Navy deployment rate

[AdverseAffinity]

Just wanted to check something. My navy recruiter, as a tool to recruit against the army, says the army deploys doctors much more than the navy, and right now the navy has a 7 month maximum, that you have to be home twice as long as you were deployed before you can go back, and that all of people in the navy who can do that job have to be deployed after you get back before you can be deployed again. Is this true? It's difficult weighing training opportunities in the army versus life and rates of deployment in the navy.

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[teacherman84]

You dont need to make a new thread for every new question you think of...most of the people on here will read most of the threads and answer your question. Read through a lof of the FAQ and other HPSP threads and youll find a lot of the questions youre asking answered.

That said, I dont know what the Navy deployments look like now but keep in mind that deployments change based on the needs in the world at that time. I have a family member who joined the AF being told AF deployments werent longer than 4 months...withing a year of joining they were off on a 6 month deployment. Also, i know AF docs who deployed to Army spots and were gone a year. Not sure how common this is or if it happens with the Navy too but just keep in mind the rules change to fit the needs of the service.

 

[AdverseAffinity]

Thanks. I have read a lot here. I hadn't seen much comparison between army and navy GME (my last thread) and I wanted to see if current navy docs could tell me if what my recruiter said is currently the navy policy (more so to see if he's extending the truth than actually knowing how often I might be deployed).

 

[Perrotfish]

During the height of the Iraq war the Army did become well known for 15+ month deployments, while all the other services capped at 9 months most of the time. Not sure of the frequency of those deployments in any given time periord. However that is a very transient policy, and during the next war it could very well be the Navy that gets to spend more time away from home.

I wouldn't base your choice of service on deployment rate or length as that is a policy that is almost certain to change by the time you finish your medical training (assuming we are at war at all). The quality, location, and structure of your residency training is much more likely, though not guarenteed, to be in its current state 4 years from now and is therefore a much more important basis for your decision. Training hospitals are multipbillion dollar investments, residency accredidation is a multi year process, and theres just no easy way to drastically change what we do there.

 

[NavyFP]

Just wanted to check something. My navy recruiter, as a tool to recruit against the army, says the army deploys doctors much more than the navy, and right now the navy has a 7 month maximum, that you have to be home twice as long as you were deployed before you can go back, and that all of people in the navy who can do that job have to be deployed after you get back before you can be deployed again. Is this true? It's difficult weighing training opportunities in the army versus life and rates of deployment in the navy.

BwaaaaaaaHaaaaaHaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(note the large number of exclamation points.)

It usually works that way, but.....not always.

Personal example.

Left for deployment Jun 2009 and returned Feb 2010. It was decided I was the ONLY guy to fill a spot with the Marines. Left Home Sep 2010....Deployed Jan 2011 and returned Jan 2012. They owed me a month of extra special leave as comp time. Only got to use half of it.

So the recruiter is FOS. His eyes must be brown.

If he has a problem with this.......he can call me.

 

[AdverseAffinity]

BwaaaaaaaHaaaaaHaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(note the large number of exclamation points.)

It usually works that way, but.....not always.

Personal example.

Left for deployment Jun 2009 and returned Feb 2010. It was decided I was the ONLY guy to fill a spot with the Marines. Left Home Sep 2010....Deployed Jan 2011 and returned Jan 2012. They owed me a month of extra special leave as comp time. Only got to use half of it.

So the recruiter is FOS. His eyes must be brown.

If he has a problem with this.......he can call me.

Ha, alright. Thanks.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

 

[AdverseAffinity]

During the height of the Iraq war the Army did become well known for 15+ month deployments, while all the other services capped at 9 months most of the time. Not sure of the frequency of those deployments in any given time periord. However that is a very transient policy, and during the next war it could very well be the Navy that gets to spend more time away from home.

I wouldn't base your choice of service on deployment rate or length as that is a policy that is almost certain to change by the time you finish your medical training (assuming we are at war at all). The quality, location, and structure of your residency training is much more likely, though not guarenteed, to be in its current state 4 years from now and is therefore a much more important basis for your decision. Training hospitals are multipbillion dollar investments, residency accredidation is a multi year process, and theres just no easy way to drastically change what we do there.

Well, that kinda begs the question, which service has the best training right now, army or navy (based comments from each side are welcome and encouraged)?

 

[Perrotfish]

Well, that kinda begs the question, which service has the best training right now, army or navy (based comments from each side are welcome and encouraged)?

I think the Navy has the best primary care, because GMO tours protect their primary care leadership from being hammer deployed out of the military. I have no data to back that up, though. Army has the widest array of in service residencies and the least year to year variation in the stats required for each residency. Navy has more opporunites to go civilian, though not enough you can count on them. Navy still has physician leadership at the surgeon general's post. I think the qualities of the patient volume and the facilities are similar for both services.

So I guess which is best depends on the specialty you want and your openness to a GMO tour.

 

[Kingfisher]

If you are on a ship, there is no 7 month minimum. Most deployments last AT LEAST 7 months with 1 to 4 months of extensions. There are also on again off again work ups getting ready for the next deployment. Generally you are gone more than you are at your home port.

 

[AdverseAffinity]

If you are on a ship, there is no 7 month minimum. Most deployments last AT LEAST 7 months with 1 to 4 months of extensions. There are also on again off again work ups getting ready for the next deployment. Generally you are gone more than you are at your home port.

Outside of the afloat GMOs, how commonly are physicians afloat? Honestly, I'm not sure how much I'd love being on a boat, but I realize if I choose the Navy, that's something I may have to live with.

 

[Kingfisher]

Outside of the afloat GMOs, how commonly are physicians afloat? Honestly, I'm not sure how much I'd love being on a boat, but I realize if I choose the Navy, that's something I may have to live with.

Not sure the exact number. ~ a couple dozen or so?? You would only go on the big decks. The shipboard clinical spots are usually for the primary care types.

On carriers, the SMO (senior medical officer) billet can be filled by almost anyone. They are only clinical as they want to be because there is a primary care (usually FP), PA, and IDC ( independent duty corpsman) to see pts. My experience has shown the temptation to get sucked into all the admin is usually too much, so few SMOs actually see pts on a regular basis. On deployments the air wings will bring a few flight surgeons with them (GMO spots) and they will do clinic a few times a week.

On non-carrier big decks there is usually only one primary type who serves as the SMO.

Another possibility would be the spots in wonderful locations such as Bahrain. You would go there for a year unaccompanied. 😍

 

[vellnueve]

Another possibility would be the spots in wonderful locations such as Bahrain. You would go there for a year unaccompanied. 😍

Bahrain has been accompanied in the past; I am not sure about right now.

 

[AdverseAffinity]

So I guess which is best depends on the specialty you want and your openness to a GMO tour.

Is this to imply that you'd recommend the navy for primary care, but possibly the army for the specialists?

 

[Perrotfish]

Is this to imply that you'd recommend the navy for primary care, but possibly the army for the specialists?

I would recommend the Navy for primary care, yes. And by primary care I mean Peds, IM, FP, and maybe Psych. I think the Navy's GMO system really does a great job of protecting primary care from constantly deploying in opperational roles.

I think the Army is better for non-primary care only in that they often won't every have their training interrupted by a GMO tour, and their high proportion of in house training means that you'll have more reliable odds of matching into a specialty/fellowship with a given set of stats. I'm not sure that there's any significant advantage to being an Army vs. Navy specialist once you are actually done with training.

 

[AdverseAffinity]

Cool. I think I'm leaning navy because I like the idea of most of the GMOs, and the Navy's locations might be best for my wife's work, if she always works (she'll be a nurse).

Are these all of the navy fellowships? www.med.navy.mil/sites/navmedmpte/gme/Pages/ACGMEapprovedpositions.aspx

I heard that the Navy has fellowships for neonatology and ob subspecialties, but they're not listed.

 

[Perrotfish]

yeah that's definitely not all of them. I know we have FTIS for at least child neuro and neonatology because people matched in them. Maybe some of them are interservice, like our neurosurgery program? Sorry, I don't have a better list than the one you have.

 

[Kilgoretrout 65]

Well, that kinda begs the question, which service has the best training right now, army or navy (based comments from each side are welcome and encouraged)?

As an AF doc, I think we are all in for a shock with the budget problems. Will it pass? Maybe, maybe not. I just heard that a very large Army hospital had to cut its budget $25 million. The strain of taking care of the warfighter, seeing enough old people to enhance your skills, and propping up GME is going to crush the system. Army vs AF vs Navy HPSP? Caveat emptor.

 

[UltimateDO]

Not just "a" large Army hospital...most of them...after seeing the contingency plans, it going to be extremely ugly and not fun.

 

[Kingfisher]

Bahrain has been accompanied in the past; I am not sure about right now.

I have seen dependants there as well. The question is, why would you take your spouse to a desert island where it is 170 degrees, completely void of all plant life, and filled with people who don't like us? No. Thank. You. Unaccompanied by choice.

I was driving around downtown Manama and saw a small hospital for Maternity and Geriatrics. Interesting combination. 😕

 

[vellnueve]

I have seen dependants there as well. The question is, why would you take your spouse to a desert island where it is 170 degrees, completely void of all plant life, and filled with people who don't like us? No. Thank. You. Unaccompanied by choice.

I was driving around downtown Manama and saw a small hospital for Maternity and Geriatrics. Interesting combination. 😕

It's actually supposed to be a decent party city, at least according to the guys here who've been there.

 

[BOHICA-FIGMO]

Just wanted to check something. My navy recruiter, as a tool to recruit against the army, says the army deploys doctors much more than the navy, and right now the navy has a 7 month maximum, that you have to be home twice as long as you were deployed before you can go back, and that all of people in the navy who can do that job have to be deployed after you get back before you can be deployed again. Is this true? It's difficult weighing training opportunities in the army versus life and rates of deployment in the navy.

If you are super fit, high speed yet don't want to deploy, go UMO! We never deploy! Sad but true!

 

[AdverseAffinity]

In actuality, the UMO is one big reason that I'm considering the Navy. I'm certainly not super fit, but I'm training to be able to do all of that (the swim would probably be the hardest part of the dive school prt). The UMO does sound fun, but honestly, I don't have a burning desire to be a diver. I think it would be cool, but I don't know if everyone that goes and does that are hardcore divers/swimmers. I would love to hear more about the UMO. I've read everything I could find from US dive doc on here, but hearing things from current guys would be cool, too.

 

[notdeadyet]

From the more recent reports, you want to love supporting subs more than being or working with divers,,,

 

[BOHICA-FIGMO]

In actuality, the UMO is one big reason that I'm considering the Navy. I'm certainly not super fit, but I'm training to be able to do all of that (the swim would probably be the hardest part of the dive school prt). The UMO does sound fun, but honestly, I don't have a burning desire to be a diver. I think it would be cool, but I don't know if everyone that goes and does that are hardcore divers/swimmers. I would love to hear more about the UMO. I've read everything I could find from US dive doc on here, but hearing things from current guys would be cool, too.

I am currently a UMO in a Spec Ops billet. I say "super fit" because dive school is tough. Much more so than any of your other options coming out of internship. Therefore, UMO tends to attract more of the physical "studs" than, say, flight medicine. Even the guys who end up with subs still have to go through dive school.

UMOs serve 3 primary communitites: subs, divers, and special ops. On subs, you are not actually deployed with the subs (except for short periods) that job goes to the IDC. Your main job is Sub Physicals and and answering by message any questions the sub IDCs have. With divers, you could end up at any dive locker anywhere. The ND is something of dying rate in the Navy as more and more of the work traditionally done by NDs goes to contractors. These billets, you will utilize more traditional "dive school" skills because of things like scheduled decompression, etc. With spec ops, you will be diving at 25' with 50' "excursion(s)". You may also be assigned to a Spec Ops unit whose primary job is not diving (e.g., MARSOC, SBTs, SEAL teams). Your primary job there will be to bottom line NSW physicals (because the MANMED 15-105 says that only a UMO can bottom line these). Your chances of playing with cool toys = high. Your chances of going downrange or actually using your medical skills in direct support of actual operations = zero. Again, that is what IDCs are for according to the Navy. That is the stuff they don't tell you about in the recruiting adds. There are also a smattering of research jobs at NSMRL and NEDU and training billets at NUMI and NDSTC, FWIW.

 

[AdverseAffinity]

I am currently a UMO in a Spec Ops billet. I say "super fit" because dive school is tough. Much more so than any of your other options coming out of internship. Therefore, UMO tends to attract more of the physical "studs" than, say, flight medicine. Even the guys who end up with subs still have to go through dive school.

UMOs serve 3 primary communitites: subs, divers, and special ops. On subs, you are not actually deployed with the subs (except for short periods) that job goes to the IDC. Your main job is Sub Physicals and and answering by message any questions the sub IDCs have. With divers, you could end up at any dive locker anywhere. The ND is something of dying rate in the Navy as more and more of the work traditionally done by NDs goes to contractors. These billets, you will utilize more traditional "dive school" skills because of things like scheduled decompression, etc. With spec ops, you will be diving at 25' with 50' "excursion(s)". You may also be assigned to a Spec Ops unit whose primary job is not diving (e.g., MARSOC, SBTs, SEAL teams). Your primary job there will be to bottom line NSW physicals (because the MANMED 15-105 says that only a UMO can bottom line these). Your chances of playing with cool toys = high. Your chances of going downrange or actually using your medical skills in direct support of actual operations = zero. Again, that is what IDCs are for according to the Navy. That is the stuff they don't tell you about in the recruiting adds. There are also a smattering of research jobs at NSMRL and NEDU and training billets at NUMI and NDSTC, FWIW.

Thanks for your response. I'm pretty sure I could do the pt, with a little more training.

Is being a UMO fun? To me, it sounds one of the few ways of getting a little more "military" than any other Milmed opportunity. Would you say that's true? I kinda want to do something "fun" as a military doctor before I have to settle down as a specialist or whatever.

 

[Kingfisher]

It's actually supposed to be a decent party city, at least according to the guys here who've been there.

When I was there the two words that came to my mind were NOT "Party City". More like "Hellz No"

Seriously, it is a conservative Muslim country. If your friends know a secret place where the burqas come off and the music is loud, have them PM me. 😀

 

[CajunMedic]

I am currently a UMO in a Spec Ops billet. I say "super fit" because dive school is tough. Much more so than any of your other options coming out of internship. Therefore, UMO tends to attract more of the physical "studs" than, say, flight medicine. Even the guys who end up with subs still have to go through dive school.

UMOs serve 3 primary communitites: subs, divers, and special ops. On subs, you are not actually deployed with the subs (except for short periods) that job goes to the IDC. Your main job is Sub Physicals and and answering by message any questions the sub IDCs have. With divers, you could end up at any dive locker anywhere. The ND is something of dying rate in the Navy as more and more of the work traditionally done by NDs goes to contractors. These billets, you will utilize more traditional "dive school" skills because of things like scheduled decompression, etc. With spec ops, you will be diving at 25' with 50' "excursion(s)". You may also be assigned to a Spec Ops unit whose primary job is not diving (e.g., MARSOC, SBTs, SEAL teams). Your primary job there will be to bottom line NSW physicals (because the MANMED 15-105 says that only a UMO can bottom line these). Your chances of playing with cool toys = high. Your chances of going downrange or actually using your medical skills in direct support of actual operations = zero. Again, that is what IDCs are for according to the Navy. That is the stuff they don't tell you about in the recruiting adds. There are also a smattering of research jobs at NSMRL and NEDU and training billets at NUMI and NDSTC, FWIW.

Thanks for telling it like it is. I've been interested in UMO since I decided on the Navy HPSP.

 

[buchemist]

I think the Navy has the best primary care, because GMO tours protect their primary care leadership from being hammer deployed out of the military. I have no data to back that up, though.

Really pay attention to this. This means that if you are not interested in primary care, as a GMO you will be used to "protect" the Navy FPs from doing the job THEY SIGNED UP FOR which is to take care of ACTIVE DUTY DEPLOYED Sailors and Marines. They would rather take care of dependents and shore duty personnel than being "hammer deployed out of the military" even if it means sending out the least trained physicians in the industrial world to their job for them. I will tell you this attitude is pervasive. I was relieved by an O-5 FP in Afghanistan, and the first question he asked me is "how fast can I get my FMF pin before I get sent home early". He had a clinic to run for the dependents back home, so this job really was for the internship trained flight surgeons to take care of, not him. Really, it's the best primary care...

 

[NavyFP]

Really pay attention to this. This means that if you are not interested in primary care, as a GMO you will be used to "protect" the Navy FPs from doing the job THEY SIGNED UP FOR which is to take care of ACTIVE DUTY DEPLOYED Sailors and Marines. They would rather take care of dependents and shore duty personnel than being "hammer deployed out of the military" even if it means sending out the least trained physicians in the industrial world to their job for them. I will tell you this attitude is pervasive. I was relieved by an O-5 FP in Afghanistan, and the first question he asked me is "how fast can I get my FMF pin before I get sent home early". He had a clinic to run for the dependents back home, so this job really was for the internship trained flight surgeons to take care of, not him. Really, it's the best primary care...

As a guy who has deployed 4 time since 9/11 (3 combat tours) one of which was a year in AFG as an O5, that attitude pisses me off big time. Would love to see that jerk fail to make O6.

 

[vellnueve]

When I was there the two words that came to my mind were NOT "Party City". More like "Hellz No"

Seriously, it is a conservative Muslim country. If your friends know a secret place where the burqas come off and the music is loud, have them PM me. 😀

The Seabees and CEC officers we have here swear by the place...

 

[orbitsurgMD]

Manama was interesting when I was there TDY, but it has become less safe and more restive, especially the Shiite population, which tends to be poorer and isolated. The hotels catered to Saudis who weekended on the island because the hotels were permitted to serve alcohol to guests, and the causeway to Daharan gave easy access to the Kingdom. At the time, if you went on permanent orders, you could rent a villa--their term for a nicely appointed single family home--for the OHA you received. Some of the officers together rented very large estate properties (fully furnished, marble floors, pool and pool house, 12-person dining room, lux kitchen, billiards room, etc.) and had household staff. I had a decent European-style apartment during my much shorter stay. Even then, you had to be mindful you weren't in Kansas anymore. There were stories of officers having stones thrown at them by the locals while out in the city neighborhoods running in typical western running shorts and t-shirts, behavior that was considered immodest by some there.