My mind was fully set to anesthesia before I read this forum..

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Hey Dude,

Concerning your comments about PLANK'S Opinion,

DON'T YOU SEE?

THAT'S WHAT MAKES THIS PLACE GREAT, MAN.

I don't know another site on SDN that has such an

ACTIVE ATTENDING AUDIENCE!!!

Dude, you have practicing anesthesiologists out in the Real World (like Plank), paying their bills doing this craft, willing to come to this site and contribute and offer their opinions.

THAT'S GOLDEN MAN.

We're all different. We practice differently, we think differently, we have different opinions.

You don't have to agree with our opinions.

Quite frankly,

You are benefiting from our opinions and it is to your advantage at your stage to see

ALL SIDES OF THE EQUATION.

The only way you can see ALL SIDES OF THE EQUATION is to

LISTEN TO DIFFERENT SIDES OF THE STORY (this ain't North Korea dude...it still IS ok to have an opinion).

Dude, don't get me wrong.

I'm glad you're here and just you being here proves you're a

MOTIVATED MO FO

BUT

Don't lose perspective, man. Think of the development of

YOU. AS A DOCTOR.

Would you rather hear one side only? A biased side probably? All thru

ROSE COLORED GLASSES?


No man.

I'm gonna take the lead here and respectfully give you some advice at this point...advice you can use thru the rest of your development as a physician:

LISTEN TO ALL SIDES MAN. DON'T SHUT OUT OPINIONS OR SUGGESTIONS.

Listen to ALL since the more opinions/suggestions/ways to do procedures/how things are in general

you hear,

The better decision you can make

FOR YOURSELF.

Shunning opinions makes you

SMALLER IN KNOWLEDGE BASE.

You don't have to agree, but it will

HELP YOU GROW

IF YOU LISTEN.


Especially if the info is coming from a RELIABLE SOURCE.

Like Plank.

I'm not saying I agree with him, FYI.

But listening to him makes my knowledge base WIDER.

Listen to all sides.

IT MAKES THE DECISION YOU MAKE IN THE END FOR YOURSELF WISER.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't get excited to see the multi-size, intermittently bolded font in a thread I've been reading.

I love your perspective. I hope I can use it to my benefit as I start my intern year this July.

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DUDE IF I COMMENT ON THAT THREAD AGAIN I PROBABLY RISK SDN HIT MEN CLANDESTINELY STALKING ME AND TRYING TO KILL ME.:D

All kidding aside, that post was very controversial but very true.

Last I heard the SDN Stupidvisors....no sorry... I mean supervisors had stashed it away in the group Topics In Healthcare (or something like that) but because of the inflammatory nature (albeit absolutely TRUE) I don't think it even exists anymore.....someone I think hired

DAVID COPPERFIELD and

POOF

I believe it is not a part of SDN for your reading enjoyment anymore.

Even tho it had something like

70,000 HITS.

I printed and tacked this thread to my refrigerator when deciding between anesthesiology and IM/FM...... (yep, they were my second choice, probably IM and no fellowship). Out of the MANY awesome posts, that one was more instrumental to me in choosing this field (which I love and while we have challenges, they can be met for sure and you CAN have a rewarding career in this "biz").

Oh, but don't tell admin! lol
 
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Hey Dude,

Concerning your comments about PLANK'S Opinion,

DON'T YOU SEE?

THAT'S WHAT MAKES THIS PLACE GREAT, MAN.

I don't know another site on SDN that has such an

ACTIVE ATTENDING AUDIENCE!!!

Dude, you have practicing anesthesiologists out in the Real World (like Plank), paying their bills doing this craft, willing to come to this site and contribute and offer their opinions.

THAT'S GOLDEN MAN.

We're all different. We practice differently, we think differently, we have different opinions.

You don't have to agree with our opinions.

Quite frankly,

You are benefiting from our opinions and it is to your advantage at your stage to see

ALL SIDES OF THE EQUATION.

The only way you can see ALL SIDES OF THE EQUATION is to

LISTEN TO DIFFERENT SIDES OF THE STORY (this ain't North Korea dude...it still IS ok to have an opinion).

Dude, don't get me wrong.

I'm glad you're here and just you being here proves you're a

MOTIVATED MO FO

BUT

Don't lose perspective, man. Think of the development of

YOU. AS A DOCTOR.

Would you rather hear one side only? A biased side probably? All thru

ROSE COLORED GLASSES?


No man.

I'm gonna take the lead here and respectfully give you some advice at this point...advice you can use thru the rest of your development as a physician:

LISTEN TO ALL SIDES MAN. DON'T SHUT OUT OPINIONS OR SUGGESTIONS.

Listen to ALL since the more opinions/suggestions/ways to do procedures/how things are in general

you hear,

The better decision you can make

FOR YOURSELF.

Shunning opinions makes you

SMALLER IN KNOWLEDGE BASE.

You don't have to agree, but it will

HELP YOU GROW

IF YOU LISTEN.


Especially if the info is coming from a RELIABLE SOURCE.

Like Plank.

I'm not saying I agree with him, FYI.

But listening to him makes my knowledge base WIDER.

Listen to all sides.

IT MAKES THE DECISION YOU MAKE IN THE END FOR YOURSELF WISER.
i think this is one of the best post i've ever seen in this forum.
thank you.
 
GI, cards, and anesthesia are completely different fields. It is crucial you do what you think you will enjoy and can still manage to do relatively happily in 30 years. It is a stupid decision to have to make after 1 month of exposure to the various fields, but it is what it is. Do NOT make money-based decisions, going to medical school was when you decided maximizing your income was not a priority, dont half ass your way out of that commitment now.

And the only field "safe" from midlevels is surgery (by the nature of how long it takes to mint a surgeon). Nurse endoscopists are on the horizon for GI, and while interventional cards is safe, cards fellowships for NPs already exist.

Make yourself valuable, be active in improving yourself and your setting, and stop trying to predict the future--nobody has been able to do this yet, what makes you think you can?

Cardiology is probably the safest of all those for being truly affected by NPs. If I stretch my imagination, I can see how NPs would be allowed to do something like TEEs, but there aren't many other relatively simple procedures that can be supplanted by mid-levels. And the crux of cardiology - being completely adept at ECGs - will never be mastered by the NP. Hell, it'll never be mastered by even your average board certified internist.
 
Blade, Plank, Doze, Jet, Noy, IlD, et al are all great resources on this forum.
Jet hit the nail on the head. Expressing ones opinion on where the specialty might be going is extremely useful aspect of this forum. The residents and med studs have a nice nugget through these guys.

Look, listen and feel.
 
That Rads article is depressing. I feel terrible for those guys... especially the residents that were left high and dry. Must be an empty feeling... and to think I almost went into Rads with a goal to do interventional rads.

Most people just don't get the sacrifice it takes to get into rads, do a residency and fellowship, end up with 250-300k in debt and loose the best years of your life while you are getting no sleep and sweating bullets on a day to day basis.

You deserve every penny you make... and prorealdoc is right. That 450k turns into 225k real fast. Never mind all the years of lost income from med school to your first day of "partnership track/250k/yr" in PP.

Some people just don't get it.
 
ProRealDoc, WTH? You should know. Sounds like someone is going into medicine for the wrong reasons. So now you feel like you have to prove something to everyone huh?

You need to calm down. The really sad part is that you are incapable of understanding your ignorance, because you are so far away from where these guys are. I don't come from a rich family (heck, neither of my parents even finished high school), so I can understand what you are saying about how big that sum of money looks right now. But, you also have to understand that the suits up top will always try to find a way to squeeze more money out of the system. By laying down now, we are opening up the door for letting them further screw us down the line. Decreasing reimbursements in conjunction with the absurdly high cost of medical school (which is almost all at 7.9%, since grad students can no longer get subsidized loans) is creating a storm that will make it very difficult for all of us. Your immaturity in the process makes it so you don't have enough experience or perspective to make the statements that you are making. Until you have experienced how much medical training !@#$ing sucks, you can't possibly understand how someone could desire to be appropriately compensated for their time/sacrifice and yet still not be in it for the money. Don't get me wrong, I love what I am doing now (it is way better than the construction job I had before I went to school), but loving something doesn't mean it doesn't suck. Do yourself a favor and figure out how to learn from people that have gone before you now, or if/when you make it to medical school, you will be knocked on your ***** hard by people way smarter than you.
 
Here is my view of the entire medical field right now. We as physicians, that means everyone from surgeons to IM docs, are all passengers on the Titanic. Anesthesiologists are the passengers in the stearage levels and may be first to drown, IM-fellowship trained docs are second class passangers along with general surgeons, the specialty surgeons (CT, thoracic, neuro) are the only ones guaranteed a seat on the life boats but even they are going to have to freeze their @sses off bobbing in the cold water until rescue.

My take by spe:cialty
Anesthesiology - We have been under assault from our "colleagues" (aka militant CRNAs) for years and our leadership hasn't really taken a stand. No matter how many dollars are thrown the the PAC, they are unlikely to do anything as long as a good portion of members are making money off CRNAs. I can't stand getting the ASA newsletter every month and seeing all the BS articles while the real focus should be what is being done to save (not protect...truly save) our profession.
Gone are the days of graduating from residency and heading off to PP gigs making 500K a year; but those days are over for almost everyone in medicine. If CRNAs gain full independent status on a national level then the field will likely go down the tubes. The only thing that could truly save it at that point is the true incompetence of the new crop of CRNAs. When hospitals start to get slammed with big lawsuits because some CRNA didn't know WTF they were doing, it may swing things back toward employm ent of MDs. The other thing that may work in our favor is that surgeons (although the majority have serious personality disorders) for the most part want the best outcomes and they are unlikely to be happy with CRNAs.

Radiologist: The advent of the tele-reading is going to hit them hard. Also, in the future physicians are going to be pressure into ordering fewer studies to cut down on overall costs. This will kill the general diagnostic guys.

IM/FM: These guys are going to be the lowest hanging fruit and have already lost a great deal of power to NPs.

General surgeons: These guys used to do everything from fistulas to bowel resections and everything in between. Now fellowship trained surgeons are doing alot more and the field of gen surgery is becoming less appealing to med students. I mean, how sexy is the 10,000th hernia anyway? Especially when you are getting a hundred bucks from medicare to operate on an 85 yo with ESRD and CAD to fix that inguinal hernia? Add in 5-7 years of residency and all the other BS involved with surgery and it becomes even less appealing. Gen surgeon's should also fear the day when NPs will want to get a piece of their pie. Don't believe me? If you asked a doctor practicing in the 1950s if his degree would be equal to that of a nurse one day he would have laughed his @ss off......Not so funny today.

Specialty surgeons: These guys will always be needed. The only issue will be keeping people interested when the payout won't be as good. The salaries will go down considerably if we start rationing healthcare. If rationing doesnt take place then your days may be spent doing re-do CABGs on 85yos; also not very appealing. Transplant surgeons will be few and far between if we start rationing. I mean is medicare/medaide going to be paying for a liver transplant on the alcoholic former junkie.

IM-fellowship trained: Cards may be safe. GI? Anyone seen the guy training NPs to do scopes at Hopkins? ICU, how about those intensivist NPs?


Last word, I am of the firm belief that NPs, CRNAs, APRNs (and all the other bogus credentials they tack onto the end of their names) are out to take the physician out of medicine. They feel they are our equals in training and deserve to be treated as such. The only way to save all of medicine is to take a stand against them. Don't train them, don't give away your turf, don't allow them to do procedures, don't hire them.
 
Last word, I am of the firm belief that NPs, CRNAs, APRNs (and all the other bogus credentials they tack onto the end of their names) are out to take the physician out of medicine. They feel they are our equals in training and deserve to be treated as such. The only way to save all of medicine is to take a stand against them. Don't train them, don't give away your turf, don't allow them to do procedures, don't hire them.

:thumbup:
 
Oh please! All I hear is whinning and complaining in here. I hope Obamacare rips all of the greedy doctors in here a new one! Then we'll see who REALLY "Love loves helping people!"

I hope he does too, then I can tell your grandfather, sorry sir your 75 and Obama says you don't get tubed and a full run of EGDT for that urinary tract septic shock, you get comfort measures and a quick ride down to the morgue. Meanwhile I will just move on to the next patient who is young enough and healthy enough by his standards to warrant receiving my critical care services. Say goodbye to poppa you whiny little prat. Isn't their an age restriction on SDN? Or can we at least prevent the pre-meds from accessing the resident/attending forums? It is a pipe dream for most of them, like this d-bag, who doesn't have the hair on his nuts, figuratively and literally, to make it half way down the road we have all walked.
 
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I hope he does too, then I can tell your grandfather, sorry sir your 75 and Obama says you don't get tubed and a full run of EGDT for that urinary tract septic shock, you get comfort measures and a quick ride down to the morgue. Meanwhile I will just move on to the next patient who is young enough and healthy enough by his standards to warrant receiving my critical care services. Say goodbye to poppa you whiny little prat. Isn't their an age restriction on SDN? Or can we at least prevent the pre-meds from accessing the resident/attending forums? It is a pipe dream for most of them, like this d-bag, who doesn't have the hair on his nuts, figuratively and literally, to make it half way down the road we have all walked.

Dont forget the obama death tax that will rape your family after the fact!
 
Last word, I am of the firm belief that NPs, CRNAs, APRNs (and all the other bogus credentials they tack onto the end of their names) are out to take the physician out of medicine. They feel they are our equals in training and deserve to be treated as such. The only way to save all of medicine is to take a stand against them. Don't train them, don't give away your turf, don't allow them to do procedures, don't hire them.


Dude, I don't get what the problem is. The free market solves everything and makes everyone better off, doesn't it?

These payers have gotta make a profit for their investors, and cheap NPs seem like the way to go.
 
Dude, I don't get what the problem is. The free market solves everything and makes everyone better off, doesn't it?

These payers have gotta make a profit for their investors, and cheap NPs seem like the way to go.

When Flexner researched his report, many American medical schools were "proprietary", namely small trade schools owned by one or more doctors, unaffiliated with a college or university, and run to make a profit. A degree was typically awarded after only two years of study. Laboratory work and dissection were not necessarily required. Many of the instructors were local doctors teaching part-time, whose own training left something to be desired. The regulation of the medical profession by state government was minimal or nonexistent. American doctors varied enormously in their scientific understanding of human physiology, and the word "quack" flourished.

Flexner looked this situation in the face. Using the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine as the ideal,[4] he issued the following recommendations:[5]
1.Reduce the number of medical schools (from 155 to 31) and poorly trained physicians;
2.Increase the prerequisites to enter medical training;
3.Train physicians to practice in a scientific manner and engage medical faculty in research;
4.Give medical schools control of clinical instruction in hospitals
5.Strengthen state regulation of medical licensure

Flexner believed that admission to a medical school should require, at minimum, a high school diploma and at least two years of college or university study, primarily devoted to basic science. When Flexner researched his report, only 16 out of 155 medical schools in the United States and Canada required applicants to have completed two or more years of university education.[6] By 1920 92 percent of U.S. medical schools required this of applicants.[7] Flexner also argued that the length of medical education should be four years, and its content should be what the CME agreed to in 1905. Flex recommended that the proprietary medical schools should either close or be incorporated into existing universities. Medical schools should be part of a larger university, because a proper stand-alone medical school would have to charge too much in order to break even.

Less known is Flexner's recommendation that medical schools appoint full-time clinical professors. Holders of these appointments would become "true university teachers, barred from all but charity practice, in the interest of teaching." Flexner pursued this objective for years, despite widespread opposition from existing medical faculty.

Flexner was the child of German immigrants, and had studied and traveled in Europe. He was well aware that one could not practice medicine in continental Europe without having undergone an extensive specialized university education. In effect, Flexner was demanding that American medical education conform to prevailing practice in continental Europe.

By and large, medical schools in Canada and the United States have followed Flexner's recommendations down to the present day. Recently, however, schools have increased their emphasis on public health matters.
 
Blub1212, I honestly don't care how smart you are. The fact that you may or may not already be a doctor scares me with your elitist attitude. So you spent 8 years or so in medical training you feel like you deserve to get paid thousands and thousands of dollars? You deserve to be trated with respect because of your status as an MD. You deserve everything because you SLAVED over medical school? Well boo hoo I dont care. You better heal me no matter if your income is 100,000 or 300,000. You become a doctor to heal not for the money; remember?
 
When Flexner researched his report, many American medical schools were "proprietary", namely small trade schools owned by one or more doctors, unaffiliated with a college or university, and run to make a profit. A degree was typically awarded after only two years of study. Laboratory work and dissection were not necessarily required. Many of the instructors were local doctors teaching part-time, whose own training left something to be desired. The regulation of the medical profession by state government was minimal or nonexistent. American doctors varied enormously in their scientific understanding of human physiology, and the word "quack" flourished.

Flexner looked this situation in the face. Using the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine as the ideal,[4] he issued the following recommendations:[5]
1.Reduce the number of medical schools (from 155 to 31) and poorly trained physicians;
2.Increase the prerequisites to enter medical training;
3.Train physicians to practice in a scientific manner and engage medical faculty in research;
4.Give medical schools control of clinical instruction in hospitals
5.Strengthen state regulation of medical licensure

So, Flexner was a committed statist, then.

If he had been a real American, instead of the Euro-socialist he clearly was, he'd have realized that the MARKET would take care of all those quacks, because as we all know, the patients back then had SKIN IN THE GAME (sometimes quite literally).

The patients could simply have compared the price and performance of all the physician-sellers in the marketplace and (as if by MAGIC), the quacks would have lost market share to the competent physicians, without all that intrusive and burdensome state regulation.

But at least we can breathe a sigh of relief. The new waves of NPs and CRNAs are here to offer a valuable market alternative, and the purchasers of health care are voting with their wallets.

It's morning in America again!

:love:
 
Blub1212, I honestly don't care how smart you are. The fact that you may or may not already be a doctor scares me with your elitist attitude. So you spent 8 years or so in medical training you feel like you deserve to get paid thousands and thousands of dollars? You deserve to be trated with respect because of your status as an MD. You deserve everything because you SLAVED over medical school? Well boo hoo I dont care. You better heal me no matter if your income is 100,000 or 300,000. You become a doctor to heal not for the money; remember?

Why is a preoptometry student on here?
 
So, Flexner was a committed statist, then.

If he had been a real American, instead of the Euro-socialist he clearly was, he'd have realized that the MARKET would take care of all those quacks, because as we all know, the patients back then had SKIN IN THE GAME (sometimes quite literally).

The patients could simply have compared the price and performance of all the physician-sellers in the marketplace and (as if by MAGIC), the quacks would have lost market share to the competent physicians, without all that intrusive and burdensome state regulation.

But at least we can breathe a sigh of relief. The new waves of NPs and CRNAs are here to offer a valuable market alternative, and the purchasers of health care are voting with their wallets.

It's morning in America again!

:love:

Perhaps true, but how many people needed to be harmed by those quacks before the market took care of it?
 
Ahhhh the midlevel debate continues. Not much has changed I see.

Do yer job well. Teach nonprofessionals and professionals like equals, it IS about pt care.

BE smart about billing, CONTROL your terf, be AVAILABLE to other medical services, get INVOLVED in your hospitals politics, MARKET yourself and your services! Find and protect your niche! Become INVALUABLE at your institution and to your group.

We will all be paying more and getting less as WORKING physicians. socialism and beurocracy and LACK of ACTION by intellegent individuals is CRUSHING US physicians.
 
Oh yea, btw, I guess you deserve the pay cuts coming your way too according to the government. Go into family medicine if you really want to help people. People like you dont REALLY care about patients. Its the money in anesthesiology. You just dont want to admit it. What do you guys do? Put people to sleep and give spinal taps. Oh wait, so can CRNAs. Why pay MDs thousands of dollors more when we can use CRNAs? DOOM AND GLOOM!!! Feeling threated and insecure about your status and pay? Maybe you should switch to radiology or ortho surgery....anything where you can sit atop a throne and be adorned by all.
 
Oh yea, btw, I guess you deserve the pay cuts coming your way too according to the government. Go into family medicine if you really want to help people. People like you dont REALLY care about patients. Its the money in anesthesiology. You just dont want to admit it. What do you guys do? Put people to sleep and give spinal taps. Oh wait, so can CRNAs. Why pay MDs thousands of dollors more when we can use CRNAs? DOOM AND GLOOM!!! Feeling threated and insecure about your status and pay? Maybe you should switch to radiology or ortho surgery....anything where you can sit atop a throne and be adorned by all.


Sounds like someone got rejected from med school...
 
Ventdependent. Why does everything have to be about defending turf? Why not focus on giving excellent care instead of worrying about what the midlevel providers are doing? Work together not against each other! Help people! Heal people! Teach people! Too much to ask for?
 
I plan on opening a practice in my own town eventually. I can tell you I wont be sitting on my butt working at a Walmart. I love everything Optometry profession has to offer. None of the other medical professions speak to me as much. The aspects of surgery(future?), medication admin, therapy, management of diseases are really attractive to me. I also love being able to be an expert on ONE thing, the eye. The pay is important whether you think so or not and I don't need you to tell me otherwise. I want to make a good living for myself and I have the right to do so! And get off your high horse, Bioflare. You can pre-judge me all you want, but the reality is you know nothing about me.

This is our friend geranomo from another forum. Sadly, he is not a child. He describes that he is almost 30, and wishes to be a well paid optometrist or a specialty dentist. Probably because he cares so much about helping others.
 
Im not an optometrist student or a dental student. I don't need money, power or fame to be happy unlike you guys, Gern and Vent. I've matured since then and realized that money isn't everything. Don't worry, you'll learn eventually.
 
This is our friend geranomo from another forum. Sadly, he is not a child. He describes that he is almost 30, and wishes to be a well paid optometrist or a specialty dentist. Probably because he cares so much about helping others.

Hahaha.
What an ass clown. Nice detective work.
Btw, I won't treat you for $100k because if that was the going rate, I'd do something else, or move to Canada. Maybe for $250. That's where I see the bottom. Good luck pushing your Luxottoca wear. I'd rather dig ditches.
 
Seems like Destriero is thinks hes got me. Well, for one thing, people change and so do their outlooks on life. Seems like you're insecure and hiding it by trying to make me look bad. Sorry, won't work! CRNAs, keep up the good work and take what is yours!
 
Good luck taking my job.
Your ignorance is what is making you look bad. You don't even want to engage in any discussion or debate, you just want to troll our little forum. Have at it chief, until you join the long list of the banned. Then come back again and get banned again. We're used to that here. CRNA trolling is a daily occurrence. Welcome to the club.
 
Im not an optometrist student or a dental student. I don't need money, power or fame to be happy unlike you guys, Gern and Vent. I've matured since then and realized that money isn't everything. Don't worry, you'll learn eventually.

That's why I said "wishes to be."
Don't worry, the world needs ditch diggers too.
 
Geronamo is clearly an idiot troll and probably is too stupid to get into med school. He may be a crna but as most of them are, stupid. Good god get a life! Go back to your pathetic existence as a troll
 
CRNAs are stupid? How the hell did you get into medical school with that kind of disrespect? If only the public could see what pre-med/doctors say in this forum. Makes me sad that there are people like you becoming doctors.
 
Im not an optometrist student or a dental student. I don't need money, power or fame to be happy unlike you guys, Gern and Vent. I've matured since then and realized that money isn't everything. Don't worry, you'll learn eventually.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

SLIM,

You are

OBVIOUSLY AN IMPOSTER

here to stir s h it.

Dude, REALLY,

go find a hobby to occupy your free time.
 
Im not an optometrist student or a dental student. I don't need money, power or fame to be happy unlike you guys, Gern and Vent. I've matured since then and realized that money isn't everything. Don't worry, you'll learn eventually.

Haha! Not only could this guy not get into medical school but he couldn't get into optometry or dental school either. Now he's learned 'money isn't everything'. Classic rationalization and overarching bitterness to boot. Oh and by the way, geronamo26, I WILL have fries with that.
 
Crnas ARE often stupid. Also, you seem incredibly stupid too. Couldn't get your gpa above 2.0 in community college??
 
CRNAs are stupid? How the hell did you get into medical school with that kind of disrespect? If only the public could see what pre-med/doctors say in this forum. Makes me sad that there are people like you becoming doctors.

Everybody starts out with a baseline level of respect, then they either earn more or less. You, my friend, have eroded pretty much all of that respect away. If you feel disrespected, then you have brought it upon yourself.

If you want to earn that respect back, then come to this board recognizing your limitations and be willing to listen and learn to people who know more than you. JPP's post was quite excellent, and I recommend you read it again.
 
CRNAs are stupid? How the hell did you get into medical school with that kind of disrespect? If only the public could see what pre-med/doctors say in this forum. Makes me sad that there are people like you becoming doctors.

Also, as others have alluded to, I think the public would relate to being fairly compensated for their hard work.

If I tried to tell someone that they should be repairing my car engine solely because repairing engines should be a reward in and of itself, they would laugh my ass out of the shop. Doctors at all points in history have been fairly compensated, whether it's through food, shelter, favors, etc etc.
 
I understand wanting compensated fairly, but why the 400,000 500,00 600,000 salaries? Why the disrespect toward mid-levels? What do mid-levels have to do with school loans and salaries?. I just want to know why everyone is so upset about paying 200,000 medical school loans when they will be making 300,000 to start as an anesthesiologist? Its not as hard as people seem to like to make it out to be. Just don't buy the million dollar home and 50,000 dollar car. Live simply. Live off of 100,000 a year. Thats all I'm saying. There is no reason for 400,000, 500,000 600,000 dollor salaries.
 
Your loan value is way off.........I will be graduating with close to 400,000 in loans between undergrad and medical school......I honestly think that with interest I will likely pay close to 600,000 if paying it off in ten years.....see:
Loan Calculator

Loan Balance: $400,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $404,040.40
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Fees: 1.00%
Loan Term: 10 years
Minimum Payment: $50.00
Enrollment Status: In Repayment Degree Program: Doctor (M.D.)

Monthly Loan Payment: $4,649.71 Number of Payments: 120

Cumulative Payments: $557,965.25
Total Interest Paid: $157,965.25

Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 119 payments of $4,649.71 plus a final payment of $4,649.76.

The loan balance was adjusted to yield $400,000.00 after deducting the 1.00% loan fees.

It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $557,965.20 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 0.7. If you use 15% of your gross monthly income to repay the loan, you will need an annual salary of only $371,976.80, but you may experience some financial difficulty.This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 1.1.

The following table lists the minimum income necessary to repay the debt without encountering a partial economic hardship. Partial economic hardship is defined as having annual education loan payments in excess of 15 percent of discretionary income, where discretionary income is the amount by which Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) exceeds 150 percent of the poverty line. This figure is shown in the Minimum AGI (IBR) column. The Minimum AGI (ICR) column uses an alternate definition of economic hardship, based on 20 percent of discretionary income which is defined as the excess of AGI over 100 percent of the poverty line.
 
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That is insane in my opinion. And if I up it to pay off in 20 years pay a total of 750000 with 3000/ month payment. Up it to 30 years and I pay 1000000 with a 2600/month payment. So please stop talking about my debt like you actually have a clue.
 
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