Nasty Interview Zingers.

[VFTW]

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The heartless disgrace comment is so immature and unprofessional. You have no business destroying your patient's chance to get her heart because you want to save your old geezer of a mother. If you're not comfortable making ethical decisions for the sake of your patients and the maintenance of our career's professionalism, you have no business in medicine.

 

[DarkFark]

I can't believe how many people have said this. I would totally mark you down in an interview for that response. It is ethically not correct to give a heart to your mother over a patient with a better chance of survival/outcome. If you somehow manipulated the surgery schedule or the donor recipient list to give your mother an edge, you'd be fired and lose your license. The proper answer is to defer the decision to your colleagues. End of story. It doesn't mean anything about not loving your mother.

Will you stop it with this pie-in-the-sky idealism crap? We're talking about becoming a physician here, not a freaking jedi knight. I am a human being with attachments. If I made a decision that killed my mom, who incidentaly is in good enough shape to run 3 miles everyday (so don't give me that geezer crap) I wouldn't be able to live with myself, so I wouldn't make that decision.

And the only person who'd get fired is the idiot who put me in a position to make that choice.

The whole impartiality thing has to have a limit somewhere. You found it. And if if you don't think I'm worthy of being a doctor because of it, then too bad, because I guess I've just slipped through the proverbial cracks. Actually, make that 3 cracks and counting. And if you're going to become a doctor and you'd sell out your family, then fine. I don't care.

 

[Risa]

This whole debate is, I think, a little silly.

Of course adcoms aren't going to ask questions that have specific right or wrong answers. They want to see how you reason through it.

Everyone wins! Yay!

PS I save my mommy.

 

[lazygunner]

The heartless disgrace comment is so immature and unprofessional. You have no business destroying your patient's chance to get her heart because you want to save your old geezer of a mother. If you're not comfortable making ethical decisions for the sake of your patients and the maintenance of our career's professionalism, you have no business in medicine.

Wow...that's one of the most terrible things I've ever heard. Do you even have a mother, or any parents for that matter? Obviously, in the end, the decision would be made based on the donor list, but to just outright say 'screw my mom, i have a job to do' is just sick. This is a profession that requires compassion, and if you can simply toss aside a parent who has sacrificed and cared for you to get you where you are today without a second thought, I think that you may be the one lacking some necessary qualities.

 

[Flopotomist]

I can't believe how many people have said this. I would totally mark you down in an interview for that response. It is ethically not correct to give a heart to your mother over a patient with a better chance of survival/outcome. If you somehow manipulated the surgery schedule or the donor recipient list to give your mother an edge, you'd be fired and lose your license. The proper answer is to defer the decision to your colleagues. End of story. It doesn't mean anything about not loving your mother.

Interesting - I would totally mark somebody down for giving the heart to somebody else. If you can't trust a physician to be loyal to his own mother, could you trust him to be loyal in other circumstances? Not to mention the fact that realistically, if somebody said they would give the heard to somebody else, I would doubt their sincerity, so would wonder what else they were lying about.

In reality, isn't it sorta a moot point? What are the odds that both of these people are tissue typed the same? Plus, that pesky organ transplantation list...

 

[robotsonic]

I can't believe how many people have said this. I would totally mark you down in an interview for that response. It is ethically not correct to give a heart to your mother over a patient with a better chance of survival/outcome. If you somehow manipulated the surgery schedule or the donor recipient list to give your mother an edge, you'd be fired and lose your license. The proper answer is to defer the decision to your colleagues. End of story. It doesn't mean anything about not loving your mother.

I completely agree. This situation illustrates why physicians should not treat family members. It needs to be handled by outside observers.

And no, it doesn't mean that you don't love your mother.

 

[tigress]

Seriously, I don't know how the interviewer could make it out to be that the mom is the only option.

While it could be the mom, it is never safe to assume anything about one's family life without all the details.

Hey, that's a really good point. I never really thought about that. There are so many options. It could be his mother, his other father, his step-father, etc.

cool...thanks for opening my mind some more 👍

 

[gujuDoc]

yes it does, it means you are a heartless disgrace as a son/daughter.

I see the point of the poster you quoted. It is not ethical or moral to get mixed up in a case in which you have an emotional investment in.

Ethically and morally it is better to turn the case over to another physician in the hospital.

 

[Sundarban1]

Thanks, but while I agree with Brett that the question is whack, I stand by my earlier statement. My grandfather got cancer when he was 89, and decided to forego treatment because he felt he had lived a meaningful life, and subsequently died a few months later. Thus I have had conversations with my parents regarding what they would do in a similar situation. I know that if my mom were in her 80s-90s and her odds of surviving were low she would not want the transplant, which is why I said I would take age into consideration. Don't automatically assume people have opinions like this because they are heartless.

Thats not the same case. If your grandfather didnt want treatment thats one thing. The question is asking you are the doctor you have your grandfather who needs treatment and joe moe who needs treatment. You would look like a fool if you picked joe over your own blood. You don't have to try to sound PC, just sane to answer this question.

 

[Sundarban1]

The heartless disgrace comment is so immature and unprofessional. You have no business destroying your patient's chance to get her heart because you want to save your old geezer of a mother. If you're not comfortable making ethical decisions for the sake of your patients and the maintenance of our career's professionalism, you have no business in medicine.

OK so your mother dies, our mother lives, or at least has a chance at living. Happy?

 

[dajimmers]

You have a scenario where a father and a son are in a fatal accident...

Couldn't it just be that the father and the son are not related? It just says a father and a son, not a father and his son. Or, the father could be the grandfather of the son, as he would indeed be a father to someone, who would then be the father of the son. Either way, there are plenty of possibilities that would allow the doctor to be the kid's father, or his mother. Or, for that matter, a delusional surgeon.

As for the other case, I don't believe anyone expects a single physician to make decisions for organ donations. Your mom or not, you are going to be somewhat subjective, even in subconsciously (this one's prettier, or younger, or nicer to me), regardless of the "objective" criteria you are supposed to use. I think it would be best to discuss this rather than commit whole-heartedly to your mom or the other patient. Medicine is not an absolute science, and as pre-doctors we have even less expectation of making "right" choices. But we can show what we think about the subject, and show what we know of medical ethics in this situation.

 

[osli]

You know, that other patient is also someone's daughter, mother, wife, sister (if female)... The worth of one life cannot be so trivially compared to the worth of another just because you are present and the other family is not.

For those of you who so quickly answered "my mom, of course, screw the other patient" I wonder if you would say exactly that if the husband and children of the "other patient" were there the very moment you had to make such a decision.

I'm sorry, but being a compassionate human being is not protecting your family at the expense of everything and everyone else. It is being compassionate towards humans. For those who say that even considering the options of removing oneself from the decision, turning toward the donor recipient list established legally for just such situations, or God forbid recognizing that the other patient is a human being too who means just as much to others as your mom means to you is being a pathetic and heartless son, I can't help but be afraid at how many future physicians are so ethically and intelligently shallow.

To not even recognize that the question presents a tough moral dilemma, to make such a hasty decision, makes me wonder what other knee-jerk decisions one is capable of making.

 

[gujuDoc]

You know, that other patient is also someone's daughter, mother, wife, sister (if female)... The worth of one life cannot be so trivially compared to the worth of another just because you are present and the other family is not.

For those of you who so quickly answered "my mom, of course, screw the other patient" I wonder if you would say exactly that if the husband and children of the "other patient" were there the very moment you had to make such a decision.

I'm sorry, but being a compassionate human being is not protecting your family at the expense of everything and everyone else. It is being compassionate towards humans. For those who say that even considering the options of removing oneself from the decision, turning toward the donor recipient list established legally for just such situations, or God forbid recognizing that the other patient is a human being too who means just as much to others as your mom means to you is being a pathetic and heartless son, I can't help but be afraid at how many future physicians are so ethically and intelligently shallow.

To not even recognize that the question presents a tough moral dilemma, to make such a hasty decision, makes me wonder what other knee-jerk decisions one is capable of making.

This is precisely why I did not join in the bandwagon that said mom, but rather that I would get a doctor who is not emotionally invested to take over the case and have them go by who is next on the list.

 

[Hercules022]

Will you stop it with this pie-in-the-sky idealism crap? We're talking about becoming a physician here, not a freaking jedi knight.

Very well said.... sounds to me like a few of the posters in this thread who have said they'd help the patient instead of their mom have been drinking a bit too much of the pre-med Kool-aid.

 

[Sundarban1]

This is precisely why I did not join in the bandwagon that said mom, but rather that I would get a doctor who is not emotionally invested to take over the case and have them go by who is next on the list.

Really, thats a crock of ****. If you are a doctor and your mother is dying you are going to pull every string you have to get your mother what she needs to have a chance at life.

 

[freshh.]

You know, that other patient is also someone's daughter, mother, wife, sister (if female)... The worth of one life cannot be so trivially compared to the worth of another just because you are present and the other family is not.

For those of you who so quickly answered "my mom, of course, screw the other patient" I wonder if you would say exactly that if the husband and children of the "other patient" were there the very moment you had to make such a decision.

I'm sorry, but being a compassionate human being is not protecting your family at the expense of everything and everyone else. It is being compassionate towards humans. For those who say that even considering the options of removing oneself from the decision, turning toward the donor recipient list established legally for just such situations, or God forbid recognizing that the other patient is a human being too who means just as much to others as your mom means to you is being a pathetic and heartless son, I can't help but be afraid at how many future physicians are so ethically and intelligently shallow.

To not even recognize that the question presents a tough moral dilemma, to make such a hasty decision, makes me wonder what other knee-jerk decisions one is capable of making.

I agree. I'd be able to sleep at night knowing that the best possible outcome was achieved and if that meant my mother wasn't getting the heart transplant then so be it.

 

[[super.cool]]

You know, that other patient is also someone's daughter, mother, wife, sister (if female)... The worth of one life cannot be so trivially compared to the worth of another just because you are present and the other family is not.

For those of you who so quickly answered "my mom, of course, screw the other patient" I wonder if you would say exactly that if the husband and children of the "other patient" were there the very moment you had to make such a decision.

I'm sorry, but being a compassionate human being is not protecting your family at the expense of everything and everyone else. It is being compassionate towards humans. For those who say that even considering the options of removing oneself from the decision, turning toward the donor recipient list established legally for just such situations, or God forbid recognizing that the other patient is a human being too who means just as much to others as your mom means to you is being a pathetic and heartless son, I can't help but be afraid at how many future physicians are so ethically and intelligently shallow.

To not even recognize that the question presents a tough moral dilemma, to make such a hasty decision, makes me wonder what other knee-jerk decisions one is capable of making.

Well said.

It's a tough decision, but you can't say to hell with everyone else and save mom. I know that my mother would rather I save the other person, especially if her chance of survival is significantly lower.

How do you look the other patient's family members in the face, after turning your back on him when you had the chance to save his life?

 

[microgin]

I agree. I'd be able to sleep at night knowing that the best possible outcome was achieved and if that meant my mother wasn't getting the heart transplant then so be it.

Good God, there are a lot of heartless souls on here. No one is denying the difficulty or the ethical dilemma surrounding the hypothetical situation, but if you could sleep at night after knowing that you could've saved your mother and didn't, then you just must be a "better" person than I.

 

[freshh.]

Good God, there are a lot of heartless souls on here. No one is denying the difficulty or the ethical dilemma surrounding the hypothetical situation, but if you could sleep at night after knowing that you could've saved your mother and didn't, then you just must be a "better" person than I.

I'm not heartless. From my own experiences with my mother, I know she'd want me to save the other person.

 

[Kitra101]

Did someone say zinc fingers? I love them - with BBQ sauce and occasionally with certain brands of honey mustard. I wish there was a way to make them w/o frying. Anyone know a way to do it w/o deepfrying the zinc? Thanks.

 

[Pkboi24]

Unless either you have an incredibly bad relationship with your mother or the chances of survival were so miniscule as to being hopeless, I would expect any decent son to choose her mother 100% of the time. We are humans first and physicians second.

 

[tanksljp]

What are some really tough interview moral/ethic questions that nearl cost you your interviews?

I think the best answer is,"my mom wouldn't even let me give it to her if she was aware of the situation."

 

[evade]

The heartless disgrace comment is so immature and unprofessional. You have no business destroying your patient's chance to get her heart because you want to save your old geezer of a mother. If you're not comfortable making ethical decisions for the sake of your patients and the maintenance of our career's professionalism, you have no business in medicine.

I don't think any of us on here are old enough to have "geezer" mothers. Step off.

Now, I agree that this question is bogus. Not only does the transplant list clearly dictate who's next for a particular available organ, but doctors are strictly prohibited from being involved in such decisions. Surgeons cannot operate on family members, a transplant team cannot decide if their family member should get an organ over someone else.

That said, your attitude scares me. There is more to medicine than concrete "right" and "wrong" decisions. I have never in my life seen a decision in medicine that was black-and-white as you seem to make this one out to be. Drugs have side effects, treatments have risks, and what seems to be the most obvious and logical choice to one person is something that another will fret over for days. How far would you take this altruistic stance? If serving your patients is your highest calling and your brother or sister was in another hospital dying, would you skip your shift to be with them? What if you were a surgeon and you'd be missing a surgery that you specialize in? Would you put that patient in slightly less skilled hands, or would you miss the final moments of your sibling's life?

If, somehow, I were in an OR with a transplant team and those two patients, my mother and this stranger, with this heart that's perfect for both of them, and my mother wanted very much to live, and I were making this decision in a vaccuum with the seconds ticking by, my mother would absolutely get the heart. Doctors are human too.

 

[majikbob]

tank that is exactly what I was thinking. its not really a dilemma for me at all. My mom would never allow the transplant to take place, if she knew she was takeing the chance for life from a younger person, or maybe even someone older, but id have to ask about that. I think most of our mom's would say the same thing. I really shows how selfish human nature is "I would save my mom", to me it seems you are saving her for yourself, because you are not ready to let her go.

what really surprises me is how much everyone on the thread assumes it is their decision and their decision alone. in reality the best answer is probably the person who can get to the hospital and into the or first. Organs only last so long on ice, and the faster they are implanted the better the chance of survival.


bob

 

[humuhumu]

You know, that other patient is also someone's daughter, mother, wife, sister (if female)... The worth of one life cannot be so trivially compared to the worth of another just because you are present and the other family is not.

For those of you who so quickly answered "my mom, of course, screw the other patient" I wonder if you would say exactly that if the husband and children of the "other patient" were there the very moment you had to make such a decision.

I'm sorry, but being a compassionate human being is not protecting your family at the expense of everything and everyone else. It is being compassionate towards humans. For those who say that even considering the options of removing oneself from the decision, turning toward the donor recipient list established legally for just such situations, or God forbid recognizing that the other patient is a human being too who means just as much to others as your mom means to you is being a pathetic and heartless son, I can't help but be afraid at how many future physicians are so ethically and intelligently shallow.

To not even recognize that the question presents a tough moral dilemma, to make such a hasty decision, makes me wonder what other knee-jerk decisions one is capable of making.

Very well put.

 

[osli]

Really, thats a crock of ****. If you are a doctor and your mother is dying you are going to pull every string you have to get your mother what she needs to have a chance at life.

I'd pull all the strings that didn't cost some other human being his/her life. I can't morally make such a trade. I simply believe it is wrong.

 

[Sundarban1]

I'd pull all the strings that didn't cost some other human being his/her life. I can't morally make such a trade. I simply believe it is wrong.

We'll see when your mother is on her deathbed (hypothetically, of course)

 

[osli]

We'll see when your mother is on her deathbed (hypothetically, of course)

Which is precisely why there is a system in place to prevent me from having that burden and responsibility. Now, I can look at this dilemma objectively and, while emotion certainly comes into play, I can approach the problem within my well established sense of ethics and morals.

But in your hypothetical case, when it really is my mother on the table, none of use can predict with certainty how we will deal with our emotions. And it is for this reason, my inability to know how I will handle such extremes of emotional pressure, that I default to the system created to solve this problem.

While I understand that some of those answering "my mother, of course" might be simply recognizing this same uncertainty and assuming that they would crumble under the pressure, there is no excuse for the insulting and shallow remarks by some others that anyone not immediately choosing their mom is a cold, heartless bastard.

In fact, I would posit that anyone not at least acknowledging that the choice is a dilemma, that the other person on the table is a human being as well, and has just as much value to others as your mom does to you, would be the cold and heartless one.

 

[Orth2006]

I don't have a question to post, but I did have an interviewer flat out tell me "you're not good enough to come to our school." 😱

It was a heart-stopping moment. A million thoughts raced through my mind in a split-second. Was this a stress tactic? Did she want me to break down and cry and show my dedication to becoming a doctor? Did she want to see how I handled a stressful situation? I have no idea, but I was rejected three months later, so I guess I didn't pass the test.

So prepare yourselves for that one, and you'll probably be ready for anything. 😛

Nice answer, Anastasis! 👍

WOW thats seriously COLD!!
if it were me I would most likely ask why he/she felt I wasn't good enough (anger slowy rising). I would ask why they even bothered to invite me to interview if only to tell me that im not good enough (approaching boiling point). Then I would ask them "do you know how much money I've spent on this trip to be here?" (At this point I'd be yelling at the person).
Latent Heat of Vaporization -- every cuss word I can imagine. Oh geez it would be bad. God forbid it ever happens to me AMEN!!

 

[Hercules022]

Everyone who is saying, "This is unrealistic because there are donor lists and protocols and.... blah blah" needs to slow down, take a deep breath, and realize that everyone knows this and you're missing the point of the question. If an interviewer asked this, she/he is well aware, and is well aware that you are aware, that it's not a realistic situation. The question is being asked assuming it were a realistic situation. Anyone with half a brain knows docs don't just decide who gets organ transplants on their own ("Well Mr. Jones, sorry, but I went with the other guy instead.")

To use an analogy, it's like answering the question "If you could only have three things on an island for the rest of your life, what would they be?" by saying: "Well, I wouldn't be there for the rest of my life, because I'd build a raft or flag down a cruise ship or..."

In fact, I'd venture to say that an interviewer might even be unimpressed if you answered this question talking about how it isn't realistic, since it'd indicate that you think something that's clearly common knowledge (docs don't just hand out organs as they see fit) is in fact some creative, original insight.

 

[DarkFark]

Everyone who is saying, "This is unrealistic because there are donor lists and protocols and.... blah blah" needs to slow down, take a deep breath, and realize that everyone knows this and you're missing the point of the question. If an interviewer asked this, she/he is well aware, and is well aware that you are aware, that it's not a realistic situation. The question is being asked assuming it were a realistic situation. Anyone with half a brain knows docs don't just decide who gets organ transplants on their own ("Well Mr. Jones, sorry, but I went with the other guy instead.")

To use an analogy, it's like answering the question "If you could only have three things on an island for the rest of your life, what would they be?" by saying: "Well, I wouldn't be there for the rest of my life, because I'd build a raft or flag down a cruise ship or..."

In fact, I'd venture to say that an interviewer might even be unimpressed if you answered this question talking about how it isn't realistic, since it'd indicate that you think something that's clearly common knowledge (docs don't just hand out organs as they see fit) is in fact some creative, original insight.

That's definitely true- it's decided by committees, not individuals. It's a hypothetical question requiring a hypothetical answer. I prefer it when they use a real life transplant dilemma and just ask you how you would vote.