My practice and 3140 sq ft office condo FOR SALE

[Doctodd]

South Florida is popping and I had an unsolicited offer on the office condo itself for $1 million so I might as well throw this out there for new grads. The office condo is almost new and is owned by me alone, and it is in the only medical arts building in the area 20” south of Miami. It is next to the hospital so you could be in the doctor's lounge in three minutes. Persuade me to retire. You can take over a turnkey office with all patient’s, staff, contracts, a revenue generating tenant Physical therapist, and all equipment including regenerative. You could also be on the ground floor for the only (new) ASC in the area planned. I will teach all my regenerative tricks and transition so all patients are kept. Im part of an Ortho umbrella group for contracts, and they offer all benefits including insurance and retirement.

Approximately 3140 sq ft, 1 procedure room with a top of the line OEC Elite Vas-15 C-arm and carbon fiber diving board table, MyLab US machine, 2 sterilizers, 2 centrifuges, 4 patient rooms, PT area, kitchen, 2 private bathrooms, 2 executive offices, 1 large room that can be used for patients or storage or anything else, and more i cant remember. Perfect for new grads who dont want to wait to build up a practice. The struggles of starting a practice with contracts are eliminated by joining the Ortho umbrella group. I/you still have complete autonomy.

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[Doctodd]

Bump

 

[Czech777]

How much?

 

[Agast]

My husband considered buying someone else’s practice. Things they discussed were opportunities for owner financing and having the owner stay on part time for 1-2 years to transition the patients/acclimate them to the new physician. Buying a practice bundled with real estate is amazing for stability. Ultimately what scared him away was rumors that the landlord wanted to remodel the whole complex and potentially jack up the rent looking for new tenants.

 

[nvrsumr]

Because there is real estate attached should be able to get a sba loan

 

[Doctodd]

My husband considered buying someone else’s practice. Things they discussed were opportunities for owner financing and having the owner stay on part time for 1-2 years to transition the patients/acclimate them to the new physician. Buying a practice bundled with real estate is amazing for stability. Ultimately what scared him away was rumors that the landlord wanted to remodel the whole complex and potentially jack up the rent looking for new tenants.

The building is modern and about 15 years old. It was just repainted and had some improvements, but it does not need a complete renovation. The unit is mine...i built it out from a shell and the interior is only about 3-4 years old....there is no landlord except my Real Estate Management company, which is the way to structure it for asset protection. Some units are rented out by the owners....which is my long term plan if i dont sell. As it is, i only work about 2.5 days per week.

 

[Doctodd]

You can walk across the parking lot to the hospital. Turnpike off-ramp is adjacent to the building.

 

[Doctodd]

Front of building

 

[Agast]

That’s a nice set up. Someone take up this offer before interest rates go up!

 

[vit8bsm]

What exactly does the ortho group get from you?

 

[IYKYK]

PMd you!

 

[Doctodd]

What exactly does the ortho group get from you?

a 3% of collections clearinghouse management fee...it can be more if they do your billing, but my office manager does my billing

 

[Doctodd]

bumping this for new grads coming up. I will stay on for transition. Will also teach all my stem cell/Regenexx secrets.

New info.....i have an ortho tenant who is the head of surgery at the hospital next door 2 days a week which pays for more than half the mortgage. Physical therapist still a tenant also. Ive declined offers on the office space alone….from 2 orthos.

 

[strike5858]

Just curious how you would put a valuation on a pain practice.

 

[Doctodd]

Just curious how you would put a valuation on a pain practice.

Usually it’s 5-7x collections. But I don’t work much.

 

[BobBarker]

5-7x collections. $10M for a moderately busy practice?

 

[Doctodd]

5-7x collections. $10M for a moderately busy practice?

Fair enough. I’d take a lot less.

Edit on square footage….it was 3140 sq ft for the shell.

I’m unit 314.

 

[Ronin1]

5-7x collections. $10M for a moderately busy practice?

5-7 EBITDA more likely. Not just collections.

 

[Doctodd]

Layout

 

[Asclepius186]

Maybe I’m not business savvy enough, but could a new grad really secure a 10M business loan for something like this?

 

[strike5858]

Even at 5-7 x ebitda for a single office, single office practice your better off just hanging a shingle. It would take two years max to start from scratch.

 

[GatorCHOMPions]

Maybe I’m not business savvy enough, but could a new grad really secure a 10M business loan for something like this?

Even at 5-7 x ebitda for a single office, single office practice your better off just hanging a shingle. It would take two years max to start from scratch.

There are two sides to this and no shame in wanting to get what you think you deserve from the sweat and tears of building up a successful practice over presumably many years. On the flip side, as others have pointed out, what is in it for someone to pay millions up front when they can start on their own terms with less financial risk?

Gone are the days when our physician forefathers talked about bringing someone on in a proper apprenticeship role, mentoring, growing with them, and passing the keys in an equitable manner upon retirement, or the apprentice earning an equitable share in the practice.

Sorry for lashing out but just needed to vent. I know I’m bitter from the job search down there last year. Everyone is out for themselves and the offers were pretty bad to say the least. Ended up in another state as a result which was only slightly better because, instead of fellow physicians taking advantage of me, I felt knew exactly what I was getting into with hospital employment. Yes, I could’ve started on my own, but that prospect with two young kids moving to a new state, buying a house in this market, it was too much to take on at once.

 

[Ronin1]

There are two sides to this and no shame in wanting to get what you think you deserve from the sweat and tears of building up a successful practice over presumably many years. On the flip side, as others have pointed out, what is in it for someone to pay millions up front when they can start on their own terms with less financial risk?

Gone are the days when our physician forefathers talked about bringing someone on in a proper apprenticeship role, mentoring, growing with them, and passing the keys in an equitable manner upon retirement, or the apprentice earning an equitable share in the practice.

Sorry for lashing out but just needed to vent. I know I’m bitter from the job search down there last year. Everyone is out for themselves and the offers were pretty bad to say the least. Ended up in another state as a result which was only slightly better because, instead of fellow physicians taking advantage of me, I felt knew exactly what I was getting into with hospital employment. Yes, I could’ve started on my own, but that prospect with two young kids moving to a new state, buying a house in this market, it was too much to take on at once.

Well it probably wouldn’t be millions. You would buy the hard assets let’s say 1 million for RE. Then some multiple on the excess income over costs. Let’s say the MD makes 600 and it takes 500 to replace him. So 100 x 6 for example. 600k for the business line.

 

[Doctodd]

Even at 5-7 x ebitda for a single office, single office practice your better off just hanging a shingle. It would take two years max to start from scratch.

For one thing, there’s no office space available, much less specifically for pain. Also the contracts are worth a ton without the hassle of waiting 3-6 months to possibly get on them, and at much lower rates. All the legwork is done. No need to spin your wheels learning.

The asking price is nowhere near $10 million. I want to retire. It’s closer to $2 million after taxes.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

. Yes, I could’ve started on my own, but that prospect with two young kids moving to a new state, buying a house in this market, it was too much to take on at once.

Right, but someone else made the sacrifices that you didn't want to.

From the owners perspective, what you see as someone taking advantage of you they see as someone wanting to walk in to an equitable share without having gone through the risk, sacrifice, effort, etc. of starting one's practice.

 

[GatorCHOMPions]

Right, but someone else made the sacrifices that you didn't want to.

From the owners perspective, what you see as someone taking advantage of you they see as someone wanting to walk in to an equitable share without having gone through the risk, sacrifice, effort, etc. of starting one's practice.

Read my paragraph above. I expect to work and earn an equitable share, or be an employee for a few years and perhaps be offered a fair sale upon senior doc’s retirement. I don’t fit the entitled narrative you are assuming, nor do most of those in my shoes.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

Read my paragraph above. I expect to work and earn an equitable share, or be an employee for a few years and perhaps be offered a fair sale upon senior doc’s retirement. I don’t fit the entitled narrative you are assuming, nor do most of those in my shoes.

Lol, work a few years as an employee to be offered an equitable share. Your understanding of fair value is obviously not the same value that the market dictates.

Ask your hospital employer to offer you an equitable share after being their employee for a few years. Let me know what they tell you.

 

[powermd]

This sounds like a great practice and if I were interested in Florida, I'd definitely be curious. I think the crux of the matter in valuation is the degree to which the practice revenue depends on relationships that only you can maintain. I'd be very nervous paying $1M (+ another $1M in real estate) to buy another guy's practice without a solid 2-3 year handover to make sure the relationships transfer. You might have some special charisma that works for selling high value regenerative services in your area. The buyer may not have that ability. Same with your referral relationships- they are yours- not the new guy's. They may not transfer.

 

[Doctodd]

This sounds like a great practice and if I were interested in Florida, I'd definitely be curious. I think the crux of the matter in valuation is the degree to which the practice revenue depends on relationships that only you can maintain. I'd be very nervous paying $1M (+ another $1M in real estate) to buy another guy's practice without a solid 2-3 year handover to make sure the relationships transfer. You might have some special charisma that works for selling high value regenerative services in your area. The buyer may not have that ability. Same with your referral relationships- they are yours- not the new guy's. They may not transfer.

The regen teaching is part of the deal. And I wouldn’t mind staying on for a while to ensure success. Being on the payroll has its advantages, such as umbrella group benefits.

 

[drusso]

Lol, work a few years as an employee to be offered an equitable share. Your understanding of fair value is obviously not the same value that the market dictates.

Ask your hospital employer to offer you an equitable share after being their employee for a few years. Let me know what they tell you.

They will tell you to go F*&NCKing pound sand. I've seen it with my own eyes.

 

[Doctodd]

Bump for summer.

 

[Doctodd]

bump for august

 

[Doctodd]

Bump for September

 

[Doctodd]

Physical therapy and ortho Tenant pay >$7000 a month in rent combined.

 

[22yis]

What city in florida is this?

 

[Doctodd]

What city in florida is this?

about 20" south of miami......city is called Homestead.

 

[epidural man]

about 20" south of miami......city is called Homestead.

Man, I wish I could come take it from you. Seems like a great deal.

 

[Doctodd]

October bump

 

[Doctodd]

november bump....rental income from PT and ortho is now >$8000/month.

 

[specepic]

Looks like a great building! glws

 

[Doctodd]

bump for spring

 

[drusso]

bump for spring

I can't believe it's taking so long to sell this. It's a gold mine.

 

[Doctodd]

I’m not really trying…..it’s just here and I put it on gaswork yesterday. I saw another practice without real estate for sale in destin, fl a (beautiful tiny beach town) for $750k.

 

[lobelsteve]

I’m not really trying…..it’s just here and I put it on gaswork yesterday. I saw another practice without real estate for sale in destin, fl a (beautiful tiny beach town) for $750k.

Destin a tiny beach town?
Cedar key might be.

 

[Doctodd]

Destin a tiny beach town?
Cedar key might be.

i havent been there in awhile....but compared to south beach which is what im used to, it's tiny

 

[mickey1t]

What does the community think a practice like this should be valued on the open market??

Obviously everything is worth what someone else is willing to pay, but I would love to hear different thoughts/ideas/perspectives on determining a valuation of a practice.

 

[cowboydoc]

What does the community think a practice like this should be valued on the open market??

Obviously everything is worth what someone else is willing to pay, but I would love to hear different thoughts/ideas/perspectives on determining a valuation of a practice.

Superb question that will get vastly different answers here. In short, if it includes assets (predominantly real estate in our line of work) it will be worth a lot more. Associated ASC buy-in that's cooking also changes everything.

The value of existing contracts/referral sources and patients is subjective and variable. In some places this is invaluable. In others, it's meh. The blood, sweat and tears to build a practice is worth at least 7 figures to the person who did it, but the buyer almost certainly doesn't appreciate that value. The emotions involved with this are probably greater than the sale of a home someone lived in for decades.

My bias: A hospital based employee with real estate background that got deep in the weeds to purchase a solo private practice from a guy looking for an exit strategy. IMO, his emotional connection and value of past work was far greater than my dispassionate assessment of the value of buy-in.

 

[Agast]

Not all medical practices are equal, although the valuation methods are the same for each specialty.

If you're in an area where regenerative medicine is hot, a pain practice with a strong regenerative medicine clientele is more profitable than a regular pain clinic. But you have to retain patients, and the best way to convince long term patients to stay is to have the owner stay on part time as an employee and phase him out over the course of the year.

 

[Ducttape]

i think it would help if doctodd advertised the practice on somewhere other than this forum. im sure he would find takers - unless the area is oversaturated with pain docs.

 

[Doctodd]

construction around here is insane.....it's only going to grow more and more. An ASC is inevitable.

If I advertised locally, I don’t think it would help the practice. And my son is still 12, so I’m just playing the appreciation game. And I’ll stay on a bit to help transition.