Need A Reality Check

[NonTraditionalxD]

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This is going to be a long post - my apologies. I have read tons of posts on here and really just need to get some reality before I start down this path.

About 3 months ago I finally came to the realization that what I have wanted has been under my nose my entire life.

I am 25 years old (26 in a few months), married with two children. I work as the Health Information & Credentialing Manager at a LTAC hospital partnered and 49% owned by Cleveland Clinic. I have been enrolled in two online colleges, have 90 credit hours finished, and a combined 90 credits finished. I have 30 credit hours left for my bachelor's, and will graduate with a cumulative GPA of 2.52 from the university. The issue is, 7 years ago when I was 18 I enrolled at local college, went to class for a month, and withdrew to be with a family member. Unfortunately when I pulled this transcript last month, I noticed that these grades were incorrected recorded as Fails and not "withdraws". They state that they do not have a withdraw form on file for me and are only required to keep them 5 years. Seems like I am not going to be able to get them to correct these. Alas, 15 credits of 0.00 GPA. So, all told, my cumulative GPA after graduating with my bachelor's degree will be 2.21.

I am well aware that this GPA is as pathetic as it gets. I am in no way making excuses for myself and I simply did not apply myself for the first 90 credits because I had thought I was never going to use my degree for anything besides a "generic bachelor's degree" until the past few months. So with this, I would have had a 2.52 when I graduated had I also not had 15 credits of "Fail".

I do have a few things going in a positive manner at this point. I have worked at the hospital as Health Information Technician for 1 year, Health Information Supervisor for 1 year, and Health Information & Credentialing Manager for 2 years. I work closely with physicians daily and read/analyze medical records daily. I bill for 4 physicians with my own LLC, working directly with insurance companies to collect for physicians. And yes, I am the person that calls you when you forget to sign your records or dictate that procedure report. Because of this I have formed strong bonds with many physicians and have two physicians in particular who are willing to write me strong letters of recommendation. One is a Medical Director at Cleveland Clinic and the other is a well accomplished physician as well.

My plan, from here, is to take 2 additional years (60 credits) of undergrad credits at my local community college of basic courses to boost my gpa. This should get my GPA from 2.21 to 2.8. Then I plan to do a post-bacc at a 4 year state college locally and get all of my sciences (bio, chem, physics, organic chem). Assuming I am able to pull a near 4.0 during my two years of community college credits and a 3.7 during my post-bacc with the sciences, this should drag me up to a 2.93 cumulative GPA and at least a 3.4 science GPA (I have a couple B/C science for a nutrition class and something like it). All the while I plan to continue to volunteer at places such as Cleveland Clinic Hospice and clock over 400 hours of shadowing the physicians I am close with (I have 76 hours as of the last 3 months).

Because they removed the replacement of DO grades, this is as good as I am going to get. Three additional years of post-bacc work (2 at community college, 1 at 4 year degree for sciences), 2.9-2.93 cGPA and 3.4-3.7 science GPA. Will this, along with my work history, am I realistically going to be able to gain entry to a DO school? I am well aware that I am not MD material and I really do not want to go down the Caribbean MD path.

tl;dr

• 2.9-2.93 cGPA (with a total of 215 undergrad credits, but will be great up-trend at community college & postbacc)
• 3.4-3.7 sGPA
• Strong healthcare related management position with close working relation to 130 physicians
• Two strong letters of recommendation from strong MDs
• I assume I will get the science letters of recommendations during those classes (hopefully)
• Age 28-30 at the time of application.

Will I be able to likely get in to a DO school?

 

[Brorthopedic]

How do you expect a realistic answer without an MCAT score?

 

[NonTraditionalxD]

How do you expect a realistic answer without an MCAT score?

I haven't taken any real bio, chem, or physics. So I have not taken the MCAT yet. I plan to study for the MCAT with a structured study plan for 6 months before taking it. I can not guarantee what I will score - but as I did relatively well with standardized testing in high school I am willing to bet that I will score around the 505-515~ mark.

Is your reply a hint that my MCAT can drag even this situation out of the gutter and into a med school acceptance?

 

[Beezlebub]

I haven't taken any real bio, chem, or physics. So I have not taken the MCAT yet. I plan to study for the MCAT with a structured study plan for 6 months before taking it. I can not guarantee what I will score - but as I did relatively well with standardized testing in high school I am willing to bet that I will score around the 505-515~ mark.

Is your reply a hint that my MCAT can drag even this situation out of the gutter and into a med school acceptance?

no need for hints. MCAT is make it for break it. first pass. aim higher than 515.

 

[NonTraditionalxD]

no need for hints. MCAT is make it for break it. first pass. aim higher than 515.

Thank you for your reply. I guess the hard part is after the next 3 years of post bacc - my success rides on scoring in the 95th percentile of the MCAT. Hard pill to swallow.

 

[Beezlebub]

Thank you for your reply. I guess the hard part is after the next 3 years of post bacc - my success rides on scoring in the 95th percentile of the MCAT. Hard pill to swallow.

shoot for the stars, even if you fall short at least you'll land on the moon, which may be enough- who knows. all the best.

 

[gamieg]

it'll be an uphill battle, but it's not out of reach.

I know these are all hypotheticals at this point, but I recommend committing to that coursework and getting good grades those two years. aim for As, hopefully nothing lower than a B. I think 515+ is certainly helpful, but if you're aiming for DO schools I think 510ish would be fine (especially with two good years of heavy science coursework under your belt). MD will be rough, but there are those that award reinvention, which is essentially what you're trying to do. for MD, higher the MCAT the better.

also don't forget about clinical exposure, volunteering, research if you have time, and letters of recommendation. I'd look into SMPs especially if you're urm. your GPA would be an issue to apply, but there are those that require personal statements and are geared towards tough pasts if that fits you.

but above all, make sure that this is what you really want to do. it's a path that won't be easy and may come with a lot of tough choices, especially as you have a family and another career currently. when you've progressed on your journey a bit, you might receive more concrete helpful feedback here. best of luck with everything.

 

[Ad2b]

2.196 checking in. Yep, I think that's my cGPA and my BCPM is likely 0.0 (all F's or W's... though there might be a D in there somewhere).

Laughing? Please do. Thinking to yourself, "WTH is this person doing on here? with US?" That's fine, it's been said before. In fact it was said to my face for almost 30 years AFTER I got that GPA.

I'm 52, carry a ... ahem... very different GPA now through my pre-reqs+ ... and I have 25+ years of volunteering, leadership, mentoring, blahbalbhalbhablhablh

In that is my point:

1. you need to finish your degree first and let that settle
2. you need to work without school being there - you have a family, focus on that and then take some time
3. then you need to take the pre-reqs and get A's... what does that do? Well, the Bachelor's being closed out has it's own GPA but the post-bacc has it's own little line too... and that 4.0 in post bacc pre-reqs sure looks nice standing all by it's lonesome on the AMCAS app.
4. then you need to take the MCAT and still shoot for 510+ ...

Working with physicians doing their billing is not = to shadowing; you still need to do that and volunteer. Right now, I kind of wonder if you're not seeing the glamour of the physician life and their $$$ and thinking, boy that's gotta be a nice life. (I could well be wrong...it's been known to happen 😉 ) Because I don't see anything about volunteering or shadowing or leadership, I don't "sense" that this is really what you want to do but rather you're seeing the grass greener situation.

About those LOR's... those need to come from science professors and possibly one work related as you're a non-trad. Getting LOR's from people in power really doesn't mean much UNLESS they can accurately assess your ability to succeed IN medical school and pass the USMLE/COMLEX. IF they have not been your professors, they really cannot assess that or give you a strong LOR.

I wish you the best of luck going down this path. It is a roller coaster at times!

 

[Beezlebub]

2.196 checking in. Yep, I think that's my cGPA and my BCPM is likely 0.0 (all F's or W's... though there might be a D in there somewhere).

Laughing? Please do. Thinking to yourself, "WTH is this person doing on here? with US?" That's fine, it's been said before. In fact it was said to my face for almost 30 years AFTER I got that GPA.

I'm 52, carry a ... ahem... very different GPA now through my pre-reqs+ ... and I have 25+ years of volunteering, leadership, mentoring, blahbalbhalbhablhablh

In that is my point:

1. you need to finish your degree first and let that settle
2. you need to work without school being there - you have a family, focus on that and then take some time
3. then you need to take the pre-reqs and get A's... what does that do? Well, the Bachelor's being closed out has it's own GPA but the post-bacc has it's own little line too... and that 4.0 in post bacc pre-reqs sure looks nice standing all by it's lonesome on the AMCAS app.
4. then you need to take the MCAT and still shoot for 510+ ...

Working with physicians doing their billing is not = to shadowing; you still need to do that and volunteer. Right now, I kind of wonder if you're not seeing the glamour of the physician life and their $$$ and thinking, boy that's gotta be a nice life. (I could well be wrong...it's been known to happen 😉 ) Because I don't see anything about volunteering or shadowing or leadership, I don't "sense" that this is really what you want to do but rather you're seeing the grass greener situation.

About those LOR's... those need to come from science professors and possibly one work related as you're a non-trad. Getting LOR's from people in power really doesn't mean much UNLESS they can accurately assess your ability to succeed IN medical school and pass the USMLE/COMLEX. IF they have not been your professors, they really cannot assess that or give you a strong LOR.

I wish you the best of luck going down this path. It is a roller coaster at times!

Google translator?

 

[Ad2b]

Google translator?

WAT?

 

[Beezlebub]

WAT?

nvm. nice blue font

 

[Ad2b]

nvm. nice blue font

Yeah. Black is boring 😉 and I'm a Bolt Fan 4 Life 🙂

 

[Beezlebub]

Yeah. Black is boring 😉 and I'm a Bolt Fan 4 Life 🙂

May I ask who broke your heart?

 

[Ad2b]

Yzerman. He gave #11 to Toronto... can't. even.

 

[NonTraditionalxD]

I guess I left out an important part here. I have been billing for four years (the money would have came up before now). And trust me, it isn't about the money. If it was - I would go to law school 🙂.

My daughter is a very recent t1d and three years old. This has been one of the most frustrating things in my life and caused me to do a lot of medical-type research. Which has driven me to this.

 

[Ad2b]

I guess I left out an important part here. I have been billing for four years (the money would have came up before now). And trust me, it isn't about the money. If it was - I would go to law school 🙂.

My daughter is a very recent t1d and three years old. This has been one of the most frustrating things in my life and caused me to do a lot of medical-type research. Which has driven me to this.

That is personal statement material. Now go do the rest of it: prereqs, MCAT, VOLUNTEERING, shadowing... you need all of that. Sorry to hear your daughter has T1D... on a pump?

Edited: please research the MCAT, pre-reqs, etc. While standardized testing in high school is interesting, it is NOT the MCAT. In terms of difficulty?

LSAT > MCAT > GRE = GMAT

The range you give, 505 - 515, is substantial. At a glance it doesn't look like much but it's like 65th percentile vs. 95th or something...

 

[NonTraditionalxD]

She is on the Animas Ping (which we just found is probably being discontinued). Also on a Dexcom G5 which has helped immensely.

From what I have read, the practice tests you take are a good indication of what you will score on the MCAT itself. I will not take it until I am practice testing over 515. Hopefully that will help.

 

[Ad2b]

She is on the Animas Ping (which we just found is probably being discontinued). Also on a Dexcom G5 which has helped immensely.

From what I have read, the practice tests you take are a good indication of what you will score on the MCAT itself. I will not take it until I am practice testing over 515. Hopefully that will help.

I'm really glad to hear you are finding help for your daughter and that it's working. A friend of mine is on the board for a T1D group in OH and talks about the impact on his life, as well as that of children. Medtronic has a peds pump too, right? Have they talked cell transplants? He went through the whole protocol and decided not to go that route due to the enormous amounts of meds he'd have to take on daily basis. I hope one day researchers figure out a way to cure it; of course, that means marketing $$ need to be acquired to fund the research...

Right now, the practice tests from the AAMC (Scored 1 & 2) are pretty indicative of potential real score. But before any of that, you really need to take the pre-reqs as they are the base of knowledge required for the exam itself. And by that time, indicators and other tests will be out for you to gauge how you're doing.

If this is your path, it won't go anywhere so don't rush and don't think you can't do MD (if that's what you really want).

 

[Ad2b]

For reality check, here's a link to the current MCAT v GPA on AAMC

https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf

 

[NonTraditionalxD]

I appreciate it. I am in no rush - I have concluded that it will be a minimum 3-4 years before I am ready to apply to med school. However - I believe most MD schools cut off well before 3.0. While I would love to get into an MD program - a DO program (in my case) serves just as well and I think may be the only thing within my reach given a successful next few years.

 

[Ad2b]

I'm allo (MD) only.

2.196... keep that in mind; I'm not alone (though my story is very different)

 

[NonTraditionalxD]

For reality check, here's a link to the current MCAT v GPA on AAMC

https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf

That's actually immensely useful and helpful. If I can get to the 510 range - I would be happy to apply broadly with a 20% chance of acceptance.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

That is personal statement material. Now go do the rest of it: prereqs, MCAT, VOLUNTEERING, shadowing... you need all of that. Sorry to hear your daughter has T1D... on a pump?

Edited: please research the MCAT, pre-reqs, etc. While standardized testing in high school is interesting, it is NOT the MCAT. In terms of difficulty?

LSAT > MCAT > GRE = GMAT

The range you give, 505 - 515, is substantial. At a glance it doesn't look like much but it's like 65th percentile vs. 95th or something...

This is bull**** right here. I've taken both the LSAT and the MCAT and can tell you it was definitely easier to get a high score on the LSAT.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

OP, I hate to be the one to say this, but you are talking about being a student that barely got above a 2.0 to getting a 4.0 over 90 units or so to still be below the cutoff for most medical school. It's simply not realistic or responsible.

 

[TXMED_1695]

You made a 2.5 GPA enrolled in online classes? In the majority of online classes, students just google the answer during the exam and get an easy A in the course. Some colleges will not accept online transfers and view them negatively (with good reason). In all my advance science classes the answer format is short answer, essay questions. You have to study your ass off, people study their asses off and get less than a 50% overall in some of the courses. Being a doctor sounds so wonderful until your first Organic Chemistry exam.

With that being said, I believe anything is possible in cases like these, but the road ahead of you will require perfection. I doubt they (Adcoms) would let you get away with a single blemish during your reinvention phase. Also, your MCAT score can erase some damage. There are so many ways in which things could go wrong for you. It's a major life decision to continue down a road you have not had success on. Getting into medical school is just another step too. Search these forums for posts by people that failed out of medical school, or life didn't allow them to finish, but the 300k in debt is still there. Weigh out everything, and then decide. (Haters hate, but it's possible but with a lot of life risk.)

am 25 years old (26 in a few months), married with two children. I work as the Health Information & Credentialing Manager at a LTAC hospital partnered and 49% owned by Cleveland Clinic. I have been enrolled in two online colleges, have 90 credit hours finished, and a combined 90 credits finished. I have 30 credit hours left for my bachelor's, and will graduate with a cumulative GPA of 2.52 from the university.

 

[Ad2b]

This is bull**** right here. I've taken both the LSAT and the MCAT

I have too and it was true for me. The LSAT was FAR harder than the MCAT. (Also taken the GRE and GMAT... so, YMMV but don't need to tell what my experience was - you weren't there).

 

[Ad2b]

OP, I hate to be the one to say this, but you are talking about being a student that barely got above a 2.0 to getting a 4.0 over 90 units or so to still be below the cutoff for most medical school. It's simply not realistic or responsible.

That's utter Bull@#$t, to quote you from above 😉 ...

IF the OP follows what has been suggested which is YEARs after a bachelor's degree, he has a shot but he must get A's and must nail the MCAT.

All one has to do is follow the Below 3.0 thread to see that it happens. Will it be easy? Nope, especially with a family. Will it be fun? Probably not as I don't think the OP really understands but that's his deal. Will he get accepted if he gets straight A's and a 515+ MCAT? Likely, depending on EC's and everything else.

Reality check is one thing, telling someone before they start that they are doomed, when clearly unless there is a felony conviction, or other sort of major issue, he has a chance. Slight as it might be.

 

[bears1992]

You certainly have a long road ahead of you. You're hurdle is going to be getting past the gpa screens. Get both gpas to a 3.0, do a 508+ on the MCAT and I can't imagine a school that valued upward trends and recent coursework wouldn't consider you competitive. Obviously we are talking DO here. For MD, you'd probably need a 515+ MCAT.

Upward trend applicants are hard to "chance" because there isn't any data for recent grade trends of matriculants in either AACOMAS or MSAR. AACOMAS has a postbac gpa section but it doesn't tell you the number of maltriculants who had postbac credits or how many credits it was. The only abstract type of data you can really get is from the underdogs acceptance threads which is basically a thread full of people that got accepted with a low gpa or MCAT. Last time I checked, I only saw 2-3 posts out of 50ish that got in with a sub 3.0. With that being said, the only real advice you can get is from one of the adcoms on this site. Everyone else (including myself) is just guessing. Also, don't give any weight to a premed advisors advice, they have access to the same data everyone else has.

 

[TXMED_1695]

History is a good indicator for the majority of people. Do not say, "likely" (which means, promising) because you do not really know.

He asked for a reality check, and what Albino is pointing out is a very valid point. It is irresponsible to embark on a high stakes mission with a family. Possible, but definitely unlikely in any outcome. 2.0 to a 515 MCAT, he could write a best selling book about it.

barely got above a 2.0 to getting a 4.0 over 90 units or so to still be below the cutoff

That's utter Bull@#$t, to quote you from above 😉 ...

IF the OP follows what has been suggested which is YEARs after a bachelor's degree, he has a shot but he must get A's and must nail the MCAT.

All one has to do is follow the Below 3.0 thread to see that it happens. Will it be easy? Nope, especially with a family. Will it be fun? Probably not as I don't think the OP really understands but that's his deal. Will he get accepted if he gets straight A's and a 515+ MCAT? Likely, depending on EC's and everything else.

Reality check is one thing, telling someone before they start that they are doomed, when clearly unless there is a felony conviction, or other sort of major issue, he has a chance. Slight as it might be.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

That's utter Bull@#$t, to quote you from above 😉 ...

IF the OP follows what has been suggested which is YEARs after a bachelor's degree, he has a shot but he must get A's and must nail the MCAT.

All one has to do is follow the Below 3.0 thread to see that it happens. Will it be easy? Nope, especially with a family. Will it be fun? Probably not as I don't think the OP really understands but that's his deal. Will he get accepted if he gets straight A's and a 515+ MCAT? Likely, depending on EC's and everything else.

Reality check is one thing, telling someone before they start that they are doomed, when clearly unless there is a felony conviction, or other sort of major issue, he has a chance. Slight as it might be.

"look bro, all we have to do is a 90 yard pass, convert it 2 points, then they punt and then we score again and do another 2 point conversion. It's pretty much impossible not to win this."

This is the world you are operating in right now. We are talking about someone that bombed the hell out of undergrad adding financial and time stress to a family with 2 small children for the chance to be below the cutoff for most osteopathic programs in the country to maybe become a doctor from one of say 5-8 institutions that will consider someone that low? I never used the word impossible, but come on. The days of retake are long gone and the game is just getting more and more competitive.

 

[bears1992]

"look bro, all we have to do is a 90 year pass, convert it 2 points, then they punt and then we score again and do another 2 point conversion. It's pretty much impossible not to win this."

This is the world you are operating in right now. We are talking about someone that bombed the hell out of undergrad adding financial and time stress to a family with 2 small children for the chance to be below the cutoff for most osteopathic programs in the country to maybe become a doctor from one of say 5-8 institutions that will consider someone that low? I never used the word impossible, but come on. The days of retake are long gone and the game is just getting more and more competitive.

Hallooooooooooo Caribbean!

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Hallooooooooooo Caribbean!

I hate saying it, but that's pretty much the only real chance to become a doctor. Still, I'd argue it is an irresponsible gamble, especially with a spouse and children. The chances you'll end up in crippling debt without a job are higher than getting a job in the easiest to attain field in medicine.

 

[Gfliptastic]

Hallooooooooooo Caribbean!

I'm perplexed why even that? What is the reason to be a physician specifically? How about mid-level stuff? Hell by the way things are going, there will eventually be some form of independent practice from mid-levels in places of need.

When figuratively talking about "up creeks w/o paddles", you are probably hardly on a functioning raft at this point. So why physician? What about PA? The "sliding scale" you might hear about w/ MCAT vs. GPA scarcely applies here. I don't even know what the new scaling is, but you are looking at someone who had a 3.2, 92nd percentile and barely got sniffs when I applied broadly for medical school. And, I usually add, being a doctor is hardly what it cracks up to be, and will likely only get worse w/ the documentation-machine chugging along in the current medical practice, not to mention the damn law schools keep throwing more lawyers out there. (Did you know you can be sued for bleeding when you put someone who needs anticoagulation meds on those meds?)

Online schooling won't cut it. Past indiscretions and/or issues won't cut it (I had them too when my dad died when I was in undergrad). A massive MCAT score gives you an sliver of a barely perceptible chance. Because, if you were unaware, screening applications is done electronically. (It's sweet of you or anyone to think that some person actually goes through each applications one by one). If that software is set to 3.0 as a screen, you are out. Regardless of if you have a perfect 99th-tile and cured cancer in your free time.

 

[3ip4]

That's actually immensely useful and helpful. If I can get to the 510 range - I would be happy to apply broadly with a 20% chance of acceptance.

On this, this is acceptances to any medical school over the number of people who applied, correct? Not acceptances over applications (i.e. multiple from the same people).

Can anyone explain why the bands in the top score areas are so low? 90% acceptance for the top GPA and MCAT bracket is low IMO (not that I would fall in that category). Is this largely due to some combination of lack of social skills, weaker science GPA, or some other glaring issue with the application? To me, this is just alarming when I'm considering doing a Post Bacc into med school. Provided a strong sGPA and MCAT, I would bring my overall GPA into a 50%-65% acceptance range on the chart which is beyond disconcerting. Granted, I'd be looking at a formal Post Bacc, so I suppose using their admission data would be more relevant provided that works out... I'm just trying to better understand what these numbers really mean.

Don't get me wrong - I understand Med School admissions are competitive, but there is something odd about the higher ranges being as low as they are IMO. For the purpose of my point, maybe it's better to focus on the 1/5 applicants with a 3.8+ and 514-517 or the 1/4 with a 3.8+ and 510-513 that do not get in.

 

[bears1992]

On this, this is acceptances to any medical school over the number of people who applied, correct? Not acceptances over applications (i.e. multiple from the same people).

Can anyone explain why the bands in the top score areas are so low? 90% acceptance for the top GPA and MCAT bracket is low IMO (not that I would fall in that category). Is this largely due to some combination of lack of social skills, weaker science GPA, or some other glaring issue with the application? To me, this is just alarming when I'm considering doing a Post Bacc into med school. Provided a strong sGPA and MCAT, I would bring my overall GPA into a 50%-65% acceptance range on the chart which is beyond disconcerting. Granted, I'd be looking at a formal Post Bacc, so I suppose using their admission data would be more relevant provided that works out... I'm just trying to better understand what these numbers really mean.

Don't get me wrong - I understand Med School admissions are competitive, but there is something odd about the higher ranges being as low as they are IMO. For the purpose of my point, maybe it's better to focus on the 1/5 applicants with a 3.8+ and 514-517 or the 1/4 with a 3.8+ and 510-513 that do not get in.

Yes that chart is per applicant not per application. That 90% yield for the high gpa/ high MCAT applicants is probably because 10% of those students with those stats either:
1) Only applied to a few schools (less than 5)
2) Didn't have any volunteering/shadowing
3) Had a bad LOR
4) Sounded like a douche in his essays
5) Had a felony/drug crime
6) Acted like a weirdo during his/her interview

The average applicant applies to 14 schools so consider that chart your odds of an acceptance with 14 applications to MD schools. That chart does not include DO schools.

 

[3ip4]

Yes that chart is per applicant not per application. That 90% yield for the high gpa/ high MCAT applicants is probably because 10% of those students with those stats either:
1) Only applied to a few schools (less than 5)
2) Didn't have any volunteering/shadowing
3) Had a bad LOR
4) Sounded like a douche in his essays
5) Had a felony/drug crime
6) Acted like a weirdo during his/her interview

The average applicant applies to 14 schools so consider that chart your odds of an acceptance with 14 applications to MD schools. That chart does not include DO schools.

Alright - thank you. I appreciate that insight. I suspect a good number fall into #1. I was more concerned with the range I would likely fall into being only 50-65%, but I suppose the numbers specific to a formal post bacc (pending I go that route) are probably of more use. I'm just in the process of considering the change and am reaching out to try to do some volunteering and shadowing if possible to see if I want to make the jump.

 

[Ad2b]

Albino is pointing out is a very valid point.

No, he told me I was full of bull@#$t and I take offense at that because I'm surely not.

Again, one only needs to go to the Under 3.0 thread and see that it IS possible but it takes at tremendous amount of work, AND time.

I'm also representative of the 3.0 and under group; 2.196 from 1986... near 4.0 now... 10,000 hour volunteering, cleft palate surgery board membership, leadership due to jobs, etc etc etc.

It was irresponsible and frankly too old-school SDNish of Albino to say what he said and to frame it in the manner he did. The OP is not doomed forever, he's doomed now because he doesn't listen and thinks because he knows people.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

No, he told me I was full of bull@#$t and I take offense at that because I'm surely not.

Again, one only needs to go to the Under 3.0 thread and see that it IS possible but it takes at tremendous amount of work, AND time.

I'm also representative of the 3.0 and under group; 2.196 from 1986... near 4.0 now... 10,000 hour volunteering, cleft palate surgery board membership, leadership due to jobs, etc etc etc.

It was irresponsible and frankly too old-school SDNish of Albino to say what he said and to frame it in the manner he did. The OP is not doomed forever, he's doomed now because he doesn't listen and thinks because he knows people.

No, I said that saying the LSAT is harder is bull**** and I stand by it. That's different than saying you're full of bull**** which implies commentary outside of LSAT vs MCAT.

For the LSAT you need to take a total of zero classes too prep. You need to memorize a total of zero material, and your score is more predictive of how many problems you do. On the MCAT you take several semesters of perquisites, memorize a lot of material and you are treated on both recall and logical thinking.

As for your story, I'm glad for you, but your story is not OP. He or she at best will still be below the cut off for most schools. It's a dangerous gamble and one where the odds are against someone with a spouse and kids that just finished an online degree with barely a 2.0. I understand you're talking this personally, but it's not about you or your situation. It's about OP.

Trying to give someone blind hope over a miniscule chance is irresponsible. It's like having a stage 4 patient with a 1% chance of 5 year survival and not advising that they should make a will.

 

[Beezlebub]

No, I said that saying the LSAT is harder is bull**** and I stand by it. That's different than saying you're full of bull**** which implies commentary outside of LSAT vs MCAT.

For the LSAT you need to take a total of zero classes too prep. You need to memorize a total of zero material, and your score is more predictive of how many problems you do. On the MCAT you take several semesters of perquisites, memorize a lot of material and you are treated on both recall and logical thinking.

As for your story, I'm glad for you, but your story is not OP. He or she at best will still be below the cut off for most schools. It's a dangerous gamble and one where the odds are against someone with a spouse and kids that just finished an online degree with barely a 2.0. I understand you're talking this personally, but it's not about you or your situation. It's about OP.

Trying to give someone blind hope over a miniscule chance is irresponsible. It's like having a stage 4 patient with a 1% chance of 5 year survival and not advising that they should make a will.

I like this real. Hope to see you on the wards someday.

 

[McRibs]

Yeah. Black is boring 😉 and I'm a Bolt Fan 4 Life 🙂

You are absolutely murdering the eyeballs of dark theme users.

 

[NonTraditionalxD]

I think it is important for you guys to know that from 2010 (high school graduation) to 2016 (when my grandfather passed) I was the sole caregiver for him. I spent my time working full time, taking care of my grandpa, and doing classwork for an hour a week if I had time (sometimes skipping assignments due to work or caring for him). My GPA is not reflective of my cognitive ability or motivation.

I will put in as many credit hours as I need to get above a 3.0. On the way I plan to grab my EMT-B (this month, 2 month course at local community college), my RN (2 year course at my local community college) and then proceed to my Post-BACC. This way, if after a few years of applying to medical school I am unsuccessful I can fall back to RN and eventually NP. Because of the feedback I have received from this thread I have discussed this at length with my wife. She is refusing to allow me to not follow my dream here and will accept nothing less than me spending the next 3-4 years in school and eventually applying to medical school. For 3 of the next 4 years I will continue to build ECs, work full time at the hospital, and form things that are valuable on my application. I will take the year that I do my hard sciences at my local 4 year state university off from work.

Although I am well aware that I have a very difficult uphill battle - I truly believe that with 3 years of a solid uptrend and a solid performance in my post-bacc sciences if I get above a 3.01 and get to a few interviews I will have a compelling argument for my entry into medical school. I appreciate everyone's time in replying and I look forward to future replies, but please do not base your decision on the assumption that my grades suffered because I was not able to complete the work. I had straight A's all through high school, took many advanced level biology and chemistry courses, and was successful in them. I understand that the ones I take in 3 or so years will be much more difficult - but I am able now to dedicate the time needed to studying.

Thank you all!

 

[NonTraditionalxD]

Well guys, I got GREAT news today. The school that I had 15 credits of 0 GPA has reversed my grades to withdraws so that they will have no negative effect on my GPA. This will put my cGPA at 2.52 after my Bachelor's degree. With another 30 credit hours at my community college and then a 30 credit post-bacc for my sciences I will have above a 3.0 GPA.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Well guys, I got GREAT news today. The school that I had 15 credits of 0 GPA has reversed my grades to withdraws so that they will have no negative effect on my GPA. This will put my cGPA at 2.52 after my Bachelor's degree. With another 30 credit hours at my community college and then a 30 credit post-bacc for my sciences I will have above a 3.0 GPA.

Now it seems more plausible to do, but definitely recommend against getting an RN. There's nothing worse than seeing an application from someone that took a seat from someone that would be an RN because they wanted a backup.

 

[pseud0]

This is bull**** right here. I've taken both the LSAT and the MCAT and can tell you it was definitely easier to get a high score on the LSAT.

Yeah, no doubt.

The LSAT is pure reasoning based and requires no prior knowledge. It is under 3 hours long.

MCAT is evidence/reasoning based and requires an absolute mountain of prior knowledge. It iss 6 hours and 15 minutes long.

Which is harder?


To OP:

Its impossible to say anything without an MCAT, and updated science GPA from the prereqs you said you dont have.

Your gpa is very low. I would never risk wasting 2 years of my life in post bacc without a guarantee of even getting all 4.0 grades. I'd recommend another path.

 

[NonTraditionalxD]

Yeah, no doubt.

The LSAT is pure reasoning based and requires no prior knowledge. It is under 3 hours long.

MCAT is evidence/reasoning based and requires an absolute mountain of prior knowledge. It iss 6 hours and 15 minutes long.

Which is harder?


To OP:

Its impossible to say anything without an MCAT, and updated science GPA from the prereqs you said you dont have.

Your gpa is very low. I would never risk wasting 2 years of my life in post bacc without a guarantee of even getting all 4.0 grades. I'd recommend another path.

I appreciate your view and reply. However, I have decided that I am going to do whatever it takes to accomplish my goal here. I have a number of physicians I am close with and one of which has offered to mentor me through the next two to three years of my pre-med journey. I believe that with enough hard work I will be able to accomplish my goals and find myself in a DO school happily. While there are other ways I can become involved in healthcare, I believe this is the one for me. Thank you again for all of your replies thus far.

 

[KnowledgeBot4000]

Here's the reality: Almost everything you could imagine with regards to medicine is "possible." If you would have come here stating "I have a 2.0 GPA. Is it possible for me to get a MD at a top 10 school and match into a highly competitive residency?" then the answer should still be "yes." But, it's also extremely unlikely. Maybe you'd need to get a 4.0 for 2-3 years of full time science coursework, score in the top 0.1% of MCAT, as well as some killer research and volunteer. But, it's possible. More impressive and amazing things have been done in the past and will be done in the future than a student with a 2.0 GPA getting into Stanford/UCSF/etc. My guess is you'd agree with this.

So now the discussion becomes "How likely and realistic is getting into a DO school with a 2.5 GPA?" and this is where some posters above are disagreeing. If I were you, I'd be aware of and ask myself the following questions:

#1) The line keeps moving for what it takes to get into medical school. I did a post-bacc that was a joke (nearly everyone got A's in the majority of courses) and I imagine medical schools are catching on to this if they haven't already. If I were an adcom, I'd be extremely unimpressed with someone who took 1-2 classes a semester and got straight A's at a community college/post-bacc program after starting with a 2.5 GPA. In my medical school classes, the students who did well in tough undergrad universities on their first shot are the students who are currently doing the best. When schools keep getting more and more competitive (and in the case of DO just changing the rules to getting in with their grade replacement policy), I'd be worried leisurely taking a few courses at a community college just won't be good enough when I want to apply in 3-5 years, especially if DO schools are trying to emulate MD schools.

#2) Medical school is known for being so grueling that many people have horrible sleep schedules, don't exercise, and don't eat healthy. Depression is common. These are students who are absolutely busting their ass and still struggling, despite the fact they have always done well and don't have kids. What makes you think your situation will be different? If I were you, I'd be worried about this.

#3) How smart are you and more specifically how good of a test taker are you? I get it, everyone thinks they're really smart if they're pursuing being a physician. But look at your history. What was your SAT score? Were you towards the top of your high school class? You're going to be competing against students who've killed the SATs and their undergrad classes, and just like you, they probably weren't giving nearly their full effort and are all well aware they'll have to turn it up several notches when a MD/DO and $300k in debt is on the line. There are lots of people who work their asses off and just aren't capable of cracking 25, much less 30 (old scale) on the MCAT. Or they get into school and fail boards. Or they pass boards, but are constantly struggling in clinic and can't match where they want and feel like this whole process wasn't worth it. And it's really hard to predict success on these things before investing a lot of time and money unless you have a long history of solid performance.

I hope that helps, and I'm really not trying to encourage or discourage you in any way. There's no way anyone but you and the people who know you really well can help you make an informed decision. But I think the above questions are where I'd start if I were trying to figure out if I wanted to aggressively pursue this (just taking a class or two to get your feet wet is fine and probably what I'd do if I were you, since it's so low risk).

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Here's the reality: Almost everything you could imagine with regards to medicine is "possible." If you would have come here stating "I have a 2.0 GPA. Is it possible for me to get a MD at a top 10 school and match into a highly competitive residency?" then the answer should still be "yes." But, it's also extremely unlikely. Maybe you'd need to get a 4.0 for 2-3 years of full time science coursework, score in the top 0.1% of MCAT, as well as some killer research and volunteer. But, it's possible. More impressive and amazing things have been done in the past and will be done in the future than a student with a 2.0 GPA getting into Stanford/UCSF/etc. My guess is you'd agree with this.

So now the discussion becomes "How likely and realistic is getting into a DO school with a 2.5 GPA?" and this is where some posters above are disagreeing. If I were you, I'd be aware of and ask myself the following questions:

#1) The line keeps moving for what it takes to get into medical school. I did a post-bacc that was a joke (nearly everyone got A's in the majority of courses) and I imagine medical schools are catching on to this if they haven't already. If I were an adcom, I'd be extremely unimpressed with someone who took 1-2 classes a semester and got straight A's at a community college/post-bacc program after starting with a 2.5 GPA. In my medical school classes, the students who did well in tough undergrad universities on their first shot are the students who are currently doing the best. When schools keep getting more and more competitive (and in the case of DO just changing the rules to getting in with their grade replacement policy), I'd be worried leisurely taking a few courses at a community college just won't be good enough when I want to apply in 3-5 years, especially if DO schools are trying to emulate MD schools.

#2) Medical school is known for being so grueling that many people have horrible sleep schedules, don't exercise, and don't eat healthy. Depression is common. These are students who are absolutely busting their ass and still struggling, despite the fact they have always done well and don't have kids. What makes you think your situation will be different? If I were you, I'd be worried about this.

#3) How smart are you and more specifically how good of a test taker are you? I get it, everyone thinks they're really smart if they're pursuing being a physician. But look at your history. What was your SAT score? Were you towards the top of your high school class? You're going to be competing against students who've killed the SATs and their undergrad classes, and just like you, they probably weren't giving nearly their full effort and are all well aware they'll have to turn it up several notches when a MD/DO and $300k in debt is on the line. There are lots of people who work their asses off and just aren't capable of cracking 25, much less 30 (old scale) on the MCAT. Or they get into school and fail boards. Or they pass boards, but are constantly struggling in clinic and can't match where they want and feel like this whole process wasn't worth it. And it's really hard to predict success on these things before investing a lot of time and money unless you have a long history of solid performance.

I hope that helps, and I'm really not trying to encourage or discourage you in any way. There's no way anyone but you and the people who know you really well can help you make an informed decision. But I think the above questions are where I'd start if I were trying to figure out if I wanted to aggressively pursue this (just taking a class or two to get your feet wet is fine and probably what I'd do if I were you, since it's so low risk).

This is one of the best posts I've read in a while, but I don't think OP is going to listen. Unfortunately, it takes being in this journey and even being in medical school to realize what you've gotten yourself into. Being a doctor sounds glamorous and the money a great way to have comfortable life. I also had a low GPA and contemplated med school around 26. Fast forward and it took a total of 4 years to get in where there were many struggles and then medical has been a unique challenge 3 years into the journey. There's still many years to come and that money is nowhere to be seen and it's been several years without hanging out with friends or true free time and several more to come that way. I can't imagine what it must be like to have small children and then miss their childhood and wake up to them being teenagers while you're still in massive debt and just barely starting to make real money.

OP, because you're hard headed, you are not going to do the right thing. Trust me, I'm not blaming you because I'm similar in that regard, but I do strongly recommend you put yourself clear limits to your journey. For example, if you get under 3.5 any semester, you automatically pull the plug. None of this BS where you'll rationalize and say "well, just add 2 more semesters to make up for it!" Unfortunately, you'll have to see this one the hard way. I still think the safest thing would be 1 year RN + FNP, but I know you'll disregard that.