Navy AEGD/GPR competitiveness

[navyny]

Hi guys,

I am a 2nd year dental student and a 4 year HPSPer.

I know a few have asked this question but it seems that no one has answered yet. (At least not to my knowledge. I searched for a bit but couldn't find anything. I apologize in advance if that's not the case.)

How competitive is Navy AEGD/GPR in terms of number of applicants per spot, number of accepted spots, and GPA, class rank, and board scores??

I know that everyone is required to at least apply but I think I am particularly concerned with the applicants per spot (the ones that are wanting to accept) and the number of spots available.

I read on NNMC that there are 24 spots nationally for GPR and also NNMC I estimated about 30-40 AEGD spots?

This is probably going to sound like a very dumb question for 2nd year dental student HPSPer...but how many Navy HPSPers are there currently for the class of 2013 nationally?

I thought I read somewhere that there were ~70 or so but now that seems a little low.

Any help would be appreciated.

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[tingting]

From what I have seen they are not particularly competitive, and I already did ODS, so I've talked quite a few folks. This goes for the AEGD and the GPR. I think if you want one you will get it unless you have some sort of red flag.

Hi guys,

I am a 2nd year dental student and a 4 year HPSPer.

I know a few have asked this question but it seems that no one has answered yet. (At least not to my knowledge. I searched for a bit but couldn't find anything. I apologize in advance if that's not the case.)

How competitive is Navy AEGD/GPR in terms of number of applicants per spot, number of accepted spots, and GPA, class rank, and board scores??

I know that everyone is required to at least apply but I think I am particularly concerned with the applicants per spot (the ones that are wanting to accept) and the number of spots available.

I read on NNMC that there are 24 spots nationally for GPR and also NNMC I estimated about 30-40 AEGD spots?

This is probably going to sound like a very dumb question for 2nd year dental student HPSPer...but how many Navy HPSPers are there currently for the class of 2013 nationally?

I thought I read somewhere that there were ~70 or so but now that seems a little low.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Smills91]

Hi guys,

I am a 2nd year dental student and a 4 year HPSPer.

I know a few have asked this question but it seems that no one has answered yet. (At least not to my knowledge. I searched for a bit but couldn't find anything. I apologize in advance if that's not the case.)

How competitive is Navy AEGD/GPR in terms of number of applicants per spot, number of accepted spots, and GPA, class rank, and board scores??

I know that everyone is required to at least apply but I think I am particularly concerned with the applicants per spot (the ones that are wanting to accept) and the number of spots available.

I read on NNMC that there are 24 spots nationally for GPR and also NNMC I estimated about 30-40 AEGD spots?

This is probably going to sound like a very dumb question for 2nd year dental student HPSPer...but how many Navy HPSPers are there currently for the class of 2013 nationally?

I thought I read somewhere that there were ~70 or so but now that seems a little low.

Any help would be appreciated.

I don't know your answer exactly, but ~70 seems to be about right. There are 7 AEGD locations in the Navy 1) Bethesda, 2) Norfolk, 3) Camp Lejeune, 4) San Diego, 5) Camp Pendleton, 6) Great Lakers and 7) Okinawa. I would imagine 8-12 for each location. So 70 seems like a good estimate to me.

Anyone have concrete facts to back this up with?

 

[del Sol DOHC]

I don't know your answer exactly, but ~70 seems to be about right. There are 7 AEGD locations in the Navy 1) Bethesda, 2) Norfolk, 3) Camp Lejeune, 4) San Diego, 5) Camp Pendleton, 6) Great Lakers and 7) Okinawa. I would imagine 8-12 for each location. So 70 seems like a good estimate to me.

Anyone have concrete facts to back this up with?

The AEGD in Okinawa closed a few years back due to lack of interest, and I've heard that there hasn't been any talk of reopening it. It's a real shame since that would have been at the top of my list.

 

[Kahr]

The AEGD in Okinawa closed a few years back due to lack of interest, and I've heard that there hasn't been any talk of reopening it. It's a real shame since that would have been at the top of my list.

Wow, no kidding? That would've been easily top of my list as well, it was actually part of the reason I was considering the Navy (smaller than other reasons, but still a part of it). Seemed like a pretty active hospital (Lester) too, since they took so many cases from the Air Force and Marines there.

 

[del Sol DOHC]

Wow, no kidding? That would've been easily top of my list as well, it was actually part of the reason I was considering the Navy (smaller than other reasons, but still a part of it). Seemed like a pretty active hospital (Lester) too, since they took so many cases from the Air Force and Marines there.

You can still be stationed there as a Navy dentist, but there is no longer an AEGD program. I'll try to get there eventually.

 

[tingting]

The bethesda AEGD only takes a couple, and I've heard it will be shutting down soon if not next year.

 

[navyny]

The bethesda AEGD only takes a couple, and I've heard it will be shutting down soon if not next year.

That is a shame, I was actually hoping to be there. Do you know why they're shutting it down?

Are they still going to have the GPR there?

 

[del Sol DOHC]

The bethesda AEGD only takes a couple, and I've heard it will be shutting down soon if not next year.

That is surprising that they would shut down the AEGD program at the Naval Postgraduate Dental School...

 

[tingting]

That is a shame, I was actually hoping to be there. Do you know why they're shutting it down?

Are they still going to have the GPR there?

The GPR will stay as far as I know. It is associated with the hospital, not the dental clinic.

I'm not quite sure why they are closing it. I think it has to do with how the 1 year AEGDs are generally at large Navy/Marine bases where there are many recruits coming in. The focus at Bethesda is specialties and 2 year AEGD.

 

[goosestuff]

The GPR will stay as far as I know. It is associated with the hospital, not the dental clinic.

I'm not quite sure why they are closing it. I think it has to do with how the 1 year AEGDs are generally at large Navy/Marine bases where there are many recruits coming in. The focus at Bethesda is specialties and 2 year AEGD.

It has to do with the fact that there is a 2-yr AEGD at that location. As I understand it, the 1-yr AEGD is offered at Bethesda every other year.

 

[Smills91]

It has to do with the fact that there is a 2-yr AEGD at that location. As I understand it, the 1-yr AEGD is offered at Bethesda every other year.

So how competitive is the 2 year AEGD right out of School? Is doing a 1 year AEGD beneficial to getting into a 2 year AEGD?

Also will there be any new locations opening up to replace some of the closings?

 

[Tooth]

If you're considering a Navy AEGD, please read the following.

If someone told you that doing an AEGD will keep you off the amalgam line, IT'S A CRUEL LIE!

While doing my AEGD I was trained on molar endo, endo retreats, third molar extractions, complex fixed prosthodontics, implant placement and restoration, etc. But for what? Now that I'm done with the AEGD my clinic director told me I'm not allowed to do anything other than exams or operative except for "maybe the last day of the month if dental readiness is over 94.5%" What an f-ing waste of my training!!!!

The bottom line is that when you're done with your AEGD, you'll still be just a Lieutenant and not a specialist. This means that you're still at the bottom of the dental corps food chain. CAPT's, CDR's, and even LCDR's are not going to be doing operative unless they want to, which isn't very often. So, at this point, I expect the next four years of my life will be no better than if I hadn't done an AEGD at all.

That being said, if you plan on specializing, it's still something you can put on your CV. They can't take that away from you.

But, if you're planning on getting out and staying in general dentistry, don't do a Navy AEGD. It's not worth a year of your time to train you and then not allow you to do anything you were trained and credentialed to do.

 

[Tiankum]

If you're considering a Navy AEGD, please read the following.

If someone told you that doing an AEGD will keep you off the amalgam line, IT'S A CRUEL LIE!

While doing my AEGD I was trained on molar endo, endo retreats, third molar extractions, complex fixed prosthodontics, implant placement and restoration, etc. But for what? Now that I'm done with the AEGD my clinic director told me I'm not allowed to do anything other than exams or operative except for "maybe the last day of the month if dental readiness is over 94.5%" What an f-ing waste of my training!!!!

The bottom line is that when you're done with your AEGD, you'll still be just a Lieutenant and not a specialist. This means that you're still at the bottom of the dental corps food chain. CAPT's, CDR's, and even LCDR's are not going to be doing operative unless they want to, which isn't very often. So, at this point, I expect the next four years of my life will be no better than if I hadn't done an AEGD at all.

That being said, if you plan on specializing, it's still something you can put on your CV. They can't take that away from you.

But, if you're planning on getting out and staying in general dentistry, don't do a Navy AEGD. It's not worth a year of your time to train you and then not allow you to do anything you were trained and credentialed to do.

Not really understanding here.. did you just get out of the AEGD and that's why they aren't letting you do anything more than operative? You're kind of scaring me..I just signed with the navy and was hoping for a little more than what you're telling us.

 

[Smills91]

If you're considering a Navy AEGD, please read the following.

If someone told you that doing an AEGD will keep you off the amalgam line, IT'S A CRUEL LIE!

While doing my AEGD I was trained on molar endo, endo retreats, third molar extractions, complex fixed prosthodontics, implant placement and restoration, etc. But for what? Now that I'm done with the AEGD my clinic director told me I'm not allowed to do anything other than exams or operative except for "maybe the last day of the month if dental readiness is over 94.5%" What an f-ing waste of my training!!!!

The bottom line is that when you're done with your AEGD, you'll still be just a Lieutenant and not a specialist. This means that you're still at the bottom of the dental corps food chain. CAPT's, CDR's, and even LCDR's are not going to be doing operative unless they want to, which isn't very often. So, at this point, I expect the next four years of my life will be no better than if I hadn't done an AEGD at all.

That being said, if you plan on specializing, it's still something you can put on your CV. They can't take that away from you.

But, if you're planning on getting out and staying in general dentistry, don't do a Navy AEGD. It's not worth a year of your time to train you and then not allow you to do anything you were trained and credentialed to do.
__________________

Not really understanding here.. did you just get out of the AEGD and that's why they aren't letting you do anything more than operative? You're kind of scaring me..I just signed with the navy and was hoping for a little more than what you're telling us.

What about after your commitment is up? You don't think that training will be beneficial to you when you're eventually in private practice? Please elaborate a little more tooth. What AEGD did you go to? Where are you currently stationed?

 

[Kahr]

If you're considering a Navy AEGD, please read the following.

If someone told you that doing an AEGD will keep you off the amalgam line, IT'S A CRUEL LIE!

While doing my AEGD I was trained on molar endo, endo retreats, third molar extractions, complex fixed prosthodontics, implant placement and restoration, etc. But for what? Now that I'm done with the AEGD my clinic director told me I'm not allowed to do anything other than exams or operative except for "maybe the last day of the month if dental readiness is over 94.5%" What an f-ing waste of my training!!!!

The bottom line is that when you're done with your AEGD, you'll still be just a Lieutenant and not a specialist. This means that you're still at the bottom of the dental corps food chain. CAPT's, CDR's, and even LCDR's are not going to be doing operative unless they want to, which isn't very often. So, at this point, I expect the next four years of my life will be no better than if I hadn't done an AEGD at all.

That being said, if you plan on specializing, it's still something you can put on your CV. They can't take that away from you.

But, if you're planning on getting out and staying in general dentistry, don't do a Navy AEGD. It's not worth a year of your time to train you and then not allow you to do anything you were trained and credentialed to do.

This is a bit worrisome, not certain about which branch I'll be signing with, but I'd like to hear some of the other AD dentists (all branches) weigh-in...especially considering I always assumed I would do an AEGD if I couldn't specialize out of dental school.

 

[Tooth]

Not really understanding here.. did you just get out of the AEGD and that's why they aren't letting you do anything more than operative? You're kind of scaring me..I just signed with the navy and was hoping for a little more than what you're telling us.

The mission of the Navy Dental Corps is to maintain dental readiness of 95%. For example, when you finish your AEGD and get assigned to a dental clinic, that clinic will serve perhaps 3000 Marines or Sailors. Your mission is to make sure that 95% of them are dentally ready for deployment at any given time.

How does this affect you? If someone has decay 1/3 of the way into dentin on any tooth, they are considered not dentally ready for deployment. Just try to imagine how many people that is of the 3000 people assigned to your clinic.

Now consider this...LCDR's are usually in a residency program and unavailble for operative. CDR's and CAPT's are already specialists. If by chance they are still general dentists, then they will usually be at least a clinic director. Since residents won't be doing the fillings, and specialists won't be doing the fillings, and clinic directors won't be doing the fillings, that leaves only the Lieutenants who aren't specialists to do the fillings and AEGD graduates fall into that pile. It doesn't matter if you were trained on everything else. The expectation is that you do the fillings and refer everything else to the specialists who were trained to do it "better than you". I seriously have to refer out my non-complicated three unit bridges to a prosthodontist. I have to refer out anterior endo, internal bleaching, etc. As far as endo, all I get to do now are pulpectomies when they come in on an emergency. I have to send them to the endodontist for the final fill. I'm not allowed to use gutta percha. Our prosthodontists don't want to do single unit crowns because that is "beneath" them. But my clinic director won't let me do any because if I'm not doing the fillings who will? So we have to send our single unit crowns out in town for them to get done at $1000 each. Talk about BS huh? That's the reality.

 

[Tooth]

What about after your commitment is up? You don't think that training will be beneficial to you when you're eventually in private practice? Please elaborate a little more tooth. What AEGD did you go to? Where are you currently stationed?

I'll give you the best example I can think of. Once you're on active duty, whether you do an AEGD or not, you will probably never do a denture again. We simply don't serve a population that needs dentures.

I'd like you to ask any military dentist who got out after 4 or 5 years how confident they feel about making dentures for their patients. That's going to be you after your AEGD for all aspects of general dentistry when all you do is operative all day, every day. It's a fact, your skills will atrophy. So why do one? Just get out a year earlier if all you want to do is general dentistry. That's one less year for your skills to atrophy. If you want to specialize though, it's another story. I can certainly understand why specialty programs prefer AEGD grads.

For these matters, it doesn't matter which AEGD program you go to or which location you are stationed. The Navy's policies are the same everywhere. Besides, even if I just have a "bottom of the bucket" clinic director, he won't even be here anymore by the time you're ready to come where I'm at. This scenario is unavoidable.

 

[Smills91]

I'll give you the best example I can think of. Once you're on active duty, whether you do an AEGD or not, you will probably never do a denture again. We simply don't serve a population that needs dentures.

I'd like you to ask any military dentist who got out after 4 or 5 years how confident they feel about making dentures for their patients. That's going to be you after your AEGD for all aspects of general dentistry when all you do is operative all day, every day. It's a fact, your skills will atrophy. So why do one? Just get out a year earlier if all you want to do is general dentistry. That's one less year for your skills to atrophy. If you want to specialize though, it's another story. I can certainly understand why specialty programs prefer AEGD grads.

For these matters, it doesn't matter which AEGD program you go to or which location you are stationed. The Navy's policies are the same everywhere. Besides, even if I just have a "bottom of the bucket" clinic director, he won't even be here anymore by the time you're ready to come where I'm at. This scenario is unavoidable.

I appreciate the feedback. If you were to do it all over again(remaining in the Navy that is), what would you do differently?

 

[Tooth]

I appreciate the feedback. If you were to do it all over again(remaining in the Navy that is), what would you do differently?

I'm ok with having done the AEGD because I eventually want to specialize. It will help my CV. Without it, I don't think I'd be the best ortho applicant but with it I'm at least in the ball park. I also got the duty station I wanted with three year orders which is really nice. My advice is primarily for those who "know" they will want to get out and practice general dentistry. If that's you, the AEGD just isn't worth a year. Do your time and get out asap.

 

[Smills91]

I'm ok with having done the AEGD because I eventually want to specialize. It will help my CV. Without it, I don't think I'd be the best ortho applicant but with it I'm at least in the ball park. I also got the duty station I wanted with three year orders which is really nice. My advice is primarily for those who "know" they will want to get out and practice general dentistry. If that's you, the AEGD just isn't worth a year. Do your time and get out asap.

What duty station did you go to and why was it the one that you wanted? I'm split on whether I 'want' to stay in or not. I'm open to a career, but not set on it. It's kinda one of those things where I want to take it each 4 years. Specialties don't really interest me as I like the variety of general and don't like the idea of the buck stopping with me as a specialist. I like the autonomy of picking and choosing what I actually do and have the ability to refer out those things I don't like or don't feel comfortable doing.

 

[Tooth]

What duty station did you go to and why was it the one that you wanted? I'm split on whether I 'want' to stay in or not. I'm open to a career, but not set on it. It's kinda one of those things where I want to take it each 4 years. Specialties don't really interest me as I like the variety of general and don't like the idea of the buck stopping with me as a specialist. I like the autonomy of picking and choosing what I actually do and have the ability to refer out those things I don't like or don't feel comfortable doing.

You may very well enjoy the military and I can't tell you how you're going to feel. Like I said, my advice is for those who "know" they want out before they even get in.

But if you do stay in the military you will have to specialize if you want to thrive. You can survive as a general dentist, but you really want to thrive. Fortunately there is a specialty in the military called Comprehensive Dentistry which is really just a glorified general dentist. If you "know" you want to be a general dentist you should apply to the Comprehensive Dentistry specialty instead of the AEGD. FYI, sometimes the Comp programs is called the two-year AEGD. This way, when you get done with your program the payback is concurrent (paid back at the same time with HPSP) and, because you're a specialist, people are going to leave you alone. You'll pretty much be able to do everything you want. The downside is that, if you decide you want out of the military you're just wasting two years of your life. Unless you're prior service, and "know" you're going to stay in, I wouldn't recommend it. If you "know" you don't want to specialize, I wouldn't do a one-year AEGD. It will be a waist of your time.

 

[Smills91]

You may very well enjoy the military and I can't tell you how you're going to feel. Like I said, my advice is for those who "know" they want out before they even get in.

But if you do stay in the military you will have to specialize if you want to thrive. You can survive as a general dentist, but you really want to thrive. Fortunately there is a specialty in the military called Comprehensive Dentistry which is really just a glorified general dentist. If you "know" you want to be a general dentist you should apply to the Comprehensive Dentistry specialty instead of the AEGD. FYI, sometimes the Comp programs is called the two-year AEGD. This way, when you get done with your program the payback is concurrent (paid back at the same time with HPSP) and, because you're a specialist, people are going to leave you alone. You'll pretty much be able to do everything you want. The downside is that, if you decide you want out of the military you're just wasting two years of your life. Unless you're prior service, and "know" you're going to stay in, I wouldn't recommend it. If you "know" you don't want to specialize, I wouldn't do a one-year AEGD. It will be a waist of your time.

I'm on the HSCP which gives me 4 years in before I even start. Is it possible/likely to get accepted into the Comp 2 year AEGD right out of school?
Or do you have to be a world-beater applicant to obtain that? (I'm not)

My biggest thing is, I don't feel like I'll be at the level of competence that I want to be at when I graduate. Of course, I've barely completed 1 semester of clinic in D-school, so maybe you really do learn a lot your last 3 semesters of D-school. I don't know yet. But my main motivator for the 1 year AEGD, and the 2 year AEGD appeals to me somewhat too, is to become a better dentist period. I learn best in the hands-on realm and d-school, imo, has been less than sufficient in many regards to actually 'learning' dentistry. I feel many of the procedures we do are antiquated and inefficient to actually treating patients. These aren't complaints, I understand d-school is what it is it is, but rather observations. If I love the military I'll stay in, if I hate I'll get out. If there's a great opportunity either way, I'll follow that path. I don't 'know' what I want to do exactly at this point in my dental career and I would love to have the most positive experience in the military as possible and making it a career wouldn't be a bad option for me in many ways.

So essentially this boils down to, if you're in the 'I don't know' camp and could go either way. Would you recommend an AEGD/GPR? Or can you gain that kind of training later on in your career if you desire?

 

[Tooth]

I'm on the HSCP which gives me 4 years in before I even start. Is it possible/likely to get accepted into the Comp 2 year AEGD right out of school?
Or do you have to be a world-beater applicant to obtain that? (I'm not)

My biggest thing is, I don't feel like I'll be at the level of competence that I want to be at when I graduate. Of course, I've barely completed 1 semester of clinic in D-school, so maybe you really do learn a lot your last 3 semesters of D-school. I don't know yet. But my main motivator for the 1 year AEGD, and the 2 year AEGD appeals to me somewhat too, is to become a better dentist period. I learn best in the hands-on realm and d-school, imo, has been less than sufficient in many regards to actually 'learning' dentistry. I feel many of the procedures we do are antiquated and inefficient to actually treating patients. These aren't complaints, I understand d-school is what it is it is, but rather observations. If I love the military I'll stay in, if I hate I'll get out. If there's a great opportunity either way, I'll follow that path. I don't 'know' what I want to do exactly at this point in my dental career and I would love to have the most positive experience in the military as possible and making it a career wouldn't be a bad option for me in many ways.

So essentially this boils down to, if you're in the 'I don't know' camp and could go either way. Would you recommend an AEGD/GPR? Or can you gain that kind of training later on in your career if you desire?

I don't know of anyone who's even applied for the comp program right out of school, at least in the Navy. The Army is a different subject. I've seen many get in right out of school.

I was a "I don't know" person as well. But I did know I wanted to specialize. If you don't know, it's really just going to be a gamble for you then. If you hate the military and want to get out, you just lost about $100K (the difference in what you would have made outside and what you will make in the AEGD). If you stay in, you can get into a comp residency without an AEGD at least eventually. So the gamble for the "I don't know" camp is $100K one side and nothing on the other. If I were you, at this point, I wouldn't do an AEGD. If you want to specialize in a conventional specialty like endo, ortho, OS, then the game changes to yes, do one. You don't need a one-year AEGD to get into the two-year AEGD though.

 

[Smills91]

I don't know of anyone who's even applied for the comp program right out of school, at least in the Navy. The Army is a different subject. I've seen many get in right out of school.

I was a "I don't know" person as well. But I did know I wanted to specialize. If you don't know, it's really just going to be a gamble for you then. If you hate the military and want to get out, you just lost about $100K (the difference in what you would have made outside and what you will make in the AEGD). If you stay in, you can get into a comp residency without an AEGD at least eventually. So the gamble for the "I don't know" camp is $100K one side and nothing on the other. If I where you, at this point, I wouldn't do an AEGD. If you want to specialize in a conventional specialty like endo, ortho, OS, then the game changes to yes, do one. You don't need a one-year AEGD to get into the two-year AEGD though.

So you think AEGD and GPR are best for those wanting to specialize. I don't want to specialize. I don't like how it limits what you can/can't do and I don't like the idea of the 'buck stopping withe me' on any given area. I prefer the variety and the procedural autonomy that general dentistry provides.

 

[Tooth]

So you think AEGD and GPR are best for those wanting to specialize. I don't want to specialize. I don't like how it limits what you can/can't do and I don't like the idea of the 'buck stopping withe me' on any given area. I prefer the variety and the procedural autonomy that general dentistry provides.

That's exactly right. The one-year AEGD in the Navy is only good for boosting your CV to specialize. I base this opinion off the information given above. There's no point in doing a one-year AEGD and then the two-year AEGD. My advice, for you, is to do the two-year or nothing.

 

[Smills91]

That's exactly right. The one-year AEGD in the Navy is only good for boosting your CV to specialize. I base this opinion off the information given above. There's no point in doing a one-year AEGD and then the two-year AEGD. My advice, for you, is to do the two-year or nothing.

Appreciate the advice. I will definitely take all that into consideration when it comes to applying and accepting/declining the AEGD. Now, if I were to do a credentialing tour with no pgy-1 program, I understand that there are basically 5 locations you get to go to. San Diego, Chicago, Parris Island are the big 3, then Okinawa and Camp Lejeune are smaller.

Do you, or anyone else, know much about those locations and what to expect on a day to day basis? How the clinic managers run things? How competitive or likely it is to go to one or the other.

I could honestly handle any of those locations not named Chicago. I just would hate to be stationed in the part of the country. Okinawa seems appealing to me quite frankly, and I wonder how competitive or likely it is to get stationed there if you put it as your first choice? Parris Island probably appeals to me #2.

It seems to me that if you don't do an AEGD/GPR then you may be more likely to go 'green side'? Is that true?
Thanks.

 

[Kahr]

Appreciate the advice. I will definitely take all that into consideration when it comes to applying and accepting/declining the AEGD. Now, if I were to do a credentialing tour with no pgy-1 program, I understand that there are basically 5 locations you get to go to. San Diego, Chicago, Parris Island are the big 3, then Okinawa and Camp Lejeune are smaller.

Do you, or anyone else, know much about those locations and what to expect on a day to day basis? How the clinic managers run things? How competitive or likely it is to go to one or the other.

I could honestly handle any of those locations not named Chicago. I just would hate to be stationed in the part of the country. Okinawa seems appealing to me quite frankly, and I wonder how competitive or likely it is to get stationed there if you put it as your first choice? Parris Island probably appeals to me #2.

It seems to me that if you don't do an AEGD/GPR then you may be more likely to go 'green side'? Is that true?
Thanks.

From being stationed on Okinawa myself, and visiting Lester (the naval hospital), I would guess they probably have a decent number of spaces available, the place is huge. If it were up to me, that'd be my first choice as well, assuming you can handle the sub-tropical island lifestyle in Japan. Sorry I can't tell you anything about what the job there would be like (I only met some oral surgeons, boy are they busy with the 3rd molars there), but the lifestyle available outside work is awesome if you're into the above type location. You know, I'd also think it'd be easier to get there since the AEGD is gone. *shrug*

 

[Tooth]

Appreciate the advice. I will definitely take all that into consideration when it comes to applying and accepting/declining the AEGD. Now, if I were to do a credentialing tour with no pgy-1 program, I understand that there are basically 5 locations you get to go to. San Diego, Chicago, Parris Island are the big 3, then Okinawa and Camp Lejeune are smaller.

Do you, or anyone else, know much about those locations and what to expect on a day to day basis? How the clinic managers run things? How competitive or likely it is to go to one or the other.

I could honestly handle any of those locations not named Chicago. I just would hate to be stationed in the part of the country. Okinawa seems appealing to me quite frankly, and I wonder how competitive or likely it is to get stationed there if you put it as your first choice? Parris Island probably appeals to me #2.

It seems to me that if you don't do an AEGD/GPR then you may be more likely to go 'green side'? Is that true?
Thanks.

It really just depends on where the Navy has holes when you're up. It's impossible to know. However, some generalizations are as follows. It's cheaper for the Navy to move you to wherever is closest to you. So, if there are holes in Okinawa and Great Lakes and you live in Cleveland, you can imagine where you're going. This is not a hard rule, just a generalization. There's no point in talking about the atmosphere of clinics at any given location because the change in personnel is so fast that the atmosphere is constantly changing. I've never heard anyone complain about Parris Island except that it's apparently in the middle of nowhere. The Walmart is the best local attraction. You'll have to drive about 45 min to Savannah for more fun. But there are some nice beaches I hear.

 

[Nat426]

So I have read some different views on getting into the 2 yr AEGD program right out of dental school. Some say yea, some say nay... For the sake of argument, if you could get accepted to the 2 year right out of dental school, would those two years be counted as neutral payback years? Would you get the 50k board cert. bonus during the 4 years of payback after that if they were neutral?

 

[del Sol DOHC]

So I have read some different views on getting into the 2 yr AEGD program right out of dental school. Some say yea, some say nay... For the sake of argument, if you could get accepted to the 2 year right out of dental school, would those two years be counted as neutral payback years? Would you get the 50k board cert. bonus during the 4 years of payback after that if they were neutral?

As I understand it, if you did the Comprehensive Dentistry residency right out of school, those two years in the residency would be neutral for your HPSP obligation, but would incur an additional obligation that you would pay back concurrently with your original HPSP commitment. The $50k bonus that you asked about is not for board certification, it is the multi-year retention bonus, which you would not be eligible to receive immediately following the residency. After you satisfy your HPSP obligation, you can extend for 2, 3, or 4 more years in exchange for a multi-year retention bonus of $25k, $38k, or $50k per year, respectively. The board certification pay is $500 per month, and you would be eligible for that as soon as you successfully became board certified after your residency. I hope that was clear.

 

[Nat426]

Thanks for the info. del sol, that makes more sense. Just to make sure I understand the payback, concurrent payback means at the same time? While consecutive is 4 yrs. then 2 more.

 

[del Sol DOHC]

Thanks for the info. del sol, that makes more sense. Just to make sure I understand the payback, concurrent payback means at the same time? While consecutive is 4 yrs. then 2 more.

Correct.

 

[kevin512]

If you're considering a Navy AEGD, please read the following. If someone told you that doing an AEGD will keep you off the amalgam line, IT'S A CRUEL LIE!

From what I saw in San Diego that latter seems to be very true. I went to San Diego on AT orders. I saw multiple GPRs and AEGDs. What I did find out that might provide some relief to some ppl. If you do a PGY-1 and then ask for a small ship (LHD etc) then you have the ability to do more (talked to one fellow that said he does whatever he wants- although endo was a challenge on a swaying ship).

Also if you intend to go against the grain... good effin' luck.

After seeing what SD had to offer, I would like to either (1) do 4 yrs and get out (2) do AEGD and try to be on a small ship. If I was in the top 20% of my class I would seriously think about specializing.

 

[navyny]

If you're considering a Navy AEGD, please read the following.

If someone told you that doing an AEGD will keep you off the amalgam line, IT'S A CRUEL LIE!

While doing my AEGD I was trained on molar endo, endo retreats, third molar extractions, complex fixed prosthodontics, implant placement and restoration, etc. But for what? Now that I'm done with the AEGD my clinic director told me I'm not allowed to do anything other than exams or operative except for "maybe the last day of the month if dental readiness is over 94.5%" What an f-ing waste of my training!!!!

The bottom line is that when you're done with your AEGD, you'll still be just a Lieutenant and not a specialist. This means that you're still at the bottom of the dental corps food chain. CAPT's, CDR's, and even LCDR's are not going to be doing operative unless they want to, which isn't very often. So, at this point, I expect the next four years of my life will be no better than if I hadn't done an AEGD at all.

That being said, if you plan on specializing, it's still something you can put on your CV. They can't take that away from you.

But, if you're planning on getting out and staying in general dentistry, don't do a Navy AEGD. It's not worth a year of your time to train you and then not allow you to do anything you were trained and credentialed to do.

No disrespect Tooth, but I just don't really agree with your logic. Not at all actually.

Let's assume that what you say about the "amalgam line" is true, the experience you get and the procedures you learn are worth something. A lot in my opinion. Yes, even 4 years from then. Not only during the few times when dental readiness is achieved but more importantly, when you finish with your service.

If you are saddened by this and you are planning for a career as a GP in Navy? Well then you either have to learn to love amalgam, I guess, or leave!

 

[Tooth]

No disrespect Tooth, but I just don't really agree with your logic. Not at all actually.

Let's assume that what you say about the "amalgam line" is true, the experience you get and the procedures you learn are worth something. A lot in my opinion. Yes, even 4 years from then. Not only during the few times when dental readiness is achieved but more importantly, when you finish with your service.

If you are saddened by this and you are planning for a career as a GP in Navy? Well then you either have to learn to love amalgam, I guess, or leave!

Dude, I'm totally getting out of the Navy. I can't wait. I'm just doing my time, like a friggin' jail bird. And don't get me wrong, my five total years as a Navy jail bird are far better than the 25 years I could owe a bank somewhere. My axe isn't against the Navy. It's against doing a Navy AEGD if you just want to get out and be a GP.

Like I said in a previous post, ask any dentist who got out of the military after just four years how confident they feel about doing removable prosth. This is an area of dentistry that you just won't get any practice with whether you want it or not. We just don't serve that patient pool. The reality is that your skills will atrophy when not used. Ask any military dentist who went into an administrative function for 4-5 years and then went back to clinical. It's simple, you use it or you lose it. I don't think there's any need to argue this point, it's fairly obvious.

Another important aspect about not being able to practice all scopes of dentistry is that you lose your ability to improve your skills. Even if your skills don't atrophy, they certainly won't improve if you're not allowed to do them. Four years of lost time you could have spent improving your skills is a terrible waste.

 

[Smills91]

Dude, I'm totally getting out of the Navy. I can't wait. I'm just doing my time, like a friggin' jail bird. And don't get me wrong, my five total years as a Navy jail bird are far better than the 25 years I could owe a bank somewhere. My axe isn't against the Navy. It's against doing a Navy AEGD if you just want to get out and be a GP.

Like I said in a previous post, ask any dentist who got out of the military after just four years how confident they feel about doing removable prosth. This is an area of dentistry that you just won't get any practice with whether you want it or not. We just don't serve that patient pool. The reality is that your skills will atrophy when not used. Ask any military dentist who went into an administrative function for 4-5 years and then went back to clinical. It's simple, you use it or you lose it. I don't think there's any need to argue this point, it's fairly obvious.

Another important aspect about not being able to practice all scopes of dentistry is that you lose your ability to improve your skills. Even if your skills don't atrophy, they certainly won't improve if you're not allowed to do them. Four years of lost time you could have spent improving your skills is a terrible waste.

It's a pretty compelling argument. I totally see where you are coming from. However, does doing an AEGD allow you to get a more 'desirable' post in the Navy compared to those who didn't do the AEGD?

 

[Tooth]

It's a pretty compelling argument. I totally see where you are coming from. However, does doing an AEGD allow you to get a more 'desirable' post in the Navy compared to those who didn't do the AEGD?

Sometimes...but just for the residency or first tour. After that, it's all the same. So if you want to do an AEGD just to go to San Diego for a year, you can probably do that. But you are giving up a year to get that location.

 

[UBDent19]

Ask any dentist who got out of the military after just four years how confident they feel about doing removable prosth. This is an area of dentistry that you just won't get any practice with whether you want it or not. We just don't serve that patient pool. The reality is that your skills will atrophy when not used. Ask any military dentist who went into an administrative function for 4-5 years and then went back to clinical. It's simple, you use it or you lose it.

Another important aspect about not being able to practice all scopes of dentistry is that you lose your ability to improve your skills. Even if your skills don't atrophy, they certainly won't improve if you're not allowed to do them. Four years of lost time you could have spent improving your skills is a terrible waste.

AFDDS, can you weigh in on this?

 

[alldemteeth]

Sometimes...but just for the residency or first tour. After that, it's all the same. So if you want to do an AEGD just to go to San Diego for a year, you can probably do that. But you are giving up a year to get that location.

Tooth,

I saw you mentioned heading to an ortho residency post-payback, why not through the Navy right after your AEGD?

 

[Smills91]

Tooth,

I saw you mentioned heading to an ortho residency post-payback, why not through the Navy right after your AEGD?

The Navy has very few needs for Orthodontists. And any needs are almost exclusively overseas.

 

[jim85213]

Dude, I'm totally getting out of the Navy. I can't wait. I'm just doing my time, like a friggin' jail bird. And don't get me wrong, my five total years as a Navy jail bird are far better than the 25 years I could owe a bank somewhere. My axe isn't against the Navy. It's against doing a Navy AEGD if you just want to get out and be a GP.

Like I said in a previous post, ask any dentist who got out of the military after just four years how confident they feel about doing removable prosth. This is an area of dentistry that you just won't get any practice with whether you want it or not. We just don't serve that patient pool. The reality is that your skills will atrophy when not used. Ask any military dentist who went into an administrative function for 4-5 years and then went back to clinical. It's simple, you use it or you lose it. I don't think there's any need to argue this point, it's fairly obvious.

Another important aspect about not being able to practice all scopes of dentistry is that you lose your ability to improve your skills. Even if your skills don't atrophy, they certainly won't improve if you're not allowed to do them. Four years of lost time you could have spent improving your skills is a terrible waste.

Does the same go for those who did a GPR, from what you've seen?

 

[UBDent19]

The Navy has very few needs for Orthodontists. And any needs are almost exclusively overseas.

I spent about 45min on the phone with an Army oral surgeon the other day. He told me that there are definitely opportunities in ortho through the Army but you spend much of your time moving teeth to prepare for orthognathic surgery rather than for cosmetic reasons. Soldiers usually aren't in one place long enough to have time to complete orthodontic treatment for cosmetic reasons. Additionally, their family members are treated by the contracted civilian dentists through their dental insurance. Army orthodontists overseas do end up placing braces on family members though (which is probably why Smills91 mentioned the need being mostly overseas).

 

[Tooth]

Tooth,

I saw you mentioned heading to an ortho residency post-payback, why not through the Navy right after your AEGD?

1. The Navy doesn't have an Ortho program. So, unless you can get into the tri-service ortho program in Texas, you're going to be going to a civilian program like everyone else. A Navy sponsored scholarship to a civilian program will incur an obligation, an obligation that I am not willing to agree to.

2. The Navy is going to pay for my Ortho training anyway, via the Post 9/11 GI bill. Clearly the Post 9/11 GI bill won't pay nearly as much as a Navy sponsored scholarship, but there is no additional obligation.

3. No one gets accepted into an Ortho program in the Navy right after their AEGD. No one. But even if you did, your payback would be consecutive, not concurrent because there's an over 95% probability that you'll have to go to a civilian program. There is also a high probability that you will be going to Japan afterwards. I don't want to go to Japan.

4. Completing an AEGD, four years of payback, three years of ortho residency, and three years of payback puts you in the Navy for 11 years and a LCDR pushing CDR. How likely is it at that point that you will get out of the Navy with just 9 more years to retirement? You're going to stay in. You will be locked into a system you can no longer refuse. I choose freedom.

 

[Tooth]

Does the same go for those who did a GPR, from what you've seen?

Yup. Same boat.

 

[Faux]

Real sad to here about this. I was interested in NAVY but not at the expense of my hand skills, especially if I do a one year gpr/aegd. If anything, this should be posted in the pre dental forum for more exposure.