My grad grades matter because..

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

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Fortunately most med schools look at undergrad grades earned while completing the BA/BS and more recently if applicable.

But a number of schools mentioned or specifically looked at grad grades. OHSU for example, per their office, actually folded grad grades in when calculating an applicant's GPA for application purposes.

But why should these matter, particularly for those who completed grad degrees unrelated to medicine? I've heard too many things about really difficult engineering or technical schools where it's much tougher to earn an A in grad school than as an undergrad. I had this experienced as well at my school known as one of the toughest in the country.

For some reason hearing about how a lower grad GPA "brought down an entire application" last year just set off alarms..yes it's possible to work really hard in grad school and still earn a B. Do MDs earn all As? If not, how is it expected that a med student would have all As at any other program that they've ever been in prior to med school?

How can one respond to a adcomm question about this without sounding defensive or quoting admission statistics at the grad school? Saying "my school was rated XYZ" or "is one of the best in this field" or "does not have grade inflation" seems an inadequate response. thanks for reading!

 

[177983]

Fortunately most med schools look at undergrad grades earned while completing the BA/BS and more recently if applicable.

But a number of schools mentioned or specifically looked at grad grades. OHSU for example, per their office, actually folded grad grades in when calculating an applicant's GPA for application purposes.

But why should these matter, particularly for those who completed grad degrees unrelated to medicine? I've heard too many things about really difficult engineering or technical schools where it's much tougher to earn an A in grad school than as an undergrad. I had this experienced as well at my school known as one of the toughest in the country.

For some reason hearing about how a lower grad GPA "brought down an entire application" last year just set off alarms..yes it's possible to work really hard in grad school and still earn a B. Do MDs earn all As? If not, how is it expected that a med student would have all As at any other program that they've ever been in prior to med school?

How can one respond to a adcomm question about this without sounding defensive or quoting admission statistics at the grad school? Saying "my school was rated XYZ" or "is one of the best in this field" or "does not have grade inflation" seems an inadequate response. thanks for reading!

I guess grad grades matter because they're grades. And I don't mean that superciliously. The thing about grad schools is that they range incredibly. Many in academia (and a few I've met outside) think that grading in grad school is a joke, and schools just hand out A's to most and B's to the mediocre. So, for a doc who knows nothing about engineering schools or their reputations, how's he/she going to know that your program was harder than anyone else's. Fair or not, they see a GPA without knowing it's scale relative to the rest of the schools.

As to how to justify/explain a so-so grad GPA, I don't know that there's a great way... I think no matter how you phrase it, they're going to see it as an excuse. If possible, maybe slip in at an earlier time that the school is ranked very high/has a good reputation? Perhaps that will nip the question in the bud, or at least make it seem like you're not just trying to cover your as s. But that might backfire if you seem eager to brag about something that probably only slightly matters to them, so I guess I have no great answer.

 

[pam61371]

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[Lacheln]

That is a little odd, in the sense that I haven't heard of any other school doing it, but at the end of the day grade inflation/deflation is an issue for undergrad as well and you might as well approach it in the same way. It's very difficult for a school to assess the difficulty of all of the programs people have been through, so maybe a recc letter from a grad prof and/or pre-med committee letter would be the place to address it. You can't say "the program is grade deflated" but someone else can.

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

Yep OHSU told me that I wasn't being considered due to GPA under their cutoff, I think it was 3.65. When I responded that my GPA was upper 3.7s, they explained that they include grad grades into their calculations, which dropped me to somewhere just below their threshold. (taking another year of undergrad classes with my current upper 3.7s undergrad gpa seemed silly). I presume they consider hours the same way that the AMCAS primary calculates them, not sure about this.

And yes, this was the only school that I've heard of or run across that does this. But it was one of my top choices so I was sorry to hear how they calculate grades.

Continuing to vent, try this (hypothetical) one out "we are not going to consider your application further because your GPA at Harvard Business School/MIT Engineering/Yale Law was not over 3.65, although had you not attended this graduate institution we would have granted an interview".

 

[Lacheln]

Yep OHSU told me that I wasn't being considered due to GPA under their cutoff, I think it was 3.65. When I responded that my GPA was upper 3.7s, they explained that they include grad grades into their calculations, which dropped me to somewhere just below their threshold. (taking another year of undergrad classes with my current upper 3.7s undergrad gpa seemed silly). I presume they consider hours the same way that the AMCAS primary calculates them, not sure about this.

And yes, this was the only school that I've heard of or run across that does this. But it was one of my top choices so I was sorry to hear how they calculate grades.

Continuing to vent, try this (hypothetical) one out "we are not going to consider your application further because your GPA at Harvard Business School/MIT Engineering/Yale Law was not over 3.65, although had you not attended this graduate institution we would have granted an interview".

Wait, so are you saying that a sub 3.65 is an auto-no interview for ohsu? My gpa is below that, but I did get the secondary. Is there no point in submitting the secondary? This is the first I've seen that. 🙁

On another note - to get a sub 3.65 from HBS you would have to fail Advanced Hand Shaking, in which case you don't deserve a secondary from the Caribbean, much less an interview from OHSU.

 

[CfromLA]

Yep OHSU told me that I wasn't being considered due to GPA under their cutoff, I think it was 3.65. When I responded that my GPA was upper 3.7s, they explained that they include grad grades into their calculations, which dropped me to somewhere just below their threshold. (taking another year of undergrad classes with my current upper 3.7s undergrad gpa seemed silly). I presume they consider hours the same way that the AMCAS primary calculates them, not sure about this.

This is weird. I'm looking at the Medical School Admission Requirement guide for OHSU and it says their selected applicants had scores (in 2007) as low as 3.3 (overall GPA) and 3.2 (science GPA). The scores range from 10th percentile to 90th percentile. Maybe I don't understand that right. Or maybe they have different cut-offs each year--I'm not sure.

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

I'd call the school to verify their cutoff, I believe for OOS the cutoff for interview consideration (not to receive a secondary -- I rec'd and completed one last year) was 3.65, it was definitely three point six something, + 32 MCAT. There were a few exceptions, I recall one being joint degree candidates (who could get an interview with lower stats) and I think URMs as well. I'd call the school to confirm, but they had a policy similar to several other schools I'd applied to last year -- I made the (screened) secondary application cut, but not the interview cut (for me, due to a MCAT thing that I've since fixed). To me, this seems a bit questionable that a school will screen and offer a secondary when they know that no interview will be offered to the candidate.. again, just my opinion.

yes, at grad school they did have a "team building" non-credit component that focused on trusting the team, human bridge, team games, and the like. But it was non-credit so no chance of losing points there..

 

[Lacheln]

I'd call the school to verify their cutoff, I believe for OOS the cutoff for interview consideration (not to receive a secondary -- I rec'd and completed one last year) was 3.65, it was definitely three point six something, + 32 MCAT. There were a few exceptions, I recall one being joint degree candidates (who could get an interview with lower stats) and I think URMs as well. I'd call the school to confirm, but they had a policy similar to several other schools I'd applied to last year -- I made the (screened) secondary application cut, but not the interview cut (for me, due to a MCAT thing that I've since fixed). To me, this seems a bit questionable that a school will screen and offer a secondary when they know that no interview will be offered to the candidate.. again, just my opinion.

yes, at grad school they did have a "team building" non-credit component that focused on trusting the team, human bridge, team games, and the like. But it was non-credit so no chance of losing points there..

Hmm. I guess I'd better call, I REALLY don't have $100 to flush down the toilet right now. I graduated from an oregon high school, which I was sort of hoping might at least minorly tweak things in my favor, but if the cutoff is 3.65 and I'm not even close, I doubt it would do the trick. 🙁

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

Yes, I've become a big fan of calling the schools, there were 2 last year that I didn't apply to because the admissions office told me with a certain MCAT score (any section below 9) it would be wasted money to apply to the school.

My take on the MSAR is that the schoool averages/min mcat/gpas may well be lower than the cutoffs I was told, but this is one of the many public schools that screens out the OOS students based largely on numbers, at least for the initial cut.

You raised a good point about "ties to the state", not sure about OR and this is would be wise to explore prior to applying, but my ties to IL count to some extent for some IL schools. I spoke with each (IL) school to see how I could reference the "ties to the state" so that this could be considered; often the school requested an e-mail indicating the ties or similar. Some schools (for IL, SIU) would only consider an application favorably if one currently resides instate, another (RUSH) considers one instate depending on PARENTS' legal residence. Makes sense to explore this!

 

[Lacheln]

I've decided to cut it. 🙁 I've had some very large unexpected family expenses lately and am too broke to risk $100. I figure if UW doesn't want me then I can wait until residency to get back to the west coast. I'm a little sad though.