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poker

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Ok so im a yr 3/4 med stu looking into anesthesia, i was just wondering wat u guys think about my stats/ chances to make a spot to a mildly comp. residency program:


Step 1 - 230
step 2 - not taken

gen surg - high pass
peds - high pass
Internal med - sat pass😱
fam med - sat pass😱
ob - sat pass:scared:
Anesthesia roat - pending😕

I have 2-3 research projects with pending publications on 2.
some volunteering stuff

because of my sat passes do u think i should work hard for step 2?

Thanks in advance for the in put,

David
 
because of my sat passes do u think i should work hard for step 2?
David
Would you not work hard for step 2 otherwise? If you wouldn't, please don't apply to my residency program. Instead, if you are asking if you need a super-high step 2 score to make up for a "sat pass", you'll have to let me know what a "sat pass" means.
 
you are not very helpful nor was your comment productive

sat pass means: the grade that i got on a rotation

if anyone else has input it would be greatly appreciated.

-David
 
we know it's the grade you got but is it like a low pass? what does "sat" mean? satisfactory? is the grade below "sat pass", failure? So that mean you got a C in those rotations if it was converted to the standard A,B,C,F model?
 
honors- A
high pass- B
sat pass - C

David
 
Don't you know everyone on this forum has a step one score of >250???

You are destined to work at BP, selling beer and cigs to other common folk!
 
I would say that with your stats the "Sat Pass" wont be an issue.

However, if your attitude here is reflective of your true behavior I would worry. The most important thing to everyone is that their residents can get along with people (each other, OR staff, surgeons, etc). Your brisk responses to a very fair question from someone who was kind enough to answer you despite not even knowing you was a-- h-le like.

There is your answer
 
Ok so im a yr 3/4 med stu looking into anesthesia, i was just wondering wat u guys think about my stats/ chances to make a spot to a mildly comp. residency program:


Step 1 - 230
step 2 - not taken

gen surg - high pass
peds - high pass
Internal med - sat pass😱
fam med - sat pass😱
ob - sat pass:scared:
Anesthesia roat - pending😕

I have 2-3 research projects with pending publications on 2.
some volunteering stuff

because of my sat passes do u think i should work hard for step 2?

Thanks in advance for the in put,

David


Hello David,

Congratulation on your upcoming 3rd year completion.

Consider these two publications by the NRMP to estimate the importance of various factors & your competitiveness:

1)http://www.nrmp.org/data/programresultsbyspecialty.pdf
Results of the 2008 NRMP Program Director Survey (PDF, 144 pages) This report presents the results of selected items from the 2008 NRMP Program Director Survey. Data are reported for 19 specialties and include: (1) factors used for granting interviews and ranking applicants; (2) use of USMLE exam scores; and (3) the percentage of interview slots filled prior to the November 1 release date of the MSPE.

2)http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2007.pdf
Characteristics of Applicants Who Matched to Their Preferred Specialty in the 2007 NRMP Main Residency Match (2nd edition) (PDF, 139 pages)
This report casts light on how applicant qualifications affect match success.

My 2 cents - You have a shot at matching at a mildly competitive residency. Apply early. Rock step 2. Get good letters. Be personable during interviews. Research not that important (May be more important as Anesthesiology is getting quite competitive).

Good luck! 👍
 
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Ok so im a yr 3/4 med stu looking into anesthesia, i was just wondering wat u guys think about my stats/ chances to make a spot to a mildly comp. residency program:


Step 1 - 230
step 2 - not taken

gen surg - high pass
peds - high pass
Internal med - sat pass😱
fam med - sat pass😱
ob - sat pass:scared:
Anesthesia roat - pending😕

I have 2-3 research projects with pending publications on 2.
some volunteering stuff

because of my sat passes do u think i should work hard for step 2?

Thanks in advance for the in put,

David

lfesiam gave some great advice. How'd you do 1st and 2nd year?

Check out the NRMP data to see how you match up compared with other applicants.

How will your recommendations look? There's still a lot to be determined for you as far as your application goes so you've got a lot of work ahead of you. You need to study hard and do well on Step 2. I'm assuming your 1st and 2nd year grades are solid. Apply widely and rock your interviews.

As far as your actual question, if I were you I'd study really hard for Step 2 and score as best as I could. I don't see a reason not to, so good luck.
 
You're fine. Anesthesiology is one of the least competitive matches no matter what anyone says here on this forum. I mean no disrespect to anyone here by saying this (after all, I'm considering gas as a career, as well), but the numbers speak for themselves.

You've gotten some good advice so far. Work on getting to know some people in the department at your school and start a research project with someone if you're genuinely interested in it. Letters and connections will matter much more than you think (or so I hear).
 
You're fine. Anesthesiology is one of the least competitive matches no matter what anyone says here on this forum. I mean no disrespect to anyone here by saying this (after all, I'm considering gas as a career, as well), but the numbers speak for themselves.

You've gotten some good advice so far. Work on getting to know some people in the department at your school and start a research project with someone if you're genuinely interested in it. Letters and connections will matter much more than you think (or so I hear).

Least competitive? I don't know if the stats bear that out.

And, it's not just about "matching", but matching where you want to be. Having said that, poker will undoubtedly match... somewhere.

-copro
 
Least competitive? I don't know if the stats bear that out.

And, it's not just about "matching", but matching where you want to be. Having said that, poker will undoubtedly match... somewhere.

-copro

Your point with regards to matching where you want to be is well taken. That's true for any specialty, no matter how competitive.

As per the absolute competitiveness of anesthesiology, there are a ton of spots and the 2007 NRMP match data demonstrates that the average Step 1 score of matched, home grown anesthesiology applicants is on the lower end of the spectrum of all specialties. If you just want to match, anesthesiology is one of the easiest matches. If you want to go somewhere specific or to one of the top programs, as copro pointed out, that's another story.

People here and elsewhere blow anesthesiology's competitiveness out of proportion.
 
You're fine. Anesthesiology is one of the least competitive matches no matter what anyone says here on this forum.

All well and good, but it won't make you feel any less nervous when it comes time for you to match.

You just have to work hard, play nice, and things will work out.
 
thank you everyone for the responses. They have all been very very helpful.

My year one and two grades are all As and Bs. I am a very personable person and i have a couple of LORs lined up. One will definitely be a solid one from an IM doc.

I have yet to do my Anesthesiology rotation which i will def. get a LOR from.

From what is written and what i read on the posted pdfs (btw thanks a bunch) i looks as though i should not have a problem matching "somewhere" (knock on wood), however, when i stated "mildly competitive" i was trying to tease out if i can being to "pick" locations that i may like. I am looking at larger cities: Miami, NY, chicago, Atlanta, Calafornia (LA or SD). I dont necessarily want to be in a TOP porgram but atleast in a larger city in a prog with a recononazible name.

Once again, thanks for the help in advance.

David
 
i was trying to tease out if i can being to "pick" locations that i may like. I am looking at larger cities: Miami, NY, chicago, Atlanta, Calafornia (LA or SD). I dont necessarily want to be in a TOP porgram but atleast in a larger city in a prog with a recononazible name.

Once again, thanks for the help in advance.

David

Chicago: yes
Atlanta: yes
NY: probably
Cali: maybe
Miami: learn Spanish
 
just out of curiosity - why do you guys say that he would need to rock step 2 if his step 1 is 230?

i was told by my mentor (and other residents) that as long as you get above 230, then you should be okay - in a sense that you would be able to get into some high end of middle tier school (not sure what would be a good example, so i am totally guessing here, say, NYU or Northwestern)...given that the rest of your application is somewhat solid??
 
Chicago: yes
Atlanta: yes
NY: probably
Cali: maybe
Miami: learn Spanish

AGREED gimlet. espanol espanol espanol, es muy importante para miami. mi espanol es muy muy mal. mi AP spanish = 1 since I mixed in ingles with espanol during el exam. :meanie: but...me gusta florida. bueno weather y beaches. and of course...DISNEY WORLD.
 
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From your writing style and grammar, I suspect you enjoy texting. Have someone look over your personal statements and other application materials to specifically ensure that you don't let any of it slip through. A nice, polished statement may not help much, but and unpolished one will definitely hurt.

If English isn't your native language, work on a good, understandable American accent as seen on national news programs. It'll help in the interviews.

Finally, make sure there is nothing written about interpersonal problems in your written evaluations. Those are red flags for program directors. Aside from family medicine, anesthesiologists seem to be the most friendly group of doctors with which to work. They place a great deal of importance on how well you get along with others.
 
2007 NRMP match data demonstrates that the average Step 1 score of matched, home grown anesthesiology applicants is on the lower end of the spectrum of all specialties. If you just want to match, anesthesiology is one of the easiest matches. If you want to go somewhere specific or to one of the top programs, as copro pointed out, that's another story.

People here and elsewhere blow anesthesiology's competitiveness out of proportion.

I'm not going to get into a pointless argument, but I could make a reasonable counter-argument using the same data. It's reasonable to say anesthesiology is on par with EM, rads, and OB regards to number of positions available and number of US seniors who fail to match. It's also above most specialties with regards to ranks per applicant. And based on what I heard this year from PDs and program coordinators while on the interview circuit, anesthesiology has gotten more competitive each year over the past several years.

For a specific applicant who desires a specific region with above avg Step 1, considering attempting a layup for Step 2, average grades, and unknown recommendations, I don't think it'll be easy.

I do agree that people here blow the competitiveness out of proportion.
 
just out of curiosity - why do you guys say that he would need to rock step 2 if his step 1 is 230?

i was told by my mentor (and other residents) that as long as you get above 230, then you should be okay - in a sense that you would be able to get into some high end of middle tier school (not sure what would be a good example, so i am totally guessing here, say, NYU or Northwestern)...given that the rest of your application is somewhat solid??

if this person pops a 210 on Step 2 they'll stress a lot more than they want, and could very likely be disappointed on match day. The PDs who'll judge this person's Step scores understand if you do well on one board exam there's no reason not to do well on another unless you just didn't put in the work, which would be a red flag.
 
Your point with regards to matching where you want to be is well taken. That's true for any specialty, no matter how competitive.

As per the absolute competitiveness of anesthesiology, there are a ton of spots and the 2007 NRMP match data demonstrates that the average Step 1 score of matched, home grown anesthesiology applicants is on the lower end of the spectrum of all specialties. If you just want to match, anesthesiology is one of the easiest matches. If you want to go somewhere specific or to one of the top programs, as copro pointed out, that's another story.

People here and elsewhere blow anesthesiology's competitiveness out of proportion.


So if an SGU grad (better carrib school) had above average scores (i think our school said our avg is 210) like a 220 and everything else was sound (not to say stellar) could they feel comfortable matching some where (obviously not a top top spot)...?

I m still an M2, got a few months before board time..👍
 
So if an SGU grad (better carrib school) had above average scores (i think our school said our avg is 210) like a 220 and everything else was sound (not to say stellar) could they feel comfortable matching some where (obviously not a top top spot)...?

I m still an M2, got a few months before board time..👍

I'm not so sure I would feel comfortable matching anesthesia as an FMG in 2 yrs. Certainly not with an average step (usually 218 or so). You're not trying to beat the mean of your school- you're trying to beat the mean of everyone else applying. I would shoot for something like 230.
 
I'm not so sure I would feel comfortable matching anesthesia as an FMG in 2 yrs. Certainly not with an average step (usually 218 or so). You're not trying to beat the mean of your school- you're trying to beat the mean of everyone else applying. I would shoot for something like 230.

Ya I know that as an FMG (US citizen my entire life) that i ll have to do above average for whatever the scores are for any particular program...and I also know that I have to aim for as high as possible USMLE (working hard this year so far and my grades are usually well above the means in my courses; aim is 230+ on step1)..but lets say I fall slightly short of it and get a 220ish score.. would it be difficult to match at a lower tier program? I m assuming that even at lower tier programs you will still be trained to be a competent anesthesiologist and do private practice/clinical work (though being at an academic institution maybe less likely post residency)...

I know there is a lot of talk about the top tier and upper middle tier programs on SDN but what about those programs that are lower tier or lower mid tier? Are they more open?

Thanks👍
 
Finally, make sure there is nothing written about interpersonal problems in your written evaluations. Those are red flags for program directors. Aside from family medicine, anesthesiologists seem to be the most friendly group of doctors with which to work. They place a great deal of importance on how well you get along with others.

So true. They had a poll for our school's yearbook this year, and Anesthesiology was voted to be the service with the nicest residents. Won by a landslide, actually. Made me really proud to be joining that group.
 
Ya I know that as an FMG (US citizen my entire life) that i ll have to do above average for whatever the scores are for any particular program...and I also know that I have to aim for as high as possible USMLE (working hard this year so far and my grades are usually well above the means in my courses; aim is 230+ on step1)..but lets say I fall slightly short of it and get a 220ish score.. would it be difficult to match at a lower tier program? I m assuming that even at lower tier programs you will still be trained to be a competent anesthesiologist and do private practice/clinical work (though being at an academic institution maybe less likely post residency)...

I know there is a lot of talk about the top tier and upper middle tier programs on SDN but what about those programs that are lower tier or lower mid tier? Are they more open?

Thanks👍

Even with the 230, you will likely be limited to lower tier schools, unless there is some amazing quality to your application that outshines the FMG status. The number of programs that are "FMG friendly" is not that large. You'll be starting off with a handicap. Any additional perceived weakness may lead to disappointment.

I would say that a lower tier program may provide you the experience to become a competent anesthesiologist, but you will have to take things into your own hands. The faculty will not be as accessible or as facile with teaching. It's not to say there are no good anesthesiologists coming from those programs, just that the good ones are good because they took their education into their own hands. I know you can say that about any resident at any program, but better programs provide you with the resources you need. You have to find your resources at the other ones.
 
Ya I know that as an FMG (US citizen my entire life) that i ll have to do above average for whatever the scores are for any particular program...and I also know that I have to aim for as high as possible USMLE (working hard this year so far and my grades are usually well above the means in my courses; aim is 230+ on step1)..but lets say I fall slightly short of it and get a 220ish score.. would it be difficult to match at a lower tier program? I m assuming that even at lower tier programs you will still be trained to be a competent anesthesiologist and do private practice/clinical work (though being at an academic institution maybe less likely post residency)...

I know there is a lot of talk about the top tier and upper middle tier programs on SDN but what about those programs that are lower tier or lower mid tier? Are they more open?

Thanks👍

I think doing aways at places you would really like to attend and getting letters from those places will carry you a long ways, because they will have worked with you and get an idea of how you will function in their program. (i.e., how well you play in the sand box with others and your basic level of knowledge)
 
I'm not so sure I would feel comfortable matching anesthesia as an FMG in 2 yrs. Certainly not with an average step (usually 218 or so). You're not trying to beat the mean of your school- you're trying to beat the mean of everyone else applying. I would shoot for something like 230.

but the above post suggested that you still need to rock step 2 even if you have 230 (even if you are NOT FMG)...?
 
but the above post suggested that you still need to rock step 2 even if you have 230 (even if you are NOT FMG)...?

My advice on this thread was for an FMG. An AMG with a 230 and then a 210 would match Anesthesia. An FMG may have problems.
 
Hello David,

Congratulation on your upcoming 3rd year completion.

Consider these two publications by the NRMP to estimate the importance of various factors & your competitiveness:

1)http://www.nrmp.org/data/programresultsbyspecialty.pdf
Results of the 2008 NRMP Program Director Survey (PDF, 144 pages) This report presents the results of selected items from the 2008 NRMP Program Director Survey. Data are reported for 19 specialties and include: (1) factors used for granting interviews and ranking applicants; (2) use of USMLE exam scores; and (3) the percentage of interview slots filled prior to the November 1 release date of the MSPE.

2)http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2007.pdf
Characteristics of Applicants Who Matched to Their Preferred Specialty in the 2007 NRMP Main Residency Match (2nd edition) (PDF, 139 pages)
This report casts light on how applicant qualifications affect match success.

My 2 cents - You have a shot at matching at a mildly competitive residency. Apply early. Rock step 2. Get good letters. Be personable during interviews. Research not that important (May be more important as Anesthesiology is getting quite competitive).

Good luck! 👍


http://journals.lww.com/academicmed..._Criteria_for_Residency__Results_of_a.24.aspx

This is a newer article about residency interview selection criteria; anesthesia had a pretty good response rate. Interesting to see that this article and the NRMP data seem to differ significantly on the importance of the MSPE.
 
From your writing style and grammar, I suspect you enjoy texting. Have someone look over your personal statements and other application materials to specifically ensure that you don't let any of it slip through. A nice, polished statement may not help much, but and unpolished one will definitely hurt.

If English isn't your native language, work on a good, understandable American accent as seen on national news programs. It'll help in the interviews.

Finally, make sure there is nothing written about interpersonal problems in your written evaluations. Those are red flags for program directors. Aside from family medicine, anesthesiologists seem to be the most friendly group of doctors with which to work. They place a great deal of importance on how well you get along with others.

LoL

I am not an FMG and my english is my first language and i have lived in the US my entire life. However, when Im writing on a forum i dont worry about grammar and spelling.

any who, i c that this thread has diverted towards stats and stuff of the sort geared towards FMGs. I would like to put it on track to AMG since that is my situation and the question at hand.

I have a question regarding out of town electives according to 2008 NRMP pdf for anesthesia. It shows that rotating out of town at the program you want to go to only has 32% weight on avg. What is up with that? Am i missing something? I was planning to do both a rotation at my home skool and an out of town elective at my number one choice.

What do you guys think?

btw thanks for all the responses they have been tremendously helpful.
 
I have a question regarding out of town electives according to 2008 NRMP pdf for anesthesia. It shows that rotating out of town at the program you want to go to only has 32% weight on avg. What is up with that? Am i missing something? I was planning to do both a rotation at my home skool and an out of town elective at my number one choice.

What do you guys think?

People have differing opinions, some saying if you make a bad impression you'll have ruined your chances (true), and others saying rocking the rotation can help your case if you are an otherwise average applicant.

If you're going to do the rotation regardless of what you read here, then make sure you work with the people who will make the decisions on your application. If the PD has all the power, then you need to really make a great impression with the PD. If it's a committee, you need to work with the people on that committee and rock their socks off. After the rotation follow up with the PD, tell them how great a rotation you had and how much you enjoy the program, etc.

Anesthesiology is one of those fields where as a student you're often completely useless during your rotation, so it'll be tough to show your knowledge. But when the opportunity comes you gotta be there with the goods.
 
You're fine. Anesthesiology is one of the least competitive matches no matter what anyone says here on this forum. I mean no disrespect to anyone here by saying this (after all, I'm considering gas as a career, as well), but the numbers speak for themselves.

People here and elsewhere blow anesthesiology's competitiveness out of proportion.

Finally, make sure there is nothing written about interpersonal problems in your written evaluations. Those are red flags for program directors. Aside from family medicine, anesthesiologists seem to be the most friendly group of doctors with which to work. They place a great deal of importance on how well you get along with others.

I'm not going to get into a pointless argument, but I could make a reasonable counter-argument using the same data. It's reasonable to say anesthesiology is on par with EM, rads, and OB regards to number of positions available and number of US seniors who fail to match. It's also above most specialties with regards to ranks per applicant. And based on what I heard this year from PDs and program coordinators while on the interview circuit, anesthesiology has gotten more competitive each year over the past several years.

For a specific applicant who desires a specific region with above avg Step 1, considering attempting a layup for Step 2, average grades, and unknown recommendations, I don't think it'll be easy.

The PDs who'll judge this person's Step scores understand if you do well on one board exam there's no reason not to do well on another unless you just didn't put in the work, which would be a red flag.

Here's the take from a coordinator and I know my PD pretty well, so I can say with pretty absolute certainty that this is their take as well.

No matter what anyone says, Anesthesia IS competitive. Last year we had nearly 700 applications for 7 positions (a 64% increase since I started five years ago). We can only interview about 100 people, so we comb over applications with a microscope. An unexplained or "glossed over" break in med school, a less than complimentary remark on a Dean's letter, an indication that "MS4 Jones" doesn't play nice in the sandbox, a dramatic drop from Step 1 to Step 2 (20 points or more), ANY failure on any level of the Step (or COMLEX) exams--all of these are factors (read: RED FLAGS) that could quickly cause your application to land in the "not selected" pile. Last year we filled long before the half-way point on our match list of about 90 people. (Board certification rate is part of any program's review criteria for ACGME accreditation so failure of any level of Step or COMLEX exams will cause a program director to be concerned about your test-taking ability.)

It's critical that you make the right impression during the interview too, if you're fortunate enough to be invited (not just to my school but anywhere). If you spend the entire day talking to your buddy from your school who chose the same interview day as you instead of making an effort to get to know the faculty and residents, you've blown it.

And this I say for myself. I can't say what happens at other schools, but I can tell you that at my program, I have a voice in the selection process too. I may not be able to judge you clinically, but I can certainly say whether you're "nice" or not. I can often get a pretty quick read (through the scheduling process, etc.) on who will likely be "high maintenance". Of course my PD and chair have the final say so, but my input is weighed equally.
 
Here's the take from a coordinator and I know my PD pretty well, so I can say with pretty absolute certainty that this is their take as well.

No matter what anyone says, Anesthesia IS competitive. Last year we had nearly 700 applications for 7 positions (a 64% increase since I started five years ago). We can only interview about 100 people, so we comb over applications with a microscope. An unexplained or "glossed over" break in med school, a less than complimentary remark on a Dean's letter, an indication that "MS4 Jones" doesn't play nice in the sandbox, a dramatic drop from Step 1 to Step 2 (20 points or more), ANY failure on any level of the Step (or COMLEX) exams--all of these are factors (read: RED FLAGS) that could quickly cause your application to land in the "not selected" pile. Last year we filled long before the half-way point on our match list of about 90 people. (Board certification rate is part of any program's review criteria for ACGME accreditation so failure of any level of Step or COMLEX exams will cause a program director to be concerned about your test-taking ability.)

It's critical that you make the right impression during the interview too, if you're fortunate enough to be invited (not just to my school but anywhere). If you spend the entire day talking to your buddy from your school who chose the same interview day as you instead of making an effort to get to know the faculty and residents, you've blown it.

And this I say for myself. I can't say what happens at other schools, but I can tell you that at my program, I have a voice in the selection process too. I may not be able to judge you clinically, but I can certainly say whether you're "nice" or not. I can often get a pretty quick read (through the scheduling process, etc.) on who will likely be "high maintenance". Of course my PD and chair have the final say so, but my input is weighed equally.

Your input is certainly appreciated, and I don't doubt one word of what you're reporting here, but I also don't want your post to contribute to more unnecessary mass hysteria. Just a few points...

1) There might be 700 applicants for 7 positions (it sounds like you have an exceptionally popular program), but the quality of those 700 applicants matters a ton. Check the average board scores and AOA status of successful anesthesiology applicants and you'll see that they're on the lower end of the spectrum.

2) Not every program is going to have 700 applicants for 7 positions. There are a ton of positions in anesthesiology to go around (unlike the truly competitive fields like derm, plastics, oto), making it easy to match. It may very well still be hard to match in any given specific program, however, so it's to everyone's benefit to apply broadly.

3) The 20 point drop you're talking about from Step I to Step II would be a big deal if you were talking about a red flag being raised after a change from 260 -> 240, but that's probably not the case here. Your program would be crazy to eliminate such candidates provided they have no other glaring deficiencies.

4) Re: having someone fail one of the step exams and having this be a key factor in eliminating someone's candidacy - this is the case at any respectable program in almost any specialty.

5) Your interview criteria can be applied to any specialty and doesn't single anesthesiology out. Residency directors in every specialty are going to want hardworking, socially normal people who are easy to get along with.

If the point of your post is to emphasize that you can't be a socially awkward doofus with red flags and expect to match in anesthesiology, then I agree with you're assessment entirely. Again, your point of view as an insider is appreciated, but I think it deserves to be interpreted in the right context.
 
Also wanted to add that I am considering a career in anesthesiology. Hence, I really don't mean to insult the specialty in any way, shape, or form. 😀
 
not to totally hijack this thread but can a carib img with a good cv still try and get into some "upper tier" programs...248/254 on Step 1/2, published poster presentations at major journal conferences, good LOR's, etc is what my basic CV is and i feel that i should def warrant at least a look by some of the better programs. I mean i assume john hopkins, Duke, NYU, etc will shoot me down fast but some of the other university programs should at least be taking a look right? I mean im a manchester united fan and all but that shouldnt hurt me too much right 😉
 
Also wanted to add that I am considering a career in anesthesiology. Hence, I really don't mean to insult the specialty in any way, shape, or form. 😀

If the point of your posting is to say that there are very few fields of medicine that a Step 1 of 230 and average grades can't enter, and anesthesiology is not one of those fields, then well done. Most would agree to that though, and that doesn't make anesthesiology an uncompetitive specialty, atleast in my mind. But again, program reputation and location mattered to me.
 
darkman -

I interviewed this past cycle with FMG/Carib students at some great places:
- Univ of Rochester (upstate NY): very, very solid program
- Wake Forest (NC): a tremendous training program
- Univ of Pittsburgh: my absolute favorite program 😉

In regard to your specific question, I did not meet any FMGs at Hopkins or Duke during my interviews there, and NYU interviewed like 400 people on my interview day, so I cannot say if any were FMG. I think you may unfortunately find the FMG thing is an enormously heavy burden as you apply (*my opinion only based on anecdote*)

Apply broadly, and VERY nice scores, by the way.

Lastly, how did Man U let PUYOL (!?!) look like such a tremendous player?

dc
 
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Your input is certainly appreciated, and I don't doubt one word of what you're reporting here, but I also don't want your post to contribute to more unnecessary mass hysteria. Just a few points...

1) There might be 700 applicants for 7 positions (it sounds like you have an exceptionally popular program), but the quality of those 700 applicants matters a ton. Check the average board scores and AOA status of successful anesthesiology applicants and you'll see that they're on the lower end of the spectrum.

2) Not every program is going to have 700 applicants for 7 positions. There are a ton of positions in anesthesiology to go around (unlike the truly competitive fields like derm, plastics, oto), making it easy to match. It may very well still be hard to match in any given specific program, however, so it's to everyone's benefit to apply broadly.

3) The 20 point drop you're talking about from Step I to Step II would be a big deal if you were talking about a red flag being raised after a change from 260 -> 240, but that's probably not the case here. Your program would be crazy to eliminate such candidates provided they have no other glaring deficiencies.

4) Re: having someone fail one of the step exams and having this be a key factor in eliminating someone's candidacy - this is the case at any respectable program in almost any specialty.

5) Your interview criteria can be applied to any specialty and doesn't single anesthesiology out. Residency directors in every specialty are going to want hardworking, socially normal people who are easy to get along with.

If the point of your post is to emphasize that you can't be a socially awkward doofus with red flags and expect to match in anesthesiology, then I agree with you're assessment entirely. Again, your point of view as an insider is appreciated, but I think it deserves to be interpreted in the right context.

I guess if you want to keep thinking this way, feel free. I am a little offended by the implication that I'm contributing to hysteria; I'm just trying to provide the some insight. With any luck it might help students submit stronger applications or more closely consider the consequences of their actions (like not really studying for Step 2). And since I've met about two-thirds of the coordinators in the 131 accreditated programs in the US at national conferences, I know it's pretty consistant for most programs. You do make it sound like Anesthesia in your fallback.

As for your counterpoints: Obviously my program is a small one since we only offer seven positions each year. You won't find us on any list of the top ten (or even twenty) residencies in Anesthesia. However, due to the increase in the number of applications received and the caliber of the applicants we've had to raise our minimum standards when screening applications. At least the top 100 candidates on our "not selected" list last year are people who probably would have easily earned an invite two or three years ago. Had we had that increase in quantity without the accompanying increase in quality, I might agree that the "competive factor" isn't there.

When it comes to board scores of 240 or higher, we actually review those just as closely as a person with a score of 205. As I said, we're a small program so when someone with a score that high applies, that alone makes you wonder. If the application indicates the person could likely go anywhere, what's the draw in our program? Or are we a "just in case I blow every other interview" fallback? We're actually more trusting of slightly lower scores; that being said, when a 230 drops to a 210 you wonder what happened.

At least we agree about the significance of failling an exam. And you're right--our criteria can be applied anywhere (BTW, AOA isn't one of our factors). Again, just trying to point out some of the more obvious elimination factors.
 
I guess if you want to keep thinking this way, feel free. I am a little offended by the implication that I'm contributing to hysteria; I'm just trying to provide the some insight. With any luck it might help students submit stronger applications or more closely consider the consequences of their actions (like not really studying for Step 2). And since I've met about two-thirds of the coordinators in the 131 accreditated programs in the US at national conferences, I know it's pretty consistant for most programs. You do make it sound like Anesthesia in your fallback.

As for your counterpoints: Obviously my program is a small one since we only offer seven positions each year. You won't find us on any list of the top ten (or even twenty) residencies in Anesthesia. However, due to the increase in the number of applications received and the caliber of the applicants we've had to raise our minimum standards when screening applications. At least the top 100 candidates on our "not selected" list last year are people who probably would have easily earned an invite two or three years ago. Had we had that increase in quantity without the accompanying increase in quality, I might agree that the "competive factor" isn't there.

When it comes to board scores of 240 or higher, we actually review those just as closely as a person with a score of 205. As I said, we're a small program so when someone with a score that high applies, that alone makes you wonder. If the application indicates the person could likely go anywhere, what's the draw in our program? Or are we a "just in case I blow every other interview" fallback? We're actually more trusting of slightly lower scores; that being said, when a 230 drops to a 210 you wonder what happened.

At least we agree about the significance of failling an exam. And you're right--our criteria can be applied anywhere (BTW, AOA isn't one of our factors). Again, just trying to point out some of the more obvious elimination factors.

Are basic science grades one of your factors?

thanks for the reply.
 
Are basic science grades one of your factors?

I think your performance on rotations is more important. Then if it comes down to a choice between two closely matched applicants, that's when your letters of rec, basic science grades, etc, will come into play.
 
And this I say for myself. I can't say what happens at other schools, but I can tell you that at my program, I have a voice in the selection process too. I may not be able to judge you clinically, but I can certainly say whether you're "nice" or not. I can often get a pretty quick read (through the scheduling process, etc.) on who will likely be "high maintenance". Of course my PD and chair have the final say so, but my input is weighed equally.

Don't give away all of the secrets. Next you will be teaching them the secret handshake. How are we supposed to weed out the AOA, 260 USMLE candidates who nobody can stand to be in the same room with if you are giving away this info? 🙂
I have figured out that most people can fake it for a few hours for the interview. We need to see what they are like when they think no one is watching.
 
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