MSU DO & MD....Is this true?

[Nasem]

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This I already know:
Some of the medical courses touch by MSU have a combination for both the MD and DO students.... ok fine, thats no problem

This totally surprised me:
The classes where there are a combination of both MD and DO students, have a passing rate of 70% for the DO students, and a 75% for the MD students !?!?

Has anyone heard anything about this? If this is true, I wonder why is that? Do they feel the DOs are not as capable as the MDs?

Can anyone who attends MSU verify this plz

 

[fisko82]

This totally surprised me:
The classes where there are a combination of both MD and DO students, have a passing rate of 70% for the DO students, and a 75% for the MD students !?!?

Has anyone heard anything about this? If this is true, I wonder why is that? Do they feel the DOs are not as capable as the MDs?

Can anyone who attends MSU verify this plz

I don't attend MSU, but know that this was true in recent years. I don't know if this has changed for this year, however. But I agree w/ you: I don't know why there is a different pass rate for students who are in the same classroom, being taught the same material, by the same teachers. It seems odd. That said, if you're flirting around the 75 percentile mark in the allopathic program, then odds are you aren't understanding the material very well.

 

[drchick331]

We were always told that the difference in percentages required to pass was because the COM students have an additional class (OMM) to take each semester.

 

[Nasem]

We were always told that the difference in percentages required to pass was because the COM students have an additional class (OMM) to take each semester.

ah, I see, I guess that explains it....

this is sort of off topic, but since I opened a thread and dont' feel like opening another one.... my friend who is attending wayne state MD says every one of his MS-1 semesters are about 3 months long but they only take 2 classes per time (very intense, but only 2 classes each term).... is this the case with MSU classes as well (MD / DO)

Reason I ask is...I would much rather perferer going to a school that offers 2 classes at a very intense rate per term VS. 4-5 classes at a slower / less intense rate

 

[bioteach]

At first I was turned off by that as well, but if you think how the DO's are taking all the same courses as MD's PLUS many many extra hours devoted to OMM, it makes sense. The DOs have a heavier courseload and less time to study.

 

[gasapple]

Where'd those numbers originate?

 

[Orthodoc40]

I do attend MSU, (MD) and can verify this.

For the classes we share (which is nearly all 1st year) COM requires a 70% to pass, otherwise they don't pass. CHM requires a 75% to pass, a 70% for a "conditional pass" and below, they don't pass.

Tests usually have 30 to 40 questions on them, which means this is a difference of like, 2 or 3 correct answers? 21 out of 30 vs. 23 out of 30??
Not a big deal.

Also the COM students here say that OMM takes up very very LITTLE of their time, and remember the CHM students are taking other classes, too. It isn't realistic to say that they have a 'heavier workload' according to the 1st year students I talk to, especially since they don't take anatomy in the fall, they take it over the summer, alone.

About number of courses, OP, look at the MSU CHM website (or if you interviewed, the handouts have it) for the courseload info. It is more than 2 classes a semester, that's for sure. It's something like 19 credits. Fall was Anatomy, Biochem, Physiology, Genetics, and all the Clinical Skills course requirements (several different parts). Spring has been Epidemiology, Physiology, Neuroscience, Micro/Immuno, Pathology and all the different Clinical Skills course requirements.

 

[VALSALVA]

At first I was turned off by that as well, but if you think how the DO's are taking all the same courses as MD's PLUS many many extra hours devoted to OMM, it makes sense. The DOs have a heavier courseload and less time to study.

Yeah, because OMM is soooo hard. Rotation, sidebending, flexion/extension. Oh, and don't forget Chapman's points. I actually had 4 Chapman's points questions on my step II. Those are the only four questions I remember on the entire exam because that's just so silly.

Actually, OMM lab is time consuming and maybe that's why the DO students get a bit more slack on the grades?

 

[Orthodoc40]

Yeah, because OMM is soooo hard. Rotation, sidebending, flexion/extension. Oh, and don't forget Chapman's points. I actually had 4 Chapman's points questions on my step II. Those are the only four questions I remember on the entire exam because that's just so silly.

Actually, OMM lab is time consuming and maybe that's why the DO students get a bit more slack on the grades?

I have had people in COM tell me "we get together and rub each other for a couple of hours" as a description of OMM class, so... uh.....WHAT???

Okay - don't shoot the messenger - that's what THEY told ME!!!

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Is there a happy ending?

 

[Jpc984]

Is there a happy ending?

haha

 

[MossPoh]

you usually have to pay extra for that

I thought it was included in tuition.

 

[travoltage]

I thought it was included in tuition.

they are hidden fees

 

[VALSALVA]

I have had people in COM tell me "we get together and rub each other for a couple of hours" as a description of OMM class, so... uh.....WHAT???

Okay - don't shoot the messenger - that's what THEY told ME!!!

It was the highlight of my day on many a morning, let me tell you. Unless I got stuck manipulating big Dennis or 6'6" 300 pound Paul. That sucked.

 

[Nasem]

About number of courses, OP, look at the MSU CHM website (or if you interviewed, the handouts have it) for the courseload info. It is more than 2 classes a semester, that's for sure. It's something like 19 credits. Fall was Anatomy, Biochem, Physiology, Genetics, and all the Clinical Skills course requirements (several different parts). Spring has been Epidemiology, Physiology, Neuroscience, Micro/Immuno, Pathology and all the different Clinical Skills course requirements.

I didn't find this info on the CHM website. so according to what your saying, thier curriculum is certainly much much different than Wayne state's (the 2 classes per term with each term lasting 2-3 months)

 

[Orthodoc40]

I didn't find this info on the CHM website. so according to what your saying, thier curriculum is certainly much much different than Wayne state's (the 2 classes per term with each term lasting 2-3 months)

You go to //humanmedicine.msu.edu
Click on Future Students
Click on Medical Education
Click on Curriculum

It's all there! I don't know the COM (DO) school's link.

 

[Orthodoc40]

It was the highlight of my day on many a morning, let me tell you. Unless I got stuck manipulating big Dennis or 6'6" 300 pound Paul. That sucked.

😱 Okay. Maybe I WON'T go to the free OMM student clinic tomorrow night.....!

 

[Buckeye4life]

ah, I see, I guess that explains it....

this is sort of off topic, but since I opened a thread and dont' feel like opening another one.... my friend who is attending wayne state MD says every one of his MS-1 semesters are about 3 months long but they only take 2 classes per time (very intense, but only 2 classes each term).... is this the case with MSU classes as well (MD / DO)

Reason I ask is...I would much rather perferer going to a school that offers 2 classes at a very intense rate per term VS. 4-5 classes at a slower / less intense rate

I am in the independent study program at LECOM-Erie. We focus on one class for 1-3 weeks at a time and take one exam for our grade. Occasionally there's a second class like health care management running concurrently and there's always OPP, but for the most part it's one subject at a time.

 

[Nasem]

You go to //humanmedicine.msu.edu
Click on Future Students
Click on Medical Education
Click on Curriculum

It's all there! I don't know the COM (DO) school's link.

Thanks man, I also found the one for DO students, here it is
http://ap.com.msu.edu/preclerkship/

its FREAKING crazy, just look at semester 2 (fall)....Im scared lol

 

[Nasem]

I am in the independent study program at LECOM-Erie. We focus on one class for 1-3 weeks at a time and take one exam for our grade. Occasionally there's a second class like health care management running concurrently and there's always OPP, but for the most part it's one subject at a time.

see thats what I actually like, 1-3 weeks of hell, but it comes and goes so fast and you never have to worry about it again

 

[Buckeye4life]

If you know you want primary care, you can do PCSP, which is like independent study, but you get done with school in 3 years instead of 4. Save yourself about $50K.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Thanks man, I also found the one for DO students, here it is
http://ap.com.msu.edu/preclerkship/

its FREAKING crazy, just look at semester 2 (fall)....Im scared lol

Yup, it's ugly. And if you're in the MD program, add Anatomy to the list for the fall, but that's med school, baby.
But notice that biochem and genetics are each only 8 weeks long. So for the first half of the semester, you're in biochem, and the second half is genetics.

 

[Nasem]

If you know you want primary care, you can do PCSP, which is like independent study, but you get done with school in 3 years instead of 4. Save yourself about $50K.

I know its a bit early for me to decide right now, but Internal Medicine is a big one for me, and this PCSP is starting to sound REAL nice, I am reading about it, here is the link for it if anyone is interested

http://www.lecom.edu/search.php

however, it does sound like a pretty intense program

 

[Jpc984]

I also think it is a small percentage of students.

 

[fisko82]

Thanks man, I also found the one for DO students, here it is
http://ap.com.msu.edu/preclerkship/

its FREAKING crazy, just look at semester 2 (fall)....Im scared lol

Just thought I'd add that if you're interested, this aamc website displays each school's curriculum, years 1 through 4.

 

[Nasem]

Just thought I'd add that if you're interested, this aamc website displays each school's curriculum, years 1 through 4.

very nice 👍

I wonder if something similar exists for DO schools

 

[Nuch]

The only reason why it seems that the DOs aren't as busy in the fall is because MSUCOM has gross anatomy in the SUMMER... all the MDs get a final summer off while we're in school, so that takes 6 credits out of the fall classes. My MD friends are talking about having hot tub parties and such everyday while my roommate and I will be going to class at 8am Mon-Fri and spending our nights studying. Sorry, I don't feel so bad for the MD students now...

Come spring of first year, DOs have just as many classes as MDs and then OMM. I'm not saying that OMM is hard and necessarily deserving of a 5% buffer, but it does take out time for studying.

In the end, does it really matter? They're different schools, different philosophies, and have different requirements. They're all pass/fail classes anyway (which the 70% mark falls in line with university standards for pass/fail classes)...