Sep 1, 2015
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Can students of MSTPs do all four years of med school including rotations before their Ph.D training? I mean completing four years of med school, then completing Ph.D research, and then doing residency and fellowship.
 

Electricity

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Aside from the standard 2-4*-2 model, I've heard of MSTPs allowing students to do one year of med school, then their PhD, then the remaining three years of med school (1-4-3). I've also heard of programs that offer a 3-4-1 strategy. There are also programs that have shortened preclinical years (e.g., Duke, which offers 1-4-2). There are also options to do your PhD during residency. However, I've never heard of the model you propose above. One downside risk from the perspective of the program might be that if students dropped out they'd have all four years paid for without investing any time into research. Then again, I'm not all that knowledgeable about the different designs (I'm just a fourth year doing what will probably be a standard 2-4-2), and such a program might exist -- I'd be curious to hear about it.

*: Maybe 5. Maybe 3. Maybe 6. Maybe even 2?
 
Oct 22, 2013
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Almost certainly not. I have classmates who opted to enter grad school after MS1, but that was a special case. I have also heard of a student who finished the entire PhD portion before starting MS1, but all of these cases have to do with the research being time-sensitive and requiring the students to begin thesis work immediately. There really isn't a reason to do all 4 years of med school first, so you won't be granted an exception for that.

And besides, when exactly will you apply for residencies? During your PhD? By that point all your clinical skills will be gone and you will have nobody to recommend you.
 

URHere

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As others have said, this is almost certainly not possible:

1) If 4-4 was an option, people could just take the free MD and run.
2) If you take a 4 year break from clinical medicine before intern year, your clinical skills will be rusty, your knowledge will be outdated, and programs will not want you. Many residency programs specifically state that they will not consider anyone who graduated with the MD more than 2-3 years ago, so if your program conferred the MD before you began your PhD, you would be SOL.
3) If your PhD goes anything like mine did, you would not have all of your publications out the september before you graduate. Your publications are what people generally care about - they are the only sign that you were a productive PhD student.

So...no.
 
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gutonc

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As others have said, this is almost certainly not possible:

1) If 4-4 was an option, people could just take the free MD and run.
2) If you take a 4 year break from clinical medicine before intern year, your clinical skills will be rusty, your knowledge will be outdated, and programs will not want you. Many residency programs specifically state that they will not consider anyone who graduated with the MD more than 2-3 years ago, so if your program conferred the MD before you began your PhD, you would be SOL.
3) If your PhD goes anything like mine did, you would not have all of your publications out the september before you graduate. Your publications are what people generally care about - they are the only sign that you were a productive PhD student.

So...no.
Actually, there's no need for points 2 or 3 here. Any 4+4 program would become 4+1+"later b****es, thanks for the free med school" and would last all of 1 year.
 
Dec 7, 2014
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I thought that you had to pay back your funding if you left an MD/PhD early? I.e., if you did the "later bitches" plan, you'd be on the hook for your med school tutuion and stipend?
 

URHere

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I thought that you had to pay back your funding if you left an MD/PhD early? I.e., if you did the "later bitches" plan, you'd be on the hook for your med school tutuion and stipend?
MSTP programs cannot make students pay back funding if they drop the PhD and the vast majority of non-MSTP programs do not require repayment. I'm sure some programs do, but I've never personally encountered them.
 

gutonc

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I thought that you had to pay back your funding if you left an MD/PhD early? I.e., if you did the "later bitches" plan, you'd be on the hook for your med school tutuion and stipend?
MSTP programs cannot make students pay back funding if they drop the PhD and the vast majority of non-MSTP programs do not require repayment. I'm sure some programs do, but I've never personally encountered them.
They all say that they do, but rarely push it.
 

Maebea

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They all say that they do, but rarely push it.
I am not sure where this is coming from. Who are the "they all"? In my decades of experience with MD-PhD programs, I am aware of only two programs that stated that individuals were required to pay back if they dropped the program. In the past year, I perused the student policies of 20+ MD-PhD programs, and none had payback policies. Please cite your sources.