My father is from Spain. Am I a URM?

[seracus]

I am tall with light brown hair and blue eyes. I speak Spanish conversationally and am a US citizen, but visit Spain every few years to see my grandparents and cousins. By definition, I am Hispanic. Am I also an underrepresented minority?

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[QuizzicalApe]

a white person of european descent? my word, you are the rarest snowflake of all

 

[kpcrew]

i can't believe this keeps happening. it's as if people want so hard to believe that they deserve an unfair advantage that they will go through any kind of mental gymnastics to justify that belief. it's not like amcas clearly states the definition of a urm or anything.

 

[DCBFan]

No. But only because you are tall.

 

[QuiteAConundrum]

i can't believe this keeps happening. it's as if people want so hard to believe that they deserve an unfair advantage that they will go through any kind of mental gymnastics to justify that belief. it's not like amcas clearly states the definition of a urm or anything.

His father is from Spain, It's hardly a stretch of the imagination to say he is half Spanish by definition. Please explain the mental gymnastics he's going through? Other posters, I agree, have tried ridiculous things like saying they're 1/16th native american or that their great grandfather was from Africa. This poster is not in that category. Also, don't take everything on SDN as a personal attack...from your other posts, it appears you take offense to quite a lot of what people say.

If someone's background puts them at a disadvantage, it doesn't mean they should harbor contempt for others who are at an advantage or trying to figure out if they are.

 

[235788]

I cant wait until the interview. He/she better look VERY hispanic.


They can reject you just for even the thought you could by making it up.

 

[MossyFiber]

half Spanish by definition

Yes. Yes he is. And being half European puts him at a disadvantage how?

 

[QuiteAConundrum]

Yes. Yes he is. And being half European puts him at a disadvantage how?

No, she is at a disadvantage because she is of Asian decent. I wasn't referring to him.

 

[unhappytnt]

My friend from Spain hated being labeled Hispanic and always put down white when his race was asked. Guess he didn't want to play the URM card.

 

[whatbout2morrow]

.... it's not like amcas clearly states the definition of a urm or anything.

https://www.aamc.org/initiatives/urm/

 

[DrMediterranean]

No. You are Caucasian.

 

[blizzah]

I went to spain once. Does that count?

 

[ppfizenm]

Is a white person from South Africa considered URM?

 

[235788]

https://www.aamc.org/initiatives/urm/

its still a very broad definition.

 

[GoZags]

FYI: Hispanic is an ETHNICITY not a RACE on your AMCAS application, frequently overlooked on this Forum. I think you are a White Hispanic (most likely) barring that you aren't any other race listed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic

Scroll down to "United States Definition" it clearly states "...and other Spanish Cultures" ie Spain.

 

[AllDaWEI]

I remember LizzyM saying that ADCOMs will frown upon people trying to use this to advantage, like when they say they are URM based on a grandparent or other distant connection.

But afterall, this is one big game. It looks like medical school admissions can bring things out in people that they never knew existed!!! Like they suddenly discover their long lost roots from their grandmother! In your case, your father is Spanish. So if you can use, then great! If you can successfully use it to your advantage, then good. Anyone would be idiot not to use something available to their advantage so they can win. Just be careful. Since you needed to make thread on SDN, it shows that this is QUESTIONABLE.

 

[AllDaWEI]

i can't believe this keeps happening. it's as if people want so hard to believe that they deserve an unfair advantage that they will go through any kind of mental gymnastics to justify that belief. it's not like amcas clearly states the definition of a urm or anything.

This is real life and medical school admissions is one of toughest games around. A better question is, why would someone NOT try to do this when the potential is there?

 

[flatearth22]

If I can pass for black on AMCAS you can certainly pass for Hispanic. Bonus points if you have a Spanish sounding last name. Also what's up with the closing time on the poll?

 

[235788]

If I can pass for black on AMCAS you can certainly pass for Hispanic. Bonus points if you have a Spanish sounding last name. Also what's up with the closing time on the poll?

because OP is probably a college freshman and wanted to maximize study population.

 

[kpcrew]

This is real life and medical school admissions is one of toughest games around. A better question is, why would someone NOT try to do this when the potential is there?

i guess motivation and hard work just isn't good enough anymore

 

[madsheep]

I actually was asking the same question to myself last year when I applied (in this case my mother is African American), but due to some of the racial mixing in the Louisiana French Quarter she has very light skin and my dad is German so I look practically white. I decided that since it was my mother and I was raised in an all African American community it was close enough to be considered a URM. I can't see why it would be any different then with your father and it never even came up on my interviews.

If you feel Hispanic, especially if you've ever suffered through any hardship because of it that you can speak of during interviews (I was beaten by a school teacher for being not white... long story) I think it's reasonable to claim it.

 

[LizzyM]

Self-identify as you would on the US Census and let the chips fall where they may. I do not believe that Spanish-Americans are under-represented in medicine (URM) in my community but every school can make its own determination.

Don't expect a boost based on your ethnicity.

 

[Poisson]

I would seriously focus on studying, but this is a very important concern as well, because whether people like to admit it or not, URM plays a SIGNIFICANT role in acceptance ease, as well as the quality of the institution. I suggest doing some heavy searching to try and identify if Spanish people, non-Mexican, would play a big impact in admissions, and would get the URM status. Well for one if you speak Spanish, you pose a good chance for admittance into lower GPA LCME medical schools for Spanish speakers, in order to further the mission of having people from Hispanic or maybe extenuated more generally to fluent Spanish speakers that also speak English. In all honesty, I think yes you are a URM. My reasoning is that if you really are deeply rooted in this culture, in your family and what not, this is needed in the medical profession to have those that can relate to backgrounds similar to yours. Perspective of other culture is very important. Now I have all Greek on my male line of the family, but I don't really consider myself Greek in the sense that this culture is a big part of my life, or feel being of this background has effecting me. Groups like Mexican-American, African-American, Indian-American, I mean these are clearly groups that are underrepresented and may have faced a lot of issues in their life clearly directed to their background. Some might have faced discrimination. Others have parents that crossed the border or have felt cheated over 100s of years from having their culture drastically changed from Europeans coming in (parents many times bring down their children, by making them obsessed with their culture or past also in a fast moving world). In my opinion, anything could fly with admissions if you play the story. The reality is that not every URM has had a tough life, but they still use the card. Is it bad to use the card. No, because it helps in admissions, and because it may further represent your background in the health field. I for one have a Christian background that might not be heavily represented in medicine, and if asked about ancestry I would notate Greek, but I don't think this would play much impact in admissions. My goal is MD/PhD or DO/PhD, so research will play the largest impact for me. I honestly don't think if I was black it would help me that much by showing my ability as a researcher, but it would definitely help me get into a top medical school. Just read the profiles, you see URMs getting well below 3.0 or around that and getting like 5-10 acceptances, sometimes even to Harvard. I think it depends on your story. Through the screening process, the URM "could" help, I am not sure of the logistics of this, but if someone asks about this, what are you going to say about your status? These are things you need to consider.

 

[el poblano]

Just the fact that this post causes so much commotion highlights the 'mental gymnastics' required to justify urm at all. Man I hate politics.

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[Hemorrage]

your European, don't even try it. If the Spanish decided to start calling themselves URM, the Italians can too, only in the USA do you find preferential treatment by race

 

[whatbout2morrow]

its still a very broad definition.

Yes, but the definition, and the tables containing applicant and matriculant data (https://www.aamc.org/download/161182/data/table10.pdf and https://www.aamc.org/download/161186/data/table11.pdf) show that in the case of Hispanics and Latinos, URM status is not simply a question of Hispanic or non-Hispanic, but if you are of an ethnicity with a large representation in the general population but low representation in medical schools (ie Mexican-Americans, Puerto Ricans etc). This distinction is not seen in the case of Blacks or Native Americans however.

 

[StopPre77]

While you are not "URM," you are very technically "Hispanic," so do whatever you want: adcoms aren't going to consider it special because it does not get at the heart of the intended usage. URM is about increasing the physician population of Hispanic Americans of various indigenous origins, not directly European.

 

[sirenomelia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic

According to wikipedia- the question of (Spain) Spanish-american decent being hispanic or not, apparently is NO

Hispanic (Spanish: hispano, hispánico) is a term that originally denoted a relationship to Hispania. The term Hispanic was first adopted by the United States government in the early 1970s, during the administration of Richard Nixon,[1] It has been used in the U.S. Census since 1980.[2] The term hispanic is seen as a false cognate with a limited meaning from the original historical term "hispanicus".[3] Since it was adopted by the USA government for the first time, the concept of "hispanic" has been changing along the time. Who is considered hispanic can differ from state to state or differ according to the requirements of the different organizations.[4]
The term to many people in North America has lost its association with Spain, and has become associated primarily with Latin America. This usage is often viewed as incomplete.
The term has also been used to denote the culture and people of Spanish colonization of the Americas countries formerly ruled by the Spanish Empire, usually with a majority Hispanophone population. Collectively known as Hispanic America, this region includes Mexico, the majority of the Central and South American Spanish speaking countries, and the Spanish-speaking island-nations of the Caribbean.

 

[saveourpens]

Applicants like this are one of the reasons this system is broken. You are about as much a URM as any Frenchman or Italian.

 

[AllDaWEI]

Applicants like this are one of the reasons this system is broken. You are about as much a URM as any Frenchman or Italian.

I think it goes beyond this. What about the applicants who are Hispanic, black, or Native American, but come from wealthy families and have no desire to practice in "those" communities? The systen is very broken.

 

[StopPre77]

Applicants like this are one of the reasons this system is broken. You are about as much a URM as any Frenchman or Italian.

But it's not like someone's going to pull a fast one on all of the admission committees. I think lots of times people forget that the true nature of things are generally drawn out over the course of the process (through essays/interviews/etc.). If anything, a half-Spaniard applying URM eventually looks worse if they are perceived to be a disingenuous "box checker."

I mean, if I remember correctly, it is a self-selecting self-identification. If that was the only thing that made the applicant competitive/interesting and the adcomm realizes the applicant's true composition was not in line with what they thought, then they will probably get thrown out after the interview. If they were still a competitive applicant otherwise, they will just lose that aspect of their file and be considered from a slightly different angle. I have heard this directly from an adcomm member.

 

[NH14]

If you have to ask....

I think the more important and pertinent thing to ask is: How wealthy is your family?

 

[SunsFun]

No, you aren't. URM - under-represented minority does not include all Hispanics. People from Spain or Argentina from example were never traditionally underrepresented in medicine in the U.S. as were Hispanics from Mexico for example. Do not expect to get any boost.

 

[Megatron2016]

No, you aren't. URM - under-represented minority does not include all Hispanics. People from Spain or Argentina from example were never traditionally underrepresented in medicine in the U.S. as were Hispanics from Mexico for example. Do not expect to get any boost.

This

 

[Cinclus]

No, you're Spanish, not Hispanic.

 

[sibitrum]

I know someone with blue eyes who successfully played the hispanic urm card. Might be worth a shot.

 

[SpecterGT260]

His father is from Spain, It's hardly a stretch of the imagination to say he is half Spanish by definition. Please explain the mental gymnastics he's going through? Other posters, I agree, have tried ridiculous things like saying they're 1/16th native american or that their great grandfather was from Africa. This poster is not in that category. Also, don't take everything on SDN as a personal attack...from your other posts, it appears you take offense to quite a lot of what people say.

If someone's background puts them at a disadvantage, it doesn't mean they should harbor contempt for others who are at an advantage or trying to figure out if they are.

SPANISH is not URM

HISPANIC is not SPANISH

HISPANIC is URM

The spanish URM is aimed at people of mexican, central, and southern american descent, not the european descent that gave them the current language and made a few deposits into the gene pool.

on a side note, is there any place where you have to prove you are of URM descent?

 

[kautionwirez]

just stick to good grades and a high mcat score to get into medical school.

admissions would be interested in your spanish background MORE than if you checked the URM box.

my 2 cents

 

[MT Headed]

SPANISH is not URM

HISPANIC is not SPANISH

HISPANIC is URM

The spanish URM is aimed at people of mexican, central, and southern american descent, not the european descent that gave them the current language and made a few deposits into the gene pool.

So in order to be Hispanic URM you have to be mestizo?

 

[Gigantron]

i guess motivation and hard work just isn't good enough anymore

Clearly.

 

[SpecterGT260]

So in order to be Hispanic URM you have to be mestizo?

That is not what i said... if you wanted to be really nitpicky, technically I said you COULDNT be URM if you were "mestizo" because that would denote mixed heritage. But that is also not what I was getting at and is a mis-representation of the point.

The point is HISPANIC =/= SPANISH. To be blunt, hispanic is an ethnicity, spanish is a nationality. Spanish people (people from spain) are Caucasian.

I believe many apps actually specify "latino" to circumvent this issue all together because undo no definition is someone from spain a latino.

 

[flatearth22]

It's pretty interesting how different groups of Hispanics/Latinos fare in the admissions game. Seems like the pecking order goes Cuban > Other Hispanic > Mexican > Multiple Hispanic > Puerto Rican in terms of decreasing difficulty getting into med school. Makes sense since Cubans are the most successful of Hispanics and one of the most successful of all minority groups.

https://www.aamc.org/download/161696/data/table19.pdf

 

[Stumpyman]

n=1


A close family friend is 100% spanish (born and raised there, came to the US for University). She put down Caucasian, not Hispanic/URM.

 

[SunsFun]

Look at it from a different perspective, OP. Even people who come from Middle East, Russia, Caucasus, and North Africa put Caucasian on their application and not URM.

 

[MiracleforMD]

I think it goes beyond this. What about the applicants who are Hispanic, black, or Native American, but come from wealthy families and have no desire to practice in "those" communities? The systen is very broken.

Yes, this happens all the time. Does that make it alright for you to exacerbate the problem by stating "other people scam the system, why shouldn't you?" No, it makes you a piece of ****.

 

[maybemed2013]

You are what I consider White Hispanic.

 

[SpecterGT260]

You are what I consider White Hispanic.

how do you defend this position? The only similarity between spaniards and hispanics is language.....

 

[no beans]

So if you have one parent who is hispanic, one who is a caucasian American, and you grew up with mixed cultural traditions, it would be deceptive if you checked off the hispanic and caucasian boxes? When you check off the hispanic box you have to qualify it with what country (likely so they can determine if you are URM). We all know, as do the adcoms, that Spanish is not URM in this country. I think checking off both boxes speaks to your heritage, not to necessarily wanting to cash in on URM. If you can relate to those with Hispanic heritage a little better than others, should you not let this be known? I think it would be deceptive and denying your roots if you didn't check off both. Also, you mark whether you are fluent in Spanish. Adcoms will also determine whether this is important to their school or not. The op was just asking a simple question. There is no need to flame him/her.

 

[SpecterGT260]

So if you have one parent who is hispanic, one who is a caucasian American, and you grew up with mixed cultural traditions, it would be deceptive if you checked off the hispanic and caucasian boxes? When you check off the hispanic box you have to qualify it with what country (likely so they can determine if you are URM). We all know, as do the adcoms, that Spanish is not URM in this country. I think checking off both boxes speaks to your heritage, not to necessarily wanting to cash in on URM. If you can relate to those with Hispanic heritage a little better than others, should you not let this be known? I think it would be deceptive and denying your roots if you didn't check off both. Also, you mark whether you are fluent in Spanish. Adcoms will also determine whether this is important to their school or not. The op was just asking a simple question. There is no need to flame him/her.

who said that? it would be appropriate to check the hispanic box in that case as it is factually correct. your ethnicity is hispanic. you guys are mixing and matching terms and meanings. Without even considering an URM advantage, your ethnicity is static. When asked about it in the USA, the typical context is determining if you have "non-white" ancestry - to whatever ends.

and again... spanish is NOT an ethnicity. That is the same thing as somebody asking me my race and saying I am American. My race is white, or caucasian. Spaniards are caucasian. Mexicans are not spanish, they are mexican, and their race is hispanic. Nowhere on any application does it ask you if you are spanish. it will always ask for "hispanic". This wasnt a coincidence, it is because the words spanish and hispanic are not synonymous.


not saying it is good/bad/broken/unbroken ect.... just saying, according to our system that you check a race box (and many have an "all that apply" statement which further circumvents this issue) assuming you have any of that race in you. With the exception of native american for specific govt benefits. if you are half hispanic check hispanic if you want. if you are spanish - realize that this is a nationality and your heritage is caucasian/european, not latin/hispanic.

 

[MT Headed]

if you wanted to be really nitpicky, technically I said you COULDNT be URM if you were "mestizo" because that would denote mixed heritage.

The point is HISPANIC =/= SPANISH. To be blunt, hispanic is an ethnicity, spanish is a nationality. Spanish people (people from spain) are Caucasian.

and again... spanish is NOT an ethnicity. That is the same thing as somebody asking me my race and saying I am American. My race is white, or caucasian. Spaniards are caucasian. Mexicans are not spanish, they are mexican, and their race is hispanic.

So if a person from spain their race is caucasian.

If that person moves to mexico their race automatically become hispanic.

But if these hispanics in mexico mix with the original aztec native americans of mexico and produce mestizo children (part spanish part amerind), they are not hispanic anymore?

Now I'm even more confused.

Honestly, I'm not trying to mess with you here or trying to be dense, I'm just trying to figure out what is going on. I'm hopelessly lost now.