My sister thinks that nurses can do the job of pharmacists - and be better at it

[Moxxie]

My older sister is a registered nurse. She has her AA but is working on finishing her Bachelor's of nursing (she won't be done until Fall 2008). She's worked as an LPN, then an RN, for about 10 years.

We just had a bit of a fight about the knowledge base and responsibilities of an RN vs. a PharmD. I tried to argue that once I'm done with my education, I will be much better suited to come up with a patient plan - pharmacotherapy, monitoring, education, etc. - than she will. She says that although she doesn't have as much "book smarts" she has more experience and that she can diagnose, prescribe, and dose better than I can and that that is what nurses always do (that pharmacists just check her and the doctors' work).

I'll grant that at this point, she has much more patient experience than I do. But I think it's awfully dangerous that someone who has taken over 12 years to get a bachelor's degree thinks that she has a better knowledge base than a pharmacist. She argues that because she had 1/2 a semester on drugs she knows as much as I will. I think it's scary that she's changing doses and making recommendations in a hospital setting. It's also very disappointing that she thinks that nurses are much better suited to do this than pharmacists are.

What can I say/do to try to make the point that I'm not belittling her profession - I won't be the person to come to when it comes to many procedural things, basic (and advanced to some degree) patient care, etc. But I also need to let her know that she is just dead wrong when she thinks that her AA in nursing and a few years on the floor makes her just as knowledgeable as a clinically trained pharmacist.

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[Old Timer]

Why bother? There is nothing you can do to convince her. Just be secure enough in your knowledge so you can the job required of you and remember you don't have to change any bed pans....

 

[Epic]

1. Sorry, your sister is an idiot.
2. You will never win this argument...not worth it.
3. Tell her she right....but once you finish school...you can laugh all the way to the bank.
4. Tell her you love her.


Holidays bring about many heart attacks.... people see relatives they don't want to see...and the relatives they want to see don't show up to celebrate together. Families tend to annoy each other...and people get pissed off...... they eat a lot.... and their bp rises.... and throw a clot...

Oh joy.

 

[dr of rx]

typical nurse attitude.

get used to it.

 

[no-see-um]

No point arguing it. I agree with Epic on that. Pharmacists prove their worth with outcomes-based interventions which help patients, and cost savings- not debates.

 

[twester]

Poor nurses, they get the crappiest jobs, work their butts off and get little thanks for it. A lot of them develop inferiority complexes. She's just taking her frustration out on you, but would never say that to a pharmacist at work.

You should have had her explain the ins and outs of protein binding with phenytoin and the implications for its therapeutic range. If she couldn't - you dig out the white board I know you hide under the couch and do it for her. Tell her THAT is why you're on the medical team and you can provide her with a dozen or so other reasons. End of argument. Let's watch the game.

 

[krsnyf]

i have a lot of respect for nurses and the health care profession would not be able to do anything with out them. for certain, the doctors will be helpless w/o them.

however, i strongly disagree with your sister. nurses have a lot of responsibilities and if they have to do what pharmacists do too, they will screw up big time. i had hopsital IPPE this semester and most of it was shadowing nurses and pharmacists around. the nurses aren't as merticulous about drug interactions and they seem to be in automation mode. i don't want to stir up stuff but i think nurses believe they can do the pharmacist's job because most of the time, the pharmacists are in the basement.

is it me or most pharmacy dep's tend to be located in the basement of hopsitals? is it because we prefer to be closer to where the food is

 

[Pharmpills]

some nurses think they know more than Doctors. dosnt matter what ur sister thinks, as long as a pharm makes more than we r set

 

[bananaface]

Ask her to help you with your pharmacokinetics homework. That'll shut her right up.

 

[Pharmbabe]

I dont think its about who wears the fatter wallet or how long it took your sis to get her degree (that was a low blow btw...ouch). I think both fields are needed to be successful in patient planning...in fact maybe the two of you can collaborate and come up with a killer plan together rather than playing who has the better degree......hmmph

 

[Moxxie]

Ask her to help you with your pharmacokinetics homework. That'll shut her right up.

Ah, but that's book-learning. And it's not "relevant" to real hospital practice . It doesn't matter that a pharmacist has a deeper and broader knowledge base - she's seen it all and knows how to handle it.

Anyway, I think that it'll be alright. To tell you guys the truth, she isn't a crappy nurse. I just think that she oversteps her realm of practice because she can, and she assumes that all nurses can too.

Ah. Now off to a turkey and mashed-potato induced coma.

 

[LiveLoveFartRepeat]

Ah, but that's book-learning. And it's not "relevant" to real hospital practice . It doesn't matter that a pharmacist has a deeper and broader knowledge base - she's seen it all and knows how to handle it.

Anyway, I think that it'll be alright. To tell you guys the truth, she isn't a crappy nurse. I just think that she oversteps her realm of practice because she can, and she assumes that all nurses can too.

Ah. Now off to a turkey and mashed-potato induced coma.

That's not exactly book learning. You do actually use kinetic on rotation and in the real world. The only difference is you become better at "eyeballing" situations and numbers and you learn how to cut corners in using the equations to come up with your recommendations.

 

[MountainPharmD]

My older sister is a registered nurse. She has her AA but is working on finishing her Bachelor's of nursing (she won't be done until Fall 2008). She's worked as an LPN, then an RN, for about 10 years.

We just had a bit of a fight about the knowledge base and responsibilities of an RN vs. a PharmD. I tried to argue that once I'm done with my education, I will be much better suited to come up with a patient plan - pharmacotherapy, monitoring, education, etc. - than she will. She says that although she doesn't have as much "book smarts" she has more experience and that she can diagnose, prescribe, and dose better than I can and that that is what nurses always do (that pharmacists just check her and the doctors' work).

I'll grant that at this point, she has much more patient experience than I do. But I think it's awfully dangerous that someone who has taken over 12 years to get a bachelor's degree thinks that she has a better knowledge base than a pharmacist. She argues that because she had 1/2 a semester on drugs she knows as much as I will. I think it's scary that she's changing doses and making recommendations in a hospital setting. It's also very disappointing that she thinks that nurses are much better suited to do this than pharmacists are.

What can I say/do to try to make the point that I'm not belittling her profession - I won't be the person to come to when it comes to many procedural things, basic (and advanced to some degree) patient care, etc. But I also need to let her know that she is just dead wrong when she thinks that her AA in nursing and a few years on the floor makes her just as knowledgeable as a clinically trained pharmacist.

Sounds like someone who doesn't know enough to know they don't know enough. I also like the old saying "ignorance is bliss" for someone like this.

 

[soyroger]

Why didn't you just tell her how much better pharmacists are at giving vaccinations? Say it with a straight face and then brace yourself.

Too bad she took her ignorance out on you. I have a sister with an RN who is in school for her NP, but thankfully we totally respect each others career. Just take it all with a grain of salt.

 

[AmrieRX]

I also have a sister who is an RN and has been for quite a few years. I know she is very competent at what she does as I have been at the hospital with her many times. I don't have that argument because she has seen the amount of studying that I have had to do to become a PharmD. When she has a clinical or drug related question, she asks me, and I explain it to her. Then we end up talking about different situations and bore everyone to death who is not interested. If nothing else, I know it helps anytime she is giving out medication and doing discharge counseling.

 

[NewRx]

Why bother? There is nothing you can do to convince her. Just be secure enough in your knowledge so you can the job required of you and remember you don't have to change any bed pans....

If you had a loved one in a hospital (or you for that matter), incapacitated and your family was not around to help you with some basic things you used to do before, you would not have made your disparaging comment. There are good and bad nurses. This holds true in every profession. I hope you were not suggesting the OP to think of her own sister as being inferior to her because she's a nurse and she, a future pharmacist. A physician could tell you the usual: you've been counting pills for as long as you were a pharmacist. I know some very experienced pharmtechs in a retail store who'll say they could do your job. And you know what, the fact is, they'd be right!

Plz, no hard feelings intended and resist the temptation to turn this thread into a melee; I would not respond in kind.

Sincerely,

The Hopeful Romantic

 

[Old Timer]

Dear Hopeful Romantic:

It wasn't anything other than a descriptive fact. That's why I told the OP not to engage his/her sister as this would be a useless conversation. My sister in law is an RN and she and I get along fine. She knows a great deal about drugs but she knows she knows less than me and I know something about hands on patient care but I also know I don't know as much as her.

 

[Requiem]

. I know some very experienced pharmtechs in a retail store who'll say they could do your job. And you know what, the fact is, they'd be right!

Why even bother saying this to a pharmacy student/pharmacist forum? Especially as a "pre-pharmacy" student?

 

[MountainPharmD]

I know some very experienced pharmtechs in a retail store who'll say they could do your job. And you know what, the fact is, they'd be right!

A great example of the worst kind of pharm tech to work with. We all know the kind who thinks just because they have worked for the company X number years they know everyhting. Again an example of someone who doesn't know enough to know they don't know enough.

As a pre-pharmacy student you have no idea what the hell you are talking about so pipe down. You would be better off on this forum to read and learn and keep your uninformed comments to yourself.

 

[Pharmbabe]

Mountain PharmD


Indeed we do all know those types of CPhT's. It is really grating though as a Student Pharmacist because it seems you just dont get the learning environment you should when you are working with vindictive CPhT's that are less than eager to show you the ropes. I literally can only work when my preceptor is there because of this problem! Sheesh if it means that much to them they too can do the work and become a PharmD...until then get a grip!!!!

 

[NewRx]

A great example of the worst kind of pharm tech to work with. We all know the kind who thinks just because they have worked for the company X number years they know everyhting. Again an example of someone who doesn't know enough to know they don't know enough.

As a pre-pharmacy student you have no idea what the hell you are talking about so pipe down. You would be better off on this forum to read and learn and keep your uninformed comments to yourself.

lol you are funny! I'll remember that when I post. Hehe. MountainPharmD, relax. I was only writing figuratively. Of course, Pharmtech don't know as much as PharmDs. LOL. I wrote that because I wanted to show that nurses do much more than what Oldtimer referred to earlier. In fact other employees help more in that regard. However, nurses are trained to do it just like PharmD's are trained to count pills. What's wrong with that? LOL

Remember what your wrote on pharmacy application decades ago.... "to work together and provide the best care."

Hope you had a good thanksgiving dinner!

 

[babyfoxj]

hey..... easy~~~

I am a RN as well as pharmacist with Phram. D. Currently I am doing PGY I. Believe or not, I do agree with your sister that nurses know a lot more than you think. they will be a lot more familiar with adverse reactions of some medications. And, I am sure you know all about the pharmacology and pharmacokinetics ot all medications.

Nurses work hard. They know what they are doing! They concern about their patients.
My 12 yeras nursing career help me a lot. I have so many nurses and doctors friends. I know what they want. I know why a nurse want Colace STAT. Please do not underestimate your sister's career.

We should work as a team not blaming each other.

You and your sister can be a really good team. Be open-minded and talk to her without a judgemental attitude.

 

[piyi]

Mountain PharmD


Indeed we do all know those types of CPhT's. It is really grating though as a Student Pharmacist because it seems you just dont get the learning environment you should when you are working with vindictive CPhT's that are less than eager to show you the ropes. I literally can only work when my preceptor is there because of this problem! Sheesh if it means that much to them they too can do the work and become a PharmD...until then get a grip!!!!

I know what you mean, those pharmtechs can be so annoying. I am so thankful I don't have one (yet) at my current site; I probably just lucked out. I mean, seriously I just don't see what their problem is. No one is forcing them to be a pharmacy technician; if they hate their job that much they should quit.

Ok, I can sort of see their point of view if they are the ones training you at paid position (because it always sucks to be training someone that's making more than you; that's a pretty crappy situation); but hello---we are not getting paid when we're working at our IPPE sites. So I just wish all those pharmacy technicians would not be so annoying when we're at our IPPE sites; if they're that jealous, they should go back to school and become a pharmacist.

 

[Ethyl Methyl]

I know why a nurse want Colace STAT.

Sorry if this is off topic but, can you give the reason why nurses want colace STAT. Just curious...maybe if I know I won't be slamming the phone down so hard .

 

[StallionRx]

One of my final projects on my last rotation was to educate nurses on simple pharm material in order for them to pass an annual exam. To say that their knowledge base is equivalent to a PharmD is ludacris.

Some nurses had more understanding than others, but lets just say I didnt walk away impressed on how much they knew initially; it was actually completely the opposite. Common daily meds that were being given to patients many had no idea how they worked or even what they were indicated for.

This was no small sample size of nurses either. I did this once weekly for a group of at least 15 - 30 nurses for about 8 weeks.


I respect nurses alot- but you have to know your boundaries. Im sure in patient contact and care they could school just about anybody, but leave the drugs and therapy to the people that received years of education on them, not 1/2 a semester.

This is not a stab at nurses as I feel they are a VITAL part to the health care system, but if I was in the original posters situation I would completely laugh that comment off as it really isnt worth wasting your breath.

 

[babyfoxj]

Sorry if this is off topic but, can you give the reason why nurses want colace STAT. Just curious...maybe if I know I won't be slamming the phone down so hard .

you work as a nurse one day, you will know the answer

 

[Ethyl Methyl]

you work as a nurse one day, you will know the answer

Dang! I don't have plans of becoming a nurse . Oh well, I'll still try not to slam the phone down too hard...after all, nurses get burnt the most already . I respect nurses for all the crap they have to deal with everyday on the floor.

 

[babyfoxj]

Dang! I don't have plans of becoming a nurse . Oh well, I'll still try not to slam the phone down too hard...after all, nurses get burnt the most already . I respect nurses for all the crap they have to deal with everyday on the floor.

A nurse want Colace STAT because .....

Family member threatened to chock the poor nurse's neck......
many many family members are very inpatient, and they want something to be done yesterday.

if not done....

they want to talk to the nursing supervisor, hospital administrator, pharmacy director...... they want to sue the hospital ...... make everybody miserable...

this poor nurse probably did her best to calm family member down and didn't work.


So please save her life next time . she will appriciate it.

 

[Ethyl Methyl]

A nurse want Colace STAT because .....

Family member threatened to chock the poor nurse's neck......
many many family members are very inpatient, and they want something to be done yesterday.

if not done....

they want to talk to the nursing supervisor, hospital administrator, pharmacy director...... they want to sue the hospital ...... make everybody miserable...

this poor nurse probably did her best to calm family member down and didn't work.


So please save her life next time . she will appriciate it.

LOL, that is too funny! Alright, I'll save a nurse's life when I go to work this weekend. Just because you asked nicely

 

[npage148]

A nurse want Colace STAT because .....

Family member threatened to chock the poor nurse's neck......
many many family members are very inpatient, and they want something to be done yesterday.

if not done....

they want to talk to the nursing supervisor, hospital administrator, pharmacy director...... they want to sue the hospital ...... make everybody miserable...

this poor nurse probably did her best to calm family member down and didn't work.


So please save her life next time . she will appriciate it.

Your issues handling a patient's family becomes an emergency for the pharmacist?

 

[JerryPharmD]

I'm starting to wonder what will be a bigger threat to my career.. the nurse who will take my job or the dispensing cabinet they will replace me with.

I've been lucky in that all the nurses that I have talked to realize that they cannot do the job of a pharmacist without more training just as I cannot do the job of a nurse either (without more training).

 

[fungikid]

I just think that she oversteps her realm of practice because she can, and she assumes that all nurses can too.

I have quite a few friends in Nursing and I have a lot of respect for them. Often times, nurses don't get enough credit for what they know and what they do.

Nonetheless, what your sister is doing sounds really dangerous to both herself, and more importantly, her patients.

 

[Moxxie]

A nurse want Colace STAT because .....

Family member threatened to chock the poor nurse's neck......
many many family members are very inpatient, and they want something to be done yesterday.

if not done....

they want to talk to the nursing supervisor, hospital administrator, pharmacy director...... they want to sue the hospital ...... make everybody miserable...

this poor nurse probably did her best to calm family member down and didn't work.


So please save her life next time . she will appriciate it.

I still somehow think that numerous IVs, psych meds, heck even restocking crash carts is more important than getting grandpa to poop. But then again, I'm not a nurse, so I don't know.

I have quite a few friends in Nursing and I have a lot of respect for them. Often times, nurses don't get enough credit for what they know and what they do.

Nonetheless, what your sister is doing sounds really dangerous to both herself, and more importantly, her patients.

Oh, I definitely agree - there is no way that most hospital floors could function without nurses. They are integral to patient care and we should be appreciative of them.

But what my sister says she does is come up with a med list, a PT schedule, etc, and then just has the doctor sign off on it. (This is for discharge instructions). I think that this is not only dangerous, but also lazy on the doctor's part.

That's not exactly book learning. You do actually use kinetic on rotation and in the real world. The only difference is you become better at "eyeballing" situations and numbers and you learn how to cut corners in using the equations to come up with your recommendations.

Again, I agree - but in my sister's eyes (I don't know about other nurses) all drugs are either straight dosed or perhaps dosed in mg/kg. She has no idea about gentamycin peaks and troughs, how protein binding affects drugs, or even how to adjust dosing in renal failure. She's either completely unaware of it or thinks that if it's from a textbook and not her own experience, it doesn't have merit.

She puts down evidence-based medicine as well, saying that it is just a collection of scientific facts and that they don't reflect real life. I tried to point out to her that EBM is based on real-life outcomes and quality of care standards, but to her anecdotal evidence has more weight.

I'd love to work with her so that we can both improve our respective practices, but at this point she's too stubborn and ignorant and I'm too disgusted to work it out. Oh well.

But I like this discussion. Keep it up!

 

[Ethyl Methyl]

I still somehow think that numerous IVs, psych meds, heck even restocking crash carts is more important than getting grandpa to poop. But then again, I'm not a nurse, so I don't know.

It's STAT because a nurse will die in 15 mins if grandpa does not get his colace soon.

 

[andrewattheU]

If you had a loved one in a hospital (or you for that matter), incapacitated and your family was not around to help you with some basic things you used to do before, you would not have made your disparaging comment. There are good and bad nurses. This holds true in every profession. I hope you were not suggesting the OP to think of her own sister as being inferior to her because she's a nurse and she, a future pharmacist. A physician could tell you the usual: you've been counting pills for as long as you were a pharmacist. I know some very experienced pharmtechs in a retail store who'll say they could do your job. And you know what, the fact is, they'd be right!

Plz, no hard feelings intended and resist the temptation to turn this thread into a melee; I would not respond in kind.

Sincerely,

The Hopeful Romantic

lol you must have not spent very much time around a pharmacy. You can tell the difference between pharm techs and pharmacists very easily... The pharmacists are the ones that actually know how the drug interacts with the body

 

[Foghorn]

Off topic: Anyone know what the job outlook will be for PharmDs in 4-5 years? Will it be an in demand profession or will the job market be saturated with PharmDs (depending on location)?

 

[andrewattheU]

Off topic: Anyone know what the job outlook will be for PharmDs in 4-5 years? Will it be an in demand profession or will the job market be saturated with PharmDs (depending on location)?

here you go straight from the AACP website:

Dramatic Rise in Need for Pharmacists Projected A shortfall of as many as 157,000 pharmacists is predicted by 2020 according to the findings of a conference sponsored by the Pharmacy Manpower Project, Inc. Complete findings are detailed in the final report, "Professionally Determined Need for Pharmacy Services in 2020."
In December 2000, Health Resources and Services Administration (HRSA) of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) released a report, The Pharmacy Workforce: A Study of the Supply and Demand for Pharmacists. This report, mandated by Congress, was conducted to determine whether and to what extent a shortage of pharmacists exists. The report concludes that there is an increasing demand for pharmacists' service that is outpacing the current and possibly future pharmacist supply. This conclusion is based largely on the growth of vacant positions across the entire range of pharmacy practice sites. "While the overall supply of pharmacists has increased in the past decade, there has been an unprecedented demand for pharmacists and for pharmaceutical care services, which has not been met by the currently available supply," the report says. The report also states that factors causing the shortage are not likely to abate in the near future.






YES IT WILL BE AN IN DEMAND PROFESSION

 

[Foghorn]

here you go straight from the AACP website:

Dramatic Rise in Need for Pharmacists Projected A shortfall of as many as 157,000 pharmacists is predicted by 2020 according to the findings of a conference sponsored by the Pharmacy Manpower Project, Inc. Complete findings are detailed in the final report, "Professionally Determined Need for Pharmacy Services in 2020."
In December 2000, Health Resources and Services Administration (HRSA) of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) released a report, The Pharmacy Workforce: A Study of the Supply and Demand for Pharmacists. This report, mandated by Congress, was conducted to determine whether and to what extent a shortage of pharmacists exists. The report concludes that there is an increasing demand for pharmacists' service that is outpacing the current and possibly future pharmacist supply. This conclusion is based largely on the growth of vacant positions across the entire range of pharmacy practice sites. "While the overall supply of pharmacists has increased in the past decade, there has been an unprecedented demand for pharmacists and for pharmaceutical care services, which has not been met by the currently available supply," the report says. The report also states that factors causing the shortage are not likely to abate in the near future.

YES IT WILL BE AN IN DEMAND PROFESSION

Thanks for the reference.

 

[no-see-um]

Pharmacists should be in demand for at least another 10 years... *edit* Just saw that article posted. It backs me up!

But if they keep opening up pharm schools left and right, who knows... Still, there's billions of Rxs to fill each year and many hospitals out there. AND you have a retiring baby-boomer population. Pharmacists may always be in demand...

 

[piyi]

But if they keep opening up pharm schools left and right, who knows... Still, there's billions of Rxs to fill each year and many hospitals out there. AND you have a retiring baby-boomer population. Pharmacists may always be in demand...

I think another thing that helps is that a good percentage of pharmacy students are women (at least in my school, and I believe this seems to be the case in some other pharmacy schools too)... and many (or at least some) of them will work part time at some point in their careers. I know that I will want to eventually work part time, and pharmacy is a great career for that since it allows so much flexibility. Also it is one of the few careers that I know of (maybe the only one actually... that I know of) where you can get benefits and still work part time; to me, that seems to be such a great incentive for women who are planning to have children and want to take time out of work to raise them (or even for people who just want to work part time like me).

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

I think another thing that helps is that a good percentage of pharmacy students are women (at least in my school, and I believe this seems to be the case in some other pharmacy schools too)... and many (or at least some) of them will work part time at some point in their careers. I know that I will want to eventually work part time, and pharmacy is a great career for that since it allows so much flexibility. Also it is one of the few careers that I know of (maybe the only one actually... that I know of) where you can get benefits and still work part time; to me, that seems to be such a great incentive for women who are planning to have children and want to take time out of work to raise them (or even for people who just want to work part time like me).

I am not sure how much experience you have with the pharmacy world even though I know you have been around for a while. Even though there are more women in the field, that does not mean they work more part time per se. For example, once you get out of school, you will probably be working full time to pay off your school debts. In addition, unless you found a nice rich husband, you will probably continue to work full time so you can start off your family better. All of my female colleagues work full time. The only exception that I see from this is maternal leave.
In terms of benefits, most places require you to work at least 30 hours to qualify.

One thing that I notice that is stopping pharmacists from working more is the tax rate. Most phamacists are raking in 120k average for 3-4 day shifts (say in CVS or Rite Aid). In addition, they can expect another 10 to 20k from their investments minimum/and bonus. If they were to pick up another shift at work, their salary can skyrocket. I think for at least the federal tax rate, if you make more than 170k, your tax bracket increases by about 5-6 percent. I remember a paycheck where working another 13 hours only get 100$ on that check after tax. Totally not worth it.

 

[piyi]

I am not sure how much experience you have with the pharmacy world even though I know you have been around for a while. Even though there are more women in the field, that does not mean they work more part time per se. For example, once you get out of school, you will probably be working full time to pay off your school debts. In addition, unless you found a nice rich husband, you will probably continue to work full time so you can start off your family better. All of my female colleagues work full time. The only exception that I see from this is maternal leave.
In terms of benefits, most places require you to work at least 30 hours to qualify.
quote]

Hmm... that's strange... there's a few pharmacists I know of that work part time (all women), but that was in the midwest, so maybe it's more common there. Yeah, I know at the pharmacies where I work at now in Las Vegas, almost everyone works full time (there was one older pharmacist that was part time, but he retired soon after I started).

That's what I was thinking of when I said part-time: 30 hours (for Sav-On it used to be 28 hours, but I don't know if it's still like that in the Sav-Ons that are left since they were bought out by a different company); then you can work three ten-hour days (many of the pharmacists I worked with worked four ten-hour days; I think that would still be nice to have three days off during the week, but four days off would seem more like part time... at least to me it would).

 

[NewRx]

I was only writing figuratively. Of course, Pharmtech don't know as much as PharmDs. LOL. I wrote that because I wanted to show that nurses do much more than what Oldtimer referred to earlier. In fact other employees help more in that regard. However, nurses are trained to do it just like PharmD's are trained to count pills. What's wrong with that? LOL

Remember what your wrote on pharmacy application decades ago.... "to work together and provide the best care."

Hope you had a good thanksgiving dinner!

lol you must have not spent very much time around a pharmacy. You can tell the difference between pharm techs and pharmacists very easily... The pharmacists are the ones that actually know how the drug interacts with the body

Please see above. They do know and they better! However, the stereotypes continue. Here is just a few to embellish your repertoire:

Nursing and bed pans.
Pharmacists and pill bottles.
Dentists (all they do is pull teeth) "Pull your own teeth then"
DO (osteopathic) < MD
General Practitioner < Internist<(?) OB/GYN < neurologist < surgeon < neurosurgeon.

We are reinventing the wheel.

 

[bananaface]

I am not sure how much experience you have with the pharmacy world even though I know you have been around for a while. Even though there are more women in the field, that does not mean they work more part time per se. For example, once you get out of school, you will probably be working full time to pay off your school debts. In addition, unless you found a nice rich husband, you will probably continue to work full time so you can start off your family better. All of my female colleagues work full time. The only exception that I see from this is maternal leave.
In terms of benefits, most places require you to work at least 30 hours to qualify.
quote]

Hmm... that's strange... there's a few pharmacists I know of that work part time (all women), but that was in the midwest, so maybe it's more common there. Yeah, I know at the pharmacies where I work at now in Las Vegas, almost everyone works full time (there was one older pharmacist that was part time, but he retired soon after I started).

That's what I was thinking of when I said part-time: 30 hours (for Sav-On it used to be 28 hours, but I don't know if it's still like that in the Sav-Ons that are left since they were bought out by a different company); then you can work three ten-hour days (many of the pharmacists I worked with worked four ten-hour days; I think that would still be nice to have three days off during the week, but four days off would seem more like part time... at least to me it would).

I've known quite a few female pharmacists who work part time as well. It's nice to be able to work part time and still pull in a decent amount of money.

 

[genesis09]

A recent survey about pharmacist working habits stated about 15-20% of pharmacists are working part time, and that is a significant increase from the previous survey. Also, the average FTE of all pharmacists is decreasing.

 

[sakigt]

Anything said to a sibling that starts with "I can do this better than you...." is a sure way to get inot a battle.

 

[cel083]

Please see above. They do know and they better! However, the stereotypes continue. Here is just a few to embellish your repertoire:

Nursing and bed pans.
Pharmacists and pill bottles.
Dentists (all they do is pull teeth) "Pull your own teeth then"
DO (osteopathic) < MD
General Practitioner < Internist<(?) OB/GYN < neurologist < surgeon < neurosurgeon.

We are reinventing the wheel.

Internist<OB/GYN?? That is a sterotype?! Never heard of it.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I actually *can* do everything better than my sister. I got the brains, she got the...wait, I got the looks, too. Damn, that **** is unfair....

 

[gotdrugs]

here you go straight from the AACP website:

Dramatic Rise in Need for Pharmacists Projected A shortfall of as many as 157,000 pharmacists is predicted by 2020 according to the findings of a conference sponsored by the Pharmacy Manpower Project, Inc. Complete findings are detailed in the final report, "Professionally Determined Need for Pharmacy Services in 2020."
In December 2000, Health Resources and Services Administration (HRSA) of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) released a report, The Pharmacy Workforce: A Study of the Supply and Demand for Pharmacists. This report, mandated by Congress, was conducted to determine whether and to what extent a shortage of pharmacists exists. The report concludes that there is an increasing demand for pharmacists' service that is outpacing the current and possibly future pharmacist supply. This conclusion is based largely on the growth of vacant positions across the entire range of pharmacy practice sites. "While the overall supply of pharmacists has increased in the past decade, there has been an unprecedented demand for pharmacists and for pharmaceutical care services, which has not been met by the currently available supply," the report says. The report also states that factors causing the shortage are not likely to abate in the near future.






YES IT WILL BE AN IN DEMAND PROFESSION

Sorry to jump into this post late, but I have read this report.....

You have misquoted part of it, it NEVER states there will be an unprecedented DEMAND for pharmacists/pharmacy services, but and unprecendented NEED as per the opinions of the people of the task force.

Why do I bring this up? The task force explicitly brings it up to say that this report was the group's professionally-determined need and not what the health-care system/society in general will demand.

There are many factors that will influce demand and therefore the ACTUAL increase of positions that the task force projects are needed (in their own professional opinion).
The first and foremost of these factors is whether or not pharmacists will start getting reimbursed for cognitive services and/or become Medicare Part B providers. If this does not happen you will not see the increase in clinical positions that the task force states there is a need for. I know from personal experience as having to try to justify new clinical pharmacists positions annually in the health-system I work at. It is a VERY tough sell, because at current salaries you are talking about adding ~150K to the bottom line for every FTE when you factor in not only salary but benefits. The financial people see that and see that these clinical services do not generate revenue to support that cost.

Not trying to be a debbie-downer or a chicken-little, but if you are using that report to "prove" that pharmacy will be ok in the future, I would suggest reading how David Knapp and the other members on the project came up with those numbers.

 

[FruitFly]

Sorry to jump into this post late, but I have read this report.....

You have misquoted part of it, it NEVER states there will be an unprecedented DEMAND for pharmacists/pharmacy services, but and unprecendented NEED as per the opinions of the people of the task force.

Why do I bring this up? The task force explicitly brings it up to say that this report was the group's professionally-determined need and not what the health-care system/society in general will demand.

There are many factors that will influce demand and therefore the ACTUAL increase of positions that the task force projects are needed (in their own professional opinion).
The first and foremost of these factors is whether or not pharmacists will start getting reimbursed for cognitive services and/or become Medicare Part B providers. If this does not happen you will not see the increase in clinical positions that the task force states there is a need for. I know from personal experience as having to try to justify new clinical pharmacists positions annually in the health-system I work at. It is a VERY tough sell, because at current salaries you are talking about adding ~150K to the bottom line for every FTE when you factor in not only salary but benefits. The financial people see that and see that these clinical services do not generate revenue to support that cost.

Not trying to be a debbie-downer or a chicken-little, but if you are using that report to "prove" that pharmacy will be ok in the future, I would suggest reading how David Knapp and the other members on the project came up with those numbers.

Very interesting... Since when did need in health care ever become a demand? I'd give a few examples, with regards to some of the 'lifestyle' medical specialties, etc, patients are still in rural areas without being served.The sad thing is that patient care is not need-based these days, and there are many factors (like medicaid reimbursement, etc) which silence what should be a direct demand.