably you're underestimating the competition for a good data scientist role as well esp. considering pharma pays better in my experience (compared to my peers that went the data scientist route in northeast metro-area established tech and startups)

 

[DIPEA]

Its a fair point - I was focusing more on if you wanted to go down the pharma route/path. I would say that you're probably over-estimating the competition for fellowships. There's a high quantity of applicants, but its not always high quality, particularly in fields that are kind of niche (such as business analytics). Even though I don't work in the sector, probably you're underestimating the competition for a good data scientist role as well esp. considering pharma pays better in my experience (compared to my peers that went the data scientist route in northeast metro-area established tech and startups)

Thanks for your input.

I am thinking of moving to the west coast post-grad, likely the seattle area for a few years with the possibilities of going south to ca later. A quick search on indeed and linkedin revealed a ton of openings for DS jobs in tech than in pharma, and that kinda shaped my perception. I guess maybe seattle is not a biotech hub? Somehow tech on the west coast seems to pay better than pharma in general, just based on my own observation and rumors and i could be totally wrong here. Like you said, maybe the demand for more hardcore DS positions in pharma isn't catching up yet? I am just guessing.

 

[Argentium]

Seattle is not really a Pharma/Biotech hub, so not a good comparison - SF is probably the better one, in which case, yes your blue chip tech companies will pay better than pharma/biotech (though you won't be poor in either industry ...).

Also: for the most part, pharma/biotech pay relatively similarly as long as you are at the same level (e.g. manager, associate director, etc.). Tech is definitely not created equal and there is a lot more variability since LTI makes up such a significant part of your comp and is pretty variable between the blue chip companies (FANG, etc.) and some of the less prestigious options out there

 

[Jbrl]

Thanks for your input.

I am thinking of moving to the west coast post-grad, likely the seattle area for a few years with the possibilities of going south to ca later. A quick search on indeed and linkedin revealed a ton of openings for DS jobs in tech than in pharma, and that kinda shaped my perception. I guess maybe seattle is not a biotech hub? Somehow tech on the west coast seems to pay better than pharma in general, just based on my own observation and rumors and i could be totally wrong here. Like you said, maybe the demand for more hardcore DS positions in pharma isn't catching up yet? I am just guessing.

You don't need to limit your options at this point in time because the timelines for all of the paths you're considering and the paths that have been suggested differ significantly. In addition, they all complement one another, so application and interview preparation isn't wasted, e.g., crafting your story, behavioral prep, case interviewing.

Consulting: July-October and March-April
Fellowship: November-February
Data science MS: January-February

In short, keep an open mind and explore. Additional education should be your last priority and should be pursued if other options fail. Luckily it's last on the list. You can always get an online masters later or a FT one if you deem it necessary.

 

[DIPEA]

You don't need to limit your options at this point in time because the timelines for all of the paths you're considering and the paths that have been suggested differ significantly. In addition, they all complement one another, so application and interview preparation isn't wasted, e.g., crafting your story, behavioral prep, case interviewing.

Consulting: July-October and March-April
Fellowship: November-February
Data science MS: January-February

In short, keep an open mind and explore. Additional education should be your last priority and should be pursued if other options fail. Luckily it's last on the list. You can always get an online masters later or a FT one if you deem it necessary.

You are completely right! I agree.
I actually thought about all options. But at this stage in time, I think going for an online degree might be the only option left for me.
I don't know much about mgmt consulting, but aren't they require case study interviews, and preferably prior mgmt consulting internship?
For fellowships, when I was in 1st year, I managed to talk to several 4th year fellowship hopefuls. They spent a tremendous amount of time doing all sorts of extracurricular stuff, various organizations, clubs, research with faculty etc, just to have a shot for only a handful of such competitive programs. If they fell short, I felt their time and effort is basically wasted since their "soft" experience won't translate into any measurable skills that can help them stand out in today's tough job market. And that impression really stuck with me since then, and I always thought my time investment can be a lot more meaningful and less risky if I can learn some substantial skills, and I chose data science/programming.

Since I only have less than one year left and I am heading into APPE rotations, so time is a limiting factor for me. Trying all three is undoubtedly too hard. As I mentioned before, I am starting the micromaster in just a few weeks to boost my chances for the GaTech program. Despite online, it is still highly selective and shares the identical curriculum and degree as the on-campus version, but significantly cheaper. I understand your point, and I really should not put all eggs in one basket, but time is indeed very tight, so I may have to make a pick.

 

[Jbrl]

You are completely right! I agree.
I actually thought about all options. But at this stage in time, I think going for an online degree might be the only option left for me.
I don't know much about mgmt consulting, but aren't they require case study interviews, and preferably prior mgmt consulting internship?
For fellowships, when I was in 1st year, I managed to talk to several 4th year fellowship hopefuls. They spent a tremendous amount of time doing all sorts of extracurricular stuff, various organizations, clubs, research with faculty etc, just to have a shot for only a handful of such competitive programs. If they fell short, I felt their time and effort is basically wasted since their "soft" experience won't translate into any measurable skills that can help them stand out in today's tough job market. And that impression really stuck with me since then, and I always thought my time investment can be a lot more meaningful and less risky if I can learn some substantial skills, and I chose data science/programming.

Since I only have less than one year left and I am heading into APPE rotations, so time is a limiting factor for me. Trying all three is undoubtedly too hard. As I mentioned before, I am starting the micromaster in just a few weeks to boost my chances for the GaTech program. Despite online, it is still highly selective and shares the identical curriculum and degree as the on-campus version, but significantly cheaper. I understand your point, and I really should not put all eggs in one basket, but time is indeed very tight, so I may have to make a pick.

I think you're selling yourself short. A few points:

1. You don't need to have a 6 page CV like some students do. In fact, some fellows barely had any of the experiences you've listed. To your point about "fellowship hopefuls" - I would assert that 80% of the activities students involve themselves in add little value, acting as resume fillers. I was perfectly guilty of this. All you actually need is a 1 page resume. ~2 work experiences (preferably internships and at least tangentially relevant), ~1-2 extracurricular activities (preferably with some impactful leadership). You don't need a consulting internship for consulting - they hire all kinds. The only places who require a CV from you are academia, residencies and perhaps certain government jobs.

2. Don't overestimate the time investment of all 3 paths and underestimate the overlap between each. There is a great deal of overlap especially as it relates to behavioral questions (almost completely, actually). The only difference is case interviewing, which has a particular method that can be studied, just like any test, and can be studied in ~25-50hr. Case interviewing lessons carry over to fellowships and grad school, too - e.g., structured communication, Pareto principle. On behaviorals - for all 3 they can be cracked in ~10-20hr, tops. Fellowships are 95% behavioral interviews. Grad school apps are the same, just written instead of verbal.

3. In addition, preparing for one will actually make you more prepared for the others. While your friends prep for fellowships, you're already prepped from consulting season. Just prepare optimally and with proper guidance from people who've walked the paths you're mulling over.

If you decide the degree is the path forward for you, then I would go through a proper 1 or 2 years Masters that has student recruitment pathways into data science positions. Otherwise you will have to do some networking on your own. If you haven't asked for advice from comp sci /analytics forums, I would do that as well. I think they'd be in a better position to provide you feedback on schools and prospects.

Either way - be confident in your background. You will be surprised and amazed at how much you know and can offer health tech companies with your skillset. Little snippets of knowledge you and the pharmacists around you take for granted.

 

[GrandTheftAutumn]

I started looking into data science too.
I've been working as a pharmacist for < 1 year but already worried about my long term perspective... sad!

Anyways, what do y'all think of Learn Python - Free Interactive Python Tutorial and other free coding language tutorials from this website?
How far will this get me?

 

[DIPEA]

I think you're selling yourself short. A few points:

1. You don't need to have a 6 page CV like some students do. In fact, some fellows barely had any of the experiences you've listed. To your point about "fellowship hopefuls" - I would assert that 80% of the activities students involve themselves in add little value, acting as resume fillers. I was perfectly guilty of this. All you actually need is a 1 page resume. ~2 work experiences (preferably internships and at least tangentially relevant), ~1-2 extracurricular activities (preferably with some impactful leadership). You don't need a consulting internship for consulting - they hire all kinds. The only places who require a CV from you are academia, residencies and perhaps certain government jobs.

2. Don't overestimate the time investment of all 3 paths and underestimate the overlap between each. There is a great deal of overlap especially as it relates to behavioral questions (almost completely, actually). The only difference is case interviewing, which has a particular method that can be studied, just like any test, and can be studied in ~25-50hr. Case interviewing lessons carry over to fellowships and grad school, too - e.g., structured communication, Pareto principle. On behaviorals - for all 3 they can be cracked in ~10-20hr, tops. Fellowships are 95% behavioral interviews. Grad school apps are the same, just written instead of verbal.

3. In addition, preparing for one will actually make you more prepared for the others. While your friends prep for fellowships, you're already prepped from consulting season. Just prepare optimally and with proper guidance from people who've walked the paths you're mulling over.

If you decide the degree is the path forward for you, then I would go through a proper 1 or 2 years Masters that has student recruitment pathways into data science positions. Otherwise you will have to do some networking on your own. If you haven't asked for advice from comp sci /analytics forums, I would do that as well. I think they'd be in a better position to provide you feedback on schools and prospects.

Either way - be confident in your background. You will be surprised and amazed at how much you know and can offer health tech companies with your skillset. Little snippets of knowledge you and the pharmacists around you take for granted.

Thank you so much for the thoughtful input! I really appreciate that.

 

[DIPEA]

I started looking into data science too.
I've been working as a pharmacist for < 1 year but already worried about my long term perspective... sad!

Anyways, what do y'all think of Learn Python - Free Interactive Python Tutorial and other free coding language tutorials from this website?
How far will this get me?

Not too far I think. DS actually requires A LOT from you. Specialized data scientists are like software engineers + statisticians on top of whatever prior background you have (including pharmacy). I honest feel there is just sooooo much to learn in DS compared to pharmacy. In pharmacy, everything is pretty much handed over to you, and you can just cram and regurgitate. Nothing challenging about that really. DS requires you to 1. know computational techniques and software packages for data cleaning & analysis, programming, accessing databases and visualization 2. understand the math (up to multivariate calculus, linear algebra, and maybe some differential equations, and a bunch of topics in statistics, bayesian, nonparametric etc) and algorithms behind models so that you can implement the right one to solve the question 3. data mining and statistical learning with topics like neural networks

There is just A LOT to learn in DS.

 

[TheBlaah]

Not too far I think. DS actually requires A LOT from you. Specialized data scientists are like software engineers + statisticians on top of whatever prior background you have (including pharmacy). I honest feel there is just sooooo much to learn in DS compared to pharmacy. In pharmacy, everything is pretty much handed over to you, and you can just cram and regurgitate. Nothing challenging about that really. DS requires you to 1. know computational techniques and software packages for data cleaning & analysis, programming, accessing databases and visualization 2. understand the math (up to multivariate calculus, linear algebra, and maybe some differential equations, and a bunch of topics in statistics, bayesian, nonparametric etc) and algorithms behind models so that you can implement the right one to solve the question 3. data mining and statistical learning with topics like neural networks

There is just A LOT to learn in DS.

I knew a guy who had a similar sort of skillset as you. Came from an investing background, graduated pharmacy and worked in pharmacy IT, knew SQL, java, html, and python (and likely other stuff I wasn't aware of). He was by far the most competent among his team.

He eventually left the hospital for a position in an industry pharmaceutical company. Quite frankly, his skills were underutilized.

Anyway, Georgia Tech's got the reputation as a tough school. If/when you graduate, I think you'll be in a good spot.

 

[DIPEA]

I knew a guy who had a similar sort of skillset as you. Came from an investing background, graduated pharmacy and worked in pharmacy IT, knew SQL, java, html, and python (and likely other stuff I wasn't aware of). He was by far the most competent among his team.

He eventually left the hospital for a position in an industry pharmaceutical company. Quite frankly, his skills were underutilized.

Anyway, Georgia Tech's got the reputation as a tough school. If/when you graduate, I think you'll be in a good spot.

I agree. Georgia Tech is known for its engineering. The curriculum is heavy on stats, programming, modelling & simulation and machine learning. It is never supposed to be easy. If it was easy, everybody would do it, and what's really the worth to go after it then, right?

As a side note, I recently came across a job posting by Cedars-Sinai hospital looking to hire a "pharmacist-data analyst"Pharmacist - Data Analyst at CEDARS-SINAI It was quite surprising for me to see they are looking to hire a licensed pharmacist to do mostly data analytics work, with minimal clinical involvement and no residency required. I don't know if this is the new trend, but it was certainly eye-opening for me to see.

 

[Lubeckd]

I have been quietly reading the good and probably mostly bad comments on this forum about the future of this profession for at least several years. Now I am literally just 2 weeks away from appe rotations, and the negativities surrounding future job prospects absolutely worry me, to the point of often waking up midnight trying to figure out a feasible way of better preparing myself.

I was a stellar student in my 1st year, then I was fully convinced by many of you guys that this profession is probably not going anywhere or sustainable in the long term. So starting 2nd year, I made a drastic decision: to spend as little time on the curriculum as possible to just pass all courses to graduate & get licensed, and refocus vast majority of my time to learning programming and data science, mostly from online resources like cousera, datacamp and udemy. Now I think I am at least somewhat competent in Python, Java, C++, R, SAS and SQL.

Recently I started to take notice of several online masters in cs/data science programs offered by schools like UPenn, Georgia Tech, and UMich in partnership with coursera/edx to train non-cs majors. And it seems like other schoos like UCSD and CU Boulder will also launch their programs soon.

I am planning to get myself enrolled in the Georgia Tech micromaster starting next month and do super well to boost my chances of getting into its OMS in Analytics program next year, which will cost less than 10k. I am just wondering if someone here has done similar transitions and would like to share their experiences, like their programs of choice, curriculum, tuition, job prospects etc.

I went to a quite cheap pharmacy school, and I will likely graduate with minimal debt in low-mid five digits. My current goal is to work after graduation & licensure, pay off debt ASAP, and finish the online degree in 1-2 years so that I can switch to a SDE or data scientist role in either pharma or tech sectors if necessary.

I read this and I know you are the real deal.

 

[DIPEA]

I read this and I know you are the real deal.

I am now 2 blocks into my APPEs, absolutely hating retail to my guts. My annoying preceptor also adds more salt to the injury, but whatever, as long as she passes me, I don't really give a damn~ Pharmacy is dying profession anyway. Why would I spend more energy on a field going straight down the sink? I just wish Amazon can officially invade and take over pharmacy in next 5 years or so, and I would be more than happy to see my annoying preceptor losing her job.

2 more weeks away from finishing the the 1st course in the micromaster series. Did well on both midterms and weekly programming assignments. From reading past reddit posts, I know I would have very high probability of getting into the master of analytics program if I keep doing well for the next two courses. If I apply by early decision deadline next year around March 1st, I may officially get out of the pharmacy ****hole before graduation.

 

[Lubeckd]

I am now 2 blocks into my APPEs, absolutely hating retail to my guts. My annoying preceptor also adds more salt to the injury, but whatever, as long as she passes me, I don't really give a damn~ Pharmacy is dying profession anyway. Why would I spend more energy on a field going straight down the sink? I just wish Amazon can officially invade and take over pharmacy in next 5 years or so, and I would be more than happy to see my annoying preceptor losing her job.

2 more weeks away from finishing the the 1st course in the micromaster series. Did well on both midterms and weekly programming assignments. From reading past reddit posts, I know I would have very high probability of getting into the master of analytics program if I keep doing well for the next two courses. If I apply by early decision deadline next year around March 1st, I may officially get out of the pharmacy ****hole before graduation.

i wish you luck! Network with the people from tre industry and find a mentor!!!

 

[Lubeckd]

I also would recommend not sharing this plan of yours to anyone. When I was doing this for fun my former classmates are not happy for me at all

 

[DIPEA]

I also would recommend not sharing this plan of yours to anyone. When I was doing this for fun my former classmates are not happy for me at all

Haha, I am actually hiding what I am doing from everyone. I think more than three quarters of my classmates won't recognize me either by face or name, cuz I literally skipped almost all non-mandatory attendances. Some even thought I dropped out at a point, then they found out I didn't when I finally showed up to the exams LOL

 

[Lubeckd]

Haha, I am actually hiding what I am doing from everyone. I think more than three quarters of my classmates won't recognize me either by face or name, cuz I literally skipped almost all non-mandatory attendances. Some even thought I dropped out at a point, then they found out I didn't when I finally showed up to the exams LOL

Yeah a lot of people are jealous and scared. Miserable and can't get out. I would suggest you float or prn time to time so you don't lose relevancy in he industry of pharmacy. Work in data. Industry changes all the time.

 

[DIPEA]

Yeah a lot of people are jealous and scared. Miserable and can't get out. I would suggest you float or prn time to time so you don't lose relevancy in he industry of pharmacy. Work in data. Industry changes all the time.

That's exactly what I thought!
PRN or relief is my plan, but probably only on weekends though. I will probably take a data analyst or a clinical research associate type of job during weekdays and study at night. Pharma or tech I don't really mind. The line between the two will be blurred in near future as amazon, apple, alphabet and microsoft are all eager to take a piece of pie in healthcare.

 

[Lubeckd]

That's exactly what I thought!
PRN or relief is my plan, but probably only on weekends though. I will probably take a data analyst or a clinical research associate type of job during weekdays and study at night. Pharma or tech I don't really mind. The line between the two will be blurred in near future as amazon, apple, alphabet and microsoft are all eager to take a piece of pie in healthcare.

Or look into it pharmacy.

That's exactly what I thought!
PRN or relief is my plan, but probably only on weekends though. I will probably take a data analyst or a clinical research associate type of job during weekdays and study at night. Pharma or tech I don't really mind. The line between the two will be blurred in near future as amazon, apple, alphabet and microsoft are all eager to take a piece of pie in healthcare.

I feel bad for my classmates... I'm coding right now as we speak but haven't done ml yet. I feel bad for my classmate. A lot did pharmacy for the wrong reasons. And some married and had kids, they will never get the time to study something else. Pbm paying less and less. I'm just here doing coding for fun because my friend said do it if you say you will do it lol...

 

[Lubeckd]

I think data science pays more no? Research scitentist is even better than phd in terms of finding jobs

 

[Lubeckd]

One classmate became a professor. And even our professors know the field isn't going well... when enrollment drops they will be in trouble. What a sad profession. We had some really good times.

 

[DIPEA]

I think data science pays more no? Research scitentist is even better than phd in terms of finding jobs

I am from SF bay area, so I may be biased.
Entry level data scientists definitely get paid at least on par with SDEs if not more, and the openings are popping up all the time. I don't regret doing pharmd a bit tho, cuz I knew in next a few years, when amazon or other big tech companies finally decide to take a bite at (maybe even pull the plug out) pharmacy, we will be in demand, and hopefully lead a team of SDEs and other data scientists to make our colleagues jobless. LOOOL

If you can't fight them, join them. That's my logic.

 

[Lubeckd]

I am from SF bay area, so I may be biased.
Entry level data scientists definitely get paid at least on par with SDEs if not more, and the openings are popping up all the time. I don't regret doing pharmd a bit tho, cuz I knew in next a few years, when amazon or other big tech companies finally decide to take a bite at (maybe even pull the plug out) pharmacy, we will be in demand, and hopefully lead a team of SDEs and other data scientists to make our colleagues jobless. LOOOL

If you can't fight them, join them. That's my logic.

Lmao. They will want you to head the data science pharmacy residency department

 

[DIPEA]

One classmate became a professor. And even our professors know the field isn't going well... when enrollment drops they will be in trouble. What a sad profession. We had some really good times.

That's why I didn't go to classes. Those professors are living in ivory tower all the time, and what they teach is completely irrelevant to today's job market. I rather sleep at home than listening to their useless lectures on "pharmacotherapies".

 

[Lubeckd]

Jack Ma: This is what to study if you want a high-paying job in the future

The Alibaba founder says people with this skill will thrive in the new economy.

www.cnbc.com

 

[Lubeckd]

That's why I didn't go to classes. Those professors are living in ivory tower all the time, and what they teach is completely irrelevant to today's job market. I rather sleep at home than listening to their useless lectures on "pharmacotherapies".

College should teach you for job. Pharmacy was a waste of time

 

[DIPEA]

Jack Ma: This is what to study if you want a high-paying job in the future

The Alibaba founder says people with this skill will thrive in the new economy.

www.cnbc.com

Agree with him 100%
When I was working at the R&D department at the drug maker, we relied heavily on high-throughput screening. My department (DMPK) hired more system biologists and programmers in one year than all existing pharmaceutical science/analytical chem positions combined.
Pharmacy is doomed for sure though. Almost all of my classmates either just can't code or absolutely suck at math.

 

[Lubeckd]

Agree with him 100%
When I was working at the R&D department at the drug maker, we relied heavily on high-throughput screening. My department (DMPK) hired more system biologists and programmers in one year than all existing pharmaceutical science/analytical chem positions combined.
Pharmacy is doomed for sure though. Almost all of my classmates either just can't code or absolutely suck at math.

I find it funny one pharmd had a MBA and was teaching investing lol... MBA isn't for that. A lot of people think MBA is like the life saver of this profession

 

[DIPEA]

I find it funny one pharmd had a MBA and was teaching investing lol... MBA isn't for that. A lot of people think MBA is like the life saver of this profession

Unless the MBA is from Harvard, MIT, Northwestern or UPenn, it's useless. Some maybe even argue MBA from those schools have poor ROIs. MBA has more to do with networking than actually learning anything. It's a party house within an academic environment.

 

[Lubeckd]

There Are Many Pharmacy Informatics Jobs

Learn why pharmacists are in a great position to join the fastest-growing area in health care: technology

www.pharmacytimes.com

 

[Lubeckd]

You can join hospital and keep your skills or you can do residency 😉

 

[DIPEA]

There Are Many Pharmacy Informatics Jobs

Learn why pharmacists are in a great position to join the fastest-growing area in health care: technology

www.pharmacytimes.com

Speaking of $$$, I don't think there is much room of growth in hospitals in terms of promotions and salary increase. That's also why I am never a fan of residencies.
I personally know many SDEs. Yes, they are good problem solvers, but most can barely communicate effectively in english, especially those coming from China or India. If there is only one strength that should come out of pharmd, it has to be communication. I would rather be a project manager in IT telling SDEs what to do than being a pharmacy informatician getting told by almost everyone else in a hospital what I should do for them.

 

[Momus]

The only website you should be looking up to lmao... There are at least 70 companies listed there you can apply to in SV if you don't get into the big 6. Move your way up slowly.

Levels.fyi | Salaries & Tools to Level Up Your Career

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[DIPEA]

You can join hospital and keep your skills or you can do residency 😉

One of the main motivator for what I am doing now is that I want to hedge my bets against future uncertainties.
It's not just I don't like residency, but I think residency will lock me down further to the "clinical" side (pun intended). If pharmacy as a whole is going down, I really don't think the sub-field of pharmacy informatics could flourish as much, if at all. So I rather do something completely unrelated. I think in finance, that idea is called portfolio diversification 😉

 

[Lubeckd]

exacto.

One of the main motivator for what I am doing now is that I want to hedge my bets against future uncertainties.
It's not just I don't like residency, but I think residency will lock me down further to the "clinical" side (pun intended). If pharmacy as a whole is going down, I really don't think the sub-field of pharmacy informatics could flourish as much, if at all. So I rather do something completely unrelated. I think in finance, that idea is called portfolio diversification 😉

lol, I have my escape plans in place as well. hahah.

Speaking of $$$, I don't think there is much room of growth in hospitals in terms of promotions and salary increase. That's also why I am never a fan of residencies.
I personally know many SDEs. Yes, they are good problem solvers, but most can barely communicate effectively in english, especially those coming from China or India. If there is only one strength that should come out of pharmd, it has to be communication. I would rather be a project manager in IT telling SDEs what to do than being a pharmacy informatician getting told by almost everyone else in a hospital what I should do for them.

actually if I ever per diem to the hospitals Ill let you know. lol yes, I have my exit plans ready. True, Im not really fond of the clinical side, just professors acting high and mighty. Yes its best not to have your eggs in one basket. A lot of people in this forum don't understand that. Did you try a IT rotations? lot of 340b.... mines had me doing stuff unrelated to IT work lol.

 

[DIPEA]

exacto.

lol, I have my escape plans in place as well. hahah.

actually if I ever per diem to the hospitals Ill let you know. lol yes, I have my exit plans ready. True, Im not really fond of the clinical side, just professors acting high and mighty. Yes its best not to have your eggs in one basket. A lot of people in this forum don't understand that. Did you try a IT rotations? lot of 340b.... mines had me doing stuff unrelated to IT work lol.

I will have an IT rotation coming up in a few months, but honestly I don't have much expectation to learn much from it tho. Maybe a recommendation letter from my preceptor, who is a pharmacy informatics specialist, when I apply to georgia tech next year? That's the best scenario I could think of.
Just like the law profession never rebounded after the great recession, once pharmacy goes downhill, it's gonna be all slippery slope from that point on. It's finished, period. No top tier students would ever consider that career path again.

 

[Lubeckd]

I will have an IT rotation coming up in a few months, but honestly I don't have much expectation to learn much from it tho. Maybe a recommendation letter from my preceptor, who is a pharmacy informatics specialist, when I apply to georgia tech next year? That's the best scenario I could think of.
Just like the law profession never rebounded after the great recession, once pharmacy goes downhill, it's gonna be all slippery slope from that point on. It's finished, period. No top tier students would ever consider that career path again.

True, if you are smart enough. You can change fields. I have some connections right now to switch as well. We are at the cross roads... like industrial revolution. Soon iron smithing, gold miners like pharmacy will disappear. Amazon is retraining all its stuff. I feel so bad I choose this profession.

 

[DIPEA]

True, if you are smart enough. You can change fields. I have some connections right now to switch as well. We are at the cross roads... like industrial revolution. Soon iron smithing, gold miners like pharmacy will disappear. Amazon is retraining all its stuff. I feel so bad I choose this profession.

Each era has its own trends and opportunities. For any industry, either it's a flourish or a demise, there will be a plentiful of opportunities coming out of both ways. Just like in finance, bulls and shorts can all make loads of $$$ off stocks as long as there are fluctuations. The same will be for pharmacy. Yes, pharmacy will evolve, probably with less human involvement and more AI input, but pharmacy will never disappear. It will require additional skill sets other than just being a warm body capable of counting by fives. The weak will be inevitably weeded out, and the strong will be making more. I think the key is to change the mentality of feeling cozy in a comfort zone, because there will be no comfort zone after all. Like stocks, we need to feel less emotionally attached to any specific profession, such as pharmacy, and if we can make $$$ as being bulls, then let's keep doing it. If we can't, let's switch sides and play the shorts and make $$$ from its decline by facilitating the "evolution" and displacing human workers by algorithms. If a field dies, let it die. Just be smart enough to not stick too long with it.

That being said, I do feel bad for those who paid quarter of a million dollars to fund their education. I have friends graduating from stanford and columbia law school this year with mountains of debt telling me the legal job market is awful, and I have friends at google who just had a cs bachelor from berkeley making more than an average internal medicine doctor. We are not the best off financially, but I am sure we are definitely not the worst.

 

[Lubeckd]

Each era has its own trends and opportunities. For any industry, either it's a flourish or a demise, there will be a plentiful of opportunities coming out of both ways. Just like in finance, bulls and shorts can all make loads of $$$ off stocks as long as there are fluctuations. The same will be for pharmacy. Yes, pharmacy will evolve, probably with less human involvement and more AI input, but pharmacy will never disappear. It will require additional skill sets other than just being a warm body capable of counting by fives. The weak will be inevitably weeded out, and the strong will be making more. I think the key is to change the mentality of feeling cozy in a comfort zone, because there will be no comfort zone after all. Like stocks, we need to feel less emotionally attached to any specific profession, such as pharmacy, and if we can make $$$ as being bulls, then let's keep doing it. If we can't, let's switch sides and play the shorts and make $$$ from its decline by facilitating the "evolution" and displacing human workers by algorithms. If a field dies, let it die. Just be smart enough to not stick too long with it.

That being said, I do feel bad for those who paid quarter of a million dollars to fund their education. I have friends graduating from stanford and columbia law school this year with mountains of debt telling me the legal job market is awful, and I have friends at google who just had a cs bachelor from berkeley making more than an average internal medicine doctor. We are not the best off financially, but I am sure we are definitely not the worst.

currently on merging and manipulating data frame with pandas in Data science. About 30 percent there. What do you think about Full stack or blockchain?

 

[DIPEA]

currently on merging and manipulating data frame with pandas in Data science. About 30 percent there. What do you think about Full stack or blockchain?

good progress! keep going~
I always wanted to do full stack, but never managed to dedicate much time to it. I think I will be spending a lot of time on it eventually, after I graduate from GT and work in data science. 😉 It will be my next challenge haha.
I don't know much about blockchain, so I can't really say anything about it.

As a sidenote, someone posted a quite lengthy thread on subreddit saying that he recently got a new job offer with annual package of ~300k after he graduated from GT OMSCS program, nearly doubling his current pay. He had years of experience of course, but this really shows where the real $$$ is and makes me eager to go further. maybe I should continue with GT OMSCS after master of analytics. 3-4 years combined with capped 16k tuition total, all online so I can keep working, can't find a better deal than this, at least wayyyy better than PGY1, PGY2, PGY3... bulls**t in pharmacy

 

[Lubeckd]

good progress! keep going~
I always wanted to do full stack, but never managed to dedicate much time to it. I think I will be spending a lot of time on it eventually, after I graduate from GT and work in data science. 😉 It will be my next challenge haha.
I don't know much about blockchain, so I can't really say anything about it.

As a sidenote, someone posted a quite lengthy thread on subreddit saying that he recently got a new job offer with annual package of ~300k after he graduated from GT OMSCS program, nearly doubling his current pay. He had years of experience of course, but this really shows where the real $$$ is and makes me eager to go further. maybe I should continue with GT OMSCS after master of analytics. 3-4 years combined with capped 16k tuition total, all online so I can keep working, can't find a better deal than this, at least wayyyy better than PGY1, PGY2, PGY3... bulls**t in pharmacy

maybe pharmacy and healthcare bubble will burst soon. Reimbursement less and less. Pharmacies closing everywhere. LinkedIn’s 2017 U.S. Emerging Jobs Report
Tech is growing at 93 percent per year in data science according to this graph. Im starting to think more and more in tech. Maybe I should switch forums lol. okay you can go that route ahahha. I think Ill pursue blockchains afterwards and let you know about it. Googling a few difference with blockchain and Data science made me interested. So far I think the salary for blockchains pay the most. See tech makes the world a better place, the people like elon musk.

 

[firework]

good progress! keep going~
I always wanted to do full stack, but never managed to dedicate much time to it. I think I will be spending a lot of time on it eventually, after I graduate from GT and work in data science. 😉 It will be my next challenge haha.
I don't know much about blockchain, so I can't really say anything about it.

As a sidenote, someone posted a quite lengthy thread on subreddit saying that he recently got a new job offer with annual package of ~300k after he graduated from GT OMSCS program, nearly doubling his current pay. He had years of experience of course, but this really shows where the real $$$ is and makes me eager to go further. maybe I should continue with GT OMSCS after master of analytics. 3-4 years combined with capped 16k tuition total, all online so I can keep working, can't find a better deal than this, at least wayyyy better than PGY1, PGY2, PGY3... bulls**t in pharmacy

I am thinking of teaching myself data science too. My husband works in IT, which is helpful. But the problem with this career route is, there doesn't exist an established job market that both data science skills and pharmacy knowledge are sought after. So it's like you have to give up pharmacy. Of course you can sell yourself as an IT guy with pharmacist license, but that's not gonna be reflected on you paycheck.

 

[Lubeckd]

I am thinking of teaching myself data science too. My husband works in IT, which is helpful. But the problem with this career route is, there doesn't exist an established job market that both data science skills and pharmacy knowledge are sought after. So it's like you have to give up pharmacy. Of course you can sell yourself as an IT guy with pharmacist license, but that's not gonna be reflected on you paycheck.

eh wrong. They need the 340b, working on data analytics . Its all data.

There Are Many Pharmacy Informatics Jobs

Learn why pharmacists are in a great position to join the fastest-growing area in health care: technology

www.pharmacytimes.com

literally says data analytics
Keep in mind analytics and data science are two different tracks, but similar

 

[Lubeckd]

Most people will just become IT Pharmacist from residency. You also have to know that data science and IT are two different fields. One is just working with Data. It can be used for prediction. If you learn Data analytics you will be using R and Python... very different from hospital programs like EPIC

 

[abrahamdrinkin]

I am thinking of teaching myself data science too. My husband works in IT, which is helpful. But the problem with this career route is, there doesn't exist an established job market that both data science skills and pharmacy knowledge are sought after. So it's like you have to give up pharmacy. Of course you can sell yourself as an IT guy with pharmacist license, but that's not gonna be reflected on you paycheck.

Right—like data science and analytics as a path starts with internships and entry level jobs. The money’s not great at first. There’s lots of openings so you can probably move up quickly but no ones gonna hire you at a higher level without that baseline. Huge payout to be entry level.

 

[Lubeckd]

At this point if you have knowledge and pharmacy you know which stocks can go up and down really. Anything that has less than a 20 less growth rate in jobs like pharmacy 6 percent is bad

 

[firework]

Most people will just become IT Pharmacist from residency. You also have to know that data science and IT are two different fields. One is just working with Data. It can be used for prediction. If you learn Data analytics you will be using R and Python... very different from hospital programs like EPIC

I don't know hospital IT, and that's not what I pursue, I don't have clinical experience. But general speaking, IT and data science are not that different. Data science writes codes too. If you write codes, it's hard to tell my parents you are not IT. A side thought, data science used to be called database.