MS3 Away rotations

[nowai]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

I'm a Canadian student going into 3rd year this September and I was wondering what your thoughts were about MS3 away rotations in the States. In Canada, it is fairly common for students to do away rotations at close by schools during their elective time in third year but from the very few people I've talked to, I've been told that in the States, away rotations are usually reserved for 4th years.

1. Is that true?

2. Does doing an elective at the school mean anything when it comes to application time? I know in Canada schools like University of Toronto and University of British Columbia will not even bother interviewing candidates unless a rotation was done there (for some specialties). With so many amazing schools in the States, they can't expect students to do an elective to be considered serious applicants (can they?!).

3. If the majority of away rotations are 4th year students doing sub-internships, how badly would it look to the attendings to have a middle of MS3 student rotating through?

Thanks!

 

[pincheeric]

1. Yes, very few US schools even have 3rd year elective time.

2. Doing an away rotation allows you to make an impression on that program so that when interview time comes around they have more than just an application to judge you by. Many programs will grant away-rotatees an interview as a courtesy. Not all programs only match students that do rotations at their institute, however, it can help you get a foot in the door.

3. Away rotations are meant to show a program how good of a candidate you are. If you haven't completed all of the core clerkships you may be at a disadvantage on your aways. Some programs may even require you to have completed all of your core rotations before coming through their program.

 

[elr1983]

I'm a Canadian student going into 3rd year this September and I was wondering what your thoughts were about MS3 away rotations in the States. In Canada, it is fairly common for students to do away rotations at close by schools during their elective time in third year but from the very few people I've talked to, I've been told that in the States, away rotations are usually reserved for 4th years.

1. Is that true?

2. Does doing an elective at the school mean anything when it comes to application time? I know in Canada schools like University of Toronto and University of British Columbia will not even bother interviewing candidates unless a rotation was done there (for some specialties). With so many amazing schools in the States, they can't expect students to do an elective to be considered serious applicants (can they?!).

3. If the majority of away rotations are 4th year students doing sub-internships, how badly would it look to the attendings to have a middle of MS3 student rotating through?

Thanks!

Yea, it's more common for people to do away rotations as a fourth year than a third year. However, on one of my core clerkships (non-elective) we had a visiting third year student from another US school. I'm not sure why she was there (if it was actually an audition, or she just needed to be in this area, or what). As far as I could tell, she got treated like any other third year from my school (same patient load, same requirement for the end of rotation exam, presentation, etc). So I don't think it would look "bad" to do an away as a third year.

Some of my classmates also did electives away third year and I think they uniformly had good experiences. Usually it was done if they were interested in a field you wouldn't see third year, like neuro, ophtho, derm, etc. I mean, if you're auditioning I'd make sure you had a few of your required clerkships under your belt so you're not totally clueless when you get there, but I don't think it's necessary to have everything first....how much will ob or psych or peds really help you on an ophthalmology rotation, for example.

It may actually be beneficial for you to do an away in the spring of your third year....no fourth years are trying to get aways at this point since the match is already over, so you'd be much more likely to get one of these sometimes competitive spots. And you'd certainly have plenty of time to get a letter out of it. 🙂

I have no idea about the process for visiting students from other countries...sorry I can't help you there. 🙂

 

[nowai]

Thanks guys, you both brought up good points. I'll have peds, family, internal, and surg under my belt before my elective time and I'm thinking of doing it in emerg, something we don't get to rotate through until 4th year. The two I'll be missing from the end of third year will be obs/gyn and psych. Hopefully it'll be alright (if I even get that elective spot).

 

[Ashers]

Yea, it's more common for people to do away rotations as a fourth year than a third year. However, on one of my core clerkships (non-elective) we had a visiting third year student from another US school. I'm not sure why she was there (if it was actually an audition, or she just needed to be in this area, or what). As far as I could tell, she got treated like any other third year from my school (same patient load, same requirement for the end of rotation exam, presentation, etc). So I don't think it would look "bad" to do an away as a third year.

Some of my classmates also did electives away third year and I think they uniformly had good experiences. Usually it was done if they were interested in a field you wouldn't see third year, like neuro, ophtho, derm, etc. I mean, if you're auditioning I'd make sure you had a few of your required clerkships under your belt so you're not totally clueless when you get there, but I don't think it's necessary to have everything first....how much will ob or psych or peds really help you on an ophthalmology rotation, for example.

It may actually be beneficial for you to do an away in the spring of your third year....no fourth years are trying to get aways at this point since the match is already over, so you'd be much more likely to get one of these sometimes competitive spots. And you'd certainly have plenty of time to get a letter out of it. 🙂

I have no idea about the process for visiting students from other countries...sorry I can't help you there. 🙂

A lot of the schools I researched for aways required one to have completed their core clerkships before rotating. Some schools require the same number of weeks as their own curriculum, so it's basically necessary to be a 4th year and have completed all core clerkships before aways.

 

[SoCuteMD]

Thanks guys, you both brought up good points. I'll have peds, family, internal, and surg under my belt before my elective time and I'm thinking of doing it in emerg, something we don't get to rotate through until 4th year. The two I'll be missing from the end of third year will be obs/gyn and psych. Hopefully it'll be alright (if I even get that elective spot).

If you do get an EM rotation before you've done ob/gyn, make SURE you read up on vaginal bleeding in general, first trimester bleeding, and the various types of abortions (complete, incomplete, missed, etc.) as well as gynecologic causes of abdominal pain. These together were easily 1/3 of my patients in a day in the emergency department!

 

[nowai]

A lot of the schools I researched for aways required one to have completed their core clerkships before rotating. Some schools require the same number of weeks as their own curriculum, so it's basically necessary to be a 4th year and have completed all core clerkships before aways.

Ya, I checked into the school I am interested in and they said they considered peds, internal, and surg to be core. Just squeezed by (I hope). The reason I want to do an away rotation there is because I'm hoping one of my LORs can be from their faculty, rather than some Canadian doctor they might not know/whose reference they don't value as much.

If you do get an EM rotation before you've done ob/gyn, make SURE you read up on vaginal bleeding in general, first trimester bleeding, and the various types of abortions (complete, incomplete, missed, etc.) as well as gynecologic causes of abdominal pain. These together were easily 1/3 of my patients in a day in the emergency department!

No vaginal exams of late term pregnancy bleeding until you've ruled out placental previa and abruptio placentae has been drilled into my head but I'll for sure read up obs/gyn and psych a bit before I go.

 

[SoCuteMD]

Ya, I checked into the school I am interested in and they said they considered peds, internal, and surg to be core. Just squeezed by (I hope). The reason I want to do an away rotation there is because I'm hoping one of my LORs can be from their faculty, rather than some Canadian doctor they might not know/whose reference they don't value as much.



No vaginal exams of late term pregnancy bleeding until you've ruled out placental previa and abruptio placentae has been drilled into my head but I'll for sure read up obs/gyn and psych a bit before I go.

You won't be managing late term pregnancy in the ED. It'll be first trimester vaginal bleeding - you should have the diff dx and workup down pat.

 

[Acherona]

in canada schools like to take their own for residency. in the states, diversity of experience is more highly valued. Also the population is a lot larger with more spots and programs so the chance that you do an away rotation at a place you later match is much lower. Therefore doing an away at that place is less important.

you can do them in third year but it depends on the school and the rotation. I did pathology as a third year, and other people I know did peds, family, and rads. the peds one was hard to get, and i think medicine would be impossible because they are filled with the school's own third and fourth years so forget about it (it's hard enough getting an away sub-i in 4th yr). You should really check it out on a case by case basis and speak with/email directly the attending or coordinator/director of the clerkship (don't trust the secretaries they will always tell you you can't do it).

I'm a Canadian student going into 3rd year this September and I was wondering what your thoughts were about MS3 away rotations in the States. In Canada, it is fairly common for students to do away rotations at close by schools during their elective time in third year but from the very few people I've talked to, I've been told that in the States, away rotations are usually reserved for 4th years.

1. Is that true?

2. Does doing an elective at the school mean anything when it comes to application time? I know in Canada schools like University of Toronto and University of British Columbia will not even bother interviewing candidates unless a rotation was done there (for some specialties). With so many amazing schools in the States, they can't expect students to do an elective to be considered serious applicants (can they?!).

3. If the majority of away rotations are 4th year students doing sub-internships, how badly would it look to the attendings to have a middle of MS3 student rotating through?

Thanks!

 

[JeffLebowski]

If you do get an EM rotation before you've done ob/gyn, make SURE you read up on vaginal bleeding in general, first trimester bleeding, and the various types of abortions (complete, incomplete, missed, etc.) as well as gynecologic causes of abdominal pain. These together were easily 1/3 of my patients in a day in the emergency department!

You won't be managing late term pregnancy in the ED. It'll be first trimester vaginal bleeding - you should have the diff dx and workup down pat.

Dude, is this really helpful? It sounds like you're pimping him. He said he'd read up.

 

[snowhard]

in canada schools like to take their own for residency. in the states, diversity of experience is more highly valued. Also the population is a lot larger with more spots and programs so the chance that you do an away rotation at a place you later match is much lower. Therefore doing an away at that place is less important.

you can do them in third year but it depends on the school and the rotation. I did pathology as a third year, and other people I know did peds, family, and rads. the peds one was hard to get, and i think medicine would be impossible because they are filled with the school's own third and fourth years so forget about it (it's hard enough getting an away sub-i in 4th yr). You should really check it out on a case by case basis and speak with/email directly the attending or coordinator/director of the clerkship (don't trust the secretaries they will always tell you you can't do it).

I am a second year in Toronto interested in going to the US for residency... My understanding was the a sub-i was not required for Canadians going to the US.

Also, there are a places to do an away in the US with just Peds/IM/Sugery... depends on what elective it is.

 

[SoCuteMD]

Dude, is this really helpful? It sounds like you're pimping him. He said he'd read up.

Actually, I tend to find it VERY helpful when people make concrete suggestions on the things that I need to know.

 

[nowai]

Actually, I tend to find it VERY helpful when people make concrete suggestions on the things that I need to know.

Yes, thanks for your advice, it was very helpful!

 

[Acherona]

I am a second year in Toronto interested in going to the US for residency... My understanding was the a sub-i was not required for Canadians going to the US.

Also, there are a places to do an away in the US with just Peds/IM/Sugery... depends on what elective it is.

i was saying american students doing cores and sub-i's will be filling up all the Internal medicine spots therefore it would be difficult to get this rotation as a visiting third year. And nothing is *required*, but don't you think if american students have to do sub-i's that it would be prudent to make yourself look comparable? American PD's have no idea what the education is like in canada, they want to be able to compare you to americans and know that you can function at the sub-i level. This is no problem (if U of T is anything like mcgill), the sub-i in the US is a joke. I am doing one right now and you count as "1/2 an intern", max out at like 4 patients, and have to even get your progress notes cosigned.

yes you can do electives in third year in these areas but it is not easy to find one. i would recommend doing something else like rads/path or doing your first elective in canada.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Actually, I tend to find it VERY helpful when people make concrete suggestions on the things that I need to know.

Alright, fair enough. The original guy appreciated the input. I take back my criticism.