MSUCHM vs. OUWB

[centyrone]

Alright so after attending second look at OUWB I'm seriously in love with this school. However I just can't get over the fact that with financial aid MSU will be about 20k and with no financial aid from OUWB, tuition is sitting at 54k. One financial factor to consider is that I would live at home if I went to OUWB and the money that would've been spent on housing (from my parents) can go towards tuition. With this considered the difference sits at:

MSU: 20k + 6k for housing --> 26k
OUWB: 54k - 6k --> 48k

Still nearly double. I've read so many forums regarding cost vs. happiness vs. prestige and other factors. Maybe you all can give me some insight on these school specifically.

Will include some pros and cons as well:

OUWB:
(+) Affiliated with Beaumont
(+) Amazing student atmosphere
(+) Research included in curriculum
(?) ~20 minute drive to campus
(-) Expensive

MSU:
(+) If I stay in EL I wouldn't have to move
(+) Cheap
(?) New curriculum
(-) Possibility of getting shipped across the state for clinical years

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[libertyyne]

What are your career goals at this time?
80K is a lot of money but in the grand scheme of things it is not life changing for you. That being said if you are going to be happier closer to home and if you are looking to get into something super competitive OWUB might be worth the extra cost.

 

[deleted776505]

I am in a similar boat, trying to decide between these two schools. Unfortunately I received my acceptance to OUWB just after 2nd look day so I was unable to attend. So any info past and current students have would be much appreciated

 

[ishiningstar]

While money should not always be the deciding factor, I am not convinced that OWUB is so much better of a school in terms of ranking/prestige than MSU to pay that much more . I don't know much about these schools , but that's the question you need to address.

OWUB is a fairly new school right and I am thinking MSU is a more established school, correct me if I am wrong.

Also if you are going to be unhappy at MSU or dislike it, then that's a different story.

 

[kingslanding]

What are your career goals at this time?
80K is a lot of money but in the grand scheme of things it is not life changing for you. That being said if you are going to be happier closer to home and if you are looking to get into something super competitive OWUB might be worth the extra cost.

So you think OUWB would be a better choice for someone aiming for a super competitive specially... why do you think so? I'm also deciding between these two schools and having trouble deciding. @libertyyne

 

[libertyyne]

look at OUWB's match list and compare it to MSUCHM. MSUCHM is aimed towards producing primary care physicans. They dont have a bunch of residency programs as home programs with a handful being run by med partners gr.

http://www.beaumont.edu/medical-education/residencies/

• Anesthesiology Residency
• Diagnostic Radiology Residency
• Emergency Medicine Residency
• Family Medicine Residency (Grosse Pointe)
• Family Medicine Residency (Troy)
• Internal Medicine & Pediatrics (Combined) Residency
• Internal Medicine Residency
• Nuclear Medicine Residency
• Obstetrics & Gynecology Residency
• Ophthalmology Residency
• Orthopedic Surgery Residency
• Pathology Residency - Anatomic & Clinical
• Pediatric Residency Program
• Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation Residency
• Radiation Oncology Residency
• Surgery - General Residency
• Transitional Year Residency
• Urology Residency

VS

Home - Graduate Medical Education

• Internal Medicine
• General Surgery
• Pediatrics
• Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation
• Psychiatry
• Family Medicine

I believe the home program availability reflects the match lists of both schools.

 

[kingslanding]

look at OUWB's match list and compare it to MSUCHM. MSUCHM is aimed towards producing primary care physicans. They dont have a bunch of residency programs as home programs with a handful being run by med partners gr.

http://www.beaumont.edu/medical-education/residencies/

• Anesthesiology Residency
• Diagnostic Radiology Residency
• Emergency Medicine Residency
• Family Medicine Residency (Grosse Pointe)
• Family Medicine Residency (Troy)
• Internal Medicine & Pediatrics (Combined) Residency
• Internal Medicine Residency
• Nuclear Medicine Residency
• Obstetrics & Gynecology Residency
• Ophthalmology Residency
• Orthopedic Surgery Residency
• Pathology Residency - Anatomic & Clinical
• Pediatric Residency Program
• Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation Residency
• Radiation Oncology Residency
• Surgery - General Residency
• Transitional Year Residency
• Urology Residency

VS

Home - Graduate Medical Education

• Internal Medicine
• General Surgery
• Pediatrics
• Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation
• Psychiatry
• Family Medicine

I believe the home program availability reflects the match lists of both schools.

OUWB did have a really good match list for Class of 2017 (other two were pretty good too), which is important as I intend to specialize and want to keep all options open. As far as home programs go, that's really interesting and I see what you mean. Quality of rotations would be better if the hospital has a home program for that speciality. It's just so tough because OUWB is still considered a "new school" I think, which makes some PDs apprehensive from what I've gathered.

 

[libertyyne]

OUWB did have a really good match list for Class of 2017 (other two were pretty good too), which is important as I intend to specialize and want to keep all options open. As far as home programs go, that's really interesting and I see what you mean. Quality of rotations would be better if the hospital has a home program for that speciality. It's just so tough because OUWB is still considered a "new school" I think, which makes some PDs apprehensive from what I've gathered.

Home programs= more research opportunities, longer exposure to attending in the academic field who will write you letters and know PDs at other institutions. Better advice regarding how to prepare an app and what is needed to be successful. Its still a newish school but the home programs are more established and well known. It is really a no braining in my mind especially if you want optho, ortho, Uro, rad onc, or Nuclear med.

 

[libertyyne]

To be fair to MSUCHM, Grand rapids med partners has the following programs.

• CARDIOTHORACIC SURGERY
• CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE
• COLON & RECTAL SURGERY
• DIAGNOSTIC RADIOLOGY
• EMERGENCY MEDICINE
• GENERAL SURGERY
• INTERNAL MEDICINE
• INTERNAL MEDICINE / PEDIATRICS
• NEUROLOGICAL SURGERY
• NEUROLOGY
• OBGYN
• ORTHOPAEDIC SURGERY
• PEDIATRIC CRITICAL CARE MEDICINE
• PEDIATRIC HEMATOLOGY ONCOLOGY
• PEDIATRICS
• PLASTIC SURGERY
• SURGICAL CRITICAL CARE
• TRANSITIONAL YEAR
• VASCULAR SURGERY

VIEW PROGRAMS

• FAMILY MEDICINE
• GERIATRIC MEDICINE
• HOSPICE & PALLIATIVE MEDICINE
• INTERNAL MEDICINE
• NEUROLOGY

I dont think the neurosurgery program is set up yet, but that is a pretty good list and if you should be able to build relationships with those programs. However I am unsure if placement in GR vs EL makes a difference for that.

 

[migvsu]

My BF is an M2 at OUWB and loves it. I'm currently first-tier waitlisted. Beaumont is a seriously good hospital for third and fourth year rotations which helps your chances for a competitive residency. In general having an affiliated hospital is good for medical students because you can build relationships with physicians and researchers in the field.

 

[kingslanding]

To be fair to MSUCHM, Grand rapids med partners has the following programs.

• CARDIOTHORACIC SURGERY
• CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE
• COLON & RECTAL SURGERY
• DIAGNOSTIC RADIOLOGY
• EMERGENCY MEDICINE
• GENERAL SURGERY
• INTERNAL MEDICINE
• INTERNAL MEDICINE / PEDIATRICS
• NEUROLOGICAL SURGERY
• NEUROLOGY
• OBGYN
• ORTHOPAEDIC SURGERY
• PEDIATRIC CRITICAL CARE MEDICINE
• PEDIATRIC HEMATOLOGY ONCOLOGY
• PEDIATRICS
• PLASTIC SURGERY
• SURGICAL CRITICAL CARE
• TRANSITIONAL YEAR
• VASCULAR SURGERY

VIEW PROGRAMS

• FAMILY MEDICINE
• GERIATRIC MEDICINE
• HOSPICE & PALLIATIVE MEDICINE
• INTERNAL MEDICINE
• NEUROLOGY

I dont think the neurosurgery program is set up yet, but that is a pretty good list and if you should be able to build relationships with those programs. However I am unsure if placement in GR vs EL makes a difference for that.

Like you asked in the other thread, interesting to see if these are considered "home" rotations.


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[MDspartan]

Like you asked in the other thread, interesting to see if these are considered "home" rotations.


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My understanding is the GRMEP is a "communiversity" program. I know GRMEP has been around for about 15 years and was founded by Grand Rapids hospital networks Spectrum Health and Mercy Health. It is undergoing some changes now as Spectrum will begin sponsoring their own programs, which has some people in the West Michigan area upset. GRMEP is not like UofM where the residency programs at UM's hospital are controlled by UM and the UMMS. These programs are not controlled by MSU so they are not "home" programs in the traditional sense. If you look at the GRMEP website you won't see any particular school represented overwhelmingly, so it's hard to say if applicants from MSUCOM/MSUCHM are looked at more favorably. I would think that students from all the Michigan medical schools are at a slight advantage during the Match relative to schools outside Michigan simply because GRMEP is more familiar with their programs.

 

[libertyyne]

My understanding is the GRMEP is a "communiversity" program. I know GRMEP has been around for about 15 years and was founded by Grand Rapids hospital networks Spectrum Health and Mercy Health. It is undergoing some changes now as Spectrum will begin sponsoring their own programs, which has some people in the West Michigan area upset. GRMEP is not like UofM where the residency programs at UM's hospital are controlled by UM and the UMMS. These programs are not controlled by MSU so they are not "home" programs in the traditional sense. If you look at the GRMEP website you won't see any particular school represented overwhelmingly, so it's hard to say if applicants from MSUCOM/MSUCHM are looked at more favorably. I would think that students from all the Michigan medical schools are at a slight advantage during the Match relative to schools outside Michigan simply because GRMEP is more familiar with their programs.

Grand Rapids Medical Education Partners | GRMEP
The reason I think they give preference to msuchm students is because they say " affiliated with msuchm" the programs themselves are not extraordinarily competitive or prestigious considering they take IMGs.
So what you are saying there might be some.benefit but not the full benefit of having a home program. are you on the ground campus or the El campus? I wonder if the GR campus people feel differently.

 

[MDspartan]

Grand Rapids Medical Education Partners | GRMEP
The reason I think they give preference to msuchm students is because they say " affiliated with msuchm" the programs themselves are not extraordinarily competitive or prestigious considering they take IMGs.
So what you are saying there might be some.benefit but not the full benefit of having a home program. are you on the ground campus or the El campus? I wonder if the GR campus people feel differently.

That's my feeling. Having traditional residency programs operated directly by your medical school is definitely the way to go. Doubly so if considering a fellowship since fewer community-based programs offer strong fellowships like those seen at academic centers. I have two friends at UMMS who say there is a sense of community and they feel like the residency program directors will take UM graduates whenever possible. I don't know if the same can be said of any "communiversity" arrangement and certainly cannot be said for any strictly community-based programs.

I don't know why MSU students in GR would feel any differently than students in EL since both groups end up in a variety of clinical sites around Michigan for third and fourth year.

 

[libertyyne]

That's my feeling. Having traditional residency programs operated directly by your medical school is definitely the way to go. Doubly so if considering a fellowship since fewer community-based programs offer strong fellowships like those seen at academic centers. I have two friends at UMMS who say there is a sense of community and they feel like the residency program directors will take UM graduates whenever possible. I don't know if the same can be said of any "communiversity" arrangement and certainly cannot be said for any strictly community-based programs.

I don't know why MSU students in GR would feel any differently than students in EL since both groups end up in a variety of clinical sites around Michigan for third and fourth year.

I was thinking in terms of the students that stay in GR for rotations and start off in GR might be benefited by the long term relationship building opportunities with PD in the GRMEP, and have access to more clinical research etc. During interview day the dean stated that going to the UP might be the best option for people interested in surgery considering the hands on exposure of the school etc.

 

[MDspartan]

I was thinking in terms of the students that stay in GR for rotations and start off in GR might be benefited by the long term relationship building opportunities with PD in the GRMEP, and have access to more clinical research etc.

That's certainly possible. Do you know if the physicians that students rotate with during third and fourth year in Grand Rapids are involved with GRMEP in some capacity? I know there are several thousand physicians at Spectrum and I'm unaware if the ones working with medical students have any formal relationship with the school or residency programs or if they are just random doctors throughout the community. And I'm sure the situation with respect to research will improve in the next few years as researchers move into the new building, so that's something to consider.

During interview day the dean stated that going to the UP might be the best option for people interested in surgery considering the hands on exposure of the school etc.

Being in the UP would be very cool. I'm sure they have excellent hands-on experience with a large variety of pathologies.

 

[libertyyne]

That's certainly possible. Do you know if the physicians that students rotate with during third and fourth year in Grand Rapids are involved with GRMEP in some capacity? I know there are several thousand physicians at Spectrum and I'm unaware if the ones working with medical students have any formal relationship with the school or residency programs or if they are just random doctors throughout the community. And I'm sure the situation with respect to research will improve in the next few years as researchers move into the new building, so that's something to consider.


Being in the UP would be very cool. I'm sure they have excellent hands-on experience with a large variety of pathologies.

I am unsure if they rotate with the grmep physicians. I assumed if you wanted clinical research they would hook you up with grmep docs and the residents at those institutions are only grmep residents so you would have some exposure during that process. I agree with you that the beenfit is probably greater than not having a home program and less than having a home program. It's just difficult to figure that out not being an m3 in GR.

 

[MDspartan]

I am unsure if they rotate with the grmep physicians. I assumed if you wanted clinical research they would hook you up with grmep docs and the residents at those institutions are only grmep residents so you would have some exposure during that process. I agree with you that the beenfit is probably greater than not having a home program and less than having a home program. It's just difficult to figure that out not being an m3 in GR.

Agreed completely. It's hard to analyze and make sense of some of these new third and fourth year clinical arrangements, different residency programs, school curriculums, etc. I bet choosing a medical school was easier 20 years ago.

 

[prayer525]

MSUCHM