NBEO Scores Delayed

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KMK has made a statement on their website that they became aware of the incident when the rest of us did. They are not being investigated and stated that they have no reason to believe that the school or any student involved is associated with KMK.

Thanks for clearing that up. My apologies for the unfounded rumor.

prettygreeneyes: Actually, UCBSO does participate in the KMK. Most of my class used it for the boards this year. It was truly an amazing resource and as you can see in other posts I've made, I *highly* recommend it for preparing for boards. It was my PRIMARY source for studying, and while I don't know if I passed, I don't think I would have passed without it. A lot of highlighted facts and tips of the day were actually on the boards, and it really helped a lot. I apologize if I've offended anyone by bringing up the rumor, and I can tell you that my classmates hold the KMK in high regard too, and were all shocked by that rumor. I'm glad that it's not true. You're right, perhaps I should've just kept it to myself, but I'm glad I didn't, because now I know the rumor is not true, and now everyone can breathe a sigh of relief for the integrity of this amazing course. I intend on using it for Boards Part 2.

 

[KHE]

If left to me, the faculty member would be fired, the class president expelled, & any student who submitted questions barred from taking any NBEO exam until after graduation.

To me, that seems heavy handed.

Based on the rumors floating around, this doesn't seem like it's a scenario where people attempted to deceive, or to attain a competitive advantage for themselves over other test takers.

What happened is not acceptable but this doesn't rise up to the level of taking notes into the exam, or trying to have someone else take the test for you.

I'm actually more annoyed at the NBEO for this. The fact that students copying questions is an issue at all is a real problem. If I was the head of the NBEO, I would tell students "HEY! Go ahead and copy all the questions you want because WE NEVER USE THE SAME QUESTION TWICE!"

I don't know how large the NBEO test question banks are but it would seem to me that if this is causing such a level of concern for them, it's not large enough.

So while i certainly do not hold the students, and certainly not the faculty member harmless in this, I think the NBEO bears a substantial responsibility here. When I taught school, I NEVER used the same question twice. I always generated a new examination and yes it was time consuming but that's part of the job.


As far as punishments go, I don't really know. The faculty member probably has to resign. (code for: resign or we fire you.)

For the students, it would make little sense to cancel the scores because it would seem to me that the scores for this particular examination ARE valid. I would not cancel the scores.

As such, I would propose for the students involved:

That they be required to take one, 3 credit class at a local university on medical or educational ethics at their own expense, on their own time and obtain a grade of C or better and complete an essay on why what they did was wrong and it should be submitted to the NBEO before any student is eligible to sit for another NBEO exam.

The class president SHOULD be held to a higher standard. She should have the same punishment AND she should resign the presidency. Maybe she should be forced to wash all the trial lenses in the clinic as well. lol. Ooooo....cruel and unusual.

 

[achirum]

To me, that seems heavy handed.

Based on the rumors floating around, this doesn't seem like it's a scenario where people attempted to deceive, or to attain a competitive advantage for themselves over other test takers.

What happened is not acceptable but this doesn't rise up to the level of taking notes into the exam, or trying to have someone else take the test for you.

I'm actually more annoyed at the NBEO for this. The fact that students copying questions is an issue at all is a real problem. If I was the head of the NBEO, I would tell students "HEY! Go ahead and copy all the questions you want because WE NEVER USE THE SAME QUESTION TWICE!"

I don't know how large the NBEO test question banks are but it would seem to me that if this is causing such a level of concern for them, it's not large enough.

So while i certainly do not hold the students, and certainly not the faculty member harmless in this, I think the NBEO bears a substantial responsibility here. When I taught school, I NEVER used the same question twice. I always generated a new examination and yes it was time consuming but that's part of the job.


As far as punishments go, I don't really know. The faculty member probably has to resign. (code for: resign or we fire you.)

For the students, it would make little sense to cancel the scores because it would seem to me that the scores for this particular examination ARE valid. I would not cancel the scores.

As such, I would propose for the students involved:

That they be required to take one, 3 credit class at a local university on medical or educational ethics at their own expense, on their own time and obtain a grade of C or better and complete an essay on why what they did was wrong and it should be submitted to the NBEO before any student is eligible to sit for another NBEO exam.

The class president SHOULD be held to a higher standard. She should have the same punishment AND she should resign the presidency. Maybe she should be forced to wash all the trial lenses in the clinic as well. lol. Ooooo....cruel and unusual.

 

[coloboma3375]

I think it's best if we don't discuss this topic any further. Let NBEO work out whatever they have to work out and wait for the results. Rumors, assumptions, etc can only really jeopardize all of our careers at this time

 

[Eyeris]

You guys are acting like you can keep it a secret who did the cheating. Youve got several hundred students out there furious with what's happened and on the edge cuz we didnt get our scores and we dont even know what will happen to us. And as we're heading off for externships, we don't even know if we need to bring study material with us or not. Darn you boston kids! =(

 

[coloboma3375]

I don't know which schools are involved but I'm just following what my school advised us to do - let them work it out and wait. But, do what you want

 

[dilator82]

I think it's best if we don't discuss this topic any further. Let NBEO work out whatever they have to work out and wait for the results. Rumors, assumptions, etc can only really jeopardize all of our careers at this time

@Coloboma: What school do you go to?

 

[coloboma3375]

@Coloboma: What school do you go to?

That question is irrelevant - but fyi I'm not involved in this 'cheating' scandal in any way. I'm just repeating what has already been mentioned in this tread. This controversy is embarrassing to our profession and making conjectures about the whole situation doesn't help anyone.

 

[sniklegem]

Point is... I think a lot of people are upset that NBEO waited until May 5th to tell all the students what was going on and that they were holding the scores another month. Evidently (based on what has been said here) NBEO knew about this incident a while ago. I'd be upset, too, if I were a 3rd year and trying to figure out what to haul on extern and what to keep in storage (or give to underclassmen for next year).

 

[optojake]

lol, "Darn you boston kids"? hmm... i think i figured out what school it is! lol... but thats just speculation...

what stinks is that we wont find out until mid june... which means if we failed thats one less month we have to study for the retake. this is NOT a private matter...lets just get that out in the open. when it affects EVERY 3rd year student (and some 4th years) in optometry schools. and it doesnt put shame on our profession... just google 'standardized test cheating' and you'll see that it pretty much happens in every profession.

 

[drbizzaro]

remember if you will, back when everyone was applying for optometry school - many looked at NBEO passing rates and used that as one of the factors in choosing a school

I know that many optometry schools want their schools to outperform the others, or if they are known to do bad on the NBEO, to somehow "help" their students get a higher percentage pass rate

Some of the optometry schools have significantly lower NBEO pass rates than others.

 

[blysssful]

If the situation is verified, I'm pretty sure the students AND the professor are going to get much more than just a slap on the wrist.

This is an excerpt article about cheating on boards linked from the NBEO site (the article was written in 2003, but obviously is very relevant):

"The group that gives the standardized exam that is used to license physical therapists has filed federal lawsuits against four graduates who they charge logged onto an Internet chat room last summer and traded more than 100 questions that had been leaked from the standardized national exam.

The Federation of State Boards of Physical Therapy is claiming that the four, two from California and two from Florida, violated copyright laws.

The National Association of Boards of Pharmacy said it was preparing similar lawsuits against 15 foreign-trained pharmacists it caught trading 200 exam questions last summer on two Web sites -- one Indian, the other Korean. The association also has asked the FBI to investigate.

The National Board of Podiatric Medical Examiners and its testing agent, The Chauncey Group International, refused last summer to validate the scores of hundreds of students from four of the nation's seven podiatry colleges because of worries about cheating."

http://www.optometry.org/articles/cheating.htm

 

[Mixin Marc]

I've heard from like 3 separate sources that it was NECO. Hmm...

if it was NECO, then their methods could have helped their pass rates:

06 07 08 09
National Boards Pass Rate (All Schools) 90% 93% 94% 91%
NECO National Boards Pass Rate 79% 80% 92% 92%



I recall in 06 how they wanted to really find ways to increase board scores. Maybe cheating was their method?

 

[Mixin Marc]

KMK has made a statement on their website that they became aware of the incident when the rest of us did. They are not being investigated and stated that they have no reason to believe that the school or any student involved is associated with KMK.

I see nothing on KMK's website that says anything about the NBEO cheating incident

 

[myope]

I see nothing on KMK's website that says anything about the NBEO cheating incident

It's posted in their members area.

 

[Mewcakes]

What if we're all looking in the wrong direction? Wouldn't it be interesting if it was PR? Well, maybe it wouldn't be that interesting for you. But still, intriguing thought for me. 😛

 

[Optogal]

If the situation is verified, I'm pretty sure the students AND the professor are going to get much more than just a slap on the wrist.

Geez, you may be right. Clicking away, I found this:

http://www.testpublishers.org/Con2002/bios.html

[SIZE=-1]Leon Gross, Ph.D.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
Director of Psychometrics & Research
National Board of Examiners in Optometry[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Leon Gross, Ph.D. serves as Director of Psychometrics and Research for the National Board of Examiners in Optometry, and as psychometric consultant to other credentialing boards. Under his leadership, the National Board in Optometry became the first national board for a fully licensed health profession to replace grading-on-a-curve with criterion-referenced standards, and the first to implement a national performance test.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Dr. Gross has served as a commissioner on the National Commission for Certifying Agencies, and as founding editor of the CLEAR Exam Review, and principal co-author of Principles of Fairness for the Council on Licensure, Enforcement, and Regulation. He has numerous publications and has given many presentations on testing issues.[/SIZE]

In the link above from Blyssful, he's quoted as saying:

"I see no reason it would affect one profession and not another," said Leon Gross, associate executive director of the National Board of Examiners in Optometry.

He authored the following essays:

https://www.fsbpt.org/ForFaculty/NPTEArticles/PsychometricPart1/
https://www.fsbpt.org/ForFaculty/NPTEArticles/PsychometricPart2/

"What then is our biggest fear? Consider memorization of test content. I am not referring to inevitable, isolated recall of a particularly easy, difficult, or personally resonating item. Rather, I am referring to the systematic, concerted, organized memorization of test items by groups or classes of test takers for the specific purpose of reproduction and distribution, whether for sale or as a free study aide for future candidates."

"When a law is broken, "I didn't know" is not a sufficient explanation, justification, or excuse."

"It is surprising how many faculties are unaware of the intellectual property issues. In fact, I have heard of situations in several professions in which students were asked by faculty to memorize items. To some extent, this is because faculties are sometimes evaluated by their students' performance on board tests. Despite good intentions, the ethical and legal infringements of this activity must be addressed by boards and understood by academic institutions. In particular, an organized MRD effort with faculty involvement could taint the entire academic program. This is not an exaggeration -- one academic institution has already been named in the podiatry litigation."

This guy seems to be into serious hardball.

 

[CaliOpt]

Well I think it's incredibly irresposible of you to throw out SCCO as if you "already knew it was them". First of all that could not be farther from the truth. As a 3rd year student at SCCO we are just as shocked as everyone else about why someone would due this. Secondly, anyone who is a student here (which you are clearly not) knows that our school has a tough enough curriculum and program on our own, that we feel very prepared for the boards and would not stoop to that level. So you should should probably keep false accusations to yourself, because SCCO is much more ethical than that. Got it, good!

I don't need YOUR permission to know what school it is, I already knew it was SCCO to begin with before I even posted anything. I only posted in response to your idiotic plee to keep it a private matter. Sorry to be harsh, but you guys are adults and your or whoever is involved in this all made poor decisions. I'm sick of your high and mighty attitude that you began with in response to JMU's post telling him/her they are only a 2nd year student so they wouldn't understand what's going on? It's a pretty black and white issue , your class was CLEARLY in violation of NBEO regulations as stupid as I think they are. Yeah, maybe you didn't cheat and you keep saying you had no advantage. We get the point, but simple rules that like most middle schoolers would understand were broken. We just want to know about where our scores are. If I am way off base, why don't you clear things up b/c I'm still confused about what is going on and your logic to keep saying we know nothing so we should say nothing further proves what a ***** you are.

 

[Optogal]

take it for what you will, but this may explain somewhat:

http://forum.freeadvice.com/copyrights-trademarks-39/eula-board-exam-need-expert-opinion-515483.html

Interesting. The thread has been deleted. But I've got the text here:

05-05-2010, 07:39 PM
Greenlnn
Junior Member

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1

EULA on Board exam need expert opinion

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

I'm doing some research for some friends of mine who are optometrist graduate students caught in a complicated situation. I can really use some legal opinion on this from the experts.

The situation is this. Last month they took the national optometrist board exam. Prior to the exam, one of their instructor at the school ask the whole class to each remember a different questions on the exam and forward it to him to use to help teach future classes prepare for the exam. After they took the exam, each of them remember 1 question from the exam and they emailed it to the class president. The NBEO (National Board of Examiners in Optometry) somehow found out about the test questions email.

On the Exam they have this exact warning "The National Board examination and all National Board test items are the National Board’s proprietary and confidential property and are protected by copyright laws. Any reproduction or distribution of National Board test items is therefore not permitted and is subject to legal action"

I can understand how they would want to forbid people in reproducing their exam to sell for profits as a legal argument but do they really have legal precedence against forbidding people to writing down what they know from or remember from the test and helping other people or themselves learn in case they fail? What if you take the test and you remember the questions? Are you not allow to remember what you saw and sharing the information? I can understand that these are serious exams and cheating is a highly sensitive subject, but shouldn't the burden be upon them to obviously change the test so that if someone fail that can't just take the same test which they would have studied from?

The closest legal relevance I've found for this is from the Copyrights Act of 1976 where it states "Under section 107, the fair use of a copyrighted work is not copyright infringement, even if such use technically violates section 106. While fair use explicitly applies to use of copyrighted work for criticism, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research purposes, the defense is not limited to these areas." In this case, I think the sharing of questions would fall under the protection of fair use for teaching purposes which should protect them from any copyright infringement.

As of 5/4/2010 the NBEO announced they have delay the release of the test score for another month for on-going investigation in this matter. The NBEO hired a private investigation agency to look into the matter 2 weeks ago. They came to their school to interview the students and from what I heard they were very intimidating. The class president who was responsible for collecting the questions even gave them all the data from her computer to comply with the investigation. She in fact broke down and cried after the interview as if she had done something very wrong. Upon hearing about the delay I know all of the students at the school are very nervous for fear the NBEO may void their score or even worse ban them from being license after 3 years of hard work. They will have to endure another month of this very uneasy feeling and I feel like it's something they don't deserve. They are potentially being brand as cheaters when i feel they have done nothing of the sort.

If anyone have any opinion or advice on this matter please post. I feel like they're going through a very distressful situation and are being intimidated by the board. I also feel like the school should have provided them with legal counsel at the interview and after but they have not.

 

[Optogal]

And the replies:

05-05-2010, 08:31 PM
Stevef
Senior Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: I dunno. What time is it?
Posts: 2,133

There are two issues here. Copyright and contract.

Did the contract specify the board could withhold results for violating their copyright, or for any other reason? If not, the board may be in breach for withholding the grades.

Does "memorizing and reporting" a question and answer fall under fair use?

I can't answer either, but see my quote (below) from Quincy on fair use.

--------------------------------

05-05-2010, 09:03 PM
tranquility
Senior Member

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,381

This question is dealt with in many professional examinations. Look at the Bar. Barbri seems to have many multi-state and essay questions on their preparation course. Legal? I don't really know. But, I do know it happens.

Also, no one has a *right* to practice in a discipline because they know what is needed to know. While I didn't read your entire post, my answer is that they can do what they want. While I'm uncertain if they can go criminal or tort on a violation of what they perceive their rules to be, I am certain they don't have to allow anyone to practice in the covered profession. Even if the criteria is based on non-legal reasons. (Except for illegal, per Constitutions' determination.)

Let's face it, the powers that be may not be able to deny because of violation their rules; yet, they can deny for violation of the law.

 

[Monkey007]

Since all of you all took the boards, what did you use to study for the boards? Did you find it beneficial? I know you haven't gotten your scores back unfortunately because of this scandal, but can you help a first year out?

 

[achirum]

Since all of you all took the boards, what did you use to study for the boards? Did you find it beneficial? I know you haven't gotten your scores back unfortunately because of this scandal, but can you help a first year out?

Geez, you are thinking about boards already. I suppose I'm behind.

 

[KHE]

Since all of you all took the boards, what did you use to study for the boards? Did you find it beneficial? I know you haven't gotten your scores back unfortunately because of this scandal, but can you help a first year out?

Forget about paying all kinds of ridiculous monies for study guides/prep courses etc. etc.

Your best bet (and it's the cheapest) way to prepare for board exams is to simply go to class, study hard, and stay on top of your school work. If you do that, the amount of board preparation necessary will be minimal AND it will be FREE.

 

[AwesomeSauce]

Forget about paying all kinds of ridiculous monies for study guides/prep courses etc. etc.

Your best bet (and it's the cheapest) way to prepare for board exams is to simply go to class, study hard, and stay on top of your school work. If you do that, the amount of board preparation necessary will be minimal AND it will be FREE.

Oh no no no. Pay for the KMK course. best money I have ever spent. They condense 3 years of OD school into an 800 page book and a 4 or 5 day class

 

[KHE]

Oh no no no. Pay for the KMK course. best money I have ever spent. They condense 3 years of OD school into an 800 page book and a 4 or 5 day class

How much do they charge?

And why even bother going to school? Pay your tuition, kick back for 2 years, take the 4 day course and ace the boards! YAY!

 

[optojake]

DEFINITELY get KMK. its not that going to school is worthless and such but KMK has great mnemonics and ways to memorize things that are extremely beneficial. the book alone is $400 and the book/weekend course is $650-ish.

unfortunately i bought the Berkeley guide before i bought KMK so i have both. i know a LOT of people that the Berkeley guide worked for, but for me i had about 2 days and thought it was a COMPLETE waste of time and money... plus i found multiple mistakes in there. (but like i said, it works well for some, just not me).

 

[dilator82]

forget about paying all kinds of ridiculous monies for study guides/prep courses etc. Etc.

Your best bet (and it's the cheapest) way to prepare for board exams is to simply go to class, study hard, and stay on top of your school work. If you do that, the amount of board preparation necessary will be minimal and it will be free.

free??? How about $160,000+?

 

[dilator82]

Since all of you all took the boards, what did you use to study for the boards? Did you find it beneficial? I know you haven't gotten your scores back unfortunately because of this scandal, but can you help a first year out?

Don't they have another thread for this question???

 

[optojake]

free??? How about $160,000+?

$160,000? good to know i wont be the ONLY one in a massive load of debt. what school do you go to?

 

[jn10]

if it was NECO, then their methods could have helped their pass rates:

06 07 08 09
National Boards Pass Rate (All Schools) 90% 93% 94% 91%
NECO National Boards Pass Rate 79% 80% 92% 92%



I recall in 06 how they wanted to really find ways to increase board scores. Maybe cheating was their method?

Hi all,

I'm a 4th yr student at NECO and less than 2 weeks away from grad, I definitely understand why 2011'ers would be angry about this delay in scores. But NECO had always had a "reputation" of having lower scores on boards even though, as far as I can tell, that was based on 2-3 years of lower than national average scores. That reputation stayed with us for longer than necessary. Optometry is a SMALL profession, and now that we've worked hard and actually gotten our boards rates up we have this "cheating" accusation/fiasco to contend with. Well, it's really a crying shame and let me say that as 2010 student there is no way we could have cheated. If you recall, 2010 was the year that NBEO did a total overhaul on their part 1 exam and no one (not even KMK) knew what was important for the boards. I was so proud that we did so well, and I imagine it's because it was more clinical and less minutia ( I have never been good at memorizing Schwartz).

Anyway, I'll consider it a personal attack if you folks want to continue to slander NECO.

 

[jn10]

I don't need YOUR permission to know what school it is, I already knew it was SCCO to begin with before I even posted anything. I only posted in response to your idiotic plee to keep it a private matter. Sorry to be harsh, but you guys are adults and your or whoever is involved in this all made poor decisions. I'm sick of your high and mighty attitude that you began with in response to JMU's post telling him/her they are only a 2nd year student so they wouldn't understand what's going on? It's a pretty black and white issue , your class was CLEARLY in violation of NBEO regulations as stupid as I think they are. Yeah, maybe you didn't cheat and you keep saying you had no advantage. We get the point, but simple rules that like most middle schoolers would understand were broken. We just want to know about where our scores are. If I am way off base, why don't you clear things up b/c I'm still confused about what is going on and your logic to keep saying we know nothing so we should say nothing further proves what a ***** you are.

It's fine to be angry, but I would suggest you at least remain civil. You need to think that on this particular day, you're speaking to a student at a rival school but in a day in the near future, you'll be speaking to a colleague and fellow doctor.

Unfortunately, I didn't get wind of this forum until very recently so I'm unsure what was said on both ends of this conversation - many posts have been deleted I see.

 

[CaliOpt]

Well said. Let's just stick to trying to give optometry a good name.

It's fine to be angry, but I would suggest you at least remain civil. You need to think that on this particular day, you're speaking to a student at a rival school but in a day in the near future, you'll be speaking to a colleague and fellow doctor.

Unfortunately, I didn't get wind of this forum until very recently so I'm unsure what was said on both ends of this conversation - many posts have been deleted I see.

 

[myope]

Unfortunately, I didn't get wind of this forum until very recently so I'm unsure what was said on both ends of this conversation - many posts have been deleted I see.

What was deleted was OptometryStuden, a member of the class involved in reproducing test questions for a faculty member, repeatedly admitting that they had done exactly that but trying to convince us all that they had no idea it was cheating.

 

[iiii]

Any word on NBEO scores being released?

Also, how has NECO disciplined the guilty prof/students?

I'm accepted to NECO & 2 other schools and this kind of controversy is making me cross NECO off my list.

 

[Mixin Marc]

Any word on NBEO scores being released?

Also, how has NECO disciplined the guilty prof/students?

I'm accepted to NECO & 2 other schools and this kind of controversy is making me cross NECO off my list.

You'd be smart to go to a less controversial school. Help yourself first, before you help a school make money.

 

[StankyLeg]

do you guys want some cheese with that whine?

sheesh, it's delayed a month!!! one month, big deal. work around it. life goes on.

all of you are "furious" and "shocked".... these are the wrong words for the situation... these are words you should use when you see the final episode of Lost!

you should be saying "mildly irritated" and "a little surprised". this will all be over soon.

stop complaining about things you can't control, and stop being keyboard warriors. there's nothing you can do about. stop being so uptight, you're just fulfilling the stereotype of optometry students.

love,
the stankyleg 😎

 

[aDubs]

Any word on NBEO scores being released?

Also, how has NECO disciplined the guilty prof/students?

I'm accepted to NECO & 2 other schools and this kind of controversy is making me cross NECO off my list.

First off, NBEO scores are still delayed. For those of you who are whining and complaining about the delay, learn to be more confident in your own intellectual abilities. There is no harm in waiting if you believe that you passed.

Secondly, the investigations are not over, so there is no one who is definitively "guilty". If there has or will be any disciplinary actions, it will be from the NBEO.

 

[optsuker]

I think those students awaiting scores are prefectly justified in being upset. NBEO is one of the major hurdles in becoming an OD, and having the results held in limbo because of a small group cheating (or helping others cheat) IS a big deal.

I also disagree that NBEO should be the only one handing out discipline. NECO has to step up and hold the organizing prof responsible and the students involved need a serious lesson in professional ethics.

It will be a huge black eye for NECO if they don't handle this appropriately.

 

[Optogal]

I think it's legitimate for the uninvolved students to be upset. Until they get their scores, there remains the "possibility" (or as least the worry that) the NBEO will make everyone re-write.

 

[optojake]

i agree. for anyone to say "uninvolved" students shouldn't be concerned is not quite right. it affects everyone who took the test, not just the school under investigation.

and for the people who told us to "calm down", please realize that boards are a very stressful time for those who took it. and for nbeo to tell us to wait until the very last day to find out if we passed or not, and then to go ahead and wait at least 5 more weeks was unfair to everyone involved. it also forced everyone who was travelling on externs to take their study material with them for the chance of failure happening. its not that we're not confident we passed, its that we just do not know technically if we passed. i feel good about it, but until i see the P, there will always be that uncertainty. if you feel 100% confident you passed and aren't worried a bit, then it must be nice, lol.

 

[Meibomian SxN]

http://www.pepperlaw.com/publications_update.aspx?ArticleKey=663


😱😱😱😱

Now that would REALLY bite if ALL the students had to retake Part I!

Oh no no no. Pay for the KMK course. best money I have ever spent. They condense 3 years of OD school into an 800 page book and a 4 or 5 day class

How does KMK know what & how to test if they restructured the NBEO I?

 

[optojake]

How does KMK know what & how to test if they restructured the NBEO I?[/QUOTE]


Not sure, but I took the KMK course and NBEO part 1 and I felt VERY prepared for it due to the course. I also feel good about the test (though I don't know for certain due to obvious reasons) if I passed. Very much worth the money.

 

[DrSpontaneouz83]

What if we're all looking in the wrong direction? Wouldn't it be interesting if it was PR? Well, maybe it wouldn't be that interesting for you. But still, intriguing thought for me. 😛

You really should not be throwing out school names for the hell of it. It's ignorant, rude, and offensive, especially to those that actually work hard and play by the RULES. Yes, IAUPR may not have the best NBEO scores in previous years but at least the school has enough decency and intregirty to not cheat and put other schools in jeopardy of having their scores invalidated. I am pretty confident I am going to pass first go...and it will be through my own hard work and dedication.

As for NECO, it sucks that this happened and I hope things play out in a fair way to EVERYONE. I know it should not have happened, but at least it sets a red flag for other optometry schools to never consider cheating, regardless of the trend in board scores.

 

[Optogal]

So was there a timeframe in which the test candidates would find out the outcome?

Was it a month or something, or an indefinite period of time?

 

[Mewcakes]

You really should not be throwing out school names for the hell of it. It's ignorant, rude, and offensive, especially to those that actually work hard and play by the RULES. Yes, IAUPR may not have the best NBEO scores in previous years but at least the school has enough decency and intregirty to not cheat and put other schools in jeopardy of having their scores invalidated. I am pretty confident I am going to pass first go...and it will be through my own hard work and dedication.

DrS, chill out. I didn't point any fingers. The way the conversation was going, it was clear that it wasn't a true attempt to through PR into the pool of suspects. As one of few PR students who frequent this board, I understand your need to defend the school, but you have got to learn to take a joke. I notice that the majority of your PR-related posts are overprotective in this same manner and you tend to call the poster ignorant. If we're ignorant, then inform us politely, but you need to understand it's not meant to be a personal offense.

 

[DrSpontaneouz83]

Well lets see how you would react if people start bashing SCO? I don't think you would take it as a "joke" either. If my posts are overprotective on here it's because a lot of the comments are over exaggerated...so if we all stick to the facts and not the assumptions, the world would be a happier place.

As far as joking, I do have a great sense of humor, but when someone is making a mockery of students who work hard, regardless of the institution, I don't find it amusing. But I do agree about the educating politely..however, some people need to have a bit more common sense when posing questions or concerns without "offending" the other.

 

[Mewcakes]

Dude. It wasn't a mockery. It was like 10 words. You're blowing this out of proportion. If you have a problem with what I said and would like me to explain it to you, you can pm me.

 

[optojake]

So was there a timeframe in which the test candidates would find out the outcome?

Was it a month or something, or an indefinite period of time?

we took the test March 16th-17th. the original date that would be "the latest" we would know was May 5th. ON May 5th, they said "the earliest" we would know about our scores or the cheating scandal was June 9th.

 

[Optogal]

What happens to the timelines for you guys in terms of booking Part II etc?

Given that you have to pass Part I in order to take Part II, doesn't that put your licensure exams behind schedule?

 

[JMU07]

What happens to the timelines for you guys in terms of booking Part II etc?

Given that you have to pass Part I in order to take Part II, doesn't that put your licensure exams behind schedule?

Well the second administration of Part I is in August so if someone fails they still have another chance to take it.