MUSC Charging DO Students $3,000 per Rotation

[Jared999]

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Medical University of South Carolina (MUSC) is charging DO students $3,035 for each away rotation at the school, while MD students are only charged $150. More DO discrimination and another reason why I shouldn't have gone to DO school.

 

[illegallysmooth]

Medical University of South Carolina (MUSC) is charging DO students $3,035 for each away rotation at the school, while MD students are only charged $150. More DO discrimination and another reason why I shouldn't have gone to DO school.

That's your attitude? Good luck at life. Although I usually consider myself in competition only with myself, there's one exception. When I look up a residency and see they've never accepted a DO graduate, my goal becomes this:
1) to be better than the vast majority of their MD applicants
2) to apply to those residencies even if I don't want them, so they can see that some DO applicants are more qualified than some MD applicants
3) to help them eventually realize they are stupid if they continue picking only MDs, even if some are less qualified than some DOs, because it will only hurt the strength of their program.

I know DO discrimination blows. Do you even want to work with people like that, though? Just go be awesome. If other people would rather work with less awesome people just because they're MDs, well screw em.'

 

[OveractiveBrain]

...and another reason why I shouldn't have gone to DO school.

Yeah... should have gotten into medical school, instead

 

[Dissected]

:
2) to apply to those residencies even if I don't want them

Good plan...either you will:
A) not attend the interview and completely defeat your purpose
B) waste time and $$$ flying out there with no intention of ranking them
C) not get an interview b/c they will see right through you

Good plan though.

3) to help them eventually realize they are stupid to continue picking lesser qualified MDs than super awesome DOs like me because it will only hurt the strength of their program.

Check yourself man. Nobody likes the douchy cocky guy who is holier than thou.

I agree we've just got to work harder and show what we're made of, but forget trashing everyone else without a DO behind their name. That does nothing for you, and it makes the rest of us look bad.

 

[illegallysmooth]

Good plan...either you will:
A) not attend the interview and completely defeat your purpose
B) waste time and $$$ flying out there with no intention of ranking them
C) not get an interview b/c they will see right through you

Good plan though.



Check yourself man. Nobody likes the douchy cocky guy who is holier than thou.

I agree we've just got to work harder and show what we're made of, but forget trashing everyone else without a DO behind their name. That does nothing for you, and it makes the rest of us look bad.

Not cocky, and not a guy. When I see an obstacle I set out to overcome it, I don't wallow in self-pity. I'm not trashing anyone, let alone "everyone else without a DO." You've misunderstood. I'm saying some residency programs pick some MDs who are less qualified than some DO applicants simply because they have MDs. I'm not saying ALL MD applicants are less qualified, LOL. And no, not attending the interview would not defeat the purpose. I want them to see my qualifications and see the letters after my name. I will not shy away from applying to residencies with records of DO discrimination.

I've edited my earlier post to make my point a little clearer, because I can see how it can be taken incorrectly. I should have been more careful with my wording, especially on SDN.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Medical University of South Carolina (MUSC) is charging DO students $3,035 for each away rotation at the school, while MD students are only charged $150. More DO discrimination and another reason why I shouldn't have gone to DO school.

My guess is that MUSC students will often rotate at MD school sites (so call it an even exchange), but how often do MD students rotate at DO sites?

 

[Jorts]

My only issue is all the people I know that went to DO school did so b/c 1) they didn't get into an MD program and thus this was their back-up or 2) they self-selected themselves and only applied to DO b/c they knew they would get rejected from MD schools. I haven't come across 1 person who could have/did get into an MD program and instead decided to go to a DO school. You just don't see applicants who have a stellar application and numbers apply to DO and shun MD schools. The education at both programs is similar but the caliber of students is not. Note however, that these are generalizations and obviously it doesn't apply to everyone and that knowledge doesn't necessarily mean a person will be a good clinician although it certainly helps.

 

[DrBowtie]

Not cocky, and not a guy. When I see an obstacle I set out to overcome it, I don't wallow in self-pity. I'm not trashing anyone, let alone "everyone else without a DO." You've misunderstood. I'm saying some residency programs pick some MDs who are less qualified than some DO applicants simply because they have MDs. I'm not saying ALL MD applicants are less qualified, LOL. And no, not attending the interview would not defeat the purpose. I want them to see my qualifications and see the letters after my name. I will not shy away from applying to residencies with records of DO discrimination.

I've edited my earlier post to make my point a little clearer, because I can see how it can be taken incorrectly. I should have been more careful with my wording, especially on SDN.

Odds are that if they are truly discriminatory, they just set their ERAS filter to US MD students only. Your app wouldn't even hit their desk.

 

[Mass Effect]

My only issue is all the people I know that went to DO school did so b/c 1) they didn't get into an MD program and thus this was their back-up or 2) they self-selected themselves and only applied to DO b/c they knew they would get rejected from MD schools. I haven't come across 1 person who could have/did get into an MD program and instead decided to go to a DO school. You just don't see applicants who have a stellar application and numbers apply to DO and shun MD schools. The education at both programs is similar but the caliber of students is not. Note however, that these are generalizations and obviously it doesn't apply to everyone and that knowledge doesn't necessarily mean a person will be a good clinician although it certainly helps.

You're judging the caliber of student by which school they got into? Doesn't seem like a fair comparison to me. For instance, it could be true that someone went to DO school because he/she was rejected from the MD schools *they applied to.* That's the caveat. If someone has a spouse and kids in a specific state and needs to stay in that state for whatever reason, he/she may have been rejected by the state's MD school, but accepted by the state's DO school. So, he/she takes it. That doesn't mean that he/she is a lower caliber student than MD students in general. It doesn't even mean that he/she is a lower caliber student than the students at that particular MD school. It just means that, for whatever reason, he/she didn't get into that MD school. If you want to judge caliber of student, look at med school performance and board scores, not whether they went to MD school or DO school.

 

[sylvanthus]

Not cocky, and not a guy. When I see an obstacle I set out to overcome it, I don't wallow in self-pity. I'm not trashing anyone, let alone "everyone else without a DO." You've misunderstood. I'm saying some residency programs pick some MDs who are less qualified than some DO applicants simply because they have MDs. I'm not saying ALL MD applicants are less qualified, LOL. And no, not attending the interview would not defeat the purpose. I want them to see my qualifications and see the letters after my name. I will not shy away from applying to residencies with records of DO discrimination.

I've edited my earlier post to make my point a little clearer, because I can see how it can be taken incorrectly. I should have been more careful with my wording, especially on SDN.

The truly funny thing is, this dude/dudette hasn't even gotten his step 1 score back yet and is yammering on about how awesomely qualified he/she is.

 

[thecgrblue]

That's your attitude? Good luck at life. Although I usually consider myself in competition only with myself, there's one exception. When I look up a residency and see they've never accepted a DO graduate, my goal becomes this:
1) to be better than the vast majority of their MD applicants
2) to apply to those residencies even if I don't want them, so they can see that some DO applicants are more qualified than some MD applicants
3) to help them eventually realize they are stupid if they continue picking only MDs, even if some are less qualified than some DOs, because it will only hurt the strength of their program.

I know DO discrimination blows. Do you even want to work with people like that, though? Just go be awesome. If other people would rather work with less awesome people just because they're MDs, well screw em.'

Like a boss...like a true boss. 👍

 

[illegallysmooth]

The truly funny thing is, this dude/dudette hasn't even gotten his step 1 score back yet and is yammering on about how awesomely qualified he/she is.

I can only think I'm awesome after getting Step 1 back? I see nothing wrong with thinking you're awesome. Do you think you're not awesome? I bet you are awesome. Own your awesomeness.

 

[illegallysmooth]

My only issue is all the people I know that went to DO school did so b/c 1) they didn't get into an MD program and thus this was their back-up or 2) they self-selected themselves and only applied to DO b/c they knew they would get rejected from MD schools. I haven't come across 1 person who could have/did get into an MD program and instead decided to go to a DO school. You just don't see applicants who have a stellar application and numbers apply to DO and shun MD schools. The education at both programs is similar but the caliber of students is not. Note however, that these are generalizations and obviously it doesn't apply to everyone and that knowledge doesn't necessarily mean a person will be a good clinician although it certainly helps.

The problem here is that you're equating undegrad performance with performance in medical school. Given the choice, would you rather have a Dr. that did well in undergrad and excelled at a DO school and at residency, or someone that excelled in undergrad but just passed their med school classes and boards?

Of course I'm not saying this is the rule, lol. I'm just pointing out that undergrad performance does not equal med school performance or residency performance. Medical students should be judged for their performance in med school, whether DO or MD. If you're a program director or DME, should undergrad grades (and therefore medical school, and therefore MD or DO) be your priority? Or should it be medical school grades and board scores, as well as other qualifications demonstrated during medical school?

 

[primadonna22274]

Yup, and actually it was 6k a year ago when I checked, so a measly 3k is an improvement?!!?

Old Southern snobbery IMO. I will take what I can get in PA and elsewhere and come home to SC for residency.

 

[JackShephard MD]

I agree we've just got to work harder and show what we're made of, but forget trashing everyone else without a DO behind their name. That does nothing for you, and it makes the rest of us look bad.

👍

3) to help them eventually realize they are stupid if they continue picking only MDs, even if some are less qualified than some DOs, because it will only hurt the strength of their program.

I know DO discrimination blows. Do you even want to work with people like that, though? Just go be awesome. If other people would rather work with less awesome people just because they're MDs, well screw em.'

I don't understand why you need to call a PD stupid. Think about this, you have 500 people applying for a handful of spots and can only interview 50. Well, there are lots of MDs and DOs not getting those interviews. It is discrimination, but even MDs are discriminated against. Top 10 school grads carry prestige and will be selected above other schools. When there are limited spots, cuts need to be made.

The problem here is that you're equating undegrad performance with performance in medical school. Given the choice, would you rather have a Dr. that did well in undergrad and excelled at a DO school and at residency, or someone that excelled in undergrad but just passed their med school classes and boards?

Of course I'm not saying this is the rule, lol. I'm just pointing out that undergrad performance does not equal med school performance or residency performance. Medical students should be judged for their performance in med school, whether DO or MD. If you're a program director or DME, should undergrad grades (and therefore medical school, and therefore MD or DO) be your priority? Or should it be medical school grades and board scores, as well as other qualifications demonstrated during medical school?

Again, a Harvard grad will fare better than an AOA student at a middle tier medical school. This also looks at performance before medical school and it's a significant factor in selection of residents.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

[illegallysmooth]

👍


I don't understand why you need to call a PD stupid. Think about this, you have 500 people applying for a handful of spots and can only interview 50. Well, there are lots of MDs and DOs not getting those interviews. It is discrimination, but even MDs are discriminated against. Top 10 school grads carry prestige and will be selected above other schools. When there are limited spots, cuts need to be made.




Again, a Harvard grad will fare better than an AOA student at a middle tier medical school. This also looks at performance before medical school and it's a significant factor in selection of residents.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

First of all, I said a hypothetical PD would be stupid if they engaged in what is, IMO, a stupid practice. Secondly, my point was about turning away hypothetical DO students with better performance in medical school in favor of hypothetical MD students with worse performance in medical school. You don't need to explain the basic principles of competition for limited spots. Obviously some MDs will be turned down for all allopathic residencies. I am specificially talking about turning people away for the sole reason of being a DO. I think that's stupid. Yes, there must be discrimination, meaning that PDs should have discriminating tastes when it comes to ranking potential residents. I believe they should discriminate on the basis of medical school grades, board scores and relevant ECs - that's not stupid. If you want to select the most qualified people for your residency, however, I don't think discriminating on the basis of degree is a smart idea.

 

[username456789]

First of all, I said a hypothetical PD would be stupid if they engaged in what is, IMO, a stupid practice. Secondly, my point was about turning away hypothetical DO students with better performance in medical school in favor of hypothetical MD students with worse performance in medical school. You don't need to explain the basic principles of competition for limited spots. Obviously some MDs will be turned down for all allopathic residencies. I am specificially talking about turning people away for the sole reason of being a DO. I think that's stupid. Yes, there must be discrimination, meaning that PDs should have discriminating tastes when it comes to ranking potential residents. I believe they should discriminate on the basis of medical school grades, board scores and relevant ECs - that's not stupid. If you want to select the most qualified people for your residency, however, I don't think discriminating on the basis of degree is a smart idea.

For the absolute most competitive residencies, they can easily "toss out" any and all DO applicants and still end up with more than enough top tier students. Hell, they can easily afford to randomly toss out the majority of MD applicants and still end up with some amazing students. I'm sure derm programs could screen by eye color or by favorite football team and still end up with the same caliber residents year in and year out. But I realize I'm talking about extremes here.

For most middle of the road specialties (in terms of competitiveness) such as anesthesiology or emergency medicine, this concept still holds a lot of water. Sure, it may seem cruel to select a "no DOs" filter or whatever, but for all but the least desirable programs in these specialties, they are still going to likely end up with some fantastic medical students who match at their program. I very much doubt they're regularly turning away 260+/all clinical honors-type DO students so they can gobble up all the 190/P=MD types of allopathic grads. For programs who find that they either do not consistently fill, or have a record of filling with grads they are not entirely pleased with, then it makes perfect sense to strongly consider DO students just as much. Which, as far as I can tell, is what is already happening.

There are lots of extremes/outliers like what you have outlined previously, and like what I mentioned in the beginning of this post. But for the vast vast majority in the middle, I really don't think the programs are losing very much.

 

[HooliganSnail]

My only issue is all the people I know that went to DO school did so b/c 1) they didn't get into an MD program and thus this was their back-up or 2) they self-selected themselves and only applied to DO b/c they knew they would get rejected from MD schools. I haven't come across 1 person who could have/did get into an MD program and instead decided to go to a DO school. You just don't see applicants who have a stellar application and numbers apply to DO and shun MD schools. The education at both programs is similar but the caliber of students is not. Note however, that these are generalizations and obviously it doesn't apply to everyone and that knowledge doesn't necessarily mean a person will be a good clinician although it certainly helps.

Now you have, selected at both in state MD and choose DO. I was wait listed the first year and accepted the second not because my academics weren't up to par, but because my extracurricular activities were weak. Hell i got a 30 on the MCAT, and 40% of my school had a 30 or above. Everybody is smart enough to be there and practice medicine

Honestly, when you get into the hospital no one knows or cares if your a DO or an MD, whether you went to Harvard or the Caribbean. You are a doctor. Good doctors are good doctors, and bad ones are bad ones. Here's the kicker, being a "good" doctor usually depends on other qualities than how smart you are. Are you personable? Do you get along with the nursing staff? Are you compassionate, and generally concerned about the well being of you patients? These are the factors that matter most.

So if you have an "issue" then you're being short sighted, get over it!

 

[HooliganSnail]

First of all, I said a hypothetical PD would be stupid if they engaged in what is, IMO, a stupid practice. Secondly, my point was about turning away hypothetical DO students with better performance in medical school in favor of hypothetical MD students with worse performance in medical school. You don't need to explain the basic principles of competition for limited spots. Obviously some MDs will be turned down for all allopathic residencies. I am specificially talking about turning people away for the sole reason of being a DO. I think that's stupid. Yes, there must be discrimination, meaning that PDs should have discriminating tastes when it comes to ranking potential residents. I believe they should discriminate on the basis of medical school grades, board scores and relevant ECs - that's not stupid. If you want to select the most qualified people for your residency, however, I don't think discriminating on the basis of degree is a smart idea.

Harvard!!!! HA! I'll go toe to toe with a Harvard grad any day. The best part is that I don't compete with any ivy league medical schools or elitist medical students for DO residency. If I were on the MD tract i probably wouldn't score as high on the USMLE, but i'm still 77 percentile on the COMLEX, and ten years from now I'll be a surgeon, where that might not have been possible otherwise.

It really does not matter where you go to school or what your test scores are, it's about being allowed to learn. Some are, others are not. The country is short 20,000 doctors and the establishment still won't allow many qualified people to train to be a doctor.

I think your right on, keep rocking your awesomeness.

 

[shiftingmirage]

I am specificially talking about turning people away for the sole reason of being a DO. I think that's stupid.

MDs are not permitted to apply to DO residencies.

 

[primadonna22274]

True, and many of us think that's ridiculous.

MDs are not permitted to apply to DO residencies.

 

[HooliganSnail]

True, and many of us think that's ridiculous.

It's not. DO's learn everything that MD's learn in medical school, but then we learn a lot more. In reality, MD's lack the qualification and the education to enter a DO residency.

 

[mmmcdowe]

I can only think I'm awesome after getting Step 1 back? I see nothing wrong with thinking you're awesome. Do you think you're not awesome? I bet you are awesome. Own your awesomeness.

Yes.

 

[DrBowtie]

It's not. DO's learn everything that MD's learn in medical school, but then we learn a lot more. In reality, MD's lack the qualification and the education to enter a DO residency.

Man, I sure do wish I had the "qualifications" to do an FP residency at a hospital with 100 beds.

 

[username456789]

It's not. DO's learn everything that MD's learn in medical school, but then we learn a lot more. In reality, MD's lack the qualification and the education to enter a DO residency.

You'll get a few bites, but mostly people will realize this is trolling and just pass over your post.

 

[RySerr21]

It's not. DO's learn everything that MD's learn in medical school, but then we learn a lot more. In reality, MD's lack the qualification and the education to enter a DO residency.

Ive been with you on this thread until this post. I go to an MD school, but i too think the discrimination between DOs and MDs is silly since they are the essentially the same exact degree. Students learn the same material, take comparable tests, and practice the same western medicine.A DO surgeon does the same lap choly as an MD surgeon...but what you just said is absolutely ridiculous. The only reason an MD would not be qualified to go to a DO residency is if it was in OMM...do those even exist? I imagine it would just be a fellowship.

 

[Aclamity]

Ive been with you on this thread until this post. I go to an MD school, but i too think the discrimination between DOs and MDs is silly since they are the essentially the same exact degree. Students learn the same material, take comparable tests, and practice the same western medicine.A DO surgeon does the same lap choly as an MD surgeon...but what you just said is absolutely ridiculous. The only reason an MD would not be qualified to go to a DO residency is if it was in OMM...do those even exist? I imagine it would just be a fellowship.

I was just reading up on it and it sounds like something that would be incorporated into PM&R. So even then, MDs would still be qualified.

I disagree with DO discrimination as well because I believe the degrees/education are pretty similar, but in the end these programs need to filter out their applicants somehow and base their selection on SOMETHING. You (OP, illegalysmooth, and others on this thread) seem to think this can be accomplished by basing their selection largely on step 1 score. But I think we can all agree that step 1 is neither an accurate measure of people's intelligence, nor of their aptitude for being a doctor.

I'm not saying they should filter out only MD applicants, but maybe there's more to it than that. Maybe academic institutions like MUSC just want students who have already been training at other large academic institutions, and on the whole those tend to be MD students. You never know.

And OP- don't be disappointed at being DO. honestly if I didn't get into MD I would've done DO over carib in a heartbeat. But that's another debate...

 

[buccsmf1]

It's not. DO's learn everything that MD's learn in medical school, but then we learn a lot more. In reality, MD's lack the qualification and the education to enter a DO residency.

Please, for the sake of the rest of us DOs that don't want to be embarrassed, just ignore this.

Most students, myself included, think it's ridiculous that MD students can't apply to DO residencies. We complain about inequality when we're the worst offenders. Obviously there is the OMM debate, but I think that could be remedied with some sort of supplemental online course + 1-2 week practical OMM class.

 

[Shadeblueracer]

My only issue is all the people I know that went to DO school did so b/c 1) they didn't get into an MD program and thus this was their back-up or 2) they self-selected themselves and only applied to DO b/c they knew they would get rejected from MD schools. I haven't come across 1 person who could have/did get into an MD program and instead decided to go to a DO school. You just don't see applicants who have a stellar application and numbers apply to DO and shun MD schools. The education at both programs is similar but the caliber of students is not. Note however, that these are generalizations and obviously it doesn't apply to everyone and that knowledge doesn't necessarily mean a person will be a good clinician although it certainly helps.

You're right that many DO's don't have the stats to get into MD schools. However, keep in mind that there are a number of us that applied solely DO based on location, cost, family tradition, and former contracts with dual admit programs.

 

[username456789]

However, keep in mind that there are a number of us that applied solely DO based on location, cost, family tradition, and former contracts with dual admit programs.

And that number is pretty darn small.

 

[illegallysmooth]

Yes.

Sorry, I didn't realize. 262!

 

[cofcemt]

Medical University of South Carolina (MUSC) is charging DO students $3,035 for each away rotation at the school, while MD students are only charged $150. More DO discrimination and another reason why I shouldn't have gone to DO school.

Ignoring the thread drift...it's all about MUSC needing cash flow. We embarked on a building campaign over the past decade while the state continued to reduce funding. That's why my alma mater started to increase number of out of state applicants and charged them $75k/yr and why my tuition increased by 25% in the 4 years I was there. They have some agreements with other MD schools I think is why it's cheaper.

 

[SouthSideSteve]

Man, I sure do wish I had the "qualifications" to do an FP residency at a hospital with 100 beds.

lol

 

[eeyoreish]

Man, I sure do wish I had the "qualifications" to do an FP residency at a hospital with 100 beds.

Zing!

Really though, as far as I know there are some decent AOA spots in the midwest in the old DO stronghold states. Ohio and Michigan mainly I think?

Also they have a fair number of surgery spots, and I imagine you need at least some level of infrastructure to run a neurosurgery program right?

 

[pipe dream]

sorry, i didn't realize. 262!

snap!!!!!

 

[WernickeDO]

Please, for the sake of the rest of us DOs that don't want to be embarrassed, just ignore this.

Most students, myself included, think it's ridiculous that MD students can't apply to DO residencies. We complain about inequality when we're the worst offenders. Obviously there is the OMM debate, but I think that could be remedied with some sort of supplemental online course + 1-2 week practical OMM class.

👍

The main issue is stemming from DO schools expanding their class roster without providing enough training spots for residency. If every DO student decided they were going to do an AOA residency, there wouldn't be anywhere near the slots for everyone. Meanwhile, I don't blame ACGME programs for dropping their AOA credentials. They've done their job and provided training for their grads, so why can't the AOA do the same? I think this is less an issue of discrimination and more of tightening the seats on the gravy train that DO students have been riding in increasing numbers.

 

[roast]

Sorry, I didn't realize. 262!

owned. she will probably be your attending one day so try not to piss her off too much.

also, just to expand on the original poster's point. I have had a very good connection with more than one department at UF Shands in gainesville since undergrad. It been somewhat of a given that I would come back for some rotations during 4th year, I was just informed now that DO students (only DO students), who have previously rotated there for free, now must pay full tuition for their rotation (800 a week for 4 weeks is 3200 bucks). how am i supposed to afford that while paying tuition at my own institution? i understand the principle behind this, but it only is hurting the students. why not screen the students to make sure they are good candidates with USMLE score and grades, then accept them for a rotation. this way you aren't missing out on possibly meeting a great future resident. Thoughts?

 

[snobored18]

👍

The main issue is stemming from DO schools expanding their class roster without providing enough training spots for residency. If every DO student decided they were going to do an AOA residency, there wouldn't be anywhere near the slots for everyone. Meanwhile, I don't blame ACGME programs for dropping their AOA credentials. They've done their job and provided training for their grads, so why can't the AOA do the same? I think this is less an issue of discrimination and more of tightening the seats on the gravy train that DO students have been riding in increasing numbers.

This is the post people should be reading. Why are MUSC and other institutions charging the fees to DOs and not MDs? It is simple supply and demand, clearly way more DO students are doing a rotation at these institutions than MDs. They know a DO student will fork over the cash whereas a US allopathic student when faced with a 3K rotation fee will walk away and pay the couple hundred bucks elsewhere most of the time to do an away. It isn't discrimination, it is capitalism and with budgets tight and DO enrollment skyrocketing MUSC won't be the first or the last institution to implement this sort of policy.

 

[docnotsopc]

My only issue is all the people I know that went to DO school did so b/c 1) they didn't get into an MD program and thus this was their back-up or 2) they self-selected themselves and only applied to DO b/c they knew they would get rejected from MD schools. I haven't come across 1 person who could have/did get into an MD program and instead decided to go to a DO school. You just don't see applicants who have a stellar application and numbers apply to DO and shun MD schools. The education at both programs is similar but the caliber of students is not. Note however, that these are generalizations and obviously it doesn't apply to everyone and that knowledge doesn't necessarily mean a person will be a good clinician although it certainly helps.

In my class (I am in a DO program) there is at least 10 people off the top my head that got into MD schools but chose to attend a DO school for various reasons (ie location, family etc). Not everyone is in medicine for the prestige and needs the MD title

 

[AngryBird69]

I just don't understand why do you guys even validate your MD haters by saying stuff like "oh I chose to go to DO school" or "DO includes OMM, MD doesn;t." It's exactly what they want; 99% of them are just trolling you for a reaction! The federal and state governments have already recognized your degree as equivalent to an MD, so leave it at that already...

And as far as alot of residencies passing up DOs, it is simply a numbers game. There are waaay more MDs than DOs and, given the nepotic nature of academic medicine, you simply help your own kind.

 

[The kitchen sink]

Isnt it obvious that tons of kids go DO because they are capable of being competent physicians but they slacked off/enjoyed undergrad and/or life resulting in whatever grades they got leading them into a DO school instead of MD. In essence, DO schools give kids who deserve to be physicians to become physicians when otherwise they may not have been.

 

[MCsoundt]

Isnt it obvious that tons of kids go DO because they are capable of being competent physicians but they slacked off/enjoyed undergrad and/or life resulting in whatever grades they got leading them into a DO school instead of MD. In essence, DO schools give kids who deserve to be physicians to become physicians when otherwise they may not have been.

.

 

[duckie99]

Not cocky, and not a guy. When I see an obstacle I set out to overcome it, I don't wallow in self-pity. I'm not trashing anyone, let alone "everyone else without a DO." You've misunderstood. I'm saying some residency programs pick some MDs who are less qualified than some DO applicants simply because they have MDs. I'm not saying ALL MD applicants are less qualified, LOL. And no, not attending the interview would not defeat the purpose. I want them to see my qualifications and see the letters after my name. I will not shy away from applying to residencies with records of DO discrimination.

just because your board scores are a few points higher does not make you better qualified. Often times the clinical rotations at DO institutions are far and away inferior even to the lower ranked MD schools. Also DO schools are significantly easier to get into and the crop of applicants is of a significantly lower caliber. The inherent ability of a DO applicant is usually much lower than an MD applicant. I'm not trying to be mean by the way, just stating some truths that MD program directors go by for better or worse.

You went to DO school. Why do you want to go to MD residency? Just do a DO residency and practice. They have most every field available I think. And most of the regular populace doesn't know the difference between MD and DO anyway.

 

[MrBeauregard]

just because your board scores are a few points higher does not make you better qualified. Often times the clinical rotations at DO institutions are far and away inferior even to the lower ranked MD schools. Also DO schools are significantly easier to get into and the crop of applicants is of a significantly lower caliber. The inherent ability of a DO applicant is usually much lower than an MD applicant. I'm not trying to be mean by the way, just stating some truths that MD program directors go by for better or worse.

You went to DO school. Why do you want to go to MD residency? Just do a DO residency and practice. They have most every field available I think. And most of the regular populace doesn't know the difference between MD and DO anyway.

:troll:

 

[pipe dream]

just because your board scores are a few pointshigher does not make you better qualified. Often times the clinical rotations at DO institutions are far and away inferior even to the lowerranked MD schools.

Often times according to whom? Where's your source for this?

Also DO schools are significantly easier to get into and the crop of applicants is of a significantly lower caliber.

The average GPA and MCAT for my class was 3.7 and 28. I wouldn't call that "significantly lower", especially when compared to low-tier allo schools.

The inherent ability of a DO applicant is usually much lower than an MD applicant.

Says who? Source? I don't believe that undergraduate education or GPA and MCAT determines "inherent ability." If you know something the rest of us don't, share.

 

[genswim24]

The average GPA and MCAT for my class was 3.7 and 28. I wouldn't call that "significantly lower", especially when compared to low-tier allo schools..

I think Ducki's statement is a joke. I have worked with many DO docs through my training and they are similar to the MD docs I work with. Some are awesome, some are mediocre and some are lousy, just like their MD counterparts. That's just the nature of all jobs.

I quoted the above because you can't really compare DO and MD schools average GPA's. DO schools allow retakes that wipe out old grades and MD school's do not. That doesn't mean I think that DO's aren't going to be good doctors, it's just a statistical argument that can't be made because it's comparing apples to oranges. Comparing MCAT scores between the two is fair game.

 

[mountainousmed]

To reiterate what has already been echoed thousands of times by now...the DO vs. MD flame war only exists in the pre-med world and among the ever fading number of old PD's who haven't kept up to speed on just how good DO programs have become. I just began my 3rd year clinical rotations and have not once encountered any sort of discrimination because I'm a DO student. Nor am I fretting over my ability to match into the program of my choice. My school's affiliations allow me the options of rotating through multiple big medical centers or through small rural hospitals. Your rotations are what you make of them, you just have to be persistent in getting what you want. If the hospital you want to rotate at demands a load of money, just pass them over! Their loss 🙂. It's that program's prerogative and, frankly, the sword does need to cut both ways. MD's should be allowed to apply for DO residencies (but with the precidence of learning OMM).

It's important to consider why you want to rotate through or apply to highly competitive MD residency programs in the first place. Programs like MUSC would be good if you were more interested in a career of academic/research oriented medicine. In fact, if this was already your intent, you honestly probably should have gone to a MD school in the first place. Most DO schools are intrinsically more focused on teaching how to practice medicine rather than academic research (in some ways to a fault, in my opinion, but this isn't always the rule). However, if your inclination is to learn to practice good medicine you don't have to be so narrowly focused on one program (or program type). You can get excellent training anywhere, otherwise they wouldn't be accredited.

On a side note, I was accepted to both MD and DO programs. I actually chose to go to a DO program because the facilities were much better and had a friendlier student environment (and I knew that the degrees were essentially equivalent). The stereotype that all DO's are back door MD's due to either poor MCAT scores or low GPA is perhaps not as applicable today as it may have been in the past. To drive home that point one of my classmates scored a 35 on the MCAT, had stellar undergrad GPA, and still chose to go to a DO program. The argumentation on program superiority based on academics alone is hollow. It should be based on the quality of care their graduates provide upon completion of their program, which is how you will be judged in the real world.

 

[ArcGurren]

M.D. student here. Didn't apply for DO school but we rotate with DO students from another school at a couple of our clinical sites. I've found them generally to be a nice, hard working, and very competent bunch.

Yes, discrimination exists in the MD world against DOs (and DO residencies also discriminate against MDs so....) but it by and large is getting better; if I saw ten of the IM residents at my school and five of them were DOs and I wasn't aware who was who beforehand, I would be completely unable to pick them out of a lineup if they were tested or asked questions or evaluated on their clinical ability or whatever.

Life sucks, move on.