my 2 cents

[Gfunk6]

Well, now that the Match is finally over and many of us managed to get into Rad Onc, I thought it would be nice to leave a guide for future applicants. This field is so small and good advice is so hard to come by that I feel our combined noggins can produce a lot of useful information. I guess the easiest way to to do things would be to post lessons or pointers you would each like to impart and then maybe I could put it into prose form. The "final" guide could then be stickied.

Here goes . . .

1. Interviews tend to come LATE (some may even come in early Jan). Despite this, some applicants wait to get RadOnc interviews before they apply to Prelim/Transitional programs that are in the same city. This could present a problem if programs have a deadline @ the end of Nov.

2. If you rotated with the program and did a good job, then they will interview you even if your scores are not stratospheric. Sadly, this is not a hard and fast rule but in general I think it is better to do rotations in "big name" places to secure high-powered LORs.

3. Go everywhere you get an interview offer in RadOnc!! Even if the program is interviewing 50 people for 1 spot, you can't afford to be picky. This may prove difficult b/c of interview conflicts -- try to work it out with the program though most will not budge their dates.

4. When a program says, "We're building a proton facility" or "We are moving into a brand new facility next year" don't buy it!! I've met several senior residents who were told such things as applicants and they have yet to see them. Always assume that what they have is what you'll get.

5. Unless you have pubs in Nature/Science/Cell/Neuron AND 250+ Step I AND Junior AOA AND a LOR from Jesus, then apply to as many programs as you can afford. The process of receiving interviews is seemingly random and you never know where you will get hits. For instance, I was told there was a regional bias in RadOnc but I received only one interview in my "region" (SE)!!! Everyone else who expressed interest is in the NE, midwest, and west coast.

6. For heaven's sake do NOT trust what PDs say to you unless they give it to you in writing. Sometimes, they will call you days before the rank deadline and give you false assurances -- don't buy it and, for the love of pete, don't shorten your rank list!!

7. Always look out for #1 . . . YOU!! Treat every interview as if it were the only one you had and always show enthusiasim and interest. Even if you are a superstar, don't act entitled or conceited.

8. Regardless of what the optimists tell you -- your school's reputation does make a big difference and not having a home radonc program will hurt you. Nevertheless, this only means your path will be more difficult not insurmountable. Apply widely and follow the rules above and, hopefully, things will work out for you. (Please Note: Do NOT post to this thread saying that so-and-so got into [insert competitive RadOnc program] and came from [not so competitive school]. Anecdotal evidence means little -- you have to look @ trends b/c there will always be outliers)

Thought of a couple more . . .

9. Apply early to ERAS! If you can, apply during the first week. Some faculty are notorious for taking forever to get their LORs back to your med school so that they may be uploaded. So ask for LORs as early in advance as you can. Remember that you can add stuff to ERAS like LORs, updated Board scores, etc. later in the application season.

10. If you are an MS-1 or MS-2 and are interested in RadOnc you are ahead of the game. PDs prefer people who have been interested in the field for a long time. Get over to your RadOnc department and try to work on a small research project and get an advisor early.

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[CNphair]

10. If you are an MS-1 or MS-2 and are interested in RadOnc you are ahead of the game. PDs prefer people who have been interested in the field for a long time. Get over to your RadOnc department and try to work on a small research project and get an advisor early.

I was interested in Rad Onc from mid-MS-1 year. I had already started a clinical project in pediatric oncology. As the project evolved, I chose to stick with it (published twice) instead of chasing after a more superficial (in my mind) Rad Onc project. I did this at the advice of an established rad onc figure.

Hind sight is 20/20. After enduring countless "But why no rad onc research?" questions on the interview trail, I sadly concluded that it is better to have a superficial role in a rad onc project than a more involved one on a non-rad onc topic (even if it is oncology!).

Exceptions: Anybody with a PhD. They love you no matter what. But for those future applicants that may lack a strong research background, I advise getting your name on something under the "Rad Onc" title. Even if it is just a small chart review. Do something. If you have other research, that is great. But understand, it will often be viewed as of secondary importance.

 

[fun8stuff]

I was interested in Rad Onc from mid-MS-1 year. I had already started a clinical project in pediatric oncology. As the project evolved, I chose to stick with it (published twice) instead of chasing after a more superficial (in my mind) Rad Onc project. I did this at the advice of an established rad onc figure.

Hind sight is 20/20. After enduring countless "But why no rad onc research?" questions on the interview trail, I sadly concluded that it is better to have a superficial role in a rad onc project than a more involved one on a non-rad onc topic (even if it is oncology!).

Exceptions: Anybody with a PhD. They love you no matter what. But for those future applicants that may lack a strong research background, I advise getting your name on something under the "Rad Onc" title. Even if it is just a small chart review. Do something. If you have other research, that is great. But understand, it will often be viewed as of secondary importance.

when is the time to do this research? is summer of m1 the only time?

 

[Gfunk6]

when is the time to do this research? is summer of m1 the only time?

You can do research b/w your 1st and 2nd year, but the most popular time is probably b/w 2nd and 3rd year. Depending on how flexible your school is with scheduling core clerkships and senior electives, you may be able to block some research time during the 3rd year as well.

Like CNPhair said, it is probably better to do research that is directly related to RadOnc (e.g. retrospective studies, dosimetric analyses).

 

[Daichi Katase]

what kind of basic research oppotunities are available in Radonc?

Say i want to work with a physicist interested in:
- Computing in radiation therapy
- Radiation therapy treatment Planning
- Quality assurance in radiation therapy

I know a physicist but I don't want to contact him till I have an idea of what basic science oppotunities are availabe in radonc. I have a math and engineering background so i am not scared of computational stuff...what basic science projects did you do in radonc?

 

[darrvao777]

Great advice!

I'm curious what a PD could write down on paper for you though. I thought it was illegal to assure a spot to an applicant?

If any illicit agreements like that are made, I would have thought they were always done via a statement with no paper trail?

 

[stephew]

No one is going to make you a legal promise of a match. You can on occasion sign outside the match (IMGs do routinely but of course that doesnt happen in radonc) and other some circumstances this will happen, but if you are going through the match, YOU HAVE NO PROMISES.

 

[fun8stuff]

You can do research b/w your 1st and 2nd year, but the most popular time is probably b/w 2nd and 3rd year. Depending on how flexible your school is with scheduling core clerkships and senior electives, you may be able to block some research time during the 3rd year as well.

Like CNPhair said, it is probably better to do research that is directly related to RadOnc (e.g. retrospective studies, dosimetric analyses).

thanks for your response. i will be doing oncology behavioral research this summer (dealing with improving communication between oncologists & patients). I have done some bench research in oncology in undergrad and this caught my interest as being something a little different... and my mentor was really nice at helping me write my funding proposal.

in your opinion, will this be a waste of my time this summer? my understanding from reading different posts is that this will be okay, but not as good as strict radonc research.

 

[Gfunk6]

I'm curious what a PD could write down on paper for you though. I thought it was illegal to assure a spot to an applicant?

No one is going to make you a legal promise of a match. You can on occasion sign outside the match (IMGs do routinely but of course that doesnt happen in radonc) and other some circumstances this will happen, but if you are going through the match, YOU HAVE NO PROMISES.

Agree with stephew. "Get it in writing" is more of an expression. My point was don't trust what PDs tell you, you have way too much to lose.

in your opinion, will this be a waste of my time this summer?

I definitely would not say it would be a waste. A lot of my work was RadOnc related so I think I would defer to CNPhair's opinions on the subject.

what kind of basic research oppotunities are available in Radonc?

Well basic research kind of implies radiobiology which is what I worked on. If you are interested in physics, many students do dosimetry studies which can be completed in a reasonable amount of time (1-2 months). Physics research that is more in depth than this usually requires graduate specialization. Certainly software computational algorithims are a hot topic of research as well as hardware-related issues re: linear accelerators/protons. However, it is usually beyond the scope of your average medical student to get a publication (let alone a first-author one) in these areas.

 

[CNphair]

in your opinion, will this be a waste of my time this summer?

Absolutely not! All research is good research. Period. However, some research is better than others. From my experience, I gathered that basic science research in radiobiology gets you the most "points" on your application. However, in most situations, this is reserved for the PhDs because lab research takes a long time - more than most medical students have.

Clinical research (physics, dosimetry, etc...) can be just as impressive. Especially if you get a significant publication or abstract presentation out of it...

I worked on a clinical heme/onc project. I still got very good interviews, and I am very happy with where I matched. However, some PDs were very matter-of-fact about using rad onc research as a screening technique. Most do not. You just need to have some tangible results from the research that you do. Not much credit is given to summer externships or projects that do not produce published data.

Many of the candidates out there have fabulous research with numerous abstracts, grants, papers, etc...However, you don't need a PhD to match in Rad Onc. It helps - if I could have bought one, I would have. For those students that have a rather shallow research background, you need to find a mentor - the sooner the better. Be honest about your objectives - you want to learn more about radiation oncology AND make your application stronger. If you are an MS2, you don't have 5 years to devote to the lab. Let them know this upfront.

On a personal note, your project sounds very solid. I would definitely stay involved. If you can get another project on the side, it will put you in an even better position.

 

[user_name]

I cannot agree any more fervently with CN's statement that published data is the KEY. My home PD told me as an MS1 that basic science was the way things were moving for radonc residents. He said it was better to spend a summer in the basic science lab learning skills and techniques than to publish a small, simple clinical project just to have my name on something. I worked very hard on a project for 3 months that did not work. On interviews, it was as though I had spent my time playing tiddlywinks. Without a paper, it DOES NOT COUNT! Others who did little projects that took one month and were simply submitted to a journal or meeting, not accepted mind you, got a lot more play than my project that actually required me to stay overnight (24 hours straight) weekly. If you want to do basic science as a non-PhD, have your project clearly spelled out before you agree, be sure someone will continue the work when you return to med school, and look for projects that are already close to done. As these criteria are likely rarely fulfilled, I would say stick to clinical reviews as a med stud and get it submitted to Weekly Reader if you have to just to have it's "publication pending" on your CV.

 

[fun8stuff]

I cannot agree any more fervently with CN's statement that published data is the KEY. My home PD told me as an MS1 that basic science was the way things were moving for radonc residents. He said it was better to spend a summer in the basic science lab learning skills and techniques than to publish a small, simple clinical project just to have my name on something. I worked very hard on a project for 3 months that did not work. On interviews, it was as though I had spent my time playing tiddlywinks. Without a paper, it DOES NOT COUNT! Others who did little projects that took one month and were simply submitted to a journal or meeting, not accepted mind you, got a lot more play than my project that actually required me to stay overnight (24 hours straight) weekly. If you want to do basic science as a non-PhD, have your project clearly spelled out before you agree, be sure someone will continue the work when you return to med school, and look for projects that are already close to done. As these criteria are likely rarely fulfilled, I would say stick to clinical reviews as a med stud and get it submitted to Weekly Reader if you have to just to have it's "publication pending" on your CV.

so do presentations (powerpoint or poster) count for anything?

 

[Gfunk6]

so do presentations (powerpoint or poster) count for anything?

Sure they do -- as long as they are presented in a national or regional meeting. On ERAS, these are legitimate publications. Presentations you do at the end of RadOnc externships, on the other hand, don't count as such.

 

[clintpark]

what kind of basic research oppotunities are available in Radonc?

Say i want to work with a physicist interested in:
- Computing in radiation therapy
- Radiation therapy treatment Planning
- Quality assurance in radiation therapy

I know a physicist but I don't want to contact him till I have an idea of what basic science oppotunities are availabe in radonc. I have a math and engineering background so i am not scared of computational stuff...what basic science projects did you do in radonc?

speaking from personal experience, i don't think physics research carries as much weight as working with clinicians or doing a biology research.

reasons 1) many people think the next wave of rad onc research breakthroughs will come from radiobiology, 2) LOR from a physicist often not as strong as one from a doctor, 3) interviews won't go as smoothly b/c most interviewers won't follow you when you explain your research to them, and 4) you will still have to be enthusiastic about your research (which can be awkward).

however, if it's a choice between publishing with a physics research and not publishing, or if there is a physician with whom you can collaborate so that you can also get a LOR from him/her, definitely go with it.

 

[cdql]

That is true!

Besides publishing, an important part of the admissions process is being able to enthusiastically and passionately describe your research! It may be more difficult to maintain your own enthusiasm and continue stoking your interviewer's interest if you are describing a very complex physics research project!

Of course, if your interviewer happens to have a degree in physics, you are in luck!

 

[Daichi Katase]

Thanks for all the info guys!

 

[deleted4401]

I know it's been said, but I was just browsing match lists on another part of the forum and it is very clear that programs clearly favor their own. The top programs can justify it by saying that their students are amongst the best (i.e. the Joint Center program taking 4 HMS kids), but even the mid-level programs do it. When 1 out of 2 spots are taken by in-house applicants, it makes it tough. Downstate, Northwestern, Harvard, Florida, Michigan, Loyola, Stanford, Pittsburgh, Miami, Baylor, Jefferson, I think MCW, all took at least one from their program.

So, if you don't have a rad-onc residency at your school you are at a significant disadvantage. If you do have one, you should impress the hell out of them and make it clear to them that you want to be there.

Finally, for those of us that matched - we should be quite appreciative of our luck. I know only the 'better' applicants seem to put their "Match Stats" up, but the numbers are amazing. I bet the average Step 1 is in the 240 range, and I'd bet more than half of matched applicants is AOA. The next few classes of graduating radiation oncologists is going to be amazing. If we keep our word and stay academic, the future of the field is in great hands.

Later,
S

 

[thinksnow]

After months of reading advice on this forum, it is a little strange to be the one typing it, but here goes...

Rotations: Start setting these up now. Some programs take phone calls to reserve a spot (ie UCSF) whereas others will only reserve a spot with your completed app and check in hand. I chose to do two away rotations at strong (top ten) programs. Having no home rad onc residency, I felt that I needed some strong big name letters from those in the field. This advice is trite but very true. Especially if you are from a school sans rad onc residency, consider at least 1-2 rotations at the big places. The letters will take you far. And yes, it is possible to get a strong LOR as a visiting student for only 2-4 weeks. I received positive feedback on letters from two institutions where I was merely a visiting student.

Letters: You can put as many letters as you want in your ERAS account, and then pick and choose the ones you want to use. I had two letters written for me that I never used, as "better" ones had come through. Do not hesitate to ask for letters in third year rotations/away rotations/with research mentors. As I said, you do not need to use every letter you get. I chose to use a letter from a physician with whom I did research, the chairman of medicine, and two rad onc recs from my away rotations. Other people used totally different letters combos, and had equal success, so do what works best for you. Beware that letters from away rotations may arrive later, or not at all, so try to have a backup letter or two.

Research: If you don't have any research experience, now is the time to contact your local friendly radiation oncologist and see if you can get in on the action. That said, significant research over a number of years is awesome if you have it. I would be very wary to apply without any research, as this was a favorite topic of discussion during interviews and rotations.

Good luck to this years applicants, and feel free to post/pm me with any questions

 

[fun8stuff]

After months of reading advice on this forum, it is a little strange to be the one typing it, but here goes...

Rotations: Start setting these up now. Some programs take phone calls to reserve a spot (ie UCSF) whereas others will only reserve a spot with your completed app and check in hand. I chose to do two away rotations at strong (top ten) programs. Having no home rad onc residency, I felt that I needed some strong big name letters from those in the field. This advice is trite but very true. Especially if you are from a school sans rad onc residency, consider at least 1-2 rotations at the big places. The letters will take you far. And yes, it is possible to get a strong LOR as a visiting student for only 2-4 weeks. I received positive feedback on letters from two institutions where I was merely a visiting student.

Letters: You can put as many letters as you want in your ERAS account, and then pick and choose the ones you want to use. I had two letters written for me that I never used, as "better" ones had come through. Do not hesitate to ask for letters in third year rotations/away rotations/with research mentors. As I said, you do not need to use every letter you get. I chose to use a letter from a physician with whom I did research, the chairman of medicine, and two rad onc recs from my away rotations. Other people used totally different letters combos, and had equal success, so do what works best for you. Beware that letters from away rotations may arrive later, or not at all, so try to have a backup letter or two.

Research: If you don't have any research experience, now is the time to contact your local friendly radiation oncologist and see if you can get in on the action. That said, significant research over a number of years is awesome if you have it. I would be very wary to apply without any research, as this was a favorite topic of discussion during interviews and rotations.

Good luck to this years applicants, and feel free to post/pm me with any questions

regarding LORs: do you ask them to give you the LOR or do you have them mail them to a 3rd party where you can select which ones are sent to programs?

 

[Gfunk6]

regarding LORs: do you ask them to give you the LOR or do you have them mail them to a 3rd party where you can select which ones are sent to programs?

All LORs are sent directly to your med school (though I suppose if an attending didn't know better he could give it to you to give to them). The med school then uploads it to ERAS.

 

[happyradonc]

that's great. keep up the good work.

 

[CanIMakeIt]

All LORs are sent directly to your med school (though I suppose if an attending didn't know better he could give it to you to give to them). The med school then uploads it to ERAS.

Does that mean we can look at and read the LORs or just that we can click-n-check which ones we want to use?

 

[medgator]

No... you will have to sign a statement on the cover sheet for each letter stating that you waive the right to see the letter's contents.

 

[argonana]

Hi all,

I'm an MS0 probably entering UC Davis this fall (though I'm still deciding between UCD and Emory). I just learned about radonc this past year, and I've gotten pretty interested in the field--it seems like it would fit well with my interests in math and physics.

Given the strong favoritism toward big name schools in the rad onc match, I'm wondering if it be relatively difficult to match into radonc from UCD. Would having a PhD help much (I'm considering getting a PhD in biophysics or bioengineering during med school)?

 

[Gfunk6]

Given the strong favoritism toward big name schools in the rad onc match, I'm wondering if it be relatively difficult to match into radonc from UCD.

UC-Davis has a RadOnc program & residency so you should have a leg up over other applicants w/o this advantage.

Would having a PhD help much (I'm considering getting a PhD in biophysics or bioengineering during med school)?

It would help, but definitely don't do a PhD just to buff your CV. Only do it if you are genuinely interested in going into academics with research a significnant part of your career.

 

[argonana]

UC-Davis has a RadOnc program & residency so you should have a leg up over other applicants w/o this advantage.



It would help, but definitely don't do a PhD just to buff your CV. Only do it if you are genuinely interested in going into academics with research a significnant part of your career.

Thanks for responding! Just two more quick questions--

What value does a master's degree (say in engineering, chemistry, or biophysics) hold in terms of the match and in terms of career flexibility (ability to do research, go into academics, etc.)?

Could anyone rank the radonc programs at these three "smaller" CA schools:
UC Davis
UC Irvine
USC Keck

 

[Gfunk6]

What value does a master's degree (say in engineering, chemistry, or biophysics) hold in terms of the match and in terms of career flexibility (ability to do research, go into academics, etc.)?

It may help you in the Match if you have some publications. If not, it will carry weight but probably not a whole lot. Whether or not your Master's degree makes you suitable for an academic career depends largely on the nature of the degree. If the degree was a "professional" type degree (e.g. Masters in Dosimetry) then it will not matter. If the degree was "research" oriented (e.g. you have publications) then it will help you somewhat.

U Irvine
U Davis
USC Keck

In my opnion, these three schools (as far as I know) are largely equivalent in terms of reputation. As far as specific hardware and the facilities of the individual departments, well, I couldn't really say.

 

[120300]

No one is going to make you a legal promise of a match. You can on occasion sign outside the match (IMGs do routinely but of course that doesnt happen in radonc) and other some circumstances this will happen, but if you are going through the match, YOU HAVE NO PROMISES.

stephew, can you (or anyone else in the know) help me understand what exactly is meant by signing "outside the match" and what this entails.

 

[Gfunk6]

stephew, can you (or anyone else in the know) help me understand what exactly is meant by signing "outside the match" and what this entails.

Traditionally, it meant a program offering you a spot before the Match. As long as you withdrew from the Match, the program will take you without the whole hassle of rank lists/match day. This was more common in the past when RadOnc was less competitive but it is not the case now.

Another definition would be for people who did not match the first time around. If they do a PGY-1 prelim anyway, then they can "slip into" a PGY-2 position. As you can see by the public announcements on this board, spots open sporadically.

 

[ideas]

I read above that you can submit your app and then update it later (in terms of LOR). Will programs continue to view your application as you update it or will they only review it after EVERYTHING is in. For example, lets say I'll have my step 2 scores and 3 letters of rec by Sept 1st and then I end up getting a surprise LOR from somewhere, would programs still know that I turned my app in early or would a new submission date be entered everytime I update something?

 

[Gfunk6]

You can submit your application piecemeal. There is a common application form (CAF) and personal statement that make up the core of your application. You can (and should) submit these parts early. Everything else can be added later Step 2 scores and LORs. Generally each program downloads applications on a particular day and then subsequently "re-checks" for new stuff every week or so. Programs will know when you uploaded each component.

Absolutely do NOT wait until your entire application is complete before uploading.

 

[widoc]

This thread has gotten just a little tangential from its original purpose; I wonder if someone could address a concern I have about the very first post:

1. Interviews tend to come LATE (some may even come in early Jan). Despite this, some applicants wait to get RadOnc interviews before they apply to Prelim/Transitional programs that are in the same city. This could present a problem if programs have a deadline @ the end of Nov.

I have been stressing about how to work the transitional year. What do you recommend as a better strategy than the example given here? I realize that applying to many programs is probably a good idea, but it's a bit unreasonable to take interviews all over the country just for the transitional year, especially if the regional radonc program isn't even going to end up interviewing you.

Also, I've never been entirely clear on how the transitional year match works. It's probably posted somewhere on another forum I guess. Do they just run the radonc algorithm first and if you match somewhere it activates the second match? Do they give preference to where the radonc match is? I would hate to match at my #6 radonc choice, for example, and then get my first choice for my TY. I would rather just move once and do the TY wherever my definitive residency is.

 

[Gfunk6]

The TY/prelim year always presents a difficult situation for RadOnc. Personally, I simply applied to programs close to home med school so I didn't have to move twice. This may be a more effective strategy unless you want to live in a certain place for one year.

The Match Algorithim is set up so you have a contingent TY/Prelim rank list based on where you match for RadOnc.

 

[stephew]

please only post on this thread to contribute directly to the "application guide" theme/topic.

 

[JustAResident]

My first and only post (and sorry, it's a long one). I'm a senior resident at a program usually ranked on this board as 2nd tier (ie, not MSKCC or MDACC) and after one of our students pointed out this message board I thought I would offer my advice to next years applying class. This reflects mostly the way that our program runs, and what I've heard from and about other department's PDs from reliable sources.

Applications- the important thing to remember is that we get more highly qualified applicants than we can possibly interview, something that is becoming more of a problem as more students apply to all the programs. Our PD looks boards, grades, and research but puts a lot of weight on rec.s, deans letters, and personal statements (our last PD did not even read the personal statements, so&#8230. We interview all outside rotators, but not everyone does this. Keep in mind that after you eliminate applications that have any clear flaws, vague flaws, or hints of vague flaws, you probably still have 50-70 great students, and 10-30 interview slots. Inevitably, if it comes down to choosing between 2 students who are both well qualified, we'll invite the one that is most likely to ultimately want to come here. We specifically try not to discriminate by geography, but I would urge you that if there is a program that is particularly appealing to you, find a way to convey your specific interest either in a letter of rec, your personal statement, or in a separate communication to the PD before invites are sent. Once we've invited, we're done, so its too late.

Interviews- once we've settled on our list of interviewees, the playing field is relatively level again. In other words, the interview is everything. At this point, your application is really not much more that something to use to have a conversation with you (seriously, when the interviewers rank you they often do not look at your packet). Yet every year we get a handful of applicants who give off this vibe that we're just lucky to have them visit, who talk about nothing but all of the other top programs that they've been to, and otherwise show no interest in our dept. You have a 1st author paper in Cell? You started a clinic in Africa during your year off? You have a letter from 3 top chairmen? Good for you, but why did you waste your time and money (and ours) coming to visit if you're clearly not interested? While most programs (with the exceptions of MSKCC, MDACC, Harvard, ?others) understand that many interviewees will not be listing them #1, we will not rank people who are not interested at all. We interviewed a candidate this year with a step 1 score of > 260, top of their class, AOA , multiple publications, great letters, who showed zero interest in our program. Interviewed well otherwise, but he was not ranked. Also, remember to be polite to everyone, including residents, secretaries, etc. At our program, residents don't specifically rank the applicants (and we do not report on what is specifically discussed with them when attendings are not around), but we are asked informally who we liked and who was interested. As with the applications, there is not that much difference between the person ranked 4th and 12th, so the PD is looking for a reason to move someone up or down. A receptionist stating that so-and-so was rude on the phone will definitely move you down. If you ask the residents about the program, this shows that you're really interested.

Absolutely send a polite thank you note, call, or email after your interview. You do not need to tell us whether we're your first choice or not, but if you do then wait until all your interviews are done. Some programs will put a lot of weight on whether the applicants are likely to rank them highly into the ROL, others will put none (and you don't know which are which). We don't put a lot of weight into it, but if you show a lot of interest and there's a tie between #5,6, and 7, this can put you at 5 instead of 7. Saying that we are your #1 choice definitely shows the most interest, but otherwise just say that you liked the dept etc etc (‘I ranked you highly' just insults everyone's intelligence, PDs talk about whether an applicant ‘said the #1 thing', anything else is just fluff). I cannot stress strongly enough that you should not tell a PD that you will rank them #1 unless you are really ranking them #1. This is a very, very, very small field. Any PD can probably name every single applicant who ever lied to them about this (that's what this is: lying). This will absolutely come back to bite you someplace that cannot be mentioned without violating the rules of this board.
This seems like very simplistic advice, but I've seen it screwed up too often. Be yourselves, and good luck.

 

[stephew]

im going to merge this with the applciation guideline thread. I think these points are very good (take note of his comments about interview...)

 

[StanleyCup7]

Bump...I thought this would be an excellent thread for all current MS III's to read with an especially insightful initial post by GFunk.