Myth or Not?

[SGPharmD]

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There has been much talk on these boards about this topic so I wanted to see if anyone knew once and for all if it was true or not. Some people say that pharmacy schools are only accrediated to graduate a certain number of students each year, therefore they weed out and make courses tougher to pass to they don't have to graduate as many students. This has been said about MCPHS and UPS before. It has been said that they both accept more student then they are "allowed" to graduate and then make the course load tougher so many fail out. I did not believe this at all, however I was just on the USP website and was reading about their White Coat Ceremony they had last month which had 230 students. That seemed like a lot to me, so it made me wonder if it this was true or not. Can anyone tell me, is there a "set" number of students a school is "allowed" to graduate and where can you find this information if this is true? Also, if it is true, what do they do if everyone is passing with a C, they are still eligible for graduation. Thanks in advice!

 

[Old Timer]

There is no rule or law limiting how many people can graduate. I do know in Philadelphia, the number of people who flunk out of USP compared to Temple is amazingly high. Many people have to repeat a course and they have to wait a year to do it, of course extra tuition is involved. I would say USP does not really support their students.... I think (no proof I'll admit) USP takes in more students than they think will graduate and if they flunk out of the PharmD program, they shift them into something like marketing. It's all about the money.....

By the way if you are thinking about going to school in Philadelphia, Temple is way better choice......

 

[bananaface]

I don't know. But, if you call ACPE directly they can tell you.

 

[haokiet]

in my opinion the pharmacy curriculum is verii arduous..
the students who have a bachelors of science degree
will more likely survive the program than those students
who onlii completed an associates in pre-pharmacy..
more opinion, of the 230 students at USP, a lot of them
onlii have associates degree.. so you can expect a lot
of them to flunk out..

my opinion is you really need a bachelors degree to
survive pharmacy school..

 

[WVUPharm2007]

You don't need a bachelors to survive pharmacy school.

 

[Rumplestiltazepam]

Not a single one of the stupid filler courses I had to take to get my Bachelors has helped me in Pharmacy School so far and I can not see how it will help me during the next 3 years either.

 

[SGPharmD]

in my opinion the pharmacy curriculum is verii arduous..
the students who have a bachelors of science degree
will more likely survive the program than those students
who onlii completed an associates in pre-pharmacy..
more opinion, of the 230 students at USP, a lot of them
onlii have associates degree.. so you can expect a lot
of them to flunk out..

my opinion is you really need a bachelors degree to
survive pharmacy school..

Actually, I know a lot of Pharmacists. Lots of my family are pharmacists, I have many friends who are pharmacists, and I'm a Tech. so I work with a lot of different Pharmacists. I do not know one of them who went on to get their bachelors of science first, they all did the 2+4 year or 2+3 year route. None of them flunked out...

 

[Quiksilver]

There has been much talk on these boards about this topic so I wanted to see if anyone knew once and for all if it was true or not. Some people say that pharmacy schools are only accrediated to graduate a certain number of students each year, therefore they weed out and make courses tougher to pass to they don't have to graduate as many students. This has been said about MCPHS and UPS before. It has been said that they both accept more student then they are "allowed" to graduate and then make the course load tougher so many fail out. I did not believe this at all, however I was just on the USP website and was reading about their White Coat Ceremony they had last month which had 230 students. That seemed like a lot to me, so it made me wonder if it this was true or not. Can anyone tell me, is there a "set" number of students a school is "allowed" to graduate and where can you find this information if this is true? Also, if it is true, what do they do if everyone is passing with a C, they are still eligible for graduation. Thanks in advice!

its a myth.
Certain schools design their programs like that. the motto at UB is "at some schools they will tell you look to your left and look to your right, one of those wont be there at graduation. here we say look to your left and look to your right, one will be your best friend or future spouse." and thats the truth. They want you to pass here. That is ridiculous to think that they have to flunk a certain number to meet a criteria, they instead have an obligation to provide pharmacists that can treat patients effectively in a variety of settings.

 

[bananaface]

You don't need a bachelors to survive pharmacy school.

Yeah. There are thousands of individuals who can speak to that personally.

 

[whitewasheddesi]

Hi, i go to USP. i did an article in he school newpaper about it like a year ago. USP does not try to fail their students out, and they are actually very helpful. They are toughening up their requirements for progressing to P1 because they have been seeing several kids that have been managing to drag along until their fifth year and then completely failing out of pharmacy school because of the pressure (at usp, pharmacotherapy 1, 2, 3 and 4 are done in fifth year, along with pharmacokinetics, seminar, etc.) these failed kids end up spending another year taking analytical chemistry and other stuff to get their bachelors in pharm/tox, essentially spending years to get a bachelors degree and most often also spiral into severe depression. They wanted this to happen less, so they thought it would be better that kids know that pharmacy is not for them after second year, as opposed to fifth year.

 

[Old Timer]

Hi, i go to USP. i did an article in he school newpaper about it like a year ago. USP does not try to fail their students out, and they are actually very helpful. They are toughening up their requirements for progressing to P1 because they have been seeing several kids that have been managing to drag along until their fifth year and then completely failing out of pharmacy school because of the pressure (at usp, pharmacotherapy 1, 2, 3 and 4 are done in fifth year, along with pharmacokinetics, seminar, etc.) these failed kids end up spending another year taking analytical chemistry and other stuff to get their bachelors in pharm/tox, essentially spending years to get a bachelors degree and most often also spiral into severe depression. They wanted this to happen less, so they thought it would be better that kids know that pharmacy is not for them after second year, as opposed to fifth year.

As a preceptor in the Philadelphia area, I can clearly see USP is not a student friendly university. They do nothing to support a student who struggles or has life issues (like pregnancy). Their block system is *****ic to say the least. If you fail 1 block, you cannot progress to the next year, there are no summer classes to make it up. You need to wait until the next year and take the one block you failed.

While your thesis that students have been allowed to progress to P1 who may not have is undoubtedly true, once accepted, the university should be more helpful in getting those students through. Here is an example in year x so many students failed they changed the grading for year x+1. The students in year X were forced to repeat, but they had to use the grading from year X even though it was abandoned and there were students in year X who failed a block again even though they had higher grades than students in year X+1 who passed with the lowered standards..

They are just not friendly to the needs and concerns of students and since have no evidence I cannot determine if it is greed or lack of caring that drives the institution.

 

[SGPharmD]

The students in year X were forced to repeat, but they had to use the grading from year X even though it was abandoned and there were students in year X who failed a block again even though they had higher grades than students in year X+1 who passed with the lowered standards...

You lost me here, why would they fail again if they had higher grades?

 

[Old Timer]

The took the class and were required to get a 75 to pass. The failed one block, not the entire course, one block. They had to wait one year to take the block again, no summer class. The class they were in had to get a 70 to pass. They were held to the standards of when they took the course the first time. They could get a 74 and fail while their classmates could get a 72 and pass....

 

[evilolive]

The took the class and were required to get a 75 to pass. The failed one block, not the entire course, one block. They had to wait one year to take the block again, no summer class. The class they were in had to get a 70 to pass. They were held to the standards of when they took the course the first time. They could get a 74 and fail while their classmates could get a 72 and pass....

I heard the same thing happens at USC - it's a nightmare if you fail a block course and are required to repeat the year over again. It's also ridiculously expensive, about what, 57k a year total expenses included? But I do think USC takes better care of its students. Or at least I hope they do for that kind of money.

 

[whitewasheddesi]

I think that USP has chosen to not offer courses in the summer because of teacher availability and other reasons im unsure of. But from what i know, USP firmly believes (or rather used to believe) in the system where one takes biochem and physiology before pharmacology and all pharmacology and pharmaceutics before the pharmacotherapy. And I think people in faculty do the best they can. There is a tremendous lack of communication between the faculty and student body. But things have been getting better. And by the way, the way blocks are designed, it makes sense that if you fail one block you cannot progress to the next one, just like failing physiology 1 would mean you cannot take physiology 2. If you dont understand how calcium channels, beta adrenergic receptors and myosin and troponin binding work, how would you understand the work ofthe autonomic system in the eye, etc. My guess is that Physiology, pharmacology and pharmacotherapy are not offered in summer because several teachers teach throughout the semester and getting them to teach in the summer is difficult and expensive.
And also, the system will be officially changed in the class after mine, class of 2012 because of the number of students failing and repeating fifth year. From what i understand, they offer pharmacotherapy 1 and 2 with pharmacology 1 and pharmacotherapy 3 and 4 with pharmacology 2. And since this will be bad for us(because if someone in our class fails the pharmacotherapy 1 and 2 block, they would have to be fourth year), our school is offering it to us in the summer

sorry, rambling

 

[TCB]

in my opinion the pharmacy curriculum is verii arduous..
the students who have a bachelors of science degree
will more likely survive the program than those students
who onlii completed an associates in pre-pharmacy..
more opinion, of the 230 students at USP, a lot of them
onlii have associates degree.. so you can expect a lot
of them to flunk out..

my opinion is you really need a bachelors degree to
survive pharmacy school..

I don't agree ; I went to a community college and I am doing just fine.