MS4 from wake forest in HOT water!!!

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Med students; don't be that student. That student could be dismissed for this. A few years ago a Touro-NY grad was kicked out of her residency program for having a pre-medical school post history of anti-Semitic comments and even joking about how she'd give the wrong medicine to Jews.
 
1) That's unacceptable. Can't judge patients for their beliefs no matter whether you disagree with them, let alone actively inflict harm (no matter how minor you think it may be) because of them.
2) Exhibit #3,485 why you shouldn't post on social media, and especially not about patients.
 
The most alarming thing is that if what she said is 100% true, and not an attempt to be a self righteous soldier for a cause she likely does not understand, then she is harming people in vulnerable positions just because they make comments that she deems offensive.

probably not a good idea to let her near sharp objects and medications.

Seriously though, in my field ive had many people threaten me multiple times, and the idea of someone being intentionally physically harmed just because of one remark like that is pretty disgusting. Especially someone in a hospital setting.
 
Goro said:
Med students; don't be that student. That student could be dismissed for this. A few years ago a Touro-NY grad was kicked out of her residency program for having a pre-medical school post history of anti-Semitic comments and even joking about how she'd give the wrong medicine to Jews.
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I mean I kind of hope those people post these things (racist/sexist/etc) more often and get their just desserts.

To the student here in question, if her action was intentional post-insult (hard to necessarily tell by the wording of the tweet but seems to be implied), then ofc you can't go harming a patient. Have I turned a blind eye to someone who has attacked another who has said a racial slur, a deragtory term, etc.? Oh 100%. As a physician, however, you can't act in such a way unless it was in self-defense of yourself or another.

Also, not relevant to the issue at hand, but man is this article poorly written from a journalistic perspective. Cringey af.
 
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CanIBeAnonymous said:
Also, not relevant to the issue at hand, but man is this article poorly written from a journalistic perspective.
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I read Fox News fairly frequently, just to know what "the other side" is reading... and this is usual fare. Pick up a viral tweet/social media post that got a strong reaction, pepper quotes from talking heads with buzzwords like "left-wing propaganda," and voila. Content.
 
Dr. Anonymouss said:
www.foxnews.com

Wake Forest medical student suggests she stuck patient twice with needle after he called out her pronoun pin

Wake Forest School of Medicine fourth-year student in North Carolina said she purposely missed a vein so a patient had to get "stuck twice" because he asked about her pronoun pin.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
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Couple thoughts.

1.) Call it SPF commentary, but I watch Fox News for entertainment and occasionally a good perspective. I will say they often go searching for these kinds of stories. This person’s actions don’t represent the transgender community.

2.) You can have your career ruined for stuff that even has the potential to be potentially evidence that you were considering making a joke about something that could have hypothetically affected patient care if you did it. Meanwhile, an attending physician can verbally mock a patient while talking to his/her colleague and it goes nowhere unless that one colleague reports which just highlights the danger of having something on social media. Sorry to tie it to this, but this is what makes things like the Will Smith incident this past Sunday so ridiculous. Regular folk can have their career ruined for a tweet while a celebrity can go on international television, slap someone, and get a standing ovation for it at the Oscar’s. Also, let’s not forget to mention that whatever we write now can be looked at 30 years from now and seen as inappropriate and we may get grief for it then.
 
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GoSpursGo said:
I read Fox News fairly frequently, just to know what "the other side" is reading... and this is usual fare. Pick up a viral tweet/social media post that got a strong reaction, pepper quotes from talking heads with buzzwords like "left-wing propaganda," and voila. Content.
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You read my mind. I was typing this as you were typing.
 
Dr. Anonymouss said:
www.foxnews.com

Wake Forest medical student suggests she stuck patient twice with needle after he called out her pronoun pin

Wake Forest School of Medicine fourth-year student in North Carolina said she purposely missed a vein so a patient had to get "stuck twice" because he asked about her pronoun pin.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
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It was unclear whether Del Rosario will face any disciplinary action or criminal charges.
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Is it too much to ask if she should be expelled?
 
Lawpy said:
Is it too much to ask if she should be expelled?
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It should be an investigation, not immediate expulsion. The tweet could be a lie (which, according to most student handbooks, would still probably warrant some sort of disciplinary action), the tweet could also be read as "fortunately for me I did miss unintentionally and had to prick them again" and not as them intentionally missing.
 
CanIBeAnonymous said:
It should be an investigation, not immediate expulsion. The tweet could be a lie (which, according to most student handbooks, would still probably warrant some sort of disciplinary action), the tweet could also be read as "fortunately for me I did miss unintentionally and had to prick them again" and not as them intentionally missing.
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I mean to lie about such a thing is problematic in itself. But if the article is entirely based on a tweet and not on an actual incident that happened (which is what i initially thought was the case), i don’t know what to make of it
 
Lawpy said:
I mean to lie about such a thing is problematic in itself. But if the article is entirely based on a tweet and not on an actual incident that happened (which is what i initially thought was the case), i don’t know what to make of it
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I mean, it's a tweet from the student in question. If they did not mean what they said literally, that is their own fault for posting something like that on the internet. I am a very strong proponent of understanding that people make stupid mistakes and should be given second chances... but this clearly puts the school in a very difficult situation.
 
Redpancreas said:
Couple thoughts.

1.) Call it SPF commentary, but I watch Fox News for entertainment and occasionally a good perspective. I will say they often go searching for these kinds of stories. This person’s actions don’t represent the transgender community.

2.) You can have your career ruined for stuff that even has the potential to be potentially evidence that you were considering making a joke about something that could have hypothetically affected patient care if you did it. Meanwhile, an attending physician can verbally mock a patient while talking to his/her colleague and it goes nowhere which just highlights the danger of having something on social media. Sorry to tie it to this, but this is what makes things like the Will Smith incident this past Sunday so ridiculous. Regular folk can have their career ruined for it while someone can go on international television, slap someone, and get a standing ovation for it at the Oscar’s. Also, let’s not forget to mention that whatever we write now can be looked at 30 years from now and seen as inappropriate and we may get grief for it then.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say Fox News is the only one that goes searching for these kinds of stories. CNN and the left leaning news outlets do the same, as they did during the entire trump era.

Now I don't want to derail the thread and make this political, (even though this issue is most likely 50% political and 50% stupidity on the medical students part), but I see this entire incident as a "taste of your own medicine" kind of thing. I think we can fairly agree that the majority of academia and medical students are left leaning and as such are not used to the other side of this whole cancel culture thing. I have seen how this student has deleted all of her social media and there are posts on wake forests medical school facebook page asking what will be done and if she will be expelled etc. I want it to be clear that I absolutely despise the idea of cancel culture. I think it is a terrible thing that has emerged in the 21st century, but at the same time this whole cancel culture thing has predominantly (almost entirely) affected republican and right winged individuals. It is something new to see an individual who (by assumption of her ideologies and blog posts) is left leaning to be affected by cancel culture. I think we can all agree that what she did was incredibly stupid and she should be reprimanded by the school for this. But at the same time, I hate the thought that many people are directly reaching out to wake forest asking for her to be removed. This puts a tremendous amount of pressure on wake forest which may likely give in to the pressure, only time will tell. The whole point of this rant though was to just say how cancel culture started out as a thing that predominantly affected republicans, but now no one is safe.
 
GoSpursGo said:
I mean, it's a tweet from the student in question. If they did not mean what they said literally, that is their own fault for posting something like that on the internet. I am a very strong proponent of understanding that people make stupid mistakes and should be given second chances... but this clearly puts the school in a very difficult situation.
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I’m wondering if this is grounds for professionalism violations. Because i think it is and people get punished for far less at other schools.
 
Lawpy said:
I’m wondering if this is grounds for professionalism violations. Because i think it is and people get punished for far less at other schools.
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It certainly is. A student non-anonymously, and associated with an institution, talked about an interaction they had with a patient in the frame of being happy harm came to said patient.

Though I see folks saying anti-vaxxers should just die / not be treated and they get away scot-free so *shrug* though I suppose in those situations those are uncouth opinions rather than directly involved in patient care.

This goes for situations I don't necessarily agree with ala George Clooney attacking the child abuser in ER. I applaud it, but he'd still require disciplinary action.
 
mistafab said:
You harm a patient on purpose - you deserve to be fired.

Expulsion without question.
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See that’s the thing. The article made it sound like as if the incident happened and it was intentional… except the entire article is apparently based on a tweet on an incident that may not have happened or could be very well an accident. It’s basically a crappy article intended to mislead
 
Dr. Anonymouss said:
www.foxnews.com

Wake Forest medical student suggests she stuck patient twice with needle after he called out her pronoun pin

Wake Forest School of Medicine fourth-year student in North Carolina said she purposely missed a vein so a patient had to get "stuck twice" because he asked about her pronoun pin.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
Click to expand...
The only way I see her not getting in big trouble is if she lied (which is weird and mad performative) or she actually missed the vein by accident and then tried to play it up on Twitter. Because it doesn't seem like she said she missed the vein intentionally based on what the article says.

Either way, you just cannot go into the profession if you want anything other than maximal healing for all of your patients. I grew up Black in the rural Deep South, and many people are very openly racist, but I would NEVER harm somebody. I'd be angry if they said something messed up, but couldn't fathom giving them anything other than my best effort regarding health.
 
Lawpy said:
See that’s the thing. The article made it sound like as if the incident happened and it was intentional… except the entire article is apparently based on a tweet on an incident that may not have happened or could be very well an accident. It’s basically a crappy article intended to mislead
Click to expand...
I didnt read the article. The optics on purposfully harming a patient is not good. If harm was done on purpose, that is not something that can be remediated out of a person. That would be physical assault.
 
Lawpy said:
See that’s the thing. The article made it sound like as if the incident happened and it was intentional… except the entire article is apparently based on a tweet on an incident that may not have happened or could be very well an accident. It’s basically a crappy article intended to mislead
Click to expand...
Yeah, but again it's based on a tweet that the student freely posted, and even if I read the tweet out of the context of the article (which I agree was written to cast the student as a villain) I would have read the tweet as the student bragging that they intentionally hurt a patient for saying something they found personally offensive. If that isn't what the student meant... then they shouldn't have said it.

Yes, it's a professionalism violation, and yes it's possible she could be expelled. She definitely would have been expelled if she, for example, punched the patient in the face, and I'm not sure that just because she harmed the patient in a way that gave her plausible deniability changes the underlying fact that she intentionally harmed a patient.
 
GoSpursGo said:
Yeah, but again it's based on a tweet that the student freely posted, and even if I read the tweet out of the context of the article (which I agree was written to cast the student as a villain) I would have read the tweet as the student bragging that they intentionally hurt a patient for saying something they found personally offensive. If that isn't what the student meant... then they shouldn't have said it.

Yes, it's a professionalism violation, and yes it's possible she could be expelled. She definitely would have been expelled if she, for example, punched the patient in the face, and I'm not sure that just because she harmed the patient in a way that gave her plausible deniability changes the underlying fact that she intentionally harmed a patient.
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And even if we give the most generous interpretation possible which is that she genuinely just missed the vein the first time (which certainly can happen), that tweet makes it pretty clear that she's at best not sorry that it happened and at worst pleased that the patient had to get stuck twice.

If she doesn't get expelled for this she should thank whoever made that decision on bended knee.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
And even if we give the most generous interpretation possible which is that she genuinely just missed the vein the first time (which certainly can happen), that tweet makes it pretty clear that she's at best not sorry that it happened and at worst pleased that the patient had to get stuck twice.

If she doesn't get expelled for this she should thank whoever made that decision on bended knee.
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This is a very good point. The lack of remorse, with what is interpreted as her satisfaction from causing the patient harm, is something that can't be ignored... even if we give her the benefit of the doubt that she accidentally missed the blood draw on the first attempt.
 
If true, this was an egregious act and not only should she be dismissed, she should be banned from medicine.
 
GoSpursGo said:
I mean, it's a tweet from the student in question. If they did not mean what they said literally, that is their own fault for posting something like that on the internet. I am a very strong proponent of understanding that people make stupid mistakes and should be given second chances... but this clearly puts the school in a very difficult situation.
Click to expand...
Not sure this would qualify under "stupid mistakes", to be honest. If she did intentionally do what she posted, no 2nd chances my friend.
 
FootballAndSkiing said:
"North Carolina med student shocked she has to interact with Republicans in her community; harms patient"

Weird how many of you are making excuses for her.
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You are 100% correct....and coming from some who I respect on here, shaking my head and even more so trying to blame the news organization, wow.
 
FootballAndSkiing said:
"North Carolina med student shocked she has to interact with Republicans in her community; harms patient"

Weird how many of you are making excuses for her.
Click to expand...

HAHAHAHA yeah if I was psychologically incapable of interacting with MAGAs I'd have lasted a week at best in my practice.
 
FootballAndSkiing said:
"North Carolina med student shocked she has to interact with Republicans in her community; harms patient"

Weird how many of you are making excuses for her.
Click to expand...
Browns99 said:
You are 100% correct....and coming from some who I respect on here, shaking my head and even more so trying to blame the news organization, wow.
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I don't think anyone was making excuses for this student. Independent to the student's case there was commentary on the terrible journalism. In response to the case it was quite unanimous - the only debate I see in this thread would be the next step (immediate expulsion, investigation, disciplinary action, etc).
 
Browns99 said:
TBH, Not sure what your negative posts about the media has to do with anything, but ok.
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They were responding to me, because I made an aside at the end of an earlier post about how the "journalism" in that article was cringey.
 
GoSpursGo said:
Who's making excuses? I think she's getting pretty universally condemned.
Click to expand...
Talking about her actual intent, if it actually happened as described, blaming reporting to cast doubt or imply bias. There are some "yeah, but..." posts.
 
CanIBeAnonymous said:
They were responding to me, because I made an aside at the end of an earlier post about how the "journalism" in that article was cringey.
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Cringy, please explain, again, I'm not taking the side of Fox or any other news outlet, just trying to understand whether you are looking at it from someone who has liberal views and despises a conservative media outlet, or someone who found the article poorly written, inaccuracies, etc.

Also, the poster said this "(which I agree was written to cast the student as a villain)", what other way should the student have been cast as, someone who made a small mistake?

The other poster said it was written to mislead, how, "I missed his vein so he had to get stuck twice"...Not sure anyone does not believe that it was delivered to at least make you believe it was intentional.
 
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Browns99 said:
Cringy, please explain, again, I'm not taking the side of Fox or any other news outlet, just trying to understand whether you are looking at it from someone who has liberal views and despises a conservative media outlet, or someone who found the article poorly written, inaccuracies, etc.
Click to expand...
As someone who was a journalist before medicine, it's poorly written yes with the inherent bias in the wording choice, what they focus on, how they present it. Hopefully this is clear to you too. And before a "Well CNN does the same" - yes they do. That's irrelevant, it's still bad journalism.

FootballAndSkiing said:
Talking about her actual intent, if it actually happened as described, blaming reporting to cast doubt or imply bias. There are some "yeah, but..." posts.
Click to expand...

Should any offense that can completely end the career of an individual not be completely scrutinized and examined? Pretty sure the only points were made "was the person lying?" "with the wording of the tweet was it intentional or not" - no one disputed that either way what they said was wrong, and that intent or not finding pleasure in it was also wrong. Either way this seems irrelevant since everyone in this thread has mentioned that this student should expect disciplinary action.
 
Browns99 said:
TBH, Not sure what your negative posts about the media has to do with anything, but ok.
Click to expand...
Not much? There was a tangential comment about the journalism, which I gave my tangential response to. I was pretty clear from the jump that I think it’s terrible on the part of the student, both for doing it and then for posting on social media.

TBH, I find it more damning that I think this is pretty bad journalism, and I still can’t find a way to defend her.
 
CanIBeAnonymous said:
As someone who was a journalist before medicine, it's poorly written yes with the inherent bias in the wording choice, what they focus on, how they present it. Hopefully this is clear to you too. And before a "Well CNN does the same" - yes they do. That's irrelevant, it's still bad journalism.



Should any offense that can completely end the career of an individual not be completely scrutinized and examined? Pretty sure the only points were made "was the person lying?" "with the wording of the tweet was it intentional or not" - no one disputed that either way what they said was wrong, and that intent or not finding pleasure in it was also wrong. Either way this seems irrelevant since everyone in this thread has mentioned that this student should expect disciplinary action.
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Nah, it's not clear to me Mr. Media and I'm not you to come back and say something about CNN or any other media outlet. I generally dislike all journalists today because they lost their souls, both sides....maybe you did too.

Your "hopefully this is clear to you" is rather condescending, but I get you, just from your posts.
 
Browns99 said:
Nah, it's not clear to me Mr. Media and I'm not you to come back and say something about CNN or any other media outlet. I generally dislike all journalist today because they lost their souls, both sides....maybe you did too.
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"Mr.Media"
"Because they lost their souls, both sides....maybe you did too."


alright so you're this type of person, not sure really much else can come from a back and forth between us
 
I mean Libs of Tik Tok twitter was the one who broke this. Fox News just wrote a quick story to spread it, make some money, and it fits their narrative.
 
This student should be dismissed immediately. In essence, she assaulted her patient, the very person that trusted her to “do no harm” which she violated.

As a PD, if she is a 4th year now, and was matched in my program, I would contact the NRMP and alert them of my intention to withdraw her contract. She does not belong anywhere near patients.
 
EDITED: see edit time if confusion

Couple points:

1.) Fox News perverts news to a far greater extent than left-wing outlets like CNN/MSNBC. You essentially bring political spin into this thread by drawing that false equivalence.

2.
Even in this article, the part they’ve quoted doesn’t actually align with that they’re stating (realized this on second read) which is a failure of basic journalism 101 on Fox New’s part.

They quote her and then say “A fourth-year medical student at Wake Forest University in North Carolina bragged on Twitter about purposely missing a vein while drawing blood because a patient asked about her pronoun pin”. That quote is not a valid conclusion based on the evidence they’ve provided (which everyone can read in the article). I’m not saying their conclusion is factually incorrect, but if they are making that claim (specifically the purposeful part) the onus to prove that is on them and the quote of her that they provide and context alone do not prove that.

I was pretty pissed because I thought this was one of those woke>everything idiots on the left and in my head am already calling for an immediate dismissal but from a second read, it’s actually impossible to tell from quotes and the context provided by Fox if 1) she accidentally missed the vein and is happy in retrospect 2) she purposefully missed as a form of retribution.

I think both are grounds for expulsion, but #2 is far more severe and is immediate expulsion and criminal charges.

In case anyone asks why #1 is grounds for expulsion, it is demonstrating OP lacks empathy for those not aligned with her political views which is similar (if not worse) grounds for removal of the resident for her anti-Semitic views as it carries/leaves reasonable doubt for her safety as a physician in the future.
 
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Redpancreas said:
Fox News perverts news to a far greater extent than left learning outlets.
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CanIBeAnonymous said:
As someone who was a journalist before medicine, it's poorly written yes with the inherent bias in the wording choice, what they focus on, how they present it. Hopefully this is clear to you too. And before a "Well CNN does the same" - yes they do. That's irrelevant, it's still bad journalism.
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But this person has a journalism background as says CNN does it too.
 
FootballAndSkiing said:
I assumed the 2023 in her @ was her grad year
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This article was written march 2021 and it describes her as a 3rd year. I believe based on everything that it is correct that she is a 4th year who just matched.

journalnow.com

Kychelle Del Rosario: The Senate must protect transgender health

With a narrow victory, the U.S. House of Representatives recently passed the Equality Act (HR 5), a resolution that ensures legal protections from discrimination in public spaces based on sexual
journalnow.com journalnow.com
 
NontradICUdoc said:
This student should be dismissed immediately. In essence, she assaulted her patient, the very person that trusted her to “do no harm” which she violated.

As a PD, if she is a 4th year now, and was matched in my program, I would contact the NRMP and alert them of my intention to withdraw her contract. She does not belong anywhere near patients.
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Is it possible for the NRMP to permanently ban her from ever matching?
 
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