Multiple Race application

[MaxiVaxx]

So the way I look doesn’t score me any privilege points even though I’ll admit I’m socioculturally white-aligned. Both of my parents (one is european and the other is asian) come from different social and culturally backgrounds that are super privileged when taken individually. Because I do not look like them and I was not raised by them, I do not get to directly share their privilege.

It is hard for me to communicate that I do not actually lead a life consistent with the race/ethnicity predicted based on the information I have to provide as part of my application, other than the essay.

For the longest time I have wanted to outright lie on the race category of my applications to schools out of frustration, but I have stopped myself because I would feel worse indicating a race that I’m not. But I feel differently about not indicating one of my races. In the past, when I’ve put both white and asian as my race I’ve had a harder time and was less likely to be accepted. Is it okay if to just indicate white so I don’t have to compete against another cohort? A few (4) years ago they used to have a category labelled mixed race/other, where you didn’t have to indicate exact ancestry, for a different set of applications I wrote. Does anyone think they will ever bring this back for med school apps? It felt more inclusive for me because “mixed race” is effectively it’s own category in my case.

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[Goro]

So the way I look doesn’t score me any privilege points even though I’ll admit I’m socioculturally white-aligned. Both of my parents (one is european and the other is asian) come from different social and culturally backgrounds that are super privileged when taken individually. Because I do not look like them and I was not raised by them, I do not get to directly share their privilege.

It is hard for me to communicate that I do not actually lead a life consistent with the race/ethnicity predicted based on the information I have to provide as part of my application, other than the essay.

For the longest time I have wanted to outright lie on the race category of my applications to schools out of frustration, but I have stopped myself because I would feel worse indicating a race that I’m not. But I feel differently about not indicating one of my races. In the past, when I’ve put both white and asian as my race I’ve had a harder time and was less likely to be accepted. Is it okay if to just indicate white so I don’t have to compete against another cohort? A few (4) years ago they used to have a category labelled mixed race/other, where you didn’t have to indicate exact ancestry, for a different set of applications I wrote. Does anyone think they will ever bring this back for med school apps? It felt more inclusive for me because “mixed race” is effectively it’s own category in my case.

There's no obligation to check off the ethnicity boxes, or just put down mixed race.

You're not going to get dinged by checking Asian, BTW.

 

[DNAJB6]

There's no obligation to check off the ethnicity boxes, or just put down mixed race.

You're not going to get dinged by checking Asian, BTW.

Not saying I disagree with you (and this isn't medical school), but:

Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits, Suit Says (Published 2018)

Personal ratings brought down Asian-American applicants’ chances of being admitted, according to an analysis filed by a group suing the school for bias.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Goro]

Not saying I disagree with you (and this isn't medical school), but:

Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits, Suit Says (Published 2018)

Personal ratings brought down Asian-American applicants’ chances of being admitted, according to an analysis filed by a group suing the school for bias.

www.nytimes.com

That's at the UG level, right? Apples and oranges. Keep in mind that the typical med school class is ~30% Asian (even 10% at the HBCs!) and my own school it's 40-50%. This where Asian-Americans are ~5.6% of the US population, mind you.

And that's where I end discussion, lest this thread explode into a dumpster fire.

 

[DNAJB6]

That's at the UG level, right? Apples and oranges. Keep in mind that the typical med school class is ~30% Asian (even 10% at the HBCs!) and my own school it's 40-50%. This where Asian-Americans are ~5.6% of the US population, mind you.

Yes undergraduate.

And that's where I end discussion, lest this thread explode into a dumpster fire.

Agreed. That wasn't my intent.

 

[MaxiVaxx]

That's at the UG level, right? Apples and oranges. Keep in mind that the typical med school class is ~30% Asian (even 10% at the HBCs!) and my own school it's 40-50%. This where Asian-Americans are ~5.6% of the US population, mind you.

And that's where I end discussion, lest this thread explode into a dumpster fire.

How many people of Asian descent were applying though? Oftentimes we are still held to a higher standard and are still overrepresented in such programs.

 

[LizzyM]

You can "choose not to respond". No one will judge you one way or the other for doing so. Aside from efforts to attract URM students, the race/ethnicity of ORM doesn't much matter.

 

[KnightDoc]

You can "choose not to respond". No one will judge you one way or the other for doing so. Aside from efforts to attract URM students, the race/ethnicity of ORM doesn't much matter.

If this is true, what explains the fact that admitted ORMs nationally have higher median MCATs than every other group. If they weren't in a different bucket, wouldn't it stand to reason that across such a large data set, across so many years, their numbers would be the same as all other groups that don't receive a boost?

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

If this is true, what explains the fact that admitted ORMs nationally have higher median MCATs than every other group. If they weren't in a different bucket, wouldn't it stand to reason that across such a large data set, across so many years, their numbers would be the same as all other groups that don't receive a boost?

Especially look at the 2 top Asian ORM groups (by number of applicants).

 

[LizzyM]

If this is true, what explains the fact that admitted ORMs nationally have higher median MCATs than every other group. If they weren't in a different bucket, wouldn't it stand to reason that across such a large data set, across so many years, their numbers would be the same as all other groups that don't receive a boost?

What I'm saying is that adcoms don't much care if you mark Asian, White, Asian and White, or "choose not to respond". Those buckets have many applicants with high numbers so it stands to reason that those who are admitted are high achieving.

 

[Hiphopscorpio31]

If this is true, what explains the fact that admitted ORMs nationally have higher median MCATs than every other group. If they weren't in a different bucket, wouldn't it stand to reason that across such a large data set, across so many years, their numbers would be the same as all other groups that don't receive a boost?

The statistics of ORM vs other groups wouldn't be the same because the sample sizes of any ORM group vs any URM group is incomparable. Since there are much less URM applicants in general, the median is much more likely to be skewed by lower scores.

 

[KnightDoc]

The statistics of ORM vs other groups wouldn't be the same because the sample sizes of any ORM group vs any URM group is incomparable. Since there are much less URM applicants in general, the median is much more likely to be skewed by lower scores.

Of course. My point is simple math, as is yours. You're explaining why URMs have lower medians (although they don't have to have lower medians, and wouldn't if the cutoffs weren't made lower as a means to bring more URMs into the tent). Small sample size is NOT why URM stats are lower than other groups!!

On the other hand, if ORMs didn't have their own bucket, their medians wouldn't be higher than any other non-URM group, since the numbers would converge (i.e., if ORMs have higher numbers across the board, all things being equal, they would be even more "OR" since the median for them and white applicants would be the same!).

 

[Hiphopscorpio31]

Of course. My point is simple math, as is yours. You're explaining why URMs have lower medians (although they don't have to have lower medians, and wouldn't if the cutoffs weren't made lower as a means to bring more URMs into the tent). Small sample size is NOT why URM stats are lower than other groups!!

On the other hand, if ORMs didn't have their own bucket, their medians wouldn't be higher than any other non-URM group, since the numbers would converge (i.e., if ORMs have higher numbers across the board, all things being equal, they would be even more "OR" since the median for them and white applicants would be the same!).

Wait I'm not following lol. aren't white applicants considered ORM? are you comparing two ORM groups separately?

 

[KnightDoc]

Wait I'm not following lol. aren't white applicants considered ORM? are you comparing two ORM groups separately?

Nope. White is white. It has never been considered to be "over represented." ORM is normally understood to mean Asian. AAMC breaks out stats by race. Asian (ORM) is always higher than all other groups, including white, on the MCAT.