Army MS1 summer training, kinda unique problem

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

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So traditionally Army folks do DCC/BOLC over the summer unless you have some kind of extenuating circumstance. I am a transgender service member in HPSP. There seems to be a good chance that Trump attempts to kick us all out in January based on the talking points he's throwing around; he also attempted to do this last time and failed to get folks already in separated but did reinstate a trans ban for new entries. My guess is that any schools/training for us would likely be paused while this shakes out? But truly who knows.

My med school won't allow me to apply to paid research opportunities as a backup for something to do in case I do end up being separated from service. Should I just delay and not schedule DCC/BOLC and wait and see? Do a research summer and pad my civi resume in case things don't work out with the military? If I skip M1 summer DCC/BOLC how does the scheduling shake out later?

I have always planned to do military medicine so the idea of getting kicked out before my career begins due to political theatre is really upsetting me and I want to be sure I'm not acting irrationally.' Id love to hear thoughts of some folks with more perspective or insight. Thanks!

 

[xffan624]

So traditionally Army folks do DCC/BOLC over the summer unless you have some kind of extenuating circumstance. I am a transgender service member in HPSP. There seems to be a good chance that Trump attempts to kick us all out in January based on the talking points he's throwing around; he also attempted to do this last time and failed to get folks already in separated but did reinstate a trans ban for new entries. My guess is that any schools/training for us would likely be paused while this shakes out? But truly who knows.

My med school won't allow me to apply to paid research opportunities as a backup for something to do in case I do end up being separated from service. Should I just delay and not schedule DCC/BOLC and wait and see? Do a research summer and pad my civi resume in case things don't work out with the military? If I skip M1 summer DCC/BOLC how does the scheduling shake out later?

I have always planned to do military medicine so the idea of getting kicked out before my career begins due to political theatre is really upsetting me and I want to be sure I'm not acting irrationally.' Id love to hear thoughts of some folks with more perspective or insight. Thanks!

I'm sorry this is happening, but I think you need think a little more forward beyond DCC/BOLC about what happens to the tuition money they've paid for you if you're not able to serve due to some kind of ban. This might require some kind of public service repayment on your part regardless. I would schedule DCC/BOLC assuming you have nothing else to do (who knows what the future will bring?, when the military sees their diminishing recruitment numbers I suspect their appetite for exclusion is going to diminish as well). Plenty of MS1s don't do much this first summer so it's not something to worry about and you have a good reason and time to catch up if you're trying for competitive residencies (may be complicated by my previous statement above re: repayment) regardless.

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

I'm sorry this is happening, but I think you need think a little more forward beyond DCC/BOLC about what happens to the tuition money they've paid for you if you're not able to serve due to some kind of ban. This might require some kind of public service repayment on your part regardless. I would schedule DCC/BOLC assuming you have nothing else to do (who knows what the future will bring?, when the military sees their diminishing recruitment numbers I suspect their appetite for exclusion is going to diminish as well). Plenty of MS1s don't do much this first summer so it's not something to worry about and you have a good reason and time to catch up if you're trying for competitive residencies (may be complicated by my previous statement above re: repayment) regardless.

I have thought about repayment but frankly I have no idea what would be involved. I'm aware that being medically DQ'd requires repayment. Would they maybe send me over to the VA or NHSC or something or would they seriously kick me out for something I was already cleared for then demand I pay them back? I have no idea of any precedent here.

I'm not necessarily pursuing something competitive with my whole heart at this time but I don't want to close any doors.

 

[pgg]

I'm aware that being medically DQ'd requires repayment.

That usually isn't the case, unless the medical disqualification results from some kind of misconduct or illegal activity, or falsification of your entry documents.

If you lie about an existing condition prior to entry, and it later disqualifies you, you'll get kicked out and get a bill.

If you get shot robbing a liquor store, or get a DUI and injury in a crash - you'll get kicked out and almost certainly get a bill.

If you get sick or develop a condition through no fault of your own that's incompatible with service, you'll get separated but almost certainly won't get a bill.

The military + transgender issue is relatively new without a lot of precedent, but the salient points here are that you entered legally, without any kind of misrepresentation or lying on your part. If they change the policy and decide you can't serve, you should (and probably will) be released from service without anything due.

If there is ever any threat of handing you a bill, you should get a lawyer and fight it. You'll win.

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

That usually isn't the case, unless the medical disqualification results from some kind of misconduct or illegal activity, or falsification of your entry documents.

If you lie about an existing condition prior to entry, and it later disqualifies you, you'll get kicked out and get a bill.

If you get shot robbing a liquor store, or get a DUI and injury in a crash - you'll get kicked out and almost certainly get a bill.

If you get sick or develop a condition through no fault of your own that's incompatible with service, you'll get separated but almost certainly won't get a bill.

The military + transgender issue is relatively new without a lot of precedent, but the salient points here are that you entered legally, without any kind of misrepresentation or lying on your part. If they change the policy and decide you can't serve, you should (and probably will) be released from service without anything due.

If there is ever any threat of handing you a bill, you should get a lawyer and fight it. You'll win.

This is relieving to hear. Thank you for this. I just was reading the HPSP Handbook and it said you could be on the hook for repayment and took that as "will."

 

[DrMetal]

, you'll get kicked out and get a bill.

Has anyone actually known someone that got a bill? (after leaving service prematurely, say it was their fault?) I'm honestly curious if there really are bean-counters keeping track. In the case of USUHS, I do know several who go out and were never made to pay anything back. Pretty great scam.

 

[xffan624]

Has anyone actually known someone that got a bill? (after leaving service prematurely, say it was their fault?) I'm honestly curious if there really are bean-counters keeping track. In the case of USUHS, I do know several who go out and were never made to pay anything back. Pretty great scam.

I knew a least one person who left medical school early due to "personal reasons" (I think maybe he was in USUHS?), was still eligible for commissioning otherwise, and was required to repay the time as a medical service corps officer.

 

[Apollyon]

I knew a least one person who left medical school early due to "personal reasons" (I think maybe he was in USUHS?), was still eligible for commissioning otherwise, and was required to repay the time as a medical service corps officer.

But not cut a check for $500k. At least you get paid as MSC.

 

[DrMetal]

But not cut a check for $500k. At least you get paid as MSC.

That's right. It's one thing to require a service payback. But I have never heard of someone actually getting a bill.

With USUHS: it's a federally funded program, there is no 'loan'. As such, there is no technical financial debt. No one signs a contract stating they will pay back XXX amount of $$$ if they fail. As such, there is no strict line of accounting (I think this is right, could be wrong)

With HPSP: there is a contract, there is a formal loan, an exchange of $$$ between the gov't and a civilian institution. So, I think there's better accountability.

Maybe DOGE will fix all of this!

 

[pgg]

Has anyone actually known someone that got a bill? (after leaving service prematurely, say it was their fault?) I'm honestly curious if there really are bean-counters keeping track. In the case of USUHS, I do know several who go out and were never made to pay anything back. Pretty great scam.

Yes (HPSP recipient) though I don't know the details (interest? length of repayment?) that they worked out.

I don't know any USUHS students/grads who left early and got a bill. I have heard of some who got rerouted to medical service corps kind of jobs where they served out time owed. I have no idea how they'd even put a plausible $ value on that. It wouldn't surprise me if the government just washed its hands of the whole thing and let some go, admin sep in the best interest of the government.

 

[TheEarDoc]

Sign up for DCC/BOLC and drive on as if all is normal. You can't really know for sure what the future brings. Just keep doing what is required of you as a medical officer and try not to worry so much about politics.

 

[Onefellswoop87]

Sign up for DCC/BOLC and drive on as if all is normal. You can't really know for sure what the future brings. Just keep doing what is required of you as a medical officer and try not to worry so much about politics.

100% agree with this advice. Continue the path you are on, because if you don’t based on an expectation to be out-processed from a POTUS tweet/executive order and that doesn’t happen, the military won’t care for excuses.
I’ve seen it on the enlisted side that the member thought their discharge orders would be processed by a specific date, so they didn’t sign up for requirement. Discharge got delayed, Command Master Chief didn’t care for excuse, member punished for not signing up and therefore not attending requirement.

 

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

Has anyone actually known someone that got a bill? (after leaving service prematurely, say it was their fault?)

I knew an HPSP recipient who flunked out after MS1. No bill.

I knew multiple HPSP recipients who washed out during residency. They were transferred to the MSC and rode a desk to pay back their med school ADSO.

I knew a couple attendings who were separated because they refused the COVID vax. The ones with just a training ADSO received no bill. One doc I knew was in the midst of a multiyear retention bonus ADSO. He got a bill for the prorated portion of that year's bonus that he didn't fulfill at the time of separation, but otherwise went on his merry way.

OPs situation is a horse of a different color, but I agree with the advice given above. Go to BOLC as scheduled and fulfill the military's requirements. If separation is the end result at some point in the future, you'll be far more likely to be released scot-free having completed all the military's requirements.