My GPA is terrible because of my math grades. Any way to exclude some math from BCPM?

[MedStudentWanna]

Fair enough:
Basic argument is that you have less time with the heavy science majors and you end up devoting the majority of your life to the classes instead of, basically, enjoying college, spending time with friends, having deep extra ciricular experiences.
To be a sucessful chemical engineer or biomedical engineer, you don't need personal skills (don't try to argue with me on this one, my dads a sucessful structual engineer and has NO people skills). Lots of them live behind the text books. Hard workers, I admire it, but a pre-med student has very different long term goals than them

Oh, and yes, I am slightly jelous that I didnt chose other majors and minors FYI.

So you think that anyone who doesn't major in the sciences loves college and life and has wonderful communications and personal skills? Wow, talk about stereotypes and generalizations.

I knew a dance major in college who NEVER had free time. All her time was spent in rehearsals and productions that were REQUIRED for her degree. I knew a journalism major who had a senior project that started at the end of junior year and took her away from EVERYTHING resembling a life until after spring break of senior year. Just because they're not sitting there looking at reactions in a lab doesn't mean they're off having cocktails at the local bar.

Your generalizations are becoming insulting now. It makes it sound like everyone but you and your fellow science majors had it easy in college.

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[novawildcat]

For my undergraduate career we were required to take upper level courses in a foreign language, philosophy, 2 social sciences, english, theology, history, humanities, ethics, and fine arts. 4 of the courses had to be writing intensive (25+ pages a semester) and 4 had to be writing enriched (10+ pages a semester). Compared to a math class like real or functional analysis or something like advanced inorganic chem, those classes were a joke. You don't know what hard is unless you have taken classes like that. Pchem lab was by far the worst class, in terms of the amount of work, I had my entire college career. The problem with the whole science vs. nonscience majors argument is the fact that nonscience majors can't really take all the advanced science courses without having significant prereqs (like getting a minor). A ton of upper level non science course can be taken by just about anyone as long as they have maybe taken 1 intro class.

however, I am glad i took so many nonscience classes. if i didn't, i never really would have known how much i really liked economics.

 

[chewsnuffles]

So you think that anyone who doesn't major in the sciences loves college and life and has wonderful communications and personal skills? Wow, talk about stereotypes and generalizations.

No, but I think you'll find rhetoric majors are a different kind of community vs. the engineering department. No offense to either. And yes, I do have a stereotype, if only someone would show me the anthro major who slaves away in college with never a free minute, I'll change my mind right now. AND, I'm not saying anthro major is bad at all, lots of them might have better jobs than me and make more money some day. But, I gurentee you can pass anthro at many schools and go to the bar every night too...

I knew a dance major in college who NEVER had free time. All her time was spent in rehearsals and productions that were REQUIRED for her degree. I knew a journalism major who had a senior project that started at the end of junior year and took her away from EVERYTHING resembling a life until after spring break of senior year. Just because they're not sitting there looking at reactions in a lab doesn't mean they're off having cocktails at the local bar.

No, but will you go with me that perhaps these were some of the more dedicated/stand out students in their respective departments? Any department has students that are naturally hard workers, bound to excel, etc.
Some students make alot of work out of nothing too... every one has seen this happen, and I don't mean it as a knock to non-science majors either, it happens everywhere.

Your generalizations are becoming insulting now. It makes it sound like everyone but you and your fellow science majors had it easy in college.

Thats the last thing I want to do is insult people, but if saying what I really feel is insulting, I'm sorry, but I'm going to say what I say until someone changes my mind. My right to voice my opinion is always greater than your right to not be offended.
Really, I think your mis-reading it a little bit, for starters, any one who is pre-med takes a lot of classes that are super competative anyway. So, since your "medstudentwanna" name instantly implies you are a pre-med student, I'd never say to you "you have it easy in college". Everyone knows that.
What I'm trying to get at is that if you take ALL the premed req's, and ALL the req's for a hard science class, you don't have much room for classes that can be used to pad your GPA. So unless your a genius in your hard science major where there is huge competition, your SOL.

Please, I'm not trying to piss anyone off, and I've I'm way off on anything, just call me on it and get me to change my mind, I swear I'm open to things. Perhaps I go to a small college so I havn't seen "everything", but I also have spent time at big colleges too, in other parts of the world, and my same stigmas cross country boundries as well

 

[taloddar2002]

For my undergraduate career we were required to take upper level courses in a foreign language, philosophy, 2 social sciences, english, theology, history, humanities, ethics, and fine arts. 4 of the courses had to be writing intensive (25+ pages a semester) and 4 had to be writing enriched (10+ pages a semester).

Do you go to Transylvania University by chance? That sounds very similar to their curriculum.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Question: Is it possible to exclude some math classes from being included in your BCPM if you've taken more math than a typical premed would?

Hello everyone.

I used to be a biomedical engineering major so I have taken 4 math classes + 2 classes skipped from my calculus AP exam.

These are the math classes I have taken: (quarter system here so 3 classes = 1 yr)
Math 20A - passed from AP
Math 20B - passed from AP
Math 20C - B (started to go all wrong... I thought this was a fluke getting a B in math because I was good at math in HS, taking calculus in 11th grade and getting 5s on AB/BC)
Math 20D - D (missed the final after getting an A on the midterm... doh!)
Math 20D - C (didn't want to retake so lack of motivation was an issue)
Math 20F - C (at this point, I have lost all confidence in my mathematical skills)
Math 20E - F (I don't even know what the **** I was thinking. It was the lowest point of my life)

My science BCPM including only up to calculus (the 1 B) is 3.5.

But if AMCAS includes all those terrible grades, I'm really really screwed.
Just typing this made me depressed.

As for other stats, I got a 34 on the MCAT but I think I might retake in hopes of overcoming my ******ed GPA.

So, do you guys think they'll let me exclude those terrible grades?
If not, should I retake from like 20A and try to get all As? (which I'm pretty sure I could do... but time is an issue since I'm 23)

FYI:

DO schools dont count math in the science GPA like MD schools do.

 

[Dr. Josh]

Nope... the M stands for Math

does statistics count as math?

 

[starflower]

Statistics does count as math. Because all the math classes will count in your gpa, you should take as many math and science classes as you can where you know you will get "A"s. You should retake ones where you did poorly. Also, you can take statistics and easier science classes to help your gpa.

 

[shnjb]

Thanks for the replies.

For the DO information, thanks for that too, since I didn't know about that.
However, I'm not really interested in DO schools... maybe after I get rejected twice or something.

 

[ryandote]

I can't believe that I just read every post in this thread....

You guys are arguing over something pretty silly, because you both define "hard" in a different way. Appropriately so, because hard is relative. To sandstone, a piece of glass is hard, but to a diamond it is not.

Secondly, I don't think that anyone can just broadly declare "grade inflation" over an entire subject of study. It is much more reasonable to declare grade inflation at a particular school (BYU, for example, where I go to school) or a particular department of a particular school. While declaring grade inflation rampant in general wouldn't be crazy, you'd have to be a fool to peg it to a certain subject, or a certain set of subjects. You, therefore, are permitted to speak from your experience, which is likely bounded by your university.

Third, I have read of more than one school that compares your GPA with the average GPA from your school, or even your department (obviously that only works if they have the data....state school w/ many applicants for instance.) Case in point, when I apply to the University of Utah with my BS in biology from BYU, they will stack me up particularly against the other biology majors from BYU. Therefore, my 3.65 GPA will be less impressive because of the grade inflation evidenced by all the applicants. Fortunately, I have a spectacular trend going (3.88 after my freshman year), and they should definitely be impressed with my 3.65 GPA in my economics BS. Grade inflation is absolutely non-existent in this major with the average in-major GPA settling just around a 2.2.

Incidentally, my economics major (NOT a "hard" science, but a social science) was much "harder" than my biology major. Here economics isn't business economics, it is math-based.

Take what you will

 

[OSUdoc08]

Thanks for the replies.

For the DO information, thanks for that too, since I didn't know about that.
However, I'm not really interested in DO schools... maybe after I get rejected twice or something.

You obviously don't know what a DO school is.

 

[Christo1]

Hmm, this is kinda a stupid question but uhh...

BCPM doesn't just refer to med prereqs? My upper div bio/chem classes will factor into my BCPM GPA as well?

 

[AmyO]

If your only reason to attend DO school is because you "got rejected twice," from MD schools, then you're not going to get into DO schools either. They're looking for applicants with a little more enthusiasm for osteopathic medicine than that.

note to other poster: BCPM GPA counts ALL Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and Math classes you have taken at the undergraduate level not just pre-reqs

 

[GoodDoctor]

Here's as close to empirical as you can get:
http://www.pickaprof.com
This site gets data from the schools and seems to be very accurate. I've used it to avoid one prof who historically gave 12% A's in favor of another who gave 18% A's. I've used the site for 2 years, and all the final averages in all of my classes have matched up with what the site predicted. I thought there was a mistake on one class that claimed 5% A's, but had no choice about the class anyway. It turned out being my first B+ (don't worry, I've gotten a few more) and the final standings at the end of the semester had 5% A's. So,the site is accurate for my school at least.

I wanted to do a Psy minor or double major, so looked it up. When I saw that virtually all Psy classes in my school give 40% to 50% A's, it was a no brainer. The tests are very easy (typically all multiple choice with some obvious throw-aways) and there is tons of extra credit in many classes. I study for these the way I study for my bio essay exams, and typically get the first or second highest grade on the exams (which is not the case in my bio/chem/physics classes). Don't get me wrong, the classes are enjoyable and I learn alot with my overstudying techniques. Another point: The students are not stressed out the way we all are in my bio and other science courses (which have a more classic 15% A, 30-40% B, 30-40% C).

Clearly this may be different at other schools and can vary by department, however, for a large number of schools, the sciences and engineering offer more rigorous courses with tougher grade curves. One example I think everyone can agree on: Is Communications a comparably tough degree at ANY university?

At my first school (much higher rank/reputation), ALL the courses were rigorous. I took a Shakespeare gen ed course and a Philosphy course that both just about killed me. I've never read so much and bs'd my way through more lengthy term papers and tortuous essay questions. I have high respect for Lit majors and Philosphy majors. They've also got one of the top ranked Psych programs in the nation, so I'm sure the classes are tougher there.

 

[ghip]

I am going to call shenanigans on this post.

If you look at the stats on non-science majors getting accepted, apparently adcoms have a different opinion than you on what makes people academically qualified. Remember, they are going to teach us what we need to know at med school. If you did well in your pre-reqs and did fine on the MCAT, and demonstrated good grades across the board in sci and non-sci, you're ready.

NEWSFLASH! You don't get "extra credit" for being an engineer or a math major or whatever. If you like that stuff, fine, do it. Chances are you'll do well. Go for it. If you don't, it doesn't mean you can't handle med school. It means you don't want to be an engineer.

Two different arguments were going on for a bit here. 1. what is intelligence. 2. do you get bonus points for doing well as an engineer or math major.

1. this is a stupid argument and happens with some regularity here.
2. yes, you do (at some schools)

jackie seems to have some understanding of the difficulty of defining intelligence (for which, we applaud her). but what she doesn't understand, like many intelligent sdners, is the fundamental principle of the admissions process (and often, life in general): just because it makes sense, doesn't make it so.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Clearly this may be different at other schools and can vary by department, however, for a large number of schools, the sciences and engineering offer more rigorous courses with tougher grade curves. One example I think everyone can agree on: Is Communications a comparably tough degree at ANY university?

I don't know about that. Assuming you mean broadcast/media communications, ask the Communications majors at the University of Florida or at Mizzou. Not everyone makes it through their programs and they're two of the best in the country. It isn't like all that they do is learn to talk in front of a camera. There's all kinds of theory they're responsible that involves lots of reading and writing and history, especially in international commuications, foreign relations, and foreign policy which are components in many programs. My sister just got her grad degree from Mizzou in Communications and I can tell you it was not easy.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Hmm, this is kinda a stupid question but uhh...

BCPM doesn't just refer to med prereqs? My upper div bio/chem classes will factor into my BCPM GPA as well?

YES,

B (Biology)
C (Chemistry)
P (Physics)
M (Math)

ANY COURSE that falls under those 4 categories are counted.

 

[mvenus929]

Here's as close to empirical as you can get:
http://www.pickaprof.com

Meh... they don't have my school.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Don't worry, you'll be alright if you're URM.

 

[MinnyGophers]

Statistics does count as math. Because all the math classes will count in your gpa, you should take as many math and science classes as you can where you know you will get "A"s. You should retake ones where you did poorly. Also, you can take statistics and easier science classes to help your gpa.

adcoms are not blind, they can see exactly what people are doing by taking classes like "Intro to chemical equations balancing" and "algebra for athletes" to boost a GPA.
Also, retaking a lot of classes is a red flag.