MSW or Psy D?

[h2oLillies]

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Hi All,
So I am a new member here and have learned a lot by reading all your comments. I am currently finishing my Master's Degree in psychology at Stony Brook University. My interests are in psychopathology and parent-child relationships; I wish to become a child and family clinician and teach in the future. Based on my interests and what I have heard/read from others, Psy Ds and MSWs seem to be the best route. I have a pretty solid research background since I've been an RA for 4yrs and a GA for 2 but through my Master's experience I learned that I am more clinically oriented (that was the main reason I did the MA beforehand was to decide my interests and to get more teaching experience as a GA)
I applied to a few Psy D. programs and several clinical social work programs. I was accepted into Florida Institute of Technology's Psy D. program as well as NYU and Columbia's social work programs. I wanted to ask you all about your opinions on NYU's MSW program and Florida Tech if you have any. I chose NYU from the rest of the MSWs because of their clinical focus, think this is a good fit?
I would also appreciate advice about pursuing a Psy D. versus a clinical MSW degree (LCSW with licensure) with my interests. What made you choose the MSW over other degrees such as the Psy D.? I know the biases and controversies behind each of these degrees but now that I have to choose between them, it is especially difficult.
Since you have graduated have you found any difficulty in finding jobs? Now that I have found my interests and have been accepted to these programs I am trying to weigh the pros and cons. It would be difficult for me to move so far away from home and attend Florida for the next 4-5yrs but I also don't want to face issues finding a job to get my supervision hours for the LCSW. Any suggestions/comments would be great!!! (sorry for the lengthy question 🙂 )

 

[psych00]

Sorry, I don't really know how to answer your question since I am going through the whole application process also, but I was just wondering...
if you have your MA in psychology then why are you looking into other graduate programs? I thought you could go the LPC and then LCPC route with a master's in psych and be a therapist?

 

[h2oLillies]

My MA is in general psychology (coursework were in all doctoral level classes since there is no official MA program in my school). Although I did administer psychoeducational testing in my lab, I have no other direct clinical experience nor did I take any clinical courses.

 

[pingouin]

I can't answer any of your PsyD questions, but I'll do my best on the SW ones.

I applied to a few Psy D. programs and several clinical social work programs. I was accepted into Florida Institute of Technology's Psy D. program as well as NYU and Columbia's social work programs. I wanted to ask you all about your opinions on NYU's MSW program and Florida Tech if you have any. I chose NYU from the rest of the MSWs because of their clinical focus, think this is a good fit?

Just be aware that NYU's clinical focus (by history, anyway) is very psychodynamic in its orientation. There was little opportunity to delve into other theoretical realms. (Even my short-term/crisis class was short-term psychodynamic.) If that's not your bag, it may not be the best fit. This may have changed as I graduated close to 10 years ago. Check their website.

I would also appreciate advice about pursuing a Psy D. versus a clinical MSW degree (LCSW with licensure) with my interests. What made you choose the MSW over other degrees such as the Psy D.? I know the biases and controversies behind each of these degrees but now that I have to choose between them, it is especially difficult.

MSW because I had a BSSW so 1) it was a natural next step (especially if I wanted to find a job where I could be financially solvent) and 2) it gave me Advanced Standing which cut my MSW debt in half. I wish I could say there was a deeper thought process on that, but there wasn't.

Since you have graduated have you found any difficulty in finding jobs? Now that I have found my interests and have been accepted to these programs I am trying to weigh the pros and cons. It would be difficult for me to move so far away from home and attend Florida for the next 4-5yrs but I also don't want to face issues finding a job to get my supervision hours for the LCSW. Any suggestions/comments would be great!!! (sorry for the lengthy question 🙂 )

I've never had a problem finding jobs, but I also moved from NYC shortly after graduation so I can't speak for the market there. Regarding supervision, again I can only speak to the MSW to LCSW path.. but as a previous supervisee and current licensure supervisor, I would suggest that if you get a MSW, find a place where you want to live for the two years after graduation and stay there. It is much easier to move your license between states than it is to transfer supervised hours pre-license. I know of horror stories where one state did not recognize another state's hours and a colleague had to start from scratch at 2000+ hours in. After you get your license, then move if you want to. Sometimes there are still problems (FL and CA spring to mind), but much less likely.

 

[h2oLillies]

Did not know about that licensure bit, thanks! From what I hear, MSW jobs are abundant, it's the salary that is lacking...that is one of my worries. I have read/heard that starting salary is about 30k??? How does someone live off/pay off loans with that starting salary? I hope I am mistaken, that salary is higher in major cities like nyc or at least that salary increases rapidly after some experience in the field. I also hope that finding a supervisor for your 2000hours isnt hard to come by because I would like to do that right after the MSW to work my way to the LCSW if this is the route I end up choosing.

 

[h2oLillies]

I can't answer any of your PsyD questions, but I'll do my best on the SW ones.



Just be aware that NYU's clinical focus (by history, anyway) is very psychodynamic in its orientation. There was little opportunity to delve into other theoretical realms. (Even my short-term/crisis class was short-term psychodynamic.) If that's not your bag, it may not be the best fit. This may have changed as I graduated close to 10 years ago. Check their website.

Would you say that of Columbia as well? I would like a wider scope of training (CBT, humanistic) instead of just on psychanalysis. Is there the ability to be trained in other orientations through the supervision hours?

 

[pingouin]

Did not know about that licensure bit, thanks! From what I hear, MSW jobs are abundant, it's the salary that is lacking...that is one of my worries. I have read/heard that starting salary is about 30k??? How does someone live off/pay off loans with that starting salary? I hope I am mistaken, that salary is higher in major cities like nyc or at least that salary increases rapidly after some experience in the field. I also hope that finding a supervisor for your 2000hours isnt hard to come by because I would like to do that right after the MSW to work my way to the LCSW if this is the route I end up choosing.

Actually, in most states it's 3000 hours supervised. I was just making the point that I know of people who lost a LOT of invested time and work by moving in the midst of supervision. (I would imagine intrastate would be fine, it's interstate that's the issue.)

I did apply for jobs in the NY/NJ area, and there was some compensation for cost of living compared to where I wound up going, but it wasn't a lot. That was in NJ, though, which at the time was rumored to not pay as well as NY. 30K (maybe a little more) is about right in the Midwest for a MSW/no appreciable experience so I would hope that it's higher on the East Coast. I worked a part-time 2nd job which I had done for years to supplement my income.. then found something part-time within my field.. I didn't defer my loans but some of my friends did. (I'm not sure that they NEEDED to, but they did it.)

My state's NASW chapter is now keeping a list of LCSWs who have taken a training course to become a certified licensure supervisor. Also, many times supervision is available through employment, and that is definitely something to ask about in a job interview.

Would you say that of Columbia as well? I would like a wider scope of training (CBT, humanistic) instead of just on psychanalysis. Is there the ability to be trained in other orientations through the supervision hours?

I can't speak for Columbia as (for some reason still unbeknownst to me) I didn't apply there. Even with all the psychodynamics, I was placed in a very CBT-oriented practicum (a happy accident), so I did get that exposure during training. Does 600 hours sound about right? I think it was 3 days/week with 2 days/week full-time classwork. Post-MSW training has also been largely CBT, although I have lately found more opportunities to incorporate the psychodynamic pieces which is kind of exciting.

 

[h2oLillies]

I did apply for jobs in the NY/NJ area, and there was some compensation for cost of living compared to where I wound up going, but it wasn't a lot. That was in NJ, though, which at the time was rumored to not pay as well as NY. 30K (maybe a little more) is about right in the Midwest for a MSW/no appreciable experience so I would hope that it's higher on the East Coast.

Also, many times supervision is available through employment, and that is definitely something to ask about in a job interview.

Even with all the psychodynamics, I was placed in a very CBT-oriented practicum (a happy accident), so I did get that exposure during training. Does 600 hours sound about right? I think it was 3 days/week with 2 days/week full-time classwork. Post-MSW training has also been largely CBT, although I have lately found more opportunities to incorporate the psychodynamic pieces which is kind of exciting.

You definitely got lucky with the CBT training, that is something I will definitely be looking out for if NYU is the school I end up choosing (honestly every other day depending on what I read/hear I switch decisions ughh!)

And another good point, to inquire about supervision for future employments, thanks! Yes, those hours sound about right (1200 total) and 2 days of coursework. Some people, one being my advisor, have told me that it makes the most sense to go for the MSW over the PsyD because of my main interests in therapy/private practice and teaching that I could very well do with a MSW....hmmm.

 

[kojo]

Hi All,
So I am a new member here and have learned a lot by reading all your comments. I am currently finishing my Master's Degree in psychology at Stony Brook University. My interests are in psychopathology and parent-child relationships; I wish to become a child and family clinician and teach in the future. Based on my interests and what I have heard/read from others, Psy Ds and MSWs seem to be the best route. I have a pretty solid research background since I've been an RA for 4yrs and a GA for 2 but through my Master's experience I learned that I am more clinically oriented (that was the main reason I did the MA beforehand was to decide my interests and to get more teaching experience as a GA)
I applied to a few Psy D. programs and several clinical social work programs. I was accepted into Florida Institute of Technology's Psy D. program as well as NYU and Columbia's social work programs. I wanted to ask you all about your opinions on NYU's MSW program and Florida Tech if you have any. I chose NYU from the rest of the MSWs because of their clinical focus, think this is a good fit?
I would also appreciate advice about pursuing a Psy D. versus a clinical MSW degree (LCSW with licensure) with my interests. What made you choose the MSW over other degrees such as the Psy D.? I know the biases and controversies behind each of these degrees but now that I have to choose between them, it is especially difficult.
Since you have graduated have you found any difficulty in finding jobs? Now that I have found my interests and have been accepted to these programs I am trying to weigh the pros and cons. It would be difficult for me to move so far away from home and attend Florida for the next 4-5yrs but I also don't want to face issues finding a job to get my supervision hours for the LCSW. Any suggestions/comments would be great!!! (sorry for the lengthy question 🙂 )

FIT is a good school. It is university based with funding available. Melbourne is a nice quiet town close to everything though. They have several top notch professors there as well. A few of them are or were editors of major psych journals and are passionate about their area. And yes they do require masters thesis and dissertation.

 

[jshanew]

I was faced with the similar situation. However, mine was counseling versus social work.
I received a BS in Psychology after doing an associates in Paralegal training. Loved the legal and psychology combination. Therefore I was headed, initially, toward the LCSW/JD program. After completing 30 hours of a 60 graduate program in Social Work stuides, my mind was made up. I found I was dry clinically. NOTHING in the 30 hours of the MSSW program prepared me or fed my hunger for clinical work. It was all about filing, writing (pen was your best friend), case managment, and more case management. I was so sick of paperwork. NOW granted, I studied during the early 90's when managed care entered the scene. I was frustrated. SO, I dropped out of the MSSW program and entered a graduate program in Mental Health Counseling. LOVED IT. Let me say it again, LOVED IT! I had found my niche. After graduation, I worked at a local community mental health center and completed my 2000 hours of supervision (this was before the almost universal 3000+ in some states hike in supervision hours). I completed supervison, took the exam, and began my life as a Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC--LPCC in some states).
I love the clinical counseling aspect versus pencil pushing duties. Case management experience was invaluable, in that, it taught me how to do it, and there's no getting around it in this field. However, leaving the MSSW program allowed me to gain the educational and clinical experience I was craving. I am glad I made the switch. Now, my employer has primarily MSSW interns, and I hear many of them complain about the same issues. The MSSW programs do not focus upon clinical treatmen, yet they are preferred by Medicare. Imagine that. Its not about counseling. Its about pushing paper and pencils, and untrained personnel attempting to provide counseling techniques.
My views differ from others til true, and I am okay with that. I just know some feel this way as well. Its a personal choice, but I suggest the counseling route (LPCC licensure), but get your training from two supervisors, one in a case managment setting, the other in a clincical counseling arena. Afterall, I surely didn't gain clinical experience in the classroom. That's what the 3000+ hours are for...learn all that you can. Enjoy your supervisor, or keep looking for what soothes YOU! Enjoy.

 

[IndianaOD]

In your initial post you mention teaching. If that is true I would think you would want a doctoral degree.

 

[Lyra33]

I'm kind of in a similar situation trying to make a decision. I was just admitted to Michigan's MSW program, but I also have been admitted to two PsyD programs, the Chicago School and Argosy-Chicago. I want to be able to do therapy and have a strong interest in working with children. I'm interested in being able to do assessments, but at the end of the day therapy is going to be my strongest concern. I've always been leaning strongly toward PsyD but MSW does have attractions with it's focus on social justice, and lately I have been extremely torn. Is one option better than the other?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

This was a bumped thread from 3 years ago, so most likely the OP moved on, but for the new people, the best thing to do is do a search in the psychology forums for "MSW" and "Psyd" a number of threads/posts will come up.

My 30 second explanation is that there are large differences in the focus, scope, and practice of a Social Worker and a Psychologist. I wouldn't say one path is better than the other, as that depends on what you are looking for.

 

[RobertoSanchez]

Can someone tell me what the 10 best hospitals/departments around the country are for MSW grads? It's an area I'm looking to pursue now in research phase. Thank you.