Do they matter? Especially the ones in anesthesia? I just finished a sub-specialties elective and got a couple of good letters out of it, but in order to receive honors, we have to write a 6-8 page paper. I've procrastinated this like crazy and need to do it in the next day or so if I want honors. I've already received 5 interviews, but don't want to be perceived as lazy (although that is definitely the case these days) at my interviews. What would you guys do? Thanks in advance for any advice.
MSIV Grades
- Thread starter carrie198
- Start date
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2007
- Messages
- 46
- Reaction score
- 0
while i can't say for sure, everyone keeps on saying you shoudl aim for an A or honors in your anesthesia electives. however, since you're already getting interviews and it doesn't seem like any program will actually have your grade, you might be fine. i say not to worry about it unless you really thing getting honors would help you get more interviews.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2002
- Messages
- 1,027
- Reaction score
- 5
When I went on my interviews, my 4th year grades were not available and no one ever asked for them. Not to toot own horn but I had excellent 3rd year grades and board scores so maybe no one cared. so if you otherwise have a great application, I wouldn't bother. But if you're borderline, it could help I guess and some programs may ask.
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2004
- Messages
- 2,934
- Reaction score
- 983
A related question: how do you even GET good grades in an anesthesia elective? I've seen 4th years on their electives and they just pop in IVs, do intubations, and generally stand around (no pimping, no "running the case"). It seems like the grading would be very different from your other rotations, since what really is there to be graded on?
1) knowledge?
2) performance? (technical ability/attentiveness)
3) effort?
4) likeability?
Seems quite different from, say, an elective in medicine where you are an "acting intern" and carrying your own patients. I mean, it's not like on an AI/Sub-I in anesthesia, the resident just steps aside now is it?
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2003
- Messages
- 5,823
- Reaction score
- 182
My experience has been that it's basically enthusiasm (volunteering to do stuff and asking intelligent questions), but knowledge is also assessed. The rotation I did had a pretty tough test at the end. I know of another where you run your own cases on the last day with an attending.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2006
- Messages
- 13
- Reaction score
- 0
So, if your other 3rd/4th year rotations are solid but you dont honor your anesthesia elective is it a problem? Let's say you get a high pass, has anyone been asked about it on interviews? Does it really matter that much considering the fourth year grading is very arbitrary?
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2005
- Messages
- 2,704
- Reaction score
- 2,417
I don't think anyone really cares if you honored or "just" got a high pass. Grading is entirely subjective, and variable based on location. Some places hand out honors like candy, whilest others go with a more appropriate and conservative approach in evaluating their students. I have not been asked about clinical grades on any interview I have had so far (4 internship, 2 residency). I have only been asked about preclinical grades once. The greatest determinants are probably going to be your away rotations, and the strength of your letters. Good board scores will definitely help, but most everyone else will probably have those, as well, so showing your desired program just how much ass you kick is your best bet to really stand out.
I was all gun-ho, asked tons of question, read baby miller cover to cover and didn't honor in the M4 rotation. People I thought I clicked with didn't bother to evaluate me. It's all subjective (surprise!) in case you haven't learned from M3. No one asked about my M4 grade in interviews. I did ok. Save yourself the trouble, get the letters you want, and enjoy the rest of the year. On the other hand, BS your way through a paper (throw in a couple of pages describing the case, a superficial analysis of an peer-reviewed article another 2 pages) should be something you can wipe up by now.
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2004
- Messages
- 2,934
- Reaction score
- 983
I'm going to respond to my own question, having now done 2 anesthesia sub-I's, in the hope it will be helpful for others.
I was evaluated not so much on knowledge (almost no pimping from the attendings, a little from the residents) or even technical performance (success of IV's, a-lines, intubations). Rather it seemed like they were looking for
1) having read about the cases for the day and having critically thought through the decision-making process in formulating the anesthetic plan
2) being enthusiastic, on-time, and volunteering to do stuff (OR prep stuff, preop the next pt during slow cases)
3) staying out of the way if/when the case got hairy and being an easy person to talk to/get along with
If you know the basics in Baby Miller it felt like you were already ahead of the game since residents are mostly used to working with students who AREN'T going into anesthesia and are there on required rotations. Some senior residents will let you basically run the case if they're comfortable with you.
Compared to, say, a medicine Sub-I, the hours were about the same or a little less (50-60hrs/wk) but I always felt pretty beat at the end of the day.
- Joined
- May 25, 2005
- Messages
- 223
- Reaction score
- 0
Aint that the truth!
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2008
- Messages
- 357
- Reaction score
- 0
At my institution I was graded by someone who I didn't even work with since she is the course director. Apparently she bases the grade solely on a ridiculously hard exam which asks dosage of meds to be given to patients in various conditions (weren't told we would need to know those types of things as MSIVs) and a paper. I even went the extra mile and took overnight call when apparently no student has done so in the past, wrote a paper on the anesthetic management of complicated disease process (while my peers wrote about "propofol" or something like that). At the end of the day, i got what all my friends said they received at the end of the rotation. "HP". I have no idea how they grade but it seems that not a single person has gotten anything but an HP in the past
Arch Guillotti
Senior Member
Staff member
Administrator
Volunteer Staff
Lifetime Donor
20+ Year Member
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2001
- Messages
- 9,920
- Reaction score
- 7,358
I did not receive honors in either of the anesthesia rotations that I did as a student. I read Baby Miller and took overnight call, showed up early etc.
I matched at one of the programs. I see the dude now all the time that wrote my evaluation. I don't think he even remembers me rotating through there. A lot of places med studs are a dime a dozen.
I matched at one of the programs. I see the dude now all the time that wrote my evaluation. I don't think he even remembers me rotating through there. A lot of places med studs are a dime a dozen.
I started this thread last year when I was freaking out about applications. I didn't write the honors paper, didn't get honors in that rotation and got a ton of great interviews- not a single interviewer brought that grade up- and I matched @ my 1st choice program. For what it's worth, I now think 4th year grades don't matter. Enjoy yourself before the torture of internship starts.
