my semi-solicited advice

[Adcom2]

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Please let me know what you think about my academic history regarding these types of degrees and my chances at being admitted. I just have the opinion that treating these degrees negatively seems wrong. It doesnt take a classroom to learn any of these requirements. It really only takes dedication and hard work. To tell someone, essentially, that there hard work over the years was all for nothing, is a little unjustified. Any comments about this would help me greatly. Thanks.

Are you saying that ALL of your degrees (other than the CC pre-req courses) are correspondance courses? I've not seen that in my committee, so I don't know how it would go over. Maybe not even noticed unless you specifically point it out. My committee seems to think that the military is a good background for med school, and you sound like you have been dedicated an accomplished a lot. We recognize that your options are limited when you're on active duty! Interviews run many months, unfortunately, from say September to March, depending on when you get your application in.

 

[Adcom2]

Dear adcomm,
I am on the waiting list for one school, have an interview in Feb and am still waiting on responses from 3 schools. My MCAT score is the weakest part of my application. Do you think I should start studying for it again in case I don't get it? Thanks!

Depends on how much time you think you need to prepare. You should definitely be prepared to reapply. Maybe start in February?

 

[Adcom2]

Hi Adcom's,

Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions of ours.

I'm curious, at your schools, is there such a thing as "interviewing for the waitlist"? If so, when does it begin?

I appreciate your help.

At my school, it's the job of the admissions staff to admit people (based on our rankings) at a rate that will allow them to admit throughout the cycle. Of course, that's difficult and sometimes qualified candidates who interview later may be offered waitlist instead of admission because all slots were filled. I know of other schools that specifically front-load their acceptances so that at this point one would almost certainly be interviewing for the waitlist.

 

[Adcom2]

I'm interested in reapplying in 2007. I applied in 2005 and was only interviewed at 1 school. My question mainly is whether or not I should retake the MCAT.

I graduated from undergrad with a 3.31 cumulative and 3.32 BCPM. When I applied in 2005 it was a 3.1 cumulative and 3.1 BCPM. My MCAT is a 31P, 11 VR, 10 BS and PS. I only took it once, in April of 2005.

I don't think your MCAT was as much a problem as your GPA. Your MCAT was fine, actually.

I went on to graduate school and am pursuing a MS in biomedical studies. So far I have a 4.0 after just one semester. I'll be researching with a plant biologist that makes medically-relevant proteins for drug therapy or vaccination. I do not expect to get published. I also TA undergraduate biology labs, 15 hrs/wk.

As far as clinical experience, I've been an EMT-B for 4+ years and have a combined 2.5 years of clinical experience, including 12 months working full or part time in a surgical ICU. I haven't held a medical job since the summer after my sophomore year.

I spoke to my premed adviser today. He told me I should NOT retake the MCAT as 31 is "good enough," but that I should get new work experience to show I'm still interested. He said that a 34 or 35 wouldn't really be beneficial over a 31, but if I messed up and got a 29 it would really hurt.

Will my 31P with my work experience, current upward trend in GPA, graduate work, and research experience be "good enough" for a good shot at an interview or would getting my MCAT up help significantly? I'm looking at going to schools out of state, especially in the Tennessee area.

Thanks a lot for any advice or input.

Sounds like a great application the second time around. If you can fit it in, try to get in some clinical volunteering to demonstrate ongoing interest in the nuts and bolts of medicine. I guess I'm with your advisor 100%. If you're still doing EMT work, that covers it. If not, how about joining the local volunteer squad?

 

[Adcom2]

Quick question...how much do traditionally "harder" majors weigh in when considering GPAs? For instance, are engineering applicants cut a little slack for their GPA because of a traditionally harder course load? I have heard this but I'm not sure if it is significant or not.

Yeah, I think that's true. Also for schools that are perceived to be harder or more competitive. I also personally like non-science majors.

 

[Adcom2]

I've heard that age really matters when applying to med school 🙁 .

I'll be a junior (19 yrs old) when I apply and get interviews and such...
is this a problem?

Age doesn't matter, in fact considering age in admissions would be a serious no-no. On the other hand, if a candidate is perceived to be immature or naif about medicine, that can really hurt their application. So maturity and wisdom matters, but not age. Of course, there is a correlation 😛

 

[Adcom2]

I really messed up my intro premed classes during freshman year - C+ in Chem I, Physics I, and Bio I...but I have a very science/math heavy courseload and have done very well in recent, upper-level science courses (A's in orgo I/II, cell bio/biochem, anatomy, and lots of bioengineering courses). I also did well on the science portions of the MCAT (13 in bio, 14 phys). My GPA freshman year was a 2.8, but my most recent semester of junior year was a 3.7, so I have an upward trend.

My current science and overall GPA stands at a 3.2, possibly 3.3 by application time. How much will the bad grades of freshman year classes hurt me, considering the recent good grades in science courses and the MCAT?

Hard to say. An upward trend is very important, and may completely wipe out those old grades in the committee's mind. But then again, it wasn't all that long ago. Continue to do well, and you should be OK. Your MCAT demonstrates you have the capacity, and everyone messes up at some point.

 

[Adcom2]

i know that i've been hearing alot about how a bad mcat will not sink you

I disagree

and how the mcat is only a piece of the plethora of information the admissions committee uses to evaluate the person, but how much does a good gpa/mcat really help (3.8/38)? is there such a thing as a sure-thing (as long as i dont have felonies or am completely weird)?

No, there is no such thing as a sure-thing. We turn down 3.8/38s maybe 1/3 of the time.

 

[Adcom2]

by pretty solid, i mean to say i have quite a few activities (volunteering, shadowing, research, etc.) and i felt as though my personal statement was good too based on most of my peers' remarks. do you think its a good idea to start writing letters of interest at this time. there really hasnt been anything new to add to my file besides the fact that ive continued doing what i stated on my AMCAS. thanks.

I don't see how letters of interest could hurt. You may be "destined" to reapply. You should be working right now on improving your application for next cycle. New experiences, MCAT retake, more courses, etc. Best wishes.🙂

 

[Adcom2]

Dear Adcom,

My boyfriend and I are applying to med schools together. We both are asian and go to a well-known and extremely respected undergrad college. He has about a 3.5 gpa and I have about a 3.4 and we both have MCAT scores well over 35. However, our success with the top 30 medical schools has left a lot to be desired. Do you have any suggestions for what we might be able to do to get a few of the last remaining interviews? Does writing letters, etc. help or is it already too late...? Thanks!

Are you applying as a couple? How does that work?

 

[Adcom2]

In regards to LOR's, what happens if someone applies and doesn't get accepted. Can they resend those LOR's the next cycle, or is it expected you come up with a new batch each time?

You would need to have at least a couple new ones. When reapplying, you will (read: must) have new experiences anyway, and those should generate the new letters.

 

[Adcom2]

Dear Adcomm,

I've been reading through a lot of these posts, and so far I can't quite find an answer to my questions, so here goes.

I am a strong applicant in terms of statistics:
40 MCAT, 3.94 GPA, >100 Hours volunteering in a hospital, almost 2 years of research, and some very limited community service.

I have been lucky enough to have had 7 interviews already this session, but I've already been rejected (both post-interview and without interview) from the schools which are at the bottom of my list in terms of difficulty of gaining acceptance.
For the most part, I thought that my interviews had went well.
However, even though I have an extremely strong interest in becomming a doctor, I feel that I have had trouble conveying this in the interviews.

Is it possilbe that these schools are rejecting me because I haven't shown strong interest, and is this a likely sign that I have little chance at the upper-tier schools which haven't decided on me yet?

Schools place different amounts of weight on the interview, but if you're really turning the interview off for some reason (and struggling to explain your motivation for medicine can do it) then that might red-flag your application. Is it possible your letters also reflect that difficulty?

Secondly, even though med schools claim that they aren't evaluating you when you aren't in an interview, are they? And if so, isn't there something morally wrong with that?

I would take them at their word. On the other hand, we are all being evaluated by others at all times, so it's important to keep that in mind. At my school, tour guides (for example) have no official input whatsoever in the application process. On the other hand, if a tour guide takes the trouble to report to the admissions staff, "Applicant A was a real prick during the tour," then obviously that's a red flag, even though there's no evaluation. In general the committee only sees the formal written evaluation(s) by the formal interviewer(s). I would suspect that's the case everywhere.

 

[Adcom2]

Dear Adcom,

I ended up applying to over 20 schools, my stats aren't that amazing (28 first time MCAT/32 second 3.7 overall gpa and 3.3 science gpa). In an effort not to go insane and to spread out the secondary apps, I ended up submitting them close to their deadlines. I now have 1 rejection and 1 waitlist (no interview). Am I completely out of luck? Should I send a letter of intent to the waitlist school even though I didn't get an interview? Should I just put all of my focus into getting into a caribbean school at this point?

I wouldn't say you're completely out of luck. They have to evaluate your application if you got it in by deadline. All the same as I implied earlier it gets hard to find still-open seats later in the season. Personally, I would much rather reapply in the US than go to the Caribbean. A letter of interest might help, I guess, but if they haven't interviewed you I don't think a letter of intent helps.

 

[Adcom2]

How come some threads are bold while others are not? Sometimes the most current thread is not bold.

Because the ADMISSIONS COMMITTEE commands that it be that way.
😎 😉

 

[Adcom2]

My question is... I have been waitlisted or placed on hold at several med schools and have not interviewed there. Is it appropriate to send an LOI before an interview or only if waitlisted after an interview?

You know, my school just doesn't care about the whole LOI thing. I think I just posted that you should do one only after interview, so I'll stick with that.

 

[Adcom2]

Ah ha! I'm caught up. I guess I have no excuse not to work on Renal, then. Dang.😡

 

[montessori2md]

Hi adcoms, wow this thread is long...you guys are dedicated!

So, I visited a school I'm interested in (applying for 2008), and the admissions rep I talked to said their commitee isn't so fond of shadowing lately, as they want to see "hands on" type volunteering work. She then went on to say that registering patients, working an information desk were examples of appropriate clinical experiences.

I told her I was confused about how telling visitors where the bathroom was could be clinical experience, especially given my current work as a teacher -it's not like I don't interact with people and live in a lab all day.

Her response was, well, we also want you to be interested in the clinical experiences you have, but we want you to have done 3-4 different things.
You could volunteer with children, since you're a teacher (totally missing my point that I'm already interacting with children and their parents....).

My interests lie in seeing more MD interaction with patients, which basically necessitates shadowing, though I'm thinking I could get a little experience as a translator (I was a Spanish major, lived overseas for a couple of semesters).

Anywho, besides venting about this admissions person, I do have questions: 1) how much do the people working in the admissions office actually know about what y'all do (because this person basically quoted the MSAR for me), and

2) what's the best way to maximize my clinical time, because I have a job, classes, the MCAT and a family, so I want to make every hour count. My choices (I live near DC):

1) volunteer at a clinic like Walker Whitman (HIV/GLBT)
2) volunteer at second hospital (already doing therapy w/ elderly pts at one hospital in med/surg)
3) do a trauma internship at my current hospital
4) shadow
5) translate
6) scribe
7) take a registration job

Am I naive for thinking that working with kids ages 3 months -7 years for the past couple of years (and their parents, specialists, Head Start, social svcs) has been useful (yes, it's non clinical) experience? Am I "cheating" by putting my first aid, cpr, health assessment, medication administration, child abuse prevention, developmental training in the clinical experience section of AMCAS? I know it's not phleb or ems, but...I dunno, where does it go?

 

[J-whoa]

Hi Adcoms just two quick questions:

1) Would it look bad spring semester if I took two pass/fail classes out of four?

2) I really want to go to a certain school - would it help me to send a letter of intent before being waitlisted or anything but after I've interviewed?

Thanks

 

[jaggernaut]

🙂 H E L L O

 

[beenthere2]

If you are logged in, bolded threads are ones you haven't seen or clicked on before, at least since the last post. Unbolded threads, even if they are most recent, are ones you have already seen.

Dumb question, I know. But thanks. I was distracted by this issue...!😳

 

[BirenJ]

I read through most of these posts, and I can honestly say that I think I am screwed when, come this summer, I start the application process. The first 3 semesters, I didn't pay much attention and ended up with rough ~2.9 overall (don't even ask about science gpa). However, I jumped from a barley 3.0 kid to a barely 4.0 kid these past two semesters (spring '06 - 3.5; fall '07 - 3.85).

Right now my overall is 3.3, and science is 2.9. If I manage at least a 3.5 this semester, it might bump my overall to a 3.4 and my science to a laughable 3.0. So, how bad is this going to hurt me when i apply? I plan on taking the MCATs this may/june.

I have NO clinical exposure/volunteer/research. None. I am thinking about shadowing as much as possible this coming spring semester. Is that my best option at this time (i plan on applying this summer)? I could help out at research labs here and there, but I won't be directly involved with research in anyway. Volunteering is out of the question because pushing patients around or staring at a potted plant in ER isn't going to help me decide whether medicine is, in fact, the right choice for me.

You can be brutally honest with me. I know that I've messed up, and I know that I wasted my time all these years as an undergrad. If not '08, then '09 or year after that, or 5 years after that, or 10 years after that, no matter what, nothing is going to stop me from becoming a doctor. I am ready to do whatever it takes. I just need an honest opinion from someone who is directly involved with admission process (such as yourself).

 

[estairella]

If not '08, then '09 or year after that, or 5 years after that, or 10 years after that, no matter what, nothing is going to stop me from becoming a doctor. I am ready to do whatever it takes.

Wow, I can see you're dedicated. Well, I wish you best of lu-

Volunteering is out of the question because pushing patients around or staring at a potted plant in ER isn't going to help me decide whether medicine is, in fact, the right choice for me.

... wait, WHAT?

I am ready to do whatever it takes.

Volunteering is out of the question

👎

 

[armybound]

adcomms,

Thanks for the first response. I have another one.. a lot less important one.

My girlfriend is in a Ph.D. program at my school of choice. Would you imagine the adcomms would care at all or place any consideration on me wanting to attend their school partially because of my relationship situation? If so, would it help or hurt me?

Would it be a good or a bad idea to state that I'd like to attend their school (in part) because I'm looking to start a future with my girlfriend, etc.?

Thanks again.

 

[whatnow]

Hi,

I was just wondering what admission's committees think when they see a 3.97 in Chemistry, coupled with a 24P (all 8's), and almost done with a graduate degree (MPH) with a 4.0.

I have two publications (one science journal, one medical journal--I first authored), volunteer, clinical research experience, shadowing, etc?

I've been rejected from most schools without even an interview. Is there nothing that helps that 24?

Thanks!

 

[foofish]

I have NO clinical exposure/volunteer/research. None. I am thinking about shadowing as much as possible this coming spring semester. Is that my best option at this time (i plan on applying this summer)? I could help out at research labs here and there, but I won't be directly involved with research in anyway. Volunteering is out of the question because pushing patients around or staring at a potted plant in ER isn't going to help me decide whether medicine is, in fact, the right choice for me.

Just a fellow applicant here, but reading your post was a little like watching someone about to throw themselves in front of a speeding train.

Frankly, having no clinical exposure or volunteer work isn't going to help you decide whether medicine is the right choice for you, either. Maybe I'm wrong, but the sense I've gotten from this whole process is that clinical experience is pretty standard and almost required (e.g. my postbac program actually required 120+ hours to even qualify for a premed committee letter). From the very first post of this thread:

4. AMCAS, volunteer activities- please have either this or shadowing. even having a great application otherwise is not enough to overcome lack of clinical exposure.

There are tons of volunteer opportunities where you do get more clinical exposure than the positions you've described....and yes, sometimes you'll have to transport a patient or do something else that's apparently beneath your standards, but in return you can get great opportunities to shadow, observe procedures, etc. Hospitals and clinics do not exist so that you, the premed volunteer, can have a good time. And I agree, some volunteer stints can be frustrating, but that just means you need to find another opportunity that suits you better. Before ruling out volunteering or getting clinical exposure, just remember that you'll be applying alongside people who did volunteer 200+ hours, and did research, and who will also have a great gpa and MCAT. I just find it a little odd that you've been intentionally sabotaging yourself....I know you said you might shadow a doctor in the spring, but personally I'd get started asap.

Sorry adcom2, I'll keep to myself now. 🙂

 

[armybound]

Hi,

I was just wondering what admission's committees think when they see a 3.97 in Chemistry, coupled with a 24P (all 8's), and almost done with a graduate degree (MPH) with a 4.0.

I have two publications (one science journal, one medical journal--I first authored), volunteer, clinical research experience, shadowing, etc?

I've been rejected from most schools without even an interview. Is there nothing that helps that 24?

Thanks!

I don't mean to jump in for the adcomms, but why not retake the MCAT? It's obviously the weakest part of your application.

 

[whatnow]

I don't mean to jump in for the adcomms, but why not retake the MCAT? It's obviously the weakest part of your application.

I didn't mean to imply that I wasn't going to retake. I obviously will be retaking the MCAT should I not get in this year. I guess I just thought I was good enough in other areas to continue applying...

 

[this is not fun]

Are you applying as a couple? How does that work?

we are not applying as a couple officially - but we would like to go to the same school - basically i am just wondering if there is anything we can do at this point to get some more interviews/if it is worth telling the med schools?

thanks!

 

[Noeljan]

Hey there
I asked for advice about my outfit for the interview and I followed what you said. Well I got accepted🙂 🙂 So thank you! (ps not that my outfit got me accepted but it was one less thing to worry about🙂

 

[greenfield]

Dear Adcomm,

After an interview that consisted of strange questions and comments that did not have much to do with my ambitions of becoming a doctor, I talked to my premed advisor about the interview. My advisor thought that the first question he asked was "very inappropriate" and told me to contact the dean of admissions. Could you let me know how the admissions committee handles situations like this? I am afraid that it might be frowned upon if I contact the school to complain about my interviewer. Although the interview was awkward and the worst one I have had so far, I did not panic at the question. I think I've read that some interviewers ask inappropriate questions on purpose to see your reaction. Even if I am offered another interview, how would it be perceived at the committee meeting? I'm also worried that if I do call the dean of admissions, get another interview, and do get accepted, what if the interviewer ends up being one of my professors? Would the interviewer find out in cases like this?

Thank you so much.

 

[cyrille104]

Dear Adcomm,

After an interview that consisted of strange questions and comments that did not have much to do with my ambitions of becoming a doctor, I talked to my premed advisor about the interview. My advisor thought that the first question he asked was "very inappropriate" and told me to contact the dean of admissions. Could you let me know how the admissions committee handles situations like this? I am afraid that it might be frowned upon if I contact the school to complain about my interviewer. Although the interview was awkward and the worst one I have had so far, I did not panic at the question. I think I've read that some interviewers ask inappropriate questions on purpose to see your reaction. Even if I am offered another interview, how would it be perceived at the committee meeting? I'm also worried that if I do call the dean of admissions, get another interview, and do get accepted, what if the interviewer ends up being one of my professors? Would the interviewer find out in cases like this?

Thank you so much.

What kind of question could be that inappropriate?

 

[biobossx99]

For the MCAT,

Is it true that Verbal and Physical sciences are favored more over the Bio, in terms of score break down (since everyone seems to do well in bio anyways?) (I heard this from a person who is going through TPR teacher training)

The UCSF - UCB Joint program director said that there is a strong correlation between doing well in med and matches for residency and high verbal scores.

Is that also true?

And in the end, the break down probably doesn't matter too much, so long as it's over 10 in all and over 35 anyways?

Thanks!

 

[123165]

Hello adcoms, quick question. I am trying to shadow, but I have run into a few patient privacy related roadblocks. I am still cold calling, having exhausted personal contacts, but will a medical trip in another country help to divert attention away from lack of clinical experience in a hospital setting?

 

[SFbiker]

Thanks, Adcom, for all the excellent advice so far.

I'm curious if you know anything about deferring admission for a year. I'm in the process of applying right now, but as September inches closer, I'm wondering if I could use another year off. (Life ends when you go to medical school, right? 🙂 )

I've heard that places are more willing to grant deferment to students who are coming directly from undergrad -- however, I've already taken 2 years off, and taking another would mean a third.

I'm just as excited as ever to pursue medicine, but I still feel like I've got more left to do before I enter medical school, i.e. travel, learn Spanish, see the world, live in a new city, etc.

I know that some schools right-off-the-bat don't allow deferments, but I'm curious if you can give any advice about the ones that do. More specifically, what do you think schools are looking for in a letter requesting a deferment? Any insight into how likely it is that I'll actually be granted one?

Any info about deferment would be much appreciated. Thanks so much!

 

[CV2MD]

Hello & thank you for your ongoing support to everyones questions.

(Im currently finishing up my AA at a College formally a Community College, but recently changed to a College.)

Now my question, I received 4 C's in past classes. Im always hearing how students retake these courses for better grades, but my college doesnt permit us to retake courses we received a C or better. Is there any way around it? Im not sure you will be able to answer my question considering you dont know the schools policy, but hey its a worth a shot to ask...
I just never thought 4 C's can lower a GPA and not permit anything higher then a 3.7 or so in my undergrad...=(

Thank you in advance,
CV

 

[Daydreamer2008]

Dear Adcoms,
I am a current 2007 applicant without any interviews so I am preparing myself to apply for the 2008 cycle. I made the mistake of initially applying to only 15 schools many of which were out of my reach, and adding schools in Oct/Nov. I have a 32P on my MCAT, 11V 11P 10B. My GPA's are both quite low, 3.4. But I have an upward trend after getting into my upper div's (all A's), and I also got my MPH with a 3.83 GPA. I also have NIH summer research experience, and am currently working as a Clinical Research Associate in radiation oncology.

My question for you is, how should I improve my application? Should I take more classes? And if so I don't think they will even show up on my AMCAS since my transcripts wouldn't be ready until June or so. What about my MCAT, should I try to improve upon that?

I am also starting to teach for MCAT prep company. Should I get more hands-on clinical experience? I worked with a homeless clinic for 3 years during undergrad, but nothing relevant in a hospital.

Thanks🙂

 

[NRGStar]

Thanks for the help, Adcoms.

I'm currently working on a masters in engineering, but I am strongly considering a shift to medicine. I've started some shadowing this quarter, and although I am insanely busy most of the time, I think I can make some room for a bit of volunteering, too. I'll need to take a year to take the bio and organic chemistry prereqs, since I concentrated in physical science, then I can take the MCAT and apply. My undergrad gpa was 3.6 and my grad gpa is about a 3.8 (from ucla and stanford, respectively). Any advice on what I can do right now or during my year of prereqs to strengthen my application? Let's just assume I do about average for matriculants on the MCAT, would I be a strong applicant?

 

[Phil Anthropist]

Hey guys, SDN's got a new policy--we need to close threads with 1000+ replies, so that the server doesn't slow down. One of you guys can start "ADCOMS: Semi-Solicited Advice Part II." 😉

I'll close this thread soon, but I'll be happy to stick the new thread.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

I'll create a new thread. Continuation of the ADCOM advice thread created here.