National Boards Part II failure rate

[PADPM]

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One of my friends forwarded me some information today that I found staggering and disappointing. The statistic stated that the failure rate for podiatric medical students on the National Boards part II was an amazingly high 18%!!!!! And the failure rate for those re-taking the exam was 70%.

Considering the fact that without passing those boards your future is bleak, I think it's incredible that professional school students should have such a high failure rate.

Is the test really that difficult or is this indicative that maybe, just maybe the schools should tighten up their admission requirements. This would serve to improve the profession and prevent those who can not and will not pass this exam from wasting money on an education that they will never be able to utilize. If you can't pass the exam, you won't be offered a residency, etc., etc.

Students are worried and complaining about the residency shortage, etc., but the first priority should be the ability to simply pass the boards that are required to practice. If you can't accomplish that, you can't point fingers at anyone else for your future failure in obtaining a residency.

 

[Podophile]

This is actually perfect for the schools. They still get 4 years worth of tuition and fees, and they aren't really contributing to the residency shortage problem because those students who fail aren't eligible for training. Everybody wins! .....oh except the failing student who now is smothered with 200k of debt and no efficient means of paying it off. But at least the deans get a much needed new foreign luxury sedan out of the deal.

 

[fivescrew]

That's true but they also do their part for the students that are able to pass by keeping the rates as low as possible. Think how expensive it would be if they didn't fill each seat. It's sort of like how airlines do with tickets.

 

[javajava]

One of my friends forwarded me some information today that I found staggering and disappointing. The statistic stated that the failure rate for podiatric medical students on the National Boards part II was an amazingly high 18%!!!!! And the failure rate for those re-taking the exam was 70%.

Considering the fact that without passing those boards your future is bleak, I think it's incredible that professional school students should have such a high failure rate.

Is the test really that difficult or is this indicative that maybe, just maybe the schools should tighten up their admission requirements. This would serve to improve the profession and prevent those who can not and will not pass this exam from wasting money on an education that they will never be able to utilize. If you can't pass the exam, you won't be offered a residency, etc., etc.

Students are worried and complaining about the residency shortage, etc., but the first priority should be the ability to simply pass the boards that are required to practice. If you can't accomplish that, you can't point fingers at anyone else for your future failure in obtaining a residency.

Wow

thats like ONE OUT OF FIVE

thats so bad

 

[robopod97]

Wow

thats like ONE OUT OF FIVE

thats so bad

I beleive a number of the students who did not qualify for residency never passed part I of the boards. I suspect many of the same students did not pass Part II. All schools should require passage of Part I of the boards before permitting students to continue in the program. Special programs taking greater than four years should be eliminated. The exception being students who are in academic good standing experiencing events that delay their education. No doubt the exam has problems as well.

 

[PADPM]

This is actually perfect for the schools. They still get 4 years worth of tuition and fees, and they aren't really contributing to the residency shortage problem because those students who fail aren't eligible for training. Everybody wins! .....oh except the failing student who now is smothered with 200k of debt and no efficient means of paying it off. But at least the deans get a much needed new foreign luxury sedan out of the deal.

This is a perfect way to deflect some of the problem. Yes, I believe that the schools definitely need to tighten up their admission requirements, but I don't believe that this is a pre-conceived conspiracy to steal your money.

On the other hand, isn't it the responsibility of the STUDENT to know whether he/she is over his/her head regardless of whether he/she has been accepted??? If the curriculum is too difficult and he/she feels that the exam is not "passable", stop blaming the school....smell the toast burning and find another profession PRIOR to completing your 4 years and THEN blaming everyone else. Maybe the student simply isn't smart enough....isn't THAT a possibility?

Yes, the schools are partially to blame for not tightening up their standards, but then a student must know whether he/she is capable of the requirement once admitted. Acceptance isn't a guarantee for success. Not everyone who is drafted for baseball makes it to the big show.

 

[347932]

Yes, the schools are partially to blame for not tightening up their standards, but then a student must know whether he/she is capable of the requirement once admitted. Acceptance isn't a guarantee for success. Not everyone who is drafted for baseball makes it to the big show.

👍👍

 

[RockyIV]

We had a student at Temple who hadn't passed part I but was going through clinic. Some of the onus needs to be on the student, some on the school.

Regardless, an 82% national pass rate is bad. Especially for Part II, I thought it was a much easier exam than part I. Maybe because it didn't feel like such a crapshoot? Then again, with our "practice questions" at Temple, you had no excuse not to pass part I either lol

PADPM,
I didn't know the failure rate was that high and honestly I'm a little skeptical. That would mean that ~70 students (even after the second test date) remained "unqualified" for the match, which I know wasn't the case this last March. But, if I'm answering your question with the info you provided, I would say that 9 times out of ten, someone fails boards because they never should have been allowed to take them in the first place. They either aren't motivated enough for any graduate school education, or should have been let go years before part II. I think the ridiculously high failure rate for the folks re-taking the exam would support that claim.

 

[DrGonz]

????

Secret Questions?!??!😱

 

[FiveOVicryl]

One of my friends forwarded me some information today that I found staggering and disappointing. The statistic stated that the failure rate for podiatric medical students on the National Boards part II was an amazingly high 18%!!!!! And the failure rate for those re-taking the exam was 70%.

Considering the fact that without passing those boards your future is bleak, I think it's incredible that professional school students should have such a high failure rate.

Is the test really that difficult or is this indicative that maybe, just maybe the schools should tighten up their admission requirements. This would serve to improve the profession and prevent those who can not and will not pass this exam from wasting money on an education that they will never be able to utilize. If you can't pass the exam, you won't be offered a residency, etc., etc.

Students are worried and complaining about the residency shortage, etc., but the first priority should be the ability to simply pass the boards that are required to practice. If you can't accomplish that, you can't point fingers at anyone else for your future failure in obtaining a residency.

I'd love to see a breakdown of how many students from each school failed part II. I'll be willing to bet the majority of those who failed attend the same pod school(s).

 

[Sig Savant]

From a statistical point of view, I would agree. I would go so far as to say that schools with larger class sizes had more students fail. Why? Because statistically it is obvious that schools with more students will have more students failing.

Are you catching my sarcasm? Any time you increase the sample size of a study you introduce the possibility of more outliers and other data farther from the mean.

 

[PADPM]

PADPM,
I didn't know the failure rate was that high and honestly I'm a little skeptical.

My colleague forwarded me that information which was printed in his state podiatric medical society newsletter.

 

[BioPod]

My colleague forwarded me that information which was printed in his state podiatric medical society newsletter.

This news is rather depressing. :/

 

[javajava]

This news is rather depressing. :/

Hey atleast competition for top residency spots got a little easier 🙂

 

[jonwill]

I would LOVE to see a breakdown by school but that won't happen.

 

[Footsurg]

We had a student at Temple who hadn't passed part I but was going through clinic. Some of the onus needs to be on the student, some on the school.

Regardless, an 82% national pass rate is bad. Especially for Part II, I thought it was a much easier exam than part I. Maybe because it didn't feel like such a crapshoot? Then again, with our "practice questions" at Temple, you had no excuse not to pass part I either lol

PADPM,
I didn't know the failure rate was that high and honestly I'm a little skeptical. That would mean that ~70 students (even after the second test date) remained "unqualified" for the match, which I know wasn't the case this last March. But, if I'm answering your question with the info you provided, I would say that 9 times out of ten, someone fails boards because they never should have been allowed to take them in the first place. They either aren't motivated enough for any graduate school education, or should have been let go years before part II. I think the ridiculously high failure rate for the folks re-taking the exam would support that claim.

I would not worry too much about it. Very few students in my class did not pass part II. May be 2 or 3. Granted that was 6-6 years ago. If you study hard and pay attention during your rotations part two and part three should be routine. Yes, there are a lot of ambiguous questions but for the most part it is stuff a foot and ankle surgeon shoud know.

The longer I am out the more I realize the gravity of the priviledge it is to perform surgery on someone. We should know what we are doing, regardless of how great or poor our podiatry schools are.

 

[RockyIV]

My colleague forwarded me that information which was printed in his state podiatric medical society newsletter.

I see. It would be nice if you could just log onto a program's website and find whatever data you'd like. Sometimes I feel like I'm learning how to become a spy rather than a podiatrist. But then I remember that I will never work in an academic or administrative setting with any of the colleges, and I sleep a little easier.

Back to the OR...

 

[robopod97]

I see. It would be nice if you could just log onto a program's website and find whatever data you'd like. Sometimes I feel like I'm learning how to become a spy rather than a podiatrist. But then I remember that I will never work in an academic or administrative setting with any of the colleges, and I sleep a little easier.

Back to the OR...

Based on your comment I gather you are a Temple grad. Several of the colleges are very open about their results.

 

[RockyIV]

If by several you mean 2, then yes, several of the 9 colleges are very open about results.

 

[robopod97]

If by several you mean 2, then yes, several of the 9 colleges are very open about results.

I think you are right. Students should push the administration to inform students of board results. This is an outcome students deserve to know. I would be very suspect of any college that does not inform students of the results. Students that attend a university should go to the Provost or senior academic administrator and those free standing should go to the President if the dean withholds this information. Failure to release this information brings into question the integrity of the institution. There are no acceptable excuses.

 

[amaprez]

If by several you mean 2, then yes, several of the 9 colleges are very open about results.

Which two schools?? I am applying and knowing this would certainly be helpful!

 

[robopod97]

Which two schools?? I am applying and knowing this would certainly be helpful!

I would suggest go to college websites and look to see if info is posted. Maybe under FAQs.

 

[air bud]

I would suggest go to college websites and look to see if info is posted. Maybe under FAQs.

love to help out where I can. Some of the info you are looking for is right here

http://www.dmu.edu/pm/program-strengths

so that's 1 school....