Oct 14, 2020
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My blood was boiling reading this article. Another podiatrist telling you to find a job that makes you happy and to slave away for a 70-100k base contract. OH WOW YOU CAN TAKE A $70k BASE AND MAKE $6k MORE THAN THE $100k BASE IF YOU PLAY YOUR CARDS RIGHT COME BONUS TIME?!?!?!

God I ...love THIS profession
 
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Utvolsdpm

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My blood was boiling reading this article. Another podiatrist telling you to find a job that makes you happy and to slave away for a 70-100k base contract. OH WOW YOU CAN TAKE A $70k BASE AND MAKE $6k MORE THAN THE $100k BASE IF YOU PLAY YOUR CARDS RIGHT COME BONUS TIME?!?!?!

God I ...love THIS profession
There was a recent Facebook podiatry group post where someone was asking what’s a fair contract for an associate (they were looking to hire in Michigan). They stated new graduates are entitled expecting more than 60-70k per year out of residency. I had to laugh as some resident salaries are in that range already.
 
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CutsWithFury

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There was a recent Facebook podiatry group post where someone was asking what’s a fair contract for an associate (they were looking to hire in Michigan). They stated new graduates are entitled expecting more than 60-70k per year out of residency. I had to laugh as some resident salaries are in that range already.
I saw that too. Disgraceful. This profession is awful. Lose your shirt starting your own practice rather than work for a another podiatrist who can only trim toenails and do hammertoes
 
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CutsWithFury

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My blood was boiling reading this article. Another podiatrist telling you to find a job that makes you happy and to slave away for a 70-100k base contract. OH WOW YOU CAN TAKE A $70k BASE AND MAKE $6k MORE THAN THE $100k BASE IF YOU PLAY YOUR CARDS RIGHT COME BONUS TIME?!?!?!

God I ...love THIS profession
Podiatrists do not know what is fair and what they are actually worth. The profession has ingrained that residents should be thankful for 75-100K base salaries and weak bonus structures. The profession built itself on manipulating and dumping on younger podiatrists.

Old practice owners dump on their associates to make millions

Residency directors at weak programs abuse their residents as free labor and make them do everything for them. While they fraudulently bill for care they were not present for

Fellowship directors abuse their fellows while they travel throughout the country lecturing. Billing for care they were no present for.

Every facet of this profession there is some kind of manipulation or fraud going on to just get ahead and make an extra buck without lifting a finger

Students have no idea. I was there once. I was very optimistic about my career and future until I got into practice and really saw these attendings (who I admired) for who they really are. They are your friend and mentor until you set up shop in their area and they will do what they can to make your life miserable.
 
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CutsWithFury

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Which fb group?
IPED group on Facebook. The poster took it down once people with real jobs posted and told the poster how ridiculous their offer was. There was another TFP podiatrist on the thread who commented that residents feel "entitled" these days and insinuated they didn't deserve a 100K starting salary. I spit out my morning coffee. That is how delusional this profession is. The poster and the other DPM were not old either. Were out in practice for 10 years or less. It is scary out there
 

josebiwasabi

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I met up with one of my coresidents during a fellowship course and we discussed how the job search was going. At that time we had just found out that both of our hospital-employed gigs had fallen through due to funding and we were both scrambling looking for jobs.

He was originally from FL and a PP guy near his hometown wanted to interview him but was sketchy about compensation until he interviewed in person. Well during the interview he found out that the base salary was 75k, followed by the worst incentive structure I have ever heard seen in my life. There was an actual cap to what you could take home, and if you did the math you maxed out at $125k. Of course, the owner tried to frame it as a BONUS (worst terminology ever). Needless to say he left that interview ASAP and never contacted that guy again. The good news is that my friend eventually found a hospital position and is fairly compensated.

Moral of the story is that indeed most TFP PP guys are sketchy, and if they aren't upfront about basics of compensation, don't waste your time (and money) interviewing.
 
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CutsWithFury

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I met up with one of my coresidents during a fellowship course and we discussed how the job search was going. At that time we had just found out that both of our hospital-employed gigs had fallen through due to funding and we were both scrambling looking for jobs.

He was originally from FL and a PP guy near his hometown wanted to interview him but was sketchy about compensation until he interviewed in person. Well during the interview he found out that the base salary was 75k, followed by the worst incentive structure I have ever heard seen in my life. There was an actual cap to what you could take home, and if you did the math you maxed out at $125k. Of course, the owner tried to frame it as a BONUS (worst terminology ever). Needless to say he left that interview ASAP and never contacted that guy again. The good news is that my friend eventually found a hospital position and is fairly compensated.

Moral of the story is that indeed most TFP PP guys are sketchy, and if they aren't upfront about basics of compensation, don't waste your time (and money) interviewing.
the problem is the majority of this profession are private practice opportunities. There are only so many hospital gigs to go around. There should be more. There could be more if residents were more pro-active in the job search. Even if they have to sacrifice hard earned skills just to be there (can't do ankle fractures anymore because ortho at hospital won't allow it for example).
 
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Knowing what I know now (and having my own personal experiences), I would never consider working as an associate again. There ARE hospital jobs out there, but you have to look for them and do some digging. People might consider working as an associate due to geographical limitations, but I would suggest trying to open your own practice in that situation first if possible. Another issue with these associate contracts is the non-compete, so if you have an aggressive non-compete AND a geographical restriction... well that ain't good.

You CAN do well in the profession, but you need to commit to the fact that you will need to move ANYWHERE to find that good job. If you are a pre-pod or someone considering podiatry, you need to make that commitment before you even think of sending your application in to AACPMAS, or commit to opening up your own practice after you graduate if you MUST live in that specific city/area/region.
 
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Aug 26, 2020
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A guy once told me his associate left because her husband was angry there wasn't a Lexus dealership in town to service his car. They were like 30 minutes from a rich Dallas suburb. God I ...love this profession.
Lol with this answer not only does he avoid bashing a colleague in small profession, he implies you will be able to afford a Lexus on the meager salary you would be paid.
 
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dtrack22

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IPED... a worthless podiatry “club”... My opinion at least.

It's not much of a "club," anyone can join and there is often times very useful information for DPMs who are new to practice or starting their own practice for the first time. Of course the private practice podiatrists and their office managers (aka spouses lol) who are members are generally clueless when it comes to MSG/Hospital jobs, they use some awful EMRs, talk about some crazy products/treatments, etc. But you'll find good billing/coding info, DME and orthotic vendors, staff policy/procedures, etc.

It's no different than this board. Plenty of garbage information on here. You have to sift through the crap everywhere.
 
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G0dFather

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Old practice owners dump on their associates to make millions

Residency directors at weak programs abuse their residents as free labor and make them do everything for them. While they fraudulently bill for care they were not present for

Fellowship directors abuse their fellows while they travel throughout the country lecturing. Billing for care they were no present for.

Every facet of this profession there is some kind of manipulation or fraud going on to just get ahead and make an extra buck without lifting a finger

Students have no idea. I was there once. I was very optimistic about my career and future until I got into practice and really saw these attendings (who I admired) for who they really are. They are your friend and mentor until you set up shop in their area and they will do what they can to make your life miserable.

wow man, you nailed it all in a few sentences i have seen this play out myself as well, thats why im a big proponent of having your own or your share .... its so sad what they have done to podiatry
 

heybrother

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New thing for associates to add to their contracts (jk, good luck with that) - I will see nail patients as I see fit and in general at 90 days, not sooner.
 
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ExperiencedDPM

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Nov 23, 2015
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IPED group on Facebook. The poster took it down once people with real jobs posted and told the poster how ridiculous their offer was. There was another TFP podiatrist on the thread who commented that residents feel "entitled" these days and insinuated they didn't deserve a 100K starting salary. I spit out my morning coffee. That is how delusional this profession is. The poster and the other DPM were not old either. Were out in practice for 10 years or less. It is scary out there
IPED ? Isn’t that Ornstein’s creation after he was exiled from the Practice Management Academy he started?

Don’t get me started on him. If you want to make money with the advice from that group, get ready to sell, sell and sell your patients all kinds of crap.

Please don’t believe you’ll learn anything ethical from that group.

Look at their board of directors/trustees. A impressive list of DPMs NO ONE EVER HEARD of ith Hal Ornstein at the bottom of the page.

Not a group I’d recommend. Unless you want to up your sleaze factor a few notches.

By the way, isn’t Ornstein the guy who stepped to the plate during the residency shortage to offer preceptorships for a little over MINIMUM wage?

Have them work in your office doing your scut work under the premise of a preceptorship for slave wages.

Isn’t that altruistic?
 
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Mar 26, 2020
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By the way, isn’t Ornstein the guy who stepped to the plate during the residency shortage to offer preceptorships for a little over MINIMUM wage?

Have them work in your office doing your scut work under the premise of a preceptorship for slave wages.

Isn’t that altruistic?

For the record I agree with you but to play devil's advocate, what do you think he should have done? The shortage situation was absolutely awful, but it wasn't Dr. Ornstein's fault. Should he just have let those students flounder?

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that he is a business man first and foremost, but there really isn't a whole lot that an unmatched podiatry graduate can do. They don't have the same opportunities that MD/DO graduates without residencies do. No transitional/preliminary PGY year to fall back on. Ornstein was able to get cheap, skilled(ish) podiatry clinic labor while also letting the unmatched graduate do SOMETHING podiatry related for a year so that they can hopefully maintain their chances of matching next cycle.

Anyways, just food for thought.
 
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ExperiencedDPM

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For the record I agree with you but to play devil's advocate, what do you think he should have done? The shortage situation was absolutely awful, but it wasn't Dr. Ornstein's fault. Should he just have let those students flounder?

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that he is a business man first and foremost, but there really isn't a whole lot that an unmatched podiatry graduate can do. They don't have the same opportunities that MD/DO graduates without residencies do. No transitional/preliminary PGY year to fall back on. Ornstein was able to get cheap, skilled(ish) podiatry clinic labor while also letting the unmatched graduate do SOMETHING podiatry related for a year so that they can hopefully maintain their chances of matching next cycle.

Anyways, just food for thought.
What he could have done was pay the preceptor a fair wage, and not less money than I pay my high school/trade school medical assistants.

These grads were his COLLEAGUES, not some part time high school kid shadowing him. Believe me, they did enough to help him produce enough money to pay them more than slave labor.

Sorry, he was an opportunist and in reality did nothing for these kids.
 
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