My debt rant

[swamprat]

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Around this time every year when I can barely pay off my credit card just waiting for financial aid to deposit $ into my account so I can live again I start to think about the deep hole I've dug for myself and almost start to question if its worth it. Going straight into med school from college (where the parents payed for almost everything) I really didn't grasp the concept fully. Now seeing my friends with far less education start to save money and talk about buying things/investments I can only dream about I'm starting to feel a little down and worried. I'm probably looking at ~$280K before interest once I graduate from this hell hole and what will I have to show for it? A fancy MD? I was/still am one of those people that think you have to go into medicine because you love it/have a passion for it and not the money but I still would also like to live in a more than modest house and not have to decide if I want this one particular item or groceries this week. It just seems like I'll be living paycheck to paycheck (or in this case loan check to loan check) forever without ever having the opportunity to save and actually obtain some wealth.. I'm sure I am wrong, but I also don't want to wait till I'm 50..

Anyone else as concerned as I am? I know its hard to really care too much when its basically like monopoly money and no one is asking for it back yet..

And for residents with debt, how did you go about starting to pay it back? Defer through residency? Pay off interest? I am hoping I can pay off interest and start to hack away at the principle when I start residency but I don't even know if that's feasible given the salary of a resident.

 

[Shnurek]

There has never been a time in U.S. history where professional schools cost such an exorbitant amount of money.

All professionals have it bad in these tough times check out ours: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=912741

Or worse, the lawyers: http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/06/04/open-job-at-boston-law-firm-pays-just-10000-per-year/

At least you will have a higher income potential and after 5-10 years of practice as an attending you should be OK and have payed off all of your debt if you are smart.

 

[DocHawk117]

Yeah, I feel the SAME way. I decided it would be a great idea to calculate my debt last week, and I almost threw up haha. AAMC website has an Education Debt Manager pdf that describes all of the payment plans in great detail, and tells about how many people choose which path, to answer the questions in your last paragraph. Very informative, very depressing lol. When I complain to my parents or friends (not that I do this a lot), they have zero sympathy because they still think I will be rolling in the dough in 5 years.... FALSE. Check out the link: https://www.aamc.org/services/first/first_for_students/250722/survivalkit-enrolled.html

 

[ucladoc2b]

I feel your pain. Student loan debt sucks.

I suggest trying to minimize your debt, but against such high numbers, it's a bit pointless.

 

[cowme]

this is ridiculous. Make sacrifices and you will pay it off.

In residency, you should learn to live on 50-60k (Unless you live in an extremely expensive location---which is just idiotic if you are in 300k of debt). Even if you make crap money (170k) as an attending, as long as you live like you did during residency, you should be able to pay off 300K of debt in 3-4 years.

Don't have kids, don't buy a nice car, don't buy a house. Keep living like you make 50-60 a year and pay off your debt.

 

[ACE Rx]

I agree that student loans totally suck but for most of us is a necessary evil.

I can sympathize with how OP feels about having friends moving on with their lives while the rest of us are still in study / loans mode. Extremely delayed gratification but it'll be worth it in the end, right? 🙂 / 🙁?

 

[mimelim]

Around this time every year when I can barely pay off my credit card just waiting for financial aid to deposit $ into my account so I can live again I start to think about the deep hole I've dug for myself and almost start to question if its worth it. Going straight into med school from college (where the parents payed for almost everything) I really didn't grasp the concept fully. Now seeing my friends with far less education start to save money and talk about buying things/investments I can only dream about I'm starting to feel a little down and worried. I'm probably looking at ~$280K before interest once I graduate from this hell hole and what will I have to show for it? A fancy MD? I was/still am one of those people that think you have to go into medicine because you love it/have a passion for it and not the money but I still would also like to live in a more than modest house and not have to decide if I want this one particular item or groceries this week. It just seems like I'll be living paycheck to paycheck (or in this case loan check to loan check) forever without ever having the opportunity to save and actually obtain some wealth.. I'm sure I am wrong, but I also don't want to wait till I'm 50..

Anyone else as concerned as I am? I know its hard to really care too much when its basically like monopoly money and no one is asking for it back yet..

And for residents with debt, how did you go about starting to pay it back? Defer through residency? Pay off interest? I am hoping I can pay off interest and start to hack away at the principle when I start residency but I don't even know if that's feasible given the salary of a resident.

Before I start this post, go talk to your financial aid adviser at your school or get a financial adviser who specializes in professional student loans (I won't mention any names, but a quick google search will yield several). They are by far the best resource for you on this topic and you certainly are not alone and will be able to counsel you.

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I am currently waiting for my intern year to start in a week, 5-7 year program, more likely 7 than 5. I graduated with a 240k+ in loan debt, plus my wife's undergrad + law school debt (still in school). It is daunting for sure, but you will make it through like the rest of us. I remember 6+ years ago when I first considered going to medical school and I was told by a family member in the financial sector that it was unlikely that I would get rich going to medical school, but I would never be out of work and I would never be uncomfortable with how I'm living. I didn't appreciate that until recently when I actually planned out our finances for the next 15 years (in the context of buying a condo).

There are numerous loan repayment programs as well as debt forgiveness programs for primary care and public service. Look into these, talk to some advisers, make a plan. You will find that things are never as bleak as they look 🙂

 

[Perrotfish]

You're not the first graduate student not to think about how much debt you're racking up. Just be grateful that you're in one of the very few perfessions that consistently makes enough money to pay off the debt.

 

[Slack3r]

this is ridiculous. Make sacrifices and you will pay it off.

In residency, you should learn to live on 50-60k (Unless you live in an extremely expensive location---which is just idiotic if you are in 300k of debt). Even if you make crap money (170k) as an attending, as long as you live like you did during residency, you should be able to pay off 300K of debt in 3-4 years.

Don't have kids, don't buy a nice car, don't buy a house. Keep living like you make 50-60 a year and pay off your debt.

+1

Oh, and marry a professional. That extra six-figure income will help during residency 😉

 

[Medstudentquest]

Around this time every year when I can barely pay off my credit card just waiting for financial aid to deposit $ into my account so I can live again I start to think about the deep hole I've dug for myself and almost start to question if its worth it. Going straight into med school from college (where the parents payed for almost everything) I really didn't grasp the concept fully. Now seeing my friends with far less education start to save money and talk about buying things/investments I can only dream about I'm starting to feel a little down and worried. I'm probably looking at ~$280K before interest once I graduate from this hell hole and what will I have to show for it? A fancy MD? I was/still am one of those people that think you have to go into medicine because you love it/have a passion for it and not the money but I still would also like to live in a more than modest house and not have to decide if I want this one particular item or groceries this week. It just seems like I'll be living paycheck to paycheck (or in this case loan check to loan check) forever without ever having the opportunity to save and actually obtain some wealth.. I'm sure I am wrong, but I also don't want to wait till I'm 50..

Anyone else as concerned as I am? I know its hard to really care too much when its basically like monopoly money and no one is asking for it back yet..

And for residents with debt, how did you go about starting to pay it back? Defer through residency? Pay off interest? I am hoping I can pay off interest and start to hack away at the principle when I start residency but I don't even know if that's feasible given the salary of a resident.

Dude, you should be able to pay it off with an attending salary. You can also do the gov program where your payment is income based and any left over amount is forgiven after 10 years I think it is now.

Also I could never understand how people get into this much debt. When I graduated, I graduated with less than 120k of debt, and that included a master's program as well. I paid it off very soon too, and saved myself like 60-70k in interest. How the heck did you rack up 280k of debt?

I mean given that I had a full ride for undergrad but still. Do you live extravagantly? I lived at home during med school. I never understood why those people who lived close to their parents in med school did not live with them. As long as you have a good relationship with them, it's a pretty decent situation. You don't pay rent/utilities, food, etc. Why live in a fancy apt. shelling out a ton of $$$ when you dont have to? I realize it's not possible for everyone but many students live extravagantly during med school and don't think of the financial consequences of being strapped with a ton of debt.

 

[ucladoc2b]

Dude, you should be able to pay it off with an attending salary. You can also do the gov program where your payment is income based and any left over amount is forgiven after 10 years I think it is now.

Also I could never understand how people get into this much debt. When I graduated, I graduated with less than 120k of debt, and that included a master's program as well. I paid it off very soon too, and saved myself like 60-70k in interest. How the heck did you rack up 280k of debt?

I mean given that I had a full ride for undergrad but still. Do you live extravagantly? I lived at home during med school. I never understood why those people who lived close to their parents in med school did not live with them. As long as you have a good relationship with them, it's a pretty decent situation. You don't pay rent/utilities, food, etc. Why live in a fancy apt. shelling out a ton of $$$ when you dont have to? I realize it's not possible for everyone but many students live extravagantly during med school and don't think of the financial consequences of being strapped with a ton of debt.

Some schools charge upwards of $50k a year for tuition alone. Then there are mandatory "fees" that can add on several thousand dollars. Tack on some basic living expenses, and accumulating $300k of debt is pretty easy.

 

[dr zaius]

Yea OP. Just go back in time and get a scholarship. Also be sure to go to medical school in your home town so you can live with your parents. Problem solved.

 

[operaman]

If you just finished M2 and went straight from undergrad to med school, then the odds are good that your college friends 2 years into the work force are not as well off as you might think. I don't know your background with finance and investment, but I'm guessing that you might hear your friends talking about investments without fully understanding what they're talking about and you assume that this means they're somehow better off financially than they really are.

Agree that things are probably much better than you think. Just be smart with your money and make a plan for the long term. Sure, you will probably be in your 40s before you amass a decent amount of wealth, but so will your college friends and just about anyone else save for the lucky few who hit the bigtime. Actually, your friends will probably not be as well off as you in a few years assuming they have average incomes for college grads. If they're all CEOs, well...

 

[The Imprisoned]

Dude, you should be able to pay it off with an attending salary. You can also do the gov program where your payment is income based and any left over amount is forgiven after 10 years I think it is now.

Also I could never understand how people get into this much debt. When I graduated, I graduated with less than 120k of debt, and that included a master's program as well. I paid it off very soon too, and saved myself like 60-70k in interest. How the heck did you rack up 280k of debt?

I mean given that I had a full ride for undergrad but still. Do you live extravagantly? I lived at home during med school. I never understood why those people who lived close to their parents in med school did not live with them. As long as you have a good relationship with them, it's a pretty decent situation. You don't pay rent/utilities, food, etc. Why live in a fancy apt. shelling out a ton of $$$ when you dont have to? I realize it's not possible for everyone but many students live extravagantly during med school and don't think of the financial consequences of being strapped with a ton of debt.

Truly 280k isn't hard when a school has a COA of 70k + per year...


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile app

 

[MinitorV]

Truly 280k isn't hard when a school has a COA of 70k + per year...


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile app

+1
Plus now all loans are unsubsidized.
210k turns into 250k ect...

 

[mimelim]

I mean given that I had a full ride for undergrad but still. Do you live extravagantly? I lived at home during med school. I never understood why those people who lived close to their parents in med school did not live with them. As long as you have a good relationship with them, it's a pretty decent situation. You don't pay rent/utilities, food, etc. Why live in a fancy apt. shelling out a ton of $$$ when you dont have to? I realize it's not possible for everyone but many students live extravagantly during med school and don't think of the financial consequences of being strapped with a ton of debt.

I lived in a comfortable, but small 2br/1bath apartment for all of undergrad/medical school, always had a roommate. Never paid more than $450 for my half of rent/bills. Never ate out, except when I had to being at the hospital. I had 240k+ in debt after 4 years. The vast majority of my classmates are in the same situations. The notable exceptions are the people who's parents paid their tuition.

I agree that living at home is a great thing. And if my parents didn't live 1000+ miles from my medical school, I would likely have lived at home. I can't think of a single person who didn't live with their parents during medical school if they could. Medical education is expensive, it has very little if anything to do with extravagant life styles.

 

[Perrotfish]

I mean given that I had a full ride for undergrad but still. Do you live extravagantly? I lived at home during med school. I never understood why those people who lived close to their parents in med school did not live with them. As long as you have a good relationship with them, it's a pretty decent situation. You don't pay rent/utilities, food, etc. Why live in a fancy apt. shelling out a ton of $$$ when you dont have to?

Because your living expenses are a very small fraction of the total debt you accumulate and yet have a disproportionate impact on your psychological wellbeing during the 10+ years you are unpaid/underpaid during your medical training. Not living with your parents is pretty high on the list if you want to live a sane, adult life. Maybe minimizing living expenses makes sense if you go to a sstate shool and have a relatively low debt to start with, but is the difference between 280K and 300K in debt really enough of a reason to live with your parents for 4 years in your late 20s?

I've personally never understood how students who thoughtlessly took out loans for 280K in tuition and fees (often tossing on an extra 50K for an MPH of really dubious value) could be so consistently cheap when you wanted to go out for a meal.

 

[mimelim]

I've personally never understood how students who thoughtlessly took out loans for 280K in tuition and fees (often tossing on an extra 50K for an MPH of really dubious value) could be so consistently cheap when you wanted to go out for a meal.

Meh, most people take out loans because they need it to go to school, but when they have the chance they save where they can. We eat cheap because we don't think our quality of life drops much and savings over the time course of 4 years of undergrad + 4 years of medical school + 7 years of residency is actually quite considerable. I'll splurg on things that matter to me like my rock climbing gym membership and save my pennies where it doesn't really make a difference to me 🙂 But to each their own 🙂

 

[greg1184]

Yeah the debt is definitely concerning. I had tuition remission in undergrad and I lived at home and my debt is still 170,000+. If I get into a residency at my home area I will stay at home and start to pay it off. I have very little family left, and my relationship is fine. If I match elsewhere, obviously I would apply for forbearence and pay it off later when I am an attending. I have other bills to pay as well.

 

[Shnurek]

How the heck did you rack up 280k of debt?

Ask the federal government why they want students to take out their loans and hand them over so easily. Anyone in any program can get their education covered by loans. Then the schools say hmmmm these dumb students don't know what they are really taking out so let's keep racking up the tuition as long as the flow of financially ignorant students doesn't end!

I know why. Those juicy 6.8 and 7.9 percent unsubsidized loans just fund more parties for the bureaucrats ^^ or wars, whatever they feel like.

The only way tuition is going to go down is if the government cuts easy loan access. The government is artificially issuing credit to thousands of students amassing currently over one trillion dollars.

 

[swamprat]

this is ridiculous. Make sacrifices and you will pay it off.

In residency, you should learn to live on 50-60k (Unless you live in an extremely expensive location---which is just idiotic if you are in 300k of debt). Even if you make crap money (170k) as an attending, as long as you live like you did during residency, you should be able to pay off 300K of debt in 3-4 years.

Don't have kids, don't buy a nice car, don't buy a house. Keep living like you make 50-60 a year and pay off your debt.

Yes I know I'll be able to pay it off, but just realize that by you telling me not to have kids, a house, a nice car - all this hard work becoming a doctor and the debt is hindering me from these things? I can't have kids? I'm not really taking you literally and I know the deal with how I'm going to have to live after I graduate, it just sucks.

Dude, you should be able to pay it off with an attending salary. You can also do the gov program where your payment is income based and any left over amount is forgiven after 10 years I think it is now.

Also I could never understand how people get into this much debt. When I graduated, I graduated with less than 120k of debt, and that included a master's program as well. I paid it off very soon too, and saved myself like 60-70k in interest. How the heck did you rack up 280k of debt?

I mean given that I had a full ride for undergrad but still. Do you live extravagantly? I lived at home during med school. I never understood why those people who lived close to their parents in med school did not live with them. As long as you have a good relationship with them, it's a pretty decent situation. You don't pay rent/utilities, food, etc. Why live in a fancy apt. shelling out a ton of $$$ when you dont have to? I realize it's not possible for everyone but many students live extravagantly during med school and don't think of the financial consequences of being strapped with a ton of debt.

I haven't yet its my rough estimate I still have 2 more years. Tuition is about ~50k x 4 = 200k. Living expenses, ~20k a year.. thats rent, car insurance, food, everything rlly except my cell phone bill.. Yeah.. I'm popping bottles every weekend at the club and hanging out in my penthouse apartment 🙄

Oh and it must be nice to go to med school at home and live off your parents.. not everyone has that luxary.

 

[Shnurek]

It could be worse. My ex had $100,000 in loans from art school and was living on Park Avenue. She couldn't find a job doing anything else except retail. Some people....

 

[Perrotfish]

Yes I know I'll be able to pay it off, but just realize that by you telling me not to have kids, a house, a nice car - all this hard work becoming a doctor and the debt is hindering me from these things? I can't have kids? I'm not really taking you literally and I know the deal with how I'm going to have to live after I graduate, it just sucks.
.

Most people manage to have kids in residency and buy a good house and vehicles after. You can live like a residents for an extra 3-4 years to pay off the debt if you're super debt avers but generally if you're in a low paying specialty with high debt you deal with it by paying off the loan like a mortgage: over decades. You still have way more than most Americans left over for living.

 

[Perrotfish]

It could be worse. My ex had $100,000 in loans from art school and was living on Park Avenue. She couldn't find a job doing anything else except retail. Some people....

The fact that the government loans these people this kind of money to do this kind if crap is really horrifying. The sheltered/stupid 18 year old isn't the one who is supposed to know better, the lender is.

 

[NOsquid]

As long as the IBR and PSLF thing works out it's not too bad. Fingers crossed.

 

[Shnurek]

The fact that the government loans these people this kind of money to do this kind if crap is really horrifying. The sheltered/stupid 18 year old isn't the one who is supposed to know better, the lender is.

Very true. American capitalism at its finest. Survival of the most financially savvy. The type of people that go into finance prey on people like this. They adore them. They seek them out and feed off of them every monthly payment like vampires bats lusting for blood.

 

[JackShephard MD]

As long as the IBR and PSLF thing works out it's not too bad. Fingers crossed.

Please tell me you didn't buy that story.

 

[Perrotfish]

Very true. American capitalism at its finest. Survival of the most financially savvy. The type of people that go into finance prey on people like this. They adore them. They seek them out and feed off of them every monthly payment like vampires bats lusting for blood.

They don't when the government isn't involved. No one would loan a teenager hundreds of thousands of dollars to, for example, start an asinine small business. If that girl had gone to the bank and asked to open an art gallery, rather than to go to art school, there's no chance she would have gotten a 100K loan.

Honestly the government wouldn't lend this kind of money to teenagers either, except that they have excused themselves from playing by the rules that they reasonably and justly expect everyone everyone else to play by. Every private borrower has the right to pursue bankruptcy, which means that every private lendor is ultimately responsible for vetting their loans if they have any interest in getting their money back. When federal government got rid of bankruptcy protection for their loans, they took away their only incentive to actually underwrite their loans. A loan without the option of bankruptcy is usery.

 

[SteinUmStein]

Please tell me you didn't buy that story.

It's unfortunate that people are actually counting on those programs. We'll be lucky if they're around in 5 years, let alone 10 or more.

 

[Shnurek]

They don't when the government isn't involved. No one would loan a teenager hundreds of thousands of dollars to, for example, start an asinine small business. If that girl had gone to the bank and asked to open an art gallery, rather than to go to art school, there's no chance she would have gotten a 100K loan.

Honestly the government wouldn't lend this kind of money to teenagers either, except that they have excused themselves from playing by the rules that they reasonably and justly expect everyone everyone else to play by. Every private borrower has the right to pursue bankruptcy, which means that every private lendor is ultimately responsible for vetting their loans if they have any interest in getting their money back. When federal government got rid of bankruptcy protection for their loans, they took away their only incentive to actually underwrite their loans. A loan without the option of bankruptcy is usery.

Very well said. Uncle Sam, Goldman Sachs and the major corporations/businesses all have their hands in each others back pockets. It has been like this and it will be. Except who governs the government? Ron Paul realized this many decades ago. The government is overreaching its powers through the use of modern technology. Sometimes the best action is no action and the government should be the thing that is cut. They are abusing their powers and are not held to the same standards as the general public. The constitutional checks and balances that were set in place during the time of this country's creation are no longer as balanced. Occupy wallstreet was just the tip of the iceberg to what is coming if this type of usery continues.

 

[DrBowtie]

It's unfortunate that people are actually counting on those programs. We'll be lucky if they're around in 5 years, let alone 10 or more.

Not to mention its pretty much the complete opposite of personal responsibility.
You signed the promissory note, not the American tax payer.

 

[tiedyeddog]

The fact that the government loans these people this kind of money to do this kind if crap is really horrifying. The sheltered/stupid 18 year old isn't the one who is supposed to know better, the lender is.

Yeah, this is the kind of loans that need to be stopped from being given out. I think the government needs to do a analysis of ALL graduates in each major and see if those in each major end up making money commiserate with their loans. Or working in a job related to their degree. Or have a job at all?

I am all for communications and liberal arts degrees, but we need to limit how many of them we fund every year if the government is going to end up eating the debt later down the line, which probably will end up occurring sooner than later.....

 

[JackShephard MD]

Not to mention its pretty much the complete opposite of personal responsibility.
You signed the promissory note, not the American tax payer.

Agreed. Although I can understand how people can be upset borrowing 300k @ 8% - tuition is ridiculous, especially with talks of cutting doctor's salaries significantly.

Yet, there's absolutely zero chance the government is going to pay for doctor's loans 10 years from now.

 

[cowme]

Yes I know I'll be able to pay it off, but just realize that by you telling me not to have kids, a house, a nice car - all this hard work becoming a doctor and the debt is hindering me from these things? I can't have kids? I'm not really taking you literally and I know the deal with how I'm going to have to live after I graduate, it just sucks.


.

I was giving you a worst possible scenario with a family medicine residency. If you are the average physician, and marry a person with a job, you will make a combined income of double what I said. You can have kids, and buy a house, and do all that other stuff.

But you can't have it all. If you expect to buy a nice house, car and have 5 children when you are 300k in debt, do not go into a low paying field.

 

[Perrotfish]

Yeah, this is the kind of loans that need to be stopped from being given out. I think the government needs to do a analysis of ALL graduates in each major and see if those in each major end up making money commiserate with their loans. Or working in a job related to their degree. Or have a job at all?

I am all for communications and liberal arts degrees, but we need to limit how many of them we fund every year if the government is going to end up eating the debt later down the line, which probably will end up occurring sooner than later.....

The issue is that he government DOESN'T eat the debt. If you take away the option of bankruptcy you will get lenders money back. The issue is the injustice. One of the first things we did when we founded the republic was to get rid of debtors prisons and life long debt bondage and, only a little later, declare the right to bankruptcy was universal. Now we're going back on tqht most basic financial right.

Student loans are a shadow tax. The government isn't making a bad decision for itself, its engaging in usury at our expense.

 

[painmd87]

It's unfortunate that people are actually counting on those programs. We'll be lucky if they're around in 5 years, let alone 10 or more.

👍👍

Be wary of any program that says you must make 120 consecutive payments BEFORE applying, and continue making those payments while your application is considered. Could be a month, could be a year before it's finalized. And you might not even be approved. And to compensate you for your trouble, they took the courtesy of capitalizing all the interest you haven't been paying for the last decade. Enjoy!

Want to see the application? It will be prepared in 2017, when the first eligible graduates can consider applying. Just trust us!

I'm highly skeptical of PSLF. It reminds me of the scams where you get sent a $10,000 check for your car, but you have to ship it and refund $5,000 back. When the bank realizes the $10k check was bad, you're on the hook for the whole thing, plus the bad check fee, and your car is halfway to India.

Live cheap, question your purchases, and include tuition repayment in your job negotiations after residency. If PSLF actually works out, then bravo to the people who had the guts to take such a risk.

P.S. There are significant tax implications regarding forgiven debt that you should also consider re: PSLF.

 

[Lbgem]

I was giving you a worst possible scenario with a family medicine residency. If you are the average physician, and marry a person with a job, you will make a combined income of double what I said. You can have kids, and buy a house, and do all that other stuff.

But you can't have it all. If you expect to buy a nice house, car and have 5 children when you are 300k in debt, do not go into a low paying field.

+1 to your posts on this thread sir. Appreciate the advice.

 

[ucladoc2b]

👍👍


P.S. There are significant tax implications regarding forgiven debt that you should also consider re: PSLF.

At least for now, the loan forgiveness is not taxable.

 

[sam500]

It's unfortunate that people are actually counting on those programs. We'll be lucky if they're around in 5 years, let alone 10 or more.

I called the governing body responsible for validating employers as part of the PSLF. They confirmed that you'd be grandfathered in baring any policy changes.

It only needs to last 4 years for me to get in.

 

[DrBowtie]

I called the governing body responsible for validating employers as part of the PSLF. They confirmed that you'd be grandfathered in baring any policy changes.

It only needs to last 4 years for me to get in.

You apply for the forgiveness after 120 payments.

 

[JackShephard MD]

I called the governing body responsible for validating employers as part of the PSLF. They confirmed that you'd be grandfathered in baring any policy changes.

It only needs to last 4 years for me to get in.

as above poster said, it only needs to last for 14 years or 168 months.

It appears that doctors will be making less in the future, we're going bankrupt. It's very difficult for a government policy maker or the public to hold these two beliefs at the same time: "Doctors earn too much" and "we should pay off doctor's student loans". The stroke of a pen can eliminate the program 12 years from now, and your only advocates will be the few enrolled in the program.

Saying something over the phone (or even email) doesn't mean much. You need it in writing, a contract, and with the $ you're dealing with, best to have a legal professional look it over. But the government is too smart, they always leave themselves loop holes. Look at Social Security...

Enroll in the program, but don't change spending habits/career plans or have great faith in it working out.

 

[sam500]

I distrust the government as much as the next person (probably more than most), but I doubt this will be yanked anytime soon.

In regards to opting into the plan. You do that as soon as you start making qualified payments by submitting an employment qualification form (see link):
http://studentaid.ed.gov/students/attachments/siteresources/ECF_PSLF.pdf

Their contact number is on the bottom. Call them up and ask about what happens after 120 payments and what the implications of the PSLF being revoked would be. I did. They're pretty forthcoming.

Enroll in the program, but don't change spending habits/career plans or have great faith in it working out.

I agree.

 

[Lokhtar]

Could be worse, you could have law school debt.

 

[sam500]

Could be worse, you could have law school debt.

And then you'd be a lawyer.... ugggh.

There's an interesting short story in Atul Gawande's "Better" about a bloke who got bored of Orthopedics and took up flying airplanes in his spare time. He got bored of that, so he decided to go to law school at nights for fun. He liked that so much, he decided to enter malpractice and sue the pants off his former peers... yeah....

 

[DrBowtie]

I distrust the government as much as the next person (probably more than most), but I doubt this will be yanked anytime soon.

In regards to opting into the plan. You do that as soon as you start making qualified payments by submitting an employment qualification form (see link):
http://studentaid.ed.gov/students/attachments/siteresources/ECF_PSLF.pdf

Their contact number is on the bottom. Call them up and ask about what happens after 120 payments and what the implications of the PSLF being revoked would be. I did. They're pretty forthcoming.



I agree.

If you could point where in the form this states it is an enrollment form, I'd like to see it.
The only thing this does is save you from having to track down information from previous employers and gets your job counted as public service as you go along.

It is non binding for both parties.

 

[sam500]

If you could point where in the form this states it is an enrollment form, I'd like to see it.
The only thing this does is save you from having to track down information from previous employers and gets your job counted as public service as you go along.

It is non binding for both parties.

Call them up and ask how the program works and then post here and tell us. All else is speculation.

 

[DrBowtie]

From page 3:
"You may not apply for PSLF until after you have met the eligibility requirements listed above. Since only qualifying payments made after October 1, 2007, while employed at a qualifying public service organization may be counted toward the required 120 payments, and borrowers may not apply for loan forgiveness until after they have made all 120 payments, the earliest date that any borrower will be eligible to apply for and receive loan forgiveness is October 2017. A PSLF Application will be made available to the public before October 2017.

 

[sam500]

From page 3:
"You may not apply for PSLF until after you have met the eligibility requirements listed above. Since only qualifying payments made after October 1, 2007, while employed at a qualifying public service organization may be counted toward the required 120 payments, and borrowers may not apply for loan forgiveness until after they have made all 120 payments, the earliest date that any borrower will be eligible to apply for and receive loan forgiveness is October 2017. A PSLF Application will be made available to the public before October 2017.

Yes. But would confirming qualified payments through the program be considered "enrolling" in the program? They told me on the phone it would. Maybe they didn't understand my question. But I was specifically grilling them on being "grandfathered" into such a payment plan. Who knows. I'm sure a hell of a lot of people would be upset if this program disappeared.

 

[DrBowtie]

Yes. But would confirming qualified payments through the program be considered "enrolling" in the program? They told me on the phone it would. Maybe they didn't understand my question. But I was specifically grilling them on being "grandfathered" into such a payment plan. Who knows. I'm sure a hell of a lot of people would be upset if this program disappeared.

Our financial aid lady was pretty clear there is no program. You don't select PSLF at any point for repayment plan or anything.

You apply as was stated on the form AFTER 120 payments have been made.

I also don't think that the legislators have realized the loophole that medical students being able to be included has created and won't until they start seeing students discharging 2-300k each.

 

[JackShephard MD]

From page 3:
"You may not apply for PSLF until after you have met the eligibility requirements listed above. Since only qualifying payments made after October 1, 2007, while employed at a qualifying public service organization may be counted toward the required 120 payments, and borrowers may not apply for loan forgiveness until after they have made all 120 payments, the earliest date that any borrower will be eligible to apply for and receive loan forgiveness is October 2017. A PSLF Application will be made available to the public before October 2017.after the government gets their **** together and we don't go over our budget for healthcare expenditures, in other words: never

Fixed.

Yes. But would confirming qualified payments through the program be considered "enrolling" in the program? They told me on the phone it would. Maybe they didn't understand my question. But I was specifically grilling them on being "grandfathered" into such a payment plan. Who knows. I'm sure a hell of a lot of people would be upset if this program disappeared.

No contract, no guarantee. Welcome to the real world.

Our financial aid lady was pretty clear there is no program. You don't select PSLF at any point for repayment plan or anything.

You apply as was stated on the form AFTER 120 payments have been made.

I also don't think that the legislators have realized the loophole that medical students being able to be included has created and won't until they start seeing students discharging 2-300k each.

The second they start discharging 2-300k is when they will release a statement saying, "the program is bankrupt and we need reform." Like I said before, see Social Security.