My chances in these schools

[smile1234]

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1. Nova
2. Indiana University
3. Detroit Mercy
4. Univ of Michigan
5. Maryland
6. Columbia
7. Buffalo
8. Case
9. UPenn
10.Harvard

cGPA 4.20, sGPA 4.22, 420+ hrs of shadowing and volunteer assistant experience in dental clinic, prior MD from overseas and experience of 6 years working as a General Practitioner, very strong LORs but my main concern is DAT which is Bio 21, Chem 20, TS 20, AA 20, PAT 15. I just took DAT once in my first year, was planning to take it again but felt it was delaying my application so finally decided to submit my application with this DAT. Please don't criticize or say its inflation of score as this score is from two different universities.

 

[smile1234]

Any inputs??

 

[somethinpositiv]

1. Nova
2. Indiana University
3. Detroit Mercy
4. Univ of Michigan
5. Maryland
6. Columbia
7. Buffalo
8. Case
9. UPenn
10.Harvard

cGPA 4.20, sGPA 4.22, 420+ hrs of shadowing and volunteer assistant experience in dental clinic, prior MD from overseas and experience of 6 years working as a General Practitioner, very strong LORs but my main concern is DAT which is Bio 21, Chem 20, TS 20, AA 20, PAT 15. I just took DAT once in my first year, was planning to take it again but felt it was delaying my application so finally decided to submit my application with this DAT. Please don't criticize or say its inflation of score as this score is from two different universities.

Your list is pretty solid. Your DAT is low for Harvard (which averages 24 AA) but they're probably good for the other schools you're applying to. Also, do your research into what schools have a PAT cutoff (perhaps call each school individually), many schools have a cutoff of 17 and won't even look at your application.

 

[smile1234]

Thanks a lot for your reply.

 

[nze82]

You're planing to get into dental school with a PAT score of 15?
I don't think that's possible my friend.

 

[smile1234]

You're planing to get into dental school with a PAT score of 15?
I don't think that's possible my friend.

Thanks for your advise but be sure yourself before advising someone.

 

[Teeth4Life]

I'm sure you will book several of those interviews...the 15 might raise just a little concern but im sure your other aspects will cover it up. Good luck!

 

[Jongho Yoon]

You're planing to get into dental school with a PAT score of 15?
I don't think that's possible my friend.

I kind of agree with him even though I don't like the wording. I believe PAT is one of the most important section dental schools look for along with science sections. I don't think PAT 15 will be overlooked by many dental schools. I would take off harvard, penn, and columbia. What happen by the way on PAT section? You got like half wrong.

 

[notin]

You're planing to get into dental school with a PAT score of 15?
I don't think that's possible my friend.

this is a bit strong. a 15 pat is definitely a pretty big problem, but with every other score strong, i think it is forgivable. maybe not by harvard, but who knows.

 

[nze82]

this is a bit strong. a 15 pat is definitely a pretty big problem, but with every other score strong, i think it is forgivable. maybe not by harvard, but who knows.

I really don't believe any school would overlook the PAT score. PAT is extremely important, which is why it's an independent score.

 

[huk1985]

I know for sure you won't get into Case, as they do have DAT cutoff. Also, like everybody said, Penn and Harvard just won't take someone with 15 PAT...

 

[smile1234]

I kind of agree with him even though I don't like the wording. I believe PAT is one of the most important section dental schools look for along with science sections. I don't think PAT 15 will be overlooked by many dental schools. I would take off harvard, penn, and columbia. What happen by the way on PAT section? You got like half wrong.

I have seen on ADEA book UPenn PAT score range between 15-26 and Columbia is between 15-25. So i felt maybe I have a chance too because there is nothing else that looks bad on my application. I am concerned about Harvard and I would probably take it off my list. As I mentioned I took DAT when I was in first year and just gave it for trial. As I didnt have any practice of PAT I ran out of time and couldn't even finish it so resulted in 15. I thought I will take DAT again but always remained busy in other courses and exams. Now I didn't want to delay my application and even few people told me that rest of my application can mitigate it. Do you mean to say that I dont have any chances at all because of PAT? I have already submitted my application but going to add more schools as I just applied at 2 schools. In that application I have just mentioned that I am submitting this DAT score. I can take DAT again maybe in the end of july but how can I change that on my application? Is it better idea to contact schools and tell them I am taking again if I dont have any chance at all.

 

[smile1234]

I know for sure you won't get into Case, as they do have DAT cutoff. Also, like everybody said, Penn and Harvard just won't take someone with 15 PAT...

ADEA book states that the students selected for 2008 had PAT ranging between 15-25 at Case.

 

[smile1234]

I'm sure you will book several of those interviews...the 15 might raise just a little concern but im sure your other aspects will cover it up. Good luck!

Thanks!

 

[nze82]

Thanks!

Are you seeking sympathy or constructive feedback?

 

[Teeth4Life]

Are you seeking sympathy or constructive feedback?

He worked as an MD for 6 years, plus dental shadowing for 400+ hours...now really, his ability to work practically will be much stronger than a little portion of a perceptual test which is taken at 8 am in most cases.

 

[smile1234]

Are you seeking sympathy or constructive feedback?

Definitely constructive feedback. Thats why I am asking this question.

 

[Jongho Yoon]

I have seen on ADEA book UPenn PAT score range between 15-26 and Columbia is between 15-25. So i felt maybe I have a chance too because there is nothing else that looks bad on my application. I can take DAT again maybe in the end of july but how can I change that on my application? Is it better idea to contact schools and tell them I am taking again if I dont have any chance at all.

According to predents, the average DAT score for Columbia is 22 and Penn, 21. Aside from considering PAT, your DAT score AA 20 itself is lower than the average.

If you can take it in the end of july, I would retake and update the score (if you choose to retake). I am not sure how you are able to change that though after submitting it.

 

[nze82]

He worked as an MD for 6 years, plus dental shadowing for 400+ hours...now really, his ability to work practically will be much stronger than a little portion of a perceptual test which is taken at 8 am in most cases.

When people say ur chances are slim with these stats it doesnt mean they have a personal issue with you. None of us have a saying in the final decision of the schools ur interested in. We're simply giving you some of the facts. Everyone can come here and tell u that ur gonna be just fine with these stats, and that may make u happy for now. But when you end up getting a pile of rejection letters, don't wonder why!
U have solid scores in your science section. It's sad if u end up getting rejected just cuz u didn't want to boost that PAT score. You'll be much more competitive if you boos that PAT score, and then you don't have to rely on chance and magic to get accepted. Suck it up, study some more and go rock that exam. You'll thank yourself later.

 

[Teeth4Life]

When people say ur chances are slim with these stats it doesnt mean they have a personal issue with you. None of us have a saying in the final decision of the schools ur interested in. We're simply giving you some of the facts. Everyone can come here and tell u that ur gonna be just fine with these stats, and that may make u happy for now. But when you end up getting a pile of rejection letters, don't wonder why!
U have solid scores in your science section. It's sad if u end up getting rejected just cuz u didn't want to boost that PAT score. You'll be much more competitive if you boos that PAT score, and then you don't have to rely on chance and magic to get accepted. Suck it up, study some more and go rock that exam. You'll thank yourself later.

Yep youre absolutely right, but it doesn't hurt to just give a little hope either especially, like you said, we don't know what the final decision is....as for me I am psyched to get a few letters...hopefully not rejection lol 😛

 

[nze82]

Yep youre absolutely right, but it doesn't hurt to just give a little hope either especially, like you said, we don't know what the final decision is....as for me I am psyched to get a few letters...hopefully not rejection lol 😛

See...the reason that I don't like to give people false hope is that I know how horrible it feels when you don't get in, when everyone around you told you "Oh! you'll be just fine." Last year I had AA:19 TS:20 PA:19. I asked my friends whether or not I should retake and everyone told me oh no, you'll definitely get in. I ended up getting two interviews and 7 rejections; whereas, I could've taken the exam again and end up with the same DAT scores that I earned this year. I don't want him/her to experience the same horrible feeling.

 

[Teeth4Life]

See...the reason that I don't like to give people false hope is that I know how horrible it feels when you don't get in, when everyone around you told you "Oh! you'll be just fine." Last year I had AA:19 TS:20 PA:19. I asked my friends whether or not I should retake and everyone told me oh no, you'll definitely get in. I ended up getting two interviews and 7 rejections; whereas, I could've taken the exam again and end up with the same DAT scores that I earned this year. I don't want him/her to experience the same horrible feeling.

Oh, what are your scores now and where did you apply...if you don't mind me asking?

 

[nze82]

Oh, what are your scores now and where did you apply...if you don't mind me asking?

This year I ended up with:
AA:22
TS:22
PA:20
My weak area last year was RC (18) and I think that hindered my chances significantly, since english is not my first language. This year I managed to bring the RC score up to 23.

 

[smile1234]

See...the reason that I don't like to give people false hope is that I know how horrible it feels when you don't get in, when everyone around you told you "Oh! you'll be just fine." Last year I had AA:19 TS:20 PA:19. I asked my friends whether or not I should retake and everyone told me oh no, you'll definitely get in. I ended up getting two interviews and 7 rejections; whereas, I could've taken the exam again and end up with the same DAT scores that I earned this year. I don't want him/her to experience the same horrible feeling.

Thanks for your honest advise. I wish I should have taken DAT again but now I have even submitted the application and cant do anything other than hoping that my GPA and experience help me. And please guys don't fight for me. I have decided to go in this application cycle with these scores and will take DAT by the end of this year and if I fail to be selected this year I will apply next year with stronger DAT alongwith the rest of my strong application.

 

[nze82]

Thanks for your honest advise. I wish I should have taken DAT again but now I have even submitted the application and cant do anything other than hoping that my GPA and experience help me.

Of course, the final decision is yours to make, but why not submit with these scores, and your AADSAS application indicate that you'll be retaking the exam. You can also call the schools and tell them that you're aware of ur low PAT and ur planning on retaking the exam and boosting that score. I think they'd like an applicant who is willing to put in the extra effort to improve his/her situtation much better than someone who is gonna leave everything up to chance.

 

[cwebb4]

I have seen on ADEA book UPenn PAT score range between 15-26 and Columbia is between 15-25. So i felt maybe I have a chance too because there is nothing else that looks bad on my application. I am concerned about Harvard and I would probably take it off my list. As I mentioned I took DAT when I was in first year and just gave it for trial. As I didnt have any practice of PAT I ran out of time and couldn't even finish it so resulted in 15. I thought I will take DAT again but always remained busy in other courses and exams. Now I didn't want to delay my application and even few people told me that rest of my application can mitigate it. Do you mean to say that I dont have any chances at all because of PAT? I have already submitted my application but going to add more schools as I just applied at 2 schools. In that application I have just mentioned that I am submitting this DAT score. I can take DAT again maybe in the end of july but how can I change that on my application? Is it better idea to contact schools and tell them I am taking again if I dont have any chance at all.

I'm positive PAT 15 is URM students. Not average applicant. Other than your PAT, you have a shot at any school. Just retake the DAT and let the school know you are retaking it. Good luck!

 

[smile1234]

Of course, the final decision is yours to make, but why not submit with these scores, and your AADSAS application indicate that you'll be retaking the exam. You can also call the schools and tell them that you're aware of ur low PAT and ur planning on retaking the exam and boosting that score. I think they'd like an applicant who is willing to put in the extra effort to improve his/her situtation much better than someone who is gonna leave everything up to chance.

But will the schools agree to hold my application as I haven't indicated in my application that I am re-taking it and few schools have mentioned on their website that they won't hold for DAT.

 

[nze82]

But will the schools agree to hold my application as I haven't indicated in my application that I am re-taking it and few schools have mentioned on their website that they won't hold for DAT.

You can revise the DAT section of your application even after e-submitting it. Also, make sure you call the schools in order to inform them directly.

 

[smile1234]

You can revise the DAT section of your application even after e-submitting it. Also, make sure you call the schools in order to inform them directly.

Thanks a lot. I will do like that. I didn't know we can revise it. Now my question is if i manage really good score on DAT how late will be too late for me? I mean if I take DAT by the end of July or in the first half of August will that be fine or it will be too late?

 

[nze82]

Thanks a lot. I will do like that. I didn't know we can revise it. Now my question is if i manage really good score on DAT how late will be too late for me? I mean if I take DAT by the end of July or in the first half of August will that be fine or it will be too late?

I personally don't think Aug is too later, provided that you come out of the exam with some decent scores. I got a friend who got into UCLA last year, and she took her DAT in mid Aug. She came out with 21,22,20.

 

[smile1234]

I personally don't think Aug is too later, provided that you come out of the exam with some decent scores. I got a friend who got into UCLA last year, and she took her DAT in mid Aug. She came out with 21,22,20.

Thanks again for your honest advice. I have indicated on my application that I am taking DAT in July. Will this material be enough for DAT preparation-

Biology- Cliff's, Kaplan, Destroyer
GC- Kaplan, Destroyer
OC- Kaplan, destroyer
PAT- Crack DAT PAT
QR- Kaplan, Destroyer
Topscore.

 

[nze82]

Thanks again for your honest advice. I have indicated on my application that I am taking DAT in July. Will this material be enough for DAT preparation-

Biology- Cliff's, Kaplan, Destroyer
GC- Kaplan, Destroyer
OC- Kaplan, destroyer
PAT- Crack DAT PAT
QR- Kaplan, Destroyer
Topscore.

These are the resources I used and it seemed like they worked.
Good Luck👍

 

[smile1234]

These are the resources I used and it seemed like they worked.
Good Luck👍

Thanks!

 

[dentalaee]

This year I ended up with:
AA:22
TS:22
PA:20
My weak area last year was RC (18) and I think that hindered my chances significantly, since english is not my first language. This year I managed to bring the RC score up to 23.

Now, let me ask you how you manage to bring your RC score up so high.

Any advice?

 

[nze82]

Now, let me ask you how you manage to bring your RC score up so high.

Any advice?

This might sound stupid but it worked for me:
I tried the KAPLAN method and it was useless. I kept running out of time. So, I read about the "seek and destroy" method on this forum and I tried it. The first time I tried it I scored 61% on KAPLAN's practice test#1. I realized that my main problems were:
1)I wasn't reading fast enough.
2)I freaked out when I didn't find the answer to a question as I was reading along.

To address the first problem I bought a random book off amazon.com. It had nothing to do with science. I was sick of practicing with science articles, so I figured if I have to read something for one hour every night I might as well read about a topic that interests me. I love politics, so I bought a book about US foreign policy. Every night I timed myself and I tried to read as many pages as possible. I kept track of the number of pages every day to see whether or not my speed was improving. And sure enough, by the end of the 3rd week I was reading at a much faster paste. Then there was another issue. When I tried to read too fast, I forgot what I read on the previous page. To address this problem, I tried to make a short summary of each paragraph in my head and try to memorize the location of that paragraph in the body of text. Now, it's very important to memorize which sections of the text focus on what topics. Doing this along with summarizing paragraphs as you read along, allows you to have a general idea of how the entire text is constructed.
Then it was time to address the second problem. The seek and destroy method WILL NOT work if you freak out. Sometimes you read the first question and you can find its answer in the first paragraph. However, this is not always the case. Sometimes you have to read 6-7 paragraphs to find the answer to the first question. It is very important to keep your cool during such circumstances and continue reading at the same paste.
At the end, it all came down to lots and lots of practice!!

Hope this helps!

 

[Svart Aske]

PAT is probably the easiest section to improve upon; you just need to get familiar with the techniques (a few practice tests should be enough). You have a good shot at every school as long as you get the PAT score up.

 

[smile1234]

PAT is probably the easiest section to improve upon; you just need to get familiar with the techniques (a few practice tests should be enough). You have a good shot at every school as long as you get the PAT score up.

Thanks for the input.

 

[americanpierg]

Thanks for your advise but be sure yourself before advising someone.

OBVIOUSLY you're not looking for opinions and advice, you're just here for reassurance. If you can't take constructive criticism, why even come on here and ask for it?

OKay, you have above a 4.0 gpa and sgpa, great job. Don't come on here and rub it in everyone's face.

Hey guys, I have a 4.0 gpa, will I get into dental school?

Yes, your 15 PAT will hurt you at a lot of school. Suck it up. You came on here trying to gloat, and someone found a legitamate flaw in your "perfect" resume. Learn to be a better person, and good luck.

 

[smile1234]

OBVIOUSLY you're not looking for opinions and advice, you're just here for reassurance. If you can't take constructive criticism, why even come on here and ask for it?

OKay, you have above a 4.0 gpa and sgpa, great job. Don't come on here and rub it in everyone's face.

Hey guys, I have a 4.0 gpa, will I get into dental school?

Yes, your 15 PAT will hurt you at a lot of school. Suck it up. You came on here trying to gloat, and someone found a legitamate flaw in your "perfect" resume. Learn to be a better person, and good luck.

Thanks for your comments but what you are trying to prove passing these comments. Are you jealous of someone who has perfect resume or who has 4.0 GPA? I was here for getting second opinion and I initially didn't like the way this guy commented but before saying anything you should read all the messages as when this guy actually clarified what he meant I took all his comments positively. But I don't understand what you are trying to prove. I don't even understand why I am giving you justification. I just pray people like you learn how to be a good person and not to be jealous of others achievements.

 

[asidhu]

I know that a lot of schools have a min requirement of a 16 in all sections of the DAT to apply. you might want to check on that

 

[preOMFS]

See...the reason that I don't like to give people false hope is that I know how horrible it feels when you don't get in, when everyone around you told you "Oh! you'll be just fine." Last year I had AA:19 TS:20 PA:19. I asked my friends whether or not I should retake and everyone told me oh no, you'll definitely get in. I ended up getting two interviews and 7 rejections; whereas, I could've taken the exam again and end up with the same DAT scores that I earned this year. I don't want him/her to experience the same horrible feeling.

But you still got 2 interviews which tells me the problem was not in the DAT numbers, it was in the interview. Probably was still a good idea to retake because you will get more interviews this year.

At any rate, the OP should definitely retake the DAT to boost the PAT.

 

[nze82]

But you still got 2 interviews which tells me the problem was not in the DAT numbers, it was in the interview. Probably was still a good idea to retake because you will get more interviews this year.

At any rate, the OP should definitely retake the DAT to boost the PAT.

I don't know what the hell the problem was last yr!😕
I was peresonally happy about the interviews. I think the problem was that I took my DAT on July 27th last year. So, it took a while for schools to give me interviews. For example, UCSF gave me an interview on Dec 5th, when 60% of their class was already full, and UCLA gave me an interview in April for their alternate list. Neither schools rejected me, they both put me on waitlist. So, I guess you're probably right that my problem wasn't the DAT. Perhaps the timing was a bit off. I'm hoping things will work out this year.

 

[preOMFS]

What's your GPA by the way.

That's awesome that you got interviews at UCSF and UCLA. Kinda gives me hope with my new and improved DAT scores. 😀 I only got interviews at Midwestern and UNLV in 2007; waitlisted at UNLV. I had the same problem as you though: poor interview skills.

This year will be better though. 👍

 

[nze82]

What's your GPA by the way.

That's awesome that you got interviews at UCSF and UCLA. Kinda gives me hope with my new and improved DAT scores. 😀 I only got interviews at Midwestern and UNLV in 2007; waitlisted at UNLV. I had the same problem as you though: poor interview skills.

This year will be better though. 👍

My science GPA is 3.87. Like I said I don't think the problem is my interview skills; it was more about bad timing. I'm actually pretty confident about my interview skills...UCLA put me in the top percentile of their list. But I think they only take 1-2 people each year from their alternate list.

 

[smile1234]

My science GPA is 3.87. Like I said I don't think the problem is my interview skills; it was more about bad timing. I'm actually pretty confident about my interview skills...UCLA put me in the top percentile of their list. But I think they only take 1-2 people each year from their alternate list.

Are you California Resident?

 

[nze82]

Are you California Resident?

yea...why?

 

[smile1234]

I know that a lot of schools have a min requirement of a 16 in all sections of the DAT to apply. you might want to check on that

Thanks for your advise.

 

[smile1234]

yea...why?

Just asking out of curiosity as you are talking more about UCLA and UCSF and these schools are not very OOS friendly, though very good schools.

 

[dentalaee]

yea...why?

I can't believe you have not gotten in with those stats.

When was your app. completed last year? I'm talking about L.O.E, G.P.A verification and so on.

I'm in the similar boat as your at this point; I'm taking D.A.T in mid July.

 

[nze82]

I can't believe you have not gotten in with those stats.

When was your app. completed last year? I'm talking about L.O.E, G.P.A verification and so on.

I'm in the similar boat as your at this point; I'm taking D.A.T in mid July.

Well I submitted everything on June 1st, except my DAT scores. My application was mailed to my designated schools on July 14th along with LORs and Transcripts. I took my DAT sometime in late July, so I'm guessing my DAT scores were processed and sent out by mid August.
I called most of the schools that rejected me to find out what was the reason and get some feedback, and the only thing I got from them was that if I'm still interested in their school next year, I should apply early. So, I'm guessing the main reason for most my rejections was bad timing. Some other reasons that I can think of are as follows:
-I made the mistake of applying to few schools that take very few out-of-state applicants (example: Washington Uni, Houston Uni, and Colorado).
-Work completed at CC...My first two years of undergrad were completed at CC and then I transferred to UCLA. So, I'm guessing that along with my average DAT hurt me a bit too.
Other than that I really can't think of any reason for all my rejections.
I know my application wasn't weak, because otherwise schools like UCSF and UCLA wouldn't have invited me for interview.
So, I just hope to get in this year with my improved DAT scores!