Army National Guard and Med School

[tradkeke]

Hello all,

I've be contemplating many paths to serving and trying to find the best fit for me. In the end I think I'm going to decide against HPSP because I don't want to risk the military match as well as skill atrophy there afterwards during my payback.

I've strongly considered joining the Guard during med school but I have a few questions.

1. As far as I know, each state runs their own Guard. So how does this work if you move OOS for residency? If State A paid you during med school and handled tuition can you just transfer to State B? Or is it a federally funded program?

2. Are there any states that provide significantly better incentives? I was looking at some states that offer 100% tuition (CT said they do this, NJ does up to 16 credits for graduate), but didn't know if that applied to med school. I remember seeing a post on the white coat investor years ago where he said you could join the Guard in NJ without MDSSP and just get regular incentives. So you would effectively be getting free tuition while paying back your time and be done with payback before you ever finish residency. This just seems too good to be true. Couldn't you be deployed like any regular guard unit then?

3. If you are/were in the Guard during med school, how did you do it? MDSSP and STRAP? Neither?

Here is the link: Army National Guard Physicians | The White Coat Investor - Investing And Personal Finance for Doctors

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[deleted480308]

Hello all,

I've be contemplating many paths to serving and trying to find the best fit for me. In the end I think I'm going to decide against HPSP because I don't want to risk the military match as well as skill atrophy there afterwards during my payback.

I've strongly considered joining the Guard during med school but I have a few questions.

1. As far as I know, each state runs their own Guard. So how does this work if you move OOS for residency? If State A paid you during med school and handled tuition can you just transfer to State B? Or is it a federally funded program?

2. Are there any states that provide significantly better incentives? I was looking at some states that offer 100% tuition (CT said they do this, NJ does up to 16 credits for graduate), but didn't know if that applied to med school. I remember seeing a post on the white coat investor years ago where he said you could join the Guard in NJ without MDSSP and just get regular incentives. So you would effectively be getting free tuition while paying back your time and be done with payback before you ever finish residency. This just seems too good to be true. Couldn't you be deployed like any regular guard unit then?

3. If you are/were in the Guard during med school, how did you do it? MDSSP and STRAP? Neither?

Here is the link: Army National Guard Physicians | The White Coat Investor - Investing And Personal Finance for Doctors

Med student officers are non deployable by policy as you aren’t licensed and are useless. Yes you can join without taking the mdssp. If you match out of state you do an state transfer. Pay attention to your states adherence to rules about dcc/bolc because it might interfere with your summers and they may make you drill to get points and pay

 

[NG_SpecialBranchRecruiter]

1. You can transfer between States. Funding for the program is at the National level.

2. Because incentives are managed by the National Guard Bureau, all states offer the same (MDSSP, STRAP, HPLRP, and Accessions Bonus). The 100% tuition you refer is the state education assistance program (SEAP) or some variation of an education assistance program, and is used for undergraduate degrees (in my state). Some states my pay for graduate schools, so the best advice is to contact the NG education incentives office for the state where you are looking to attend school.

If you go to medical school and join the NG under anything except MDSSP/STRAP, you can be deployed. Coming in under the MDSSP/STRAP program gives you an area of concentration of 00E67, which is a non-deployable coding. You keep this AOC until you graduate from residency, at which point you can deploy. It might be as soon as you finish residency, which is the case for one of our docs.

3. It depends on your financial needs and how long you want to commit to the Guard. If you've read the link at the bottom of your post he spells out all the timelines. So, you just have to balance how much time you want to be the Guard and how much incentive you want to take while in school. See if you can make contact with a doctor in your state that is currently serving and get their experience.

 

[deleted480308]

1. You can transfer between States. Funding for the program is at the National level.

2. Because incentives are managed by the National Guard Bureau, all states offer the same (MDSSP, STRAP, HPLRP, and Accessions Bonus). The 100% tuition you refer is the state education assistance program (SEAP) or some variation of an education assistance program, and is used for undergraduate degrees (in my state). Some states my pay for graduate schools, so the best advice is to contact the NG education incentives office for the state where you are looking to attend school.

If you go to medical school and join the NG under anything except MDSSP/STRAP, you can be deployed. Coming in under the MDSSP/STRAP program gives you an area of concentration of 00E67, which is a non-deployable coding. You keep this AOC until you graduate from residency, at which point you can deploy. It might be as soon as you finish residency, which is the case for one of our docs.

3. It depends on your financial needs and how long you want to commit to the Guard. If you've read the link at the bottom of your post he spells out all the timelines. So, you just have to balance how much time you want to be the Guard and how much incentive you want to take while in school. See if you can make contact with a doctor in your state that is currently serving and get their experience.

It’s possible I’m behind, can you share the paperwork saying 00e67 requires taking mdssp?

 

[tradkeke]

@sb247 @NG_SpecialBranchRecruiter

Thank you guys for the response. I was reading around and found this:

I'm currently doing STRAP/HPLR and feel like it's the best deal.
I get a stipend which works out to about 2k monthly after taxes and do paperwork as my drill equivalent. That's about 375 after taxes every month. Each good year during residency qualifies for 40k in HPLR (which they also tax prior to applying it to loans). You effectively increase your pretax income by 76k (30k stipend, 6k from 1380 pay, and 40k HPLR). You still owe the year per six months of STRAP, but reserves is a hell of an easier sell to the wife than active duty is.
I'm in Rads, so pay discrepancy was a pretty big determining factor.
Feel free to PM me if you want some more details.

in another thread.

Is that possible? STRAP/HPLRP together and only get a 2:1 payback? How can he take 2 benefits at the same time and only get the payback for regular STRAP. I know I want to serve, I'm just trying to figure out the best way family and financial wise. And STRAP/HPLRP sounds like a deal, especially since my wife and I want kids before we're old and gray (i.e. before/during residency.).

 

[deleted480308]

@sb247 @NG_SpecialBranchRecruiter

Thank you guys for the response. I was reading around and found this:
in another thread.

Is that possible? STRAP/HPLRP together and only get a 2:1 payback? How can he take 2 benefits at the same time and only get the payback for regular STRAP. I know I want to serve, I'm just trying to figure out the best way family and financial wise. And STRAP/HPLRP sounds like a deal, especially since my wife and I want kids before we're old and gray (i.e. before/during residency.).

you do not get hplrp for each year in residency

 

[NG_SpecialBranchRecruiter]

It’s possible I’m behind, can you share the paperwork saying 00e67 requires taking mdssp?

After attending the most recent AMEDD incentives training, the unwritten policy at NGB is to board medical and dental students under MDSSP. Of course, this doesn't mean they have to take the financial incentives, it's just there if they want it. NGB was running into problems where medical/dental students would be boarded under 00E62 without MDSSP, but would later decide they want the incentive. Recruiters were having to rebuild packets and go through a brand new boarding process just to get MDSSP, which caused a large gap between when they requested incentives and when they received them. By boarding everyone under MDSSP, if they want incentives, they just turn in the NGB 810 to receive their stipend.

Correction: in my previous post I said 00E67, it should be 00E62.

 

[NG_SpecialBranchRecruiter]

@sb247 @NG_SpecialBranchRecruiter

Thank you guys for the response. I was reading around and found this:
in another thread.

Is that possible? STRAP/HPLRP together and only get a 2:1 payback? How can he take 2 benefits at the same time and only get the payback for regular STRAP. I know I want to serve, I'm just trying to figure out the best way family and financial wise. And STRAP/HPLRP sounds like a deal, especially since my wife and I want kids before we're old and gray (i.e. before/during residency.).

I'll see if I can clear it up, his wording is a little confusing.

STRAP and HPLRP are the only incentives you can currently take together. As you know STRAP will pay you a stipend until you graduate from residency. You can start using HPLRP after your second year of residency. The way HPLRP works is you complete 1 year and then receive a payment. Your obligation is satisfied at the end of the year which you want to take the HPLRP payment. For example, if you start residency on 1 July 2016, you will be eligible to start HPLRP on 1 July 2018. You won't receive your first payment until 1 July 2019. This is different from a bonus where you receive your payment on the front end and then serve your obligation.

As far as payback, you can only pay back on one incentive at a time. If you decide to use HPLRP, it pushes back your STRAP obligation repayment until you are no longer using your HPLRP. Continuing with the above example, you decide to use three years of HPLRP, so you receive your loan payment July 2019, July 2020, and July 2021. You terminate your loan repayment contract on 1 July 2021. At this point, you will begin your STRAP payback.

I hope this helps.

 

[tradkeke]

I'll see if I can clear it up, his wording is a little confusing.

STRAP and HPLRP are the only incentives you can currently take together. As you know STRAP will pay you a stipend until you graduate from residency. You can start using HPLRP after your second year of residency. The way HPLRP works is you complete 1 year and then receive a payment. Your obligation is satisfied at the end of the year which you want to take the HPLRP payment. For example, if you start residency on 1 July 2016, you will be eligible to start HPLRP on 1 July 2018. You won't receive your first payment until 1 July 2019. This is different from a bonus where you receive your payment on the front end and then serve your obligation.

As far as payback, you can only pay back on one incentive at a time. If you decide to use HPLRP, it pushes back your STRAP obligation repayment until you are no longer using your HPLRP. Continuing with the above example, you decide to use three years of HPLRP, so you receive your loan payment July 2019, July 2020, and July 2021. You terminate your loan repayment contract on 1 July 2021. At this point, you will begin your STRAP payback.

I hope this helps.

But say you're in a 5 year residency with STRAP and you take HPLRP for the last 3 years in residency and terminate it right before you start as an attending.

You receive loan payment July 2019-2021 and since you are taking HPLRP for those years you don't payback STRAP, but you can't payback STRAP is residency anyways. So isn't the HPLRP "free" in a sense?

 

[NG_SpecialBranchRecruiter]

But say you're in a 5 year residency with STRAP and you take HPLRP for the last 3 years in residency and terminate it right before you start as an attending.

You receive loan payment July 2019-2021 and since you are taking HPLRP for those years you don't payback STRAP, but you can't payback STRAP is residency anyways. So isn't the HPLRP "free" in a sense?

Well, yeah when you put it like that, I suppose it is. You aren’t eligible to pay back MDSSP or STRAP yet. Taking the loan repayment doesn’t add on to your commitment or delay your obligation start date. Never thought about it like that!

 

[deleted707454]

I have a friend in the guard who is getting deployed so his medical school education is getting interrupted - I don't know what is going to get worked out. I never thought they'd do that, but according to him, his command gives zero cares about his school goals, and gives no accommodation. He pays for himself to fly out 1 state adjacent every time for drill. Sounds awful to me.

Med student officers are non deployable by policy as you aren’t licensed and are useless. Yes you can join without taking the mdssp. If you match out of state you do an state transfer. Pay attention to your states adherence to rules about dcc/bolc because it might interfere with your summers and they may make you drill to get points and pay

 

[deleted480308]

I have a friend in the guard who is getting deployed so his medical school education is getting interrupted - I don't know what is going to get worked out. I never thought they'd do that, but according to him, his command gives zero cares about his school goals, and gives no accommodation. He pays for himself to fly out 1 state adjacent every time for drill. Sounds awful to me.

Ask your friend, $20 says their military job isn’t medical student

If you are in as something else you can and should deploy with your unit

 

[notdeadyet]

Ask your friend, $20 says their military job isn’t medical student

If you are in as something else you can and should deploy with your unit

I agree with this. Med students don’t get deployed if they are slotted as medical students. They do not have an AOC. They are not a deplorable asset.

Your buddy was not in a medical student slot. Especially if he’s going out of state to drill. That is only done if you have an AOC and are slotted in an actual role.