LMAO...you must be fun at parties. Or is it maybe because some podiatrists think they are the gatekeepers and can tell other podiatrists what procedures they can and can't do in "their" hospitals? Maybe.
MSG/Hospital jobs
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LMAO...you must be fun at parties. Or is it maybe because some podiatrists think they are the gatekeepers and can tell other podiatrists what procedures they can and can't do in "their" hospitals? Maybe.
Lets be honest. Its well known statement in podaitry that "podiatrists eat their young". Thats a statement I've heard since I was a pre-pod.
A vast majority of the associate positions available are predatory and have a new associate every 12-24 months.
They are associate mills that have low pay and benefits. They just keep rehiring another desperate DPM straight out of residency year after year.
I'm sure its quite profitable.
It's not just podiatry. People here think it is. It's not. This issue is medicine wide. And it's just as bad in other specialties.
And it isn't profitable at all. Just more BS where doctors think they know business.
If an associate leaves within a year, you will not recoup your money. Not even close. If you want me to do the math for you, I can, but it isn't rocket science.
That's what's so baffling to me.
I think youre disconnected from reality
Its worse than other specialities. What MD/DO gets routinely offered 70-80K base with impossible to meet bonus structure and minimal to no benefits? That doesnt happen and if it does its extremely rare instead of the norm.
An associate who is on a bonus structure gets low hanging fruit. Nails. Post ops the other DPMs did. No real income generating patients so they dont meet their 3-4x salary requirement before bonus starts. They get paid 70-80k a year.
They free up space for the other DPM in the practice to be more busy and take more profitable cases.
You wont convince me otherwise because I have personal knowledge of this happening to some of my good friends. Its a very common thing.
Associate DPM positions largely are a scam that pay a DPM 75k and make the provider hiring the a lot of $$$. If that wasnt true then they wouldne be doing it.
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Working in major hospital systems, in various parts of the country, over 20 years has taught me that many other medical specialties eat their young.
Your experience may be different than mine, and it is still certainly valuable.
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Keep using that seniority and paving the way for your nail salon, I’m happy to send over the referrals so you can generate that massive rapport.
LOL...keep being the "gatekeeper" and feeding the stereotype of why young podiatrists hate the older generation.
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You are delusional. Seriously.
Majority of DPM associates can't even make a basic salary to pay their student loan debts. Getting a job out of residency where you have less than 6 figure salary and no medical benefits is disturbing and it is UNIQUE to podiatry.
No MD/DO (no matter what specialty) makes under 6 figures in private practice. NONE.
There are podiatrists with 7-8 years of education and training (depending on if they did a fellowship) who are making sub 6 figures.
Please stop posting that this is not reality for a lot of DPMs practicing right now. Because it is.
It's funny how I am "delusional" or "disconnected from reality" seeing as how I've been training residents for over 20 years, still keep in touch with many of them, and they are all over the country, at various types of jobs.
And have worked with major university hospitals for my whole career as well, so I'm familiar with the pay scale of other physicians in many different specialties.
I have different experiences than some. I don't resort to insults (mostly) when I disagree with people. You don't like what I have to say, or have different experiences? By all means, put them in writing and say you disagree with what I write. But saying I'm, "delusional" or "disconnected from reality" makes you look like a toddler having a tantrum. You are better than that. I hope.
Also, as I'm sure you've seen in other threads, when wrong, I freely admit it and appreciate the knowledge and feedback. Maybe frame your comments differently, and I'll learn from them. If you haven't learned this in life yet, insulting someone and then expecting them to get something out of it, is not only completely idiotic, but makes you look like a complete dingus. Sometimes, I don't mind looking like a complete dingus. And sometimes I don't care if who I'm replying to gets something out of it. Is that your intention?
And have worked with major university hospitals for my whole career as well, so I'm familiar with the pay scale of other physicians in many different specialties.
I have different experiences than some. I don't resort to insults (mostly) when I disagree with people. You don't like what I have to say, or have different experiences? By all means, put them in writing and say you disagree with what I write. But saying I'm, "delusional" or "disconnected from reality" makes you look like a toddler having a tantrum. You are better than that. I hope.
Also, as I'm sure you've seen in other threads, when wrong, I freely admit it and appreciate the knowledge and feedback. Maybe frame your comments differently, and I'll learn from them. If you haven't learned this in life yet, insulting someone and then expecting them to get something out of it, is not only completely idiotic, but makes you look like a complete dingus. Sometimes, I don't mind looking like a complete dingus. And sometimes I don't care if who I'm replying to gets something out of it. Is that your intention?
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No MD/DO in the USA completes residency or fellowship and makes less than 6 figures. This is unique to podiatry and is a major problem. The end.
I graduated with FP, IM, Gen Surg, Pharm, heme, and many more… None were paid less than 100k out of the blocks. All offers with full accoutrements. Getting less than 100k is a sham.
Edit: The more I think about it, I believe my cohort would have walked out of an interview if they were informed of substandard pay. It would be seen as a slight.
Edit: The more I think about it, I believe my cohort would have walked out of an interview if they were informed of substandard pay. It would be seen as a slight.
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So why don't people stop complaining and DO something about it? Start your own practice. See how much money you make your first year out. Go ahead. Stop bitching and make it happen for yourself if you aren't happy with how the market treats you. By all means.
You want to ride on someone else's coat tails? You shut up and take your licks. You want to do it on your own? Go ahead.
Amazing how there are so many who complain about this, and yet, there seems to be so many that accept it. Don't. Do better for yourself. And then when you've made your bucks, don't be a **** and do what others have done. But you won't. You'll just ***** about it incessantly on some internet forum because you can. And when it's your turn, you'll do the exact same thing as everyone before. And laugh your way to the bank. Won't you?
I'm curious, over and above salary/compensation, do you know what it costs to hire an associate up front? And since most people haven't a clue about when the right time actually IS to hire an associate, they are wholly unprepared for what it actually means to hire one. Where is this money supposed to come from? How good are you with numbers? Do you want to start another thread talking about it?
Btw, all those people who end up working for an Ortho group, Vascular Group or Hospital system beware. I'm hoping for you that you will have that gig for the remainder of your careers, HOWEVER statistics show that you won't. Then what? These groups won't hire someone out for 10 years. Why would they when they can hire someone young and out of residents for much less than they would have to pay you. What are you going to do then? Hope a private practice is going to hire you for what the Ortho group paid you? Yeah, okay, good luck with that. Now who is being "delusional"?
My experience is that other professions (MD/DO) treat hiring like finding a significant other. They are looking for a lifetime relationship and are willing to invest in the appropriate individual. There is significant costs and risks, but if the opportunity is worthwhile and a thorough hiring process was performed the relationship should be symbiotic. In the end if the opportunity/job is good and the appropriate candidate was selected everyone is a winner.
I am not saying the financials/risk of hiring an associate should be understated. What I would say is, if you are looking for a beneficial long term relationship with an associate screwing them with substandard pay is not a good way to start things out.
Maybe the msg/hospital setting out East if different. In my area hospitals want experience. They want someone that is tied to the area and will be a “ lifer”. They are willing to invest in a provider. The flippant nature that you allude to just does not exist in reality in my neck out the woods.
Thank you for your opinion. If you have an issue with my posts, please report them and let the Mods handle my behavior. Otherwise, I'll hang around, tyvm. Feel free to ignore me, or just not read my posts. Be well!
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As others have previously mentioned, delusional.
These groups would love to hire somebody that has 10 years of experience because they know that this individual is fast, efficient, and will make them more money.
Classic old mustache pod way of thinking. Reimbursement is wRVU based, so that individual with experience and speed will naturally generate more RVUs, personal income, and revenue for the practice.
As a side note, this profession will be so much better when these toxic dinosaurs finally retire.
I know many hires in various specialties in the MD/DO world that are treated like dirt. Get all the call. Get all the crap. Their bosses are constantly complaining about their work. I should find the article that said that at least half of new doctors leave their first jobs within five years. MD/DO wide. It's not just podiatry.
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How many podiatrists have you hired? Do you work with residents who look for jobs and tell you all the stories? And not just podiatry residents? Medicine is a business.
Groups don't want to hire someone out 10 years because they don't want to PAY. Someone out 10 years wants more money and benefits than a hire out of residency. I agree that someone out 10 years is a far better value than a newbie out of residency, but again, many practices just want to feed their bottom line. And there are plenty of new graduates who will fill that role. Every year.
There are just as many "toxic" young as "toxic" dinosaurs. We just need to get rid of the "toxic". And btw, how's that "gatekeeper" thing coming along? Talk about "toxic"...
I do not doubt your experience. There are people/groups that will “eat the young” in every facet of medicine. It just seems to be an overwhelming number within podiatry.
If an practice is not an “mill” it should be looking to limit turnover. Part of that is offering a fair and attractive practice opportunity with just compensation.
Here's one article. It's a little old. Do you think much has changed?
www.prnewswire.com
Study Shows First Job after Medical Residency Often Doesn't Last
/PRNewswire/ -- It is ironic that medical residents and fellows, while being experienced in the practice of medicine, are often inexperienced in navigating...
www.prnewswire.com
Others:
www.beckershospitalreview.com
investingdoc.com
www.smartmoneymd.com
www.duvasawko.com
How young physicians find their first job and why they leave: 5 study findings
Most young physicians are generally satisfied with their first job, but when they do decide to leave, compensation is the biggest reason, according to a study from CompHealth.
Higher Job Turnover In Medicine Than Expected
Most new doctors don't last more than several years at their first job. Job turnover can be as high as 70% within 5 years for certain specialties.
investingdoc.com
Five reasons why doctors leave their first job | Smart Money MD
One of the biggest fears that doctors have in taking our first jobs is that the opportunity might not work out. For many professions, moving to a new position is expected. The administration at one of the local hospitals has turnover every few months.
www.smartmoneymd.com
Top 5 Reasons Physicians Change Work Situations - DuvaSawko
Data entry clerk or physician? For many physicians who are job hopping, evidence shows data entry is an underlying reason they consider leaving their jobs. In fact, a study in the American Journal of Emergency Medicine found that ER doctors spend 43% of their time on data entry and only 28% with...
www.duvasawko.com
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Great example of classic boomer opportunistic pod mentality.
Who cares? Are you going to tell us about the dozens of associates that you've taken advantage of over your long and crusty career at your private practice nail salon?
Nobody cares.
"Industry experts estimate that about half of new physicians will leave their first job within one to three years."
It might be your first job, but is it the right fit? - Today's Physician
Industry experts estimate that about half of new physicians will leave their first jobs within one to three years.
todaysphysician.com
So you're talking out of your ass with no first hand experience dealing with any of this. Got it.
Classic, "because I said so" mentality. And you say I'M delusional??? LMAO...
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This is correct. They do get dumped on and get all the call and all the crap. But for 350k plus
If you look at the articles I just posted, you'll see that maybe they were promised that much, but also get 30% or more less in the end.
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Use the ignore function, please and watch your language. No need to comment on every post made, but if you do, stay on topic and within the SDN TOS.
Sorry youre so easily offended by me stating youre disconected from reality. We all call eachother out on here when we post something thats clearly wrong. I've been called out. You are currently being called out. Cant be so sensitive.
80-90k for a graduating doctor with 300k+ loans is not OK and is NOT what a graduating MD/DO will face with similar loans.
You claimed in another thread "Those guys making $300K a year (if they really do that) live in CA"
This statement says 100% your practive management skills can not be trusted. If you cant bring in 300k as an established DPM nearly anywhere in this country there is absolutely something wrong or you need to move to a place with more than 100 people in the county.
Where am I offended? I'm trying to stay professional. You aren't.
Passive aggressive much?
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Saw Cleveland clinic just posted a hospitalist podiatry gig for those interested 🤷🏻♂️
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Oh I bet they want that pod doing all the complicated ankle recon. Get it!
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If I wanted to live in the area and that job paid relatively well or what I would expect it to pay, I would be an inpatient podiatrist. You do a little rounding, you have a case or two (and probably not even every day), expectations of “success” are incredibly low, you don’t have to do any follow up…you’re living the dream.
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I saw the posting. It looked interesting but I don't think I would want to live in Cleveland.
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Sometimes I wonder how these new grad fellows feel when they don't land a job doing TARs/recon starting day 1....
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Doesn't make any sense honestly. They did a fellowship. Case closed sign 'em up
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If you want to do TAR/recon from day 1 then obviously you need to let your PP boss in advance so he can start saving those cases for you.
If you want to do TAR/recon from day 1 then obviously you need to let your PP boss in advance so he can start saving those cases for you.
Here's my take on this.
Unless you are in a larger group, good luck with that.
Most single practitioners or even two to three doctor practices realize the incredible financial hit those cases will have on a small practice.
When those smaller practices hire an associate, they are looking for someone who can take the patients they are turning away because of how busy they are. Especially the new patients, which is the lifeblood of any practice.
Now, if the practice has 10 doctors or more (and I'm just picking that number out of my ass), they likely have the coverage and are looking for a doctor to fill a void in the care they offer. If that happens to be that they are looking for someone to start cultivating that side of things, then, you're in. But, it will take awhile to get you there. They won't start cultivating that until you've actually been hired. So the backlog will be minimal.
Of course there are some here who will dispute this, which is fine, as this is my view. And subject to change with enough information.
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Text unfortunately sometimes doesn't carry emotion well. I was attempting to be comically ridiculous. If a practice doesn't regularly do recon no one is going to refer them recon. The patients will tell the primary that they punted me to ortho or whatever and the well will dry up if there ever was a well to begin with.
Apologies. I wasn't sure, and really suck at detecting that online. My bad.
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Oh god recon... that word would make me salivate back in residency but now it has became the new f word for me.
I would take a 28289 over 20692 on any given day, after using up the clinic's kerlix supply and renewing Percocet multiple times.
Case turnover beats everything. Quick cases with minimal implant and supply utilization will win you the heart of any OR charge.
In fact I bumped other specialties for my add-on cases just because of the pure volume I bring to the OR.
When I grow out a mustache then maybe I will hire a fellowship trained new grad to do these recons.
I would take a 28289 over 20692 on any given day, after using up the clinic's kerlix supply and renewing Percocet multiple times.
Case turnover beats everything. Quick cases with minimal implant and supply utilization will win you the heart of any OR charge.
In fact I bumped other specialties for my add-on cases just because of the pure volume I bring to the OR.
When I grow out a mustache then maybe I will hire a fellowship trained new grad to do these recons.
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I am a big advocate for local anesthesia. I'm not sure how many of you do your forefoot cases this way but I realized what a time sink IV/general anesthesia can be by the time they are all hooked up to monitors and strapped in then waking up/recovery. Also patients do not need all the pre-op work up so it takes work off your scheduler.
